Marina, the Commission, and Mexico City

[George Sawtelle]

Thomas

You seem to know about mole hunts in MC by the CIA. You shouldn´t have any problems answering the following questions;

1. How did the impersonation of Oswald start a mole hunt?

2. What was the first step by the CIA in it´s pursuit of a mole?

3. What is the name of the mole?

4. How did the hunt for the mole effect the JFK assassination assuming it did?

5. Who was in charge of the mole hunt?

 

[George Sawtelle]

Paul T

Was the mafia involved in the radical right plot to kill Kennedy? Please explain.

[Paul Trejo]

1 hour ago, George Sawtelle said:

Paul T

Was the mafia involved in the radical right plot to kill Kennedy? Please explain.

George,

In my CT, the Mafia was certainly involved in the Radical Right plot to kill JFK.  Here's my explanation:

1.  Carlos Marcello, Mafia boss of New Orleans, would donate enormous amounts of money to anybody who offered to kill JFK and/or RFK.

2.  Carlos Marcello did not hire Mafia hit men to do this.  Mafia hit men do not enter US politics.  Marcello hired American mercenaries -- usually former US military men who were down on their luck and needed the money -- mercenaries like Gerry Patrick Hemming, Loran Hall, Frank Sturgis -- guys like that, who also had ideological motives.

3.  Gerry Patrick Hemming admitted that he was often offered lots of money to whack JFK.

4.   Other Mafia men, like Santos Trafficante (Miami) and Sam Giancana (Chicago), were involved in CIA plots to kill Fidel Castro.  Sam's boy, Johnny Roselli got involved too, and he let this go to his head.

5.  These Mafia bosses contributed enormous amounts of money to American mercenaries to help them topple Fidel Castro.   Lots of that money went to Frank Sturgis, Johnny Martino, Garry Patrick Hemming, Loran Hall, Interpen, La Sambra and many other Cuba Raid groups.

6.  The Mafia donated money -- perhaps millions -- supporting these Cuba Raid organizations to kill Fidel Castro.

7.  It was one of these Cuba Raid groups that went rogue -- and went over to kill JFK.  We know some of them, because they confessed.  They seduced two CIA men to go rogue with them (namely, David Morales and Howard Hunt).

8.  The Cuba Raid group that went rogue consisted mainly of Interpen guys -- Gerry Patrick Hemming, Loran Hall, Larry Howard, plus Frank Sturgis and others.

9.  Carlos Marcello was the Mafia guy most interested in killing JFK.  He would have donated millions all by himself.  He hated JFK and RFK with a passion.

10.  Carlos Marcello, however, would never have used Mafia hit-men for this.  It wasn't done.

11. Carlos Marcello used his money to support Guy Banister and David Ferrie in New Orleans.   We know this as a historical fact.   We have the records.

12.  It was Guy Banister and David Ferrie who diverted the Cuba Raid mercenaries to kill JFK.  Banister coordinated this with General Walker in Dallas, who had his own group of mercenaries there, called, "Minutemen."   They almost certainly got some of the money from Guy Banister.

That's the extent of the Mafia involvement in the JFK murder, in my CT, George.

Again -- those CTers who want to say that the Mafia-did-it will name some of the people I have named here.   Also, those  CTers who want to say that CIA-did-it will name some of the people I have named here.

In my CT, however, neither the Mafia nor the CIA did it -- although they did contribute rogue players.   The Radical Right did it.  Civilians.  Not Government agencies.  I extol highly the recent book by Dr. Jeffrey Caufield, namely, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: the Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015).

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited March 10, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[George Sawtelle]

Paul T

Is there any truth to the rumor that the Boston godfather was asked if he wanted to participate in the assassination of JFK?

Apparently a CIA agent met with the Boston mafia head honcho to gage his interest in killing Kennedy. The Boston don said he had no interest in killing Kennedy.

Edited March 10, 2017 by George Sawtelle

[Paul Brancato]

Paul - Your argument is semantics, and you use semantics to evade the central point. They are meaningless distinctions. Sturgis worked for the CIA for years. Who cares if he is an 'agent 

[Paul Trejo]

5 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

Paul T

Is there any truth to the rumor that the Boston godfather was asked if he wanted to participate in the assassination of JFK?

Apparently a CIA agent met with the Boston mafia head honcho to gage his interest in killing Kennedy. The Boston don said he had no interest in killing Kennedy.

George,

I feel confident that there were hundreds -- if not thousands -- of people who contributed money to Radical Right civilians (mercenaries) who offered to kill JFK.

This is exactly why Gerry Patrick Hemming told us -- right here in this FORUM when he was a member in the early 21st century -- that the main reason that he never told the Truth about the JFK assassination, was that so many people had contributed so much money -- AND EVERY ONE OF THEM BELIEVED THAT THEIR MONEY WENT TO THE REAL JFK KILLERS.

In fact, said Hemming, almost all of that money went to big-talking swindlers, who had nothing to do with the JFK shooting.

HOWEVER -- said Hemming -- those swindlers, simply because they were swindlers -- would then go back to their donors and try to BLACKMAIL them.  They would say, "You better give me more money, or I'll tell the world that you hired the guys who killed JFK!"

At that point -- said Hemming -- the rich donor would then call a Mafia hit-man to rub out the blackmailer.

According to Gerry Patrick Hemming (who confessed to A.J. Weberman of his little role in Miami supporting the JFK assassination) there were countless cases of Mafia hit-men hired to rub out blackmailers who were going to blab everything they knew about the JFK assassination.

That is why -- said Hemming -- he could never start telling the truth, because too many hundreds of people who BELIEVED FALSELY that they donated money to the real JFK Killers, would get paranoid, and hire hit-men to rub out Hemming!

So, George, I am very confident that the Boston Mafia leaders were also involved in giving money to (1) Kill Fidel Castro; and (2) Kill JFK.  But most of them gave their money to swindlers.   Possibly millions were involved.

The real killers of JFK were mostly unveiled by Jim Garrison -- who gave us the Ground Crew there in New Orleans.  They were all guilty.  But Jim Garrison failed to give us the Ground Crew in Dallas.

That is the great achievement of Jeff Caufield, in his recent book, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: the Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015).  Although it is 900 pages long, it costs less than $30 the last time I checked on amazon.com.   I hope you will get a copy one day.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited March 10, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[George Sawtelle]

Paul T

You swindle the mafia and you´re dead. Forget about blackmail.

Okay so the radical right killed Kennedy. What next?

This is where you are wrong about the radical right killing Kennedy. There is no what next with the radical right. They don´t have the influence or the power to invade Cuba or nuke Russia.

And that is the reason for the MC affair. Set up Oswald as the assassin and take out Cuba/Russia.

And failing to take out Cuba and Russia what next for the radical right? Why would the  military, FBI, CIA and all government agencies tasked with security of the president cover up the deed of the radical right when they could have easily let them hang? They already had what they wanted, a coup.

[Bill Simpich]

I'm the kind of guy who loves researchers but hates arguing about who's right and who's wrong.   I'm a lawyer that hates lawyers.

With that said, Paul, I appreciate the kind things you've said about me, but leave me some wiggle room.  And yourself too.

When I wrote State Secret, the center of the story was my belief that Oswald was impersonated in Mexico City.  At least on the telephone.

And when I got into the whodunit question...which I did very gingerly...I offered my thinking as a hypothesis.  A hypothesis.

Not faith.

I was not saying that I thought the higher-ups in the CIA were innocent - or in the other intelligence agencies either.

I was saying that the killing of JFK could have been a revolt from within the middle-level of the Agency, not the tippy-top.

But it might have been from the tippy-top - like Angleton.  Or Angleton might have been caught with his shorts down - Kim Philby showed it could be done to him.

Someone framed Oswald, I'm convinced of that.

You think the radical right did the whole thing.  Walker and friends could have been in on it. 

But who manipulated the entire autopsy?  I don't see how the radical right could have controlled that.

All I'm saying is be a little more flexible.  Listen to everyone a little harder. 

 

[Michael Walton]

All I'm saying is be a little more flexible.  Listen to everyone a little harder. 

This is great Bill.  Thanks for posting this and I agree with you 100%.

[Paul Brancato]

Thank you Bill for chiming in with such good sense. 

[Paul Trejo]

11 hours ago, Bill Simpich said:

I'm the kind of guy who loves researchers but hates arguing about who's right and who's wrong.   I'm a lawyer that hates lawyers.

With that said, Paul, I appreciate the kind things you've said about me, but leave me some wiggle room.  And yourself too.

When I wrote State Secret, the center of the story was my belief that Oswald was impersonated in Mexico City.  At least on the telephone.

And when I got into the whodunit question...which I did very gingerly...I offered my thinking as a hypothesis.  A hypothesis.

Not faith.

I was not saying that I thought the higher-ups in the CIA were innocent - or in the other intelligence agencies either.

I was saying that the killing of JFK could have been a revolt from within the middle-level of the Agency, not the tippy-top.

But it might have been from the tippy-top - like Angleton.  Or Angleton might have been caught with his shorts down - Kim Philby showed it could be done to him.

Someone framed Oswald, I'm convinced of that.

You think the radical right did the whole thing.  Walker and friends could have been in on it. 

But who manipulated the entire autopsy?  I don't see how the radical right could have controlled that.

All I'm saying is be a little more flexible.  Listen to everyone a little harder. 

Bill,

It's indeed a delight to hear from you again after three years.   I realize there are nuances of agreement between our opinions -- and I'm very glad you highlighted some of them today.

You agree, for example, that you originally broached the possibility that the "tippy top" of the CIA" may have been innocent of any JFK plot.

That is all I really need to pursue my theory.  I realize that some middle-level CIA guys were involved, since they confessed -- I speak of David Morales and E. Howard Hunt.  This is now a matter a history, IMHO.

I realize too, Bill, that you are not willing to draw a hard and fast conclusion yet -- because as a lawyer you realize there is always room for debate and litigation.

I agree with that, too -- and yet I myself am attempting to draw a CT from the available data, and the Mexico City episode is only about 2% of the available data.  I am not interested in making a career out of the Mexico City episode -- I only want to ensure that I'm using the latest and greatest evidence in my CT.   

IMHO, the two indispensable 21st century documents for understanding LHO in Mexico City are: (1) The Hardway-Lopez Report; and (2) State Secret: Wiretapping in Mexico City.

I am willing to hear people challenge my reading of these two books -- but I am less patient with people who have never studied them, and continue to pontificate about what somebody in the 20th century said.

It may not seem clear to all my detractors, Bill, but I do have an open mind.  Yet I also maintain standards of documentary evidence.  The 20th century CTers are too old-fashioned for me.   That said, I still value Joachim Joesten, Jim Garrison, David Lifton, Dick Russell, Larry Hancock and a few great JFK researchers from the 20th century.

Which brings me to the autopsy.  As I have tried to explain to the brilliant David Lifton -- I agree the autopsy was tampered -- but I also maintain that the tampering was sloppy and not well-planed as he suggests.  Instead, IMHO, the JFK autopsy was a rushed job -- ordered after 3PM CST, when Hoover proposed the "Lone Nut" theory to LBJ, and LBJ accepted it, and it became State Dogma.

As a Presidential mandate after-the-fact, the JFK autopsy was a rushed job, tampered and botched and finally hidden.  I think the evidence bears me out.

Very best regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited March 11, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[George Sawtelle]

Paul T

¨The Last Investigation¨ pg 390, Morales is quoted as saying ... ¨Well, we took care of that son of a bitch; didn´t we?¨ Morales said ¨we¨ not ¨I¨.

Also, Hunt said he was a ¨bench warmer¨ for the big event. That means he sat on the sidelines and didn´t participate.

Unless you have recent quotes that are different from the ones above I don´t see where Hunt and Morales said they killed Kennedy. Morales saying ¨we¨ could mean that his associates killed Kennedy and by association with his friends he says he did too.

[George Sawtelle]

Paul T

If the radical right killed Kennedy what is the CIA worried about with regard to holding back it´s files on the JFK assassination. I mean they didn´t do JFK, the radical right did, so why worry about what may be in their files. Why does the CIA continue to protect the radical right when all their leaders are probably dead (H.L. Hunt, Murchison, General Walker, the radical CIA agents like Philips, etc.). The leaders of the radical right have no legacy to protect or do they. 

Please address the above and then I´m done questioning you on the radical right.

[Paul Brancato]

George - I asked that question many times on many threads. If he doesn't chime in soon I'll tell you what he said. 

[Michael Clark]

10 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

Paul T

If the radical right killed Kennedy what is the CIA worried about with regard to holding back it´s files on the JFK assassination. I mean they didn´t do JFK, the radical right did, so why worry about what may be in their files. Why does the CIA continue to protect the radical right when all their leaders are probably dead (H.L. Hunt, Murchison, General Walker, the radical CIA agents like Philips, etc.). The leaders of the radical right have no legacy to protect or do they. 

Please address the above and then I´m done questioning you on the radical right.

Here is an Edwin Walker thread. I am linking it to the page in the thread where Paul T begins posting. It is a Good thread because there is a lot of anlysis on Paul Trejo's posts; including posts from Robert Charles Dunne.

 

Edited March 12, 2017 by Michael Clark