James DiEugenio

Marina, the Commission, and Mexico City

359 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

David 

I agree. Oswald never made it to MC. 

After the assassination when Hoover decided not to be a team player the CIA had to fake Oswald in MC or the lone nut theory could not be justified. 

I believe the military was running an Operation Northwoods caper with Oswald to set up Castro and the Soviet Union as the perpetrators of the assassination. They had decided they could get to Castro by killing Kennedy and blaming Castro. When Hoover blew the whistle on the impersonation the CIA stepped in and faked evidence to place Lee Harvey Oswald in MC.

Mystery man is an attempt by Philips to distance himself from Oswald. Mystery man is not part of the military caper. 

George,

I can meet you half-way on some of your points here.

1. It wasn't the military that was plotting to kill JFK and blame LHO -- it was a paramilitary plot led by former military General Edwin Walker.

2. I agree emphatically that the core of the plot was to blame the USSR and Fidel Castro -- the Reds -- for the JFK murder.

3.  Hoover was never clear about the Impersonation of LHO in Mexico City.  He asked -- was LHO in MC or was he Impersonated?   Choose one!

3.1.  However, the real answer was BOTH.   LHO was not alone in MC.  That is part of Hoover's "Lone Nut" mythology.

4.  LHO was in MC at the bequest of Guy Banister.  This is clear because the Lopez Report shows the actual resumé that LHO brought to MC

4.1. LHO made that resumé with help from Banister's team at 544 Camp Street.  LHO also provided his photos and signature.

5.  But LHO was not alone in MC.  Most likely Loran Hall and Larry Howard drove him there.   Also, others met them in MC -- very likely David Morales.

6.  According to Bill Simpich (2014) it is most likely that David Morales impersonated LHO in MC over the wiretapped telephone at the Cuban Consulate, calling the USSR Embassy.

7.  Bill Simpich (2014) fully explains Mystery Man -- he was a random photo inserted into LHO's 201 file in service of the CIA Mole Hunt, set to catch the impersonator.

8.  LHO's middle name was also changed to HENRY in his 201 file, in order to catch the Mole.   They never caught the mole.   But Bill Simpich (2014) did.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

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Agree completely Mr. B!

and then there's Mr. T

{sigh}

1. It wasn't the military that was plotting to kill JFK and blame LHO -- it was a paramilitary plot led by former military General Edwin Walker.

You keep stating this yet offer little to support the claims...  Who within Walker's purview could tell Rear Admiral Galloway, Burkely, LeMay and Kinney to completely falsify the autopsy report, who could get the SS to remove the body from Dallas, and could keep everything under wraps with a threat of court-martial?

WH_Vol16_0016a - walker home no license plate and steel jacket reports.jpg

2. I agree emphatically that the core of the plot was to blame the USSR and Fidel Castro -- the Reds -- for the JFK murder.

The core of the plot was to assassinate JFK and divert attention away from the real killers/plotters...  whether we'd attack and occupy Cuba, attack the USSR or simply shift attention to SE Asia was the CONSEQUENCE of the plot, not the point of it.

3.  Hoover was never clear about the Impersonation of LHO in Mexico City.  He asked -- was LHO in MC or was he Impersonated?   Choose one!

Hoover was steadfast in his claiming that the man in the photo was not Oswald, so in fact there were 2 MEN at the Cuban Consulate... Oswald and this other person...  it was only thru that one note that we learn how he felt about the CIA and their Mexico City charade... but he STILL went along and covered it up for them....  why?

3.1.  However, the real answer was BOTH.   LHO was not alone in MC.  That is part of Hoover's "Lone Nut" mythology.

Harvey Oswald Lee...  LEE, Harvey Oswald as his paperwork shows, was not in MC during that period.  The man who did visit Duran/Azcue is unknown and other than the hotel register - which was also in the possession of the FBI's asset the weekend of the assassination - there is simply nothing to corroborate that person was there...  we already know the man's voice was not Oswald's.

4.  LHO was in MC at the bequest of Guy Banister.  This is clear because the Lopez Report shows the actual resumé that LHO brought to MC

WTF are you jabbering on about? Cite the page and reference and explain how one has anything to do with the other.  This is the same man who agrees with the FBI's travel explanation.

4.1. LHO made that resumé with help from Banister's team at 544 Camp Street.  LHO also provided his photos and signature.

Again PB, WTF are you jabbering about?  I have searched for this resume and simply cannot find it in the 2003 Lopez report.

2 page hits in this report

retention of the Soviet tapes is DIR-88680, which says: Upon receipt you may resume usual practice of keeping Cuban and Soviet tapes two weeks and then erasing
assistant chief of the Mexican Security Service Kazar. Mr. Nazar gave an oral resume of the interviews which Mexican officials conducted in 1963 of Silvia, Horatio

5.  But LHO was not alone in MC.  Most likely Loran Hall and Larry Howard drove him there.   Also, others met them in MC -- very likely David Morales.

your opinion at best, and yes I see it comes from Bill's work.  But since you cannot get him to MC, cannot place him in MC or get him out of MC... what he did there is conjecture based on an accepted assumption.

6.  According to Bill Simpich (2014) it is most likely that David Morales impersonated LHO in MC over the wiretapped telephone at the Cuban Consulate, calling the USSR Embassy.   

Has nothing whatsoever to do with Oswald other than the name.  Still does not get him in and out of MC or explain all the FBI's BS evidence created by that asset I've mentioned, who you nor Bill nor Armstrong had uncovered.  Your lack of curiosity is amazing to me.  You claim the FBI did not create a thing yet haven't the first inkling of who I'm speaking about...   Again PB, if you can make it thru the 6 State Secret chapters you can at least look into the 6 chapters I did on the evidence...  unless of course you don't care about research with sources, links and examples...

7.  Bill Simpich (2014) fully explains Mystery Man -- he was a random photo inserted into LHO's 201 file in service of the CIA Mole Hunt, set to catch the impersonator.

This is one of Bill's theories, I don't agree with everything Bill offers.  the photo most assuredly was not random.  What do you suppose Win means here in this letter to "J.C'"  This is in reference to the Mystery man photo...  and you are also aware the FBI's ODUM shows that photo to Oswald's mother.  

And despite all this, the FBI and CIA continued to reference this Anne Goodpasture/Phillips photo and the tapes as proof Oswald was in MC.

63-11-22 Win Scott to JC King - Photo of a person KNOWN TO YOU.jpg

64-09-23 CIA memo related to ODUM showing Marguerite a photo of Mystery Man who she thought and said was Ruby - plus other CIA memo.jpg

8.  LHO's middle name was also changed to HENRY in his 201 file, in order to catch the Mole.   They never caught the mole.   But Bill Simpich (2014) did

This has nothing to do with whether Oswald was in MC.  you think Anne Egerter created this in Dec 1960 with the thought of catching moles in Mexico in 1963?

Because Bill does not delve into the travel to and from as I did, I try to let those who've put the time in to tell the story.  And Bill's is a great story with a very good chance of being accurate....  But I'm not in a position to challenge what I have not thoroughly studied

From State Secret: (his name was never "changed" as they already aware of Lee Harvey.

Egerter named him “Lee Henry Oswald”, and supplied the head of covert operations with a separate Lee Henry Oswald index card with the note “CIT?”, asking whether Oswald was a citizen. Egerter knew Oswald’s real name and was staying on top of his story, as shown by a late 1960 note signed by Egerter after reviewing the Soviet division’s latest memo on Oswald’s background. Oswald’s 201 file could now be used to keep track of Oswald’s alleged biography.

As mentioned earlier, the covert operations desk had a separate Lee Harvey Oswald index card that was based on Fain’s interviews with the Oswald family. This card states flatly and falsely that Oswald was now a Soviet citizen! In the limited but important world of CIA record-keeping, there were now two different Oswalds by the end of 1960.[ 22 ]

22 For the limited but important purpose of CIA record-keeping, there were now two different Oswalds: By the time 1963 rolled around, a “Lee H. Oswald” index card would also be created based on his activity in New Orleans. This card had “P2” on it, which referred to page two of the report describing Oswald as a “(member) of the New Orleans chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee at 799 Broadway, New York City. See doc re distribution of Cuban propaganda”. This phrase is quoted on the index card itself.

The CIA agrees that all three of these index cards were in existence as of 11/22/63), one for his 201 file, and the other two based on FBI reports from 1960 and 1963. The question is whether these cards were used for different legends of the man.

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Paul T

Sorry but I can´t go half way with you. I don´t believe Oswald made it to MC and Walker did not kill Kennedy.

At this point I think you and I can agree that our government in the form of the CIA, FBI, SS, military and the MSM (paid off) covered up the murder of JFK. The same government that provided evidence of Oswald in MC. How can you justify your belief in the evidence our government provides knowing they covered up the investigation?

Hoover was upset that his agency was kept in the dark with regard to the assassination of the president in the early stages of the investigation. To make matters worse rumors were flying around that Oswald was in the employ of the FBI. As a result, Hoover was not a team player. It took Allen Dulles to get Hoover on the same page.

If the CIA admitted that they had a 201 file on Oswald they would be admitting that Oswald worked for the CIA, or that he was a contract agent for them. They would never admit that they have a 201 file on Oswald.

I´m not familiar with the writings of Simpich. I can´t answer you on what he said or wrote. 

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Paul

The military had to be involved. They had to give their consent. When a coup occurs the military must be on the side of the leaders of the coup or the risk of civil war is heavy. But I do not think that the military initiated the coup.

The impersonation of Oswald set up Russia and Cuba. I believe Russia was to be nuked and then Cuba would be invaded. However our civilian government stopped the military from acting against Russia and Cuba and a deal with the military was made whereby an invasion of Vietnam would be supported by the federal government. The military accepted the deal and that is why the Vietnam War.

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Mr. J - thanks from Mr. B.

George - good analysis. I don't know who initiated the coup. The operational link between Dulles and the Joint Chiefs is obvious.

I'm not sure why Mr. T thinks paramilitary and military and military reserve are separate entities. He knows better, but persists anyway. Perhaps he doesn't know that Lemnitzer congratulated Walker on his Pro Blue program. Or he imagines that Walker and Bannister were somehow more extreme in their views than Dulles or Angleton or LeMay and Lemnitzer. It's bizarre. I really like your explanation of the deal between civilian and military after the assassination. Mr. T will answer your question by saying that the coverup was the result of wiser heads - Dulles, Hoover etc, and civilian leadership, preferring coverup to civil war.

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Posted (edited)

SImpich says that Loran Hall and Howard drove LHO to MC?

 

Morales impersonated the phone call?

 

And the Mystery Man photo was inserted as part of a mole hunt?

 

Where is the back up for all this?  This strikes me as simply speculation.  Just as LHO doing those things in MC is.

Edited by James DiEugenio

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Posted (edited)

23 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

SImpich says that Loran Hall and Howard drove LHO to MC?

Morales impersonated the phone call?

And the Mystery Man photo was inserted as part of a mole hunt?

Where is the back up for all this?  This strikes me as simply speculation.  Just as LHO doing those things in MC is.

No, James.

Harry Dean says Loran Hall and Larry Howard drove LHO to Mexico City.

Mexican Immigration records also say that LHO entered (and exited) Mexico City as a passenger in a car.

Bill Simpich, however, DOES SUGGEST, that David Morales was behind the Impersonation of LHO in Mexico City.

Bill Simpich does say that the Mystery Man photo was inserted into LHO's 201 file as part of a CIA Mole Hunt.

This is known by people who have actually read Bill Simpich's fantastic eBook, State Secret: Wiretapping in Mexico City (2014)

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 6:29 PM, George Sawtelle said:

Paul T

Sorry but I can´t go half way with you. I don´t believe Oswald made it to MC and Walker did not kill Kennedy.

At this point I think you and I can agree that our government in the form of the CIA, FBI, SS, military and the MSM (paid off) covered up the murder of JFK. The same government that provided evidence of Oswald in MC. How can you justify your belief in the evidence our government provides knowing they covered up the investigation?

Hoover was upset that his agency was kept in the dark with regard to the assassination of the president in the early stages of the investigation. To make matters worse rumors were flying around that Oswald was in the employ of the FBI. As a result, Hoover was not a team player. It took Allen Dulles to get Hoover on the same page...

George,

What is your evidence that Oswald never made it to Mexico City?   The Cuban consuls have his resume, his photos, his signature, and his conversations.

Also -- I can only agree that the FBI covered up the Conspiracy to murder JFK -- that is, the FBI figured out who the real killers were on the first day -- and they decided that the American People must not know their true identity for 75 years.  

Actually -- the reason was that the American People are vastly open people -- and if the Americans knew, then the whole world would know -- and the US Government really did not want the USSR to know -- because the USSR would have had a propaganda field day with the truth.

The CIA was not involved, because the CIA was clueless.  They had no idea who killed JFK -- until the FBI told the CIA leaders.  Same with the SS and the Pentagon.  They were clueless until the FBI told their leaders.

Walker and his Team killed JFK.   The tried to blame Fidel Castro.   They almost succeeded.   If they had succeeded, the USA would have entered a new level of Military Engagement.  That was the real aim of General Walker. 

He failed.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

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Quote

What is your evidence that Oswald never made it to Mexico City?   The Cuban consuls have his resume, his photos, his signature, and his conversations.

Prove the positive PB...  

So Azcue was wrong, Duran was wrong, Mann was wrong, Scott was wrong...

You still have not pointed out where in the LOPEZ report ... how did you put it?

Quote

Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) surely was in Mexico City.  Anybody who thinks differently is having trouble reading the Lopez Report (2003).

So assume we are all having this trouble Paul and link to the evidence...  what are YOU talking about...  

Can you stay focused long enough to prove your point... you obviously had something specific in mind from that report.....

Connect the dots PB....   Oswald's travel to Mexico City and the Cubans having his APPLICATION (if you have what you consider a Resume, post it please as from what I can tell, there was no "resume")

THIS is the application and even it does no prove your point.

The signatures don't match, the carbons don't match...  a photo is not proof this person was there (there were no places for an Oswald to have these photos taken nearby the Consulate)  both Duran and Azcue state the man Ruby killed was not this person while Odio and sister has him in Dallas Friday night...

Post some evidence Paul, your soap box opinion is wearing thin....

2 completely different applications - no resume.jpg

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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Prove the positive PB...  

So Azcue was wrong, Duran was wrong, Mann was wrong, Scott was wrong...

You still have not pointed out where in the LOPEZ report ... how did you put it?

So assume we are all having this trouble Paul and link to the evidence...  what are YOU talking about...  

Can you stay focused long enough to prove your point... you obviously had something specific in mind from that report.....

Connect the dots PB....   Oswald's travel to Mexico City and the Cubans having his APPLICATION (if you have what you consider a Resume, post it please as from what I can tell, there was no "resume")

THIS is the application and even it does no prove your point.

The signatures don't match, the carbons don't match...  a photo is not proof this person was there (there were no places for an Oswald to have these photos taken nearby the Consulate)  both Duran and Azcue state the man Ruby killed was not this person while Odio and sister has him in Dallas Friday night...

Post some evidence Paul, your soap box opinion is wearing thin.... 

David,

Your tendency to post massive volumes of data only serves to shield the fact that your substance is weak.

First and foremost, as promised, here is evidence from the Lopez Report that Oswald was clearly in Mexico City.   Hardway and Lopez write the following:

It is the conclusion of this Committee that the Warren Commission correctly established that Oswald had traveled to Mexico City.  (The Lopez Report, 2003, Introduction, p. 3)

There is, of course, much more, and we must wonder how you keep blinding yourself to it.   The volume of your weak substance is one reason.

As for Azcue and Duran, you are evidently reading them wrong -- with your obvious bias no doubt.

I have connected far more dots than you have, David.  My work is focused -- your work is scattered all over the map.

You are entirely mistaken when you say Oswald brought no resume to Mexico City.  Entirely separate from Lee Harvey Oswald's Application, Silvia Tirado Duran explicitly reported this: 

[Oswald] showed her some documents, then left to obtain photographs needed for his application.  (The Lopez Report, 2003, Part VI, p. 191)

The issue of the "documents" is listed separately from the "application."   In a partial list of those documents Silvia Tirado Duran explicitly reported this: 

As identification, Oswald showed her documents which he had brought: (1) his Russian labor card; (2) marriage certificate with the name of his Russian wife; (3) his American Communist Party membership card; and (4) “Fair Play for Cuba” membership card.  (The Lopez Report, 2003, Part VI, p. 191)

(We must note here that the CPUSA did not dispense membership cards.   LHO forged this, just as he forged his Alek J. HIdell Fake ID and his "credentials" making him an officer of the FPCC).  

The rest of the documents -- clearly a semi-formal resume -- consisted of newspaper clippings from New Orleans, extolling LHO as an FPCC officer who had been in jail for the FPCC.   These photos are part of the Lopez Report, too.   I notice you omitted them in your large posting of photos.

Further, when Silvia Tirado Duran told Lee Harvey Oswald that the USSR Embassy would not grant him a visa, he referred to the New Orleans clipping about his arrest in New Orleans when he argued forcefully to Silvia Duran as follows:

After she relayed the message to Oswald, he got very excited, insisting that as a person who had been in jail because of the Cuban Revolution he should receive a visa.  (The Lopez Report, 2003, Part VI, p. 193)

The signatures match.   The carbons match.   The photos match because eye-witnesses who received the photos from the person himself said they matched.   You are dreaming in your denials.

As for the later squeamishness about Oswald, this occurred when the US and Mexican Governments put the screws on Silvia Duran and her associates, to try to blame them for the JFK assassination.  Naturally they would make qualifying statements.

There is the evidence, David.  And in fact there's much more.  I have it, and you don't.  So there's that.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo
 

Edited by Paul Trejo

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Paul T

It´s not the evidence that has been provided by the government to prove Oswald was in MC it´s what they didn´t provide that leads me to believe he was not there.

There should be photos of Oswald leaving the Cuban consulate. There should be pictures of Oswald entering and leaving the Soviet consulate.

If the MC CIA station had pictures of Oswald they would surely show them. I´m sure they thought about faking photos but I doubt anyone could come up with credible fake photos. Faking documents is much easier than faking photos.

 

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Posted (edited)

Notice this piece of diversion by PT:  Mexican Immigration records also say that LHO entered (and exited) Mexico City as a passenger in a car.

Like I do not know that?  Anyone who has read Armstrong or David J on MC will know that. Or even my first book.

How on earth does that translate into Hall and Howard driving LHO to MC?  Because Harry Dean says so?

OMG, time to bring Ernie L back.

And BTW, anyone who has read the Lopez Report will know that Goodpasture knew who the mystery man was.  He is actually named there. (p. 179)

And he was not inserted because of any mole hunt.  He was inserted because there was no photo of Oswald, and Annie needed a WM pic to go along with the phone call.  So she moved over the date this photo was taken by one day to match the phone call.  And she got caught in this piece of subterfuge. (ibid, p. 140) 

And PT scolds everyone for not reading the Lopez Report, when it does not appear he has done so himself.  BTW, I go through all of this skullduggery by Goodpasture in the paperback edition of Reclaiming Parkland. This whole Mystery Man imbroglio is not due to a mole hunt.  Its worse than that.  It really seems to be that, as Eddie Lopez told me, Goodpasture was carrying out orders from Phillips while he was away. (Reclaiming Parkland, revised edition, pgs 294-96)

 

PS Dan and Eddie never analyzed the info that puts LHO on those buses to MC.  Therefore they made an assumption.  It turned out to be dubious. There simply is no straightforward proof, or even strong evidence, that LHO was in Mexico City.  And anyone who assumes the opposite is talking through their hat.

Edited by James DiEugenio

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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

Paul T

It´s not the evidence that has been provided by the government to prove Oswald was in MC it´s what they didn´t provide that leads me to believe he was not there.

There should be photos of Oswald leaving the Cuban consulate. There should be pictures of Oswald entering and leaving the Soviet consulate.

If the MC CIA station had pictures of Oswald they would surely show them. I´m sure they thought about faking photos but I doubt anyone could come up with credible fake photos. Faking documents is much easier than faking photos.

George,

Despite James Di Eugenio's rant, the important work by Bill Simpich (2014) is indispensable in understanding the Mexico City trip of Lee Harvey Oswald in late September 1963.

Bill SImpich shows -- with careful scholarship -- that the photograph of the large Russian dude in LHO's 201 file was inserted there because of a top-secret Mole Hunt, to discover who had Impersonated LHO in Mexico City, over the telephone, from the Cuban consulate to the Russian Embassy -- the most wire-tapped telephone in the world at that time.

Bill Simpich's absolutely mandatory eBook is entitled, State Secret: Wiretapping in Mexico City (2014) and it is 100% free on the Internet, just for the downloading.  It is a milestone in JFK research in the 20th century.   A work of admirable scholarship.

There were photos of LHO in Mexico City, but they were removed because of this important CIA Mole Hunt.

IMHO, those photos of LHO will be revealed to the American Public on Thursday 26 October 2017, when the JFK Records Act comes to maturity. We will all see them, then.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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Paul T 

Please don´t take  this to be derogatory but sounds a lot like check´s in the mail.

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Posted (edited)

LOL  :lol:

 

Nice one George.

I would like to add, if you read my post, its footnoted.  I actually read the Lopez Report twice.  And I made extensive notes.  That is why I have 47 footnotes to it in RP, revised edition.

If you check the notes, you will see that its all there just as I said it was.  Goodpasture brought that picture over from the wrong day to match a phone call allegedly made by Oswald. That is what Danny and Eddie say she did.  She then tried to excuse it all as a mistake.  But Danny and Eddie did not buy it because the daily columns were set off in bright red percentage marks.  How could she have missed that?  They conclude she did not.  They also do not buy it as a mistake.  

She did it because she had no picture of Oswald. (And BTW the phone call was not by Oswald either.)  And she had to match the call to a WM.  And that was the closest one she had so she stuck that in there, hoping no one would question her about it.  The WC, of course, did not.  Dan and Eddie did.  Nothing to do with any mole hunt.  Just a CYA exercise to conceal the fact that there was no photo of Oswald.  If you read the report, this is all made crystal clear. Evidently, PT did not read it.

One last point, what I like about the Lopez Report, is this:  it is pretty much a no spin zone.  They present the evidence and the facts and the exhibits.  The report does not draw any conclusions about the adduced record.  Therefore you will not read anything about a mole hunt in there.  At least I do not recall it.  What you will read about is an inexplicable record of bizarre anomalies that simply are not explainable in any rational way.  Plus the fact that every routine, every rule of the CIA station in MC seems to have been violated in this instance about Oswald. And the real puzzler for me is that there was no formal review in the seven weeks between when the CIA says Oswald was there, and the assassination.

And clearly, Phillips and Goodpasture could not explain all these anomalies.  Which is why Dan and Eddie prepared a bill of indictment for them.  

But let me add this:  If you talk to Eddie personally, as I did at his home, he will tell you that from the evidence they collected, he personally does not think Oswald was in Mexico City doing the things the WC said he did.  He will preface that as his opinion of course. 

 

Edited by James DiEugenio

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