Jim Hargrove

TWO MARGUERITE OSWALDS -- NEW DETAILS

535 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

45 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I've tried to think of a way the contradictory fall-of-1953 line could have accidentally been put on the Beauregard record. And I've asked others if they can think of a way. (Or, more generally, an explanation for that line.) So far I'm drawing a blank. (And I doubt that anybody else here is trying.)


Here are the simplest explanations I can think of:

  1. Assuming the contradictory fall-of-1953 line was added first:
    This option is really not possible. Because there was no LHO and no Marguerite in New Orleans to even get the record started. So forget this possibility.
     
  2. Assuming the contradictory fall-of-1953 line was added last:
    Here's my hypothesis:  In January 13, 1954, the one and only LHO enrolled for classes at Beauregard. He attended the spring semester of the 1953/54 school year (Which would be in the spring of 1954, just to be clear.) He took the summer off, and then attended the fall and spring semesters of the 1954/55 school year.

    Some time later, an office worker noticed that there was a student (not LHO) whose classes had accidentally been written onto two different records... the fall of 1953 on one record, and all later classes on the other record. Let's call this student Jack. The office worker decided to copy Jack's fall 1953 line over to his later record. Unfortunately, in doing so she accidentally pulled LHO's record instead of Jack's later record. And so she accidentally copied Jack's fall1953 line over to LHO's 1954/55 record.


This seems like a highly unlikely scenario to me. Can anybody come up with a simpler scenario?

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Greg Parker discusses grades/and or credits being commonly transferred to a new school.

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1361-creating-mayhem-with-historical-records


I saw that potential answer when I visited the ROKC forum again this morning. When students transfer to new schools, administrators try to pass credits to the new school as much as reasonably possible.

Problem is, Oswald had completed the fall semester of the 1953/54 school year at PS #44. Oswald missed just a few days* and got passing grades in all his classes but one, Fine Arts. The odd thing is that there are six classes per semester, and for some reason Oswald is shown as taking seven at PS #44.

Since Oswald was given a passing grade in six of his PS #44 classes, I can think of no reason why he would need to pass any of those credits over to Beauregard. But what about the seventh, seemingly unnecessary class that he failed, Fine Arts? Well let's assume for the sake of argument that Oswald missed the final test for that class due to his moving to New Orleans before the end of the semester. And let's suppose the administrators at Beauregard were kind and didn't want to see Lee lose that credit just because of his moving. What they would do is give Lee credit for the class closest to Fine Arts they offer.

Well the closest class Beauregard offered was Art (without the "Fine"). Or maybe something like Social Studies, since Fine Art is be the appreciation of art, whereas Art is the practice of producing art.

But for some reason that is not what Lee was given. He was given credit for taking General Science. And also Physical Education. It's the addition of a second class that really bothers me.

So I don't see that Greg Parker's explanation works.

 

*(Actually it appears to state that Oswald missed 3 full days and 8 half days. So it's possible that he missed 11 days in some classes. But this is irrelevant for the most part given that Oswald passed all but one of his classes.)

 

Here are the records again so everyone can take a look:

NYC%20school%20record.jpg

 

Beauregard%20Record.jpg

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Sandy,

So can we pencil you in as a member of the H&L club?


I'm still exploring it.

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen

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2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Jim, how long had it been since the Evans had seen the "real" Marguerite?

Myrtle Evans says she last saw her in April 1955.  Julian remembered it as May of the same year.

However, Myrtle met Harvey Oswald (the Russian-speaking impostor killed by Ruby) a couple of years later.  It's a fascinating story.

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2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:


I've tried to think of a way the contradictory fall-of-1953 line could have accidentally been put on the Beauregard record. And I've asked others if they can think of a way. (Or, more generally, an explanation for that line.) So far I'm drawing a blank. (And I doubt that anybody else here is trying.)

It ain't gonna happen from the H&L critics.  They'll just point to another website which, as you point out, has no answer either, and hope it all goes away.

Possible explanations for the school record conflicts are quite simple.  Here are two explanations in my own words:

American-born LEE Oswald, briefly living with the Murrets at 809 French St. probably enrolled at Beauregard at the start of the 2nd semester on 1/13/54. We can’t say for sure how Russian-speaking HARVEY’s info from the previous semester got onto LEE’s cumulative record, but it clearly did and there are several reasonable guesses as to how. One is that an office worker at Beauregard who took LEE’s enrollment information started to file it and then noticed the previous semester’s info for the exact (or nearly exact) same name. Logically assuming it was the same student, the fall semester info was added to LEE’s spring semester enrollment info, all the data eventually being transferred to the cumulative record.
 
Or, equally likely, some FBI flunky created the whole record designed to merge the identities of two different students and didn’t remember or know about the NYC conflict.
 

Tracy is afraid to put a theory into his own words because he knows how unlikely it will sound.  So he just points this way and that way and pretends the answers are there.  It's VERY FUNNY how he has dug into this technique.  Watch him point to another website now, pretending the answer is there ....

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8 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Myrtle Evans says she last saw her in April 1955.  Julian remembered it as May of the same year.

However, Myrtle met Harvey Oswald (the Russian-speaking impostor killed by Ruby) a couple of years later.  It's a fascinating story.

Please do tell us Jim when Julian or Myrtle Evans ever specifically said they met two different Marguerite Oswalds or two different Lee Harvey Oswalds. And we are not interested in your interpretation of their testimony.

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4 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Possible explanations for the school record conflicts are quite simple.

Or another explanation that works with the mountain of other evidence is that the records are wrong or being misinterpreted by the H&L proponents to suit their own purposes.

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It looks like alleged LEE gets better grades than alleged HARVEY. Check it out below.

Lee's scores are mostly low 70s to low 80s.

Harvey's scores are mostly mid 50s to mid 60s.

What are those two classes where Harvey got 80? One is "Directed Physical Activities," which I guess is gym class. That explains that higher score. Can anybody read the other 80 that Harvey got? The subject?

 

Here are the records again so everyone can take a look:

NYC%20school%20record.jpg

 

Beauregard%20Record.jpg

 

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5 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:


Oh really?  

Myrtle Evans and her husband Julian were friends with the real Marguerite Oswald for nearly three decades. Included in Julian Evans' April 7, 1964 WC testimony was this exchange with Jenner (emphasis added):  


Mr. JENNER - Give me your impression of Marguerite Oswald.
Mr. EVANS - Marguerite?
Mr. JENNER - Yes.
Mr. EVANS - I think she's a fine woman, myself, a fine woman; intelligent, very soft spoken - a beautiful woman, with black hair streaked with a little gray, but when you saw her on television since this thing happened, she really looked awful; nothing at all like she used to look. She has really aged. She looked like a charwoman, compared to what she used to look like. She used to be a fashion plate. She dressed beautifully, but when we saw her on television just recently, after all this happened, she looked awful. There's no way to describe it, the change that has come over her. You wouldn't have recognized her if they hadn't told you who she was; she looked that different. Where her hair used to be black, now it's entirely gray, and she really looks Old
Mr. JENNER - Well, she's 57, I believe.
Mr. EVANS - That's right; she's the same age as my wife, but she looks about 70 now. That's about all I can remember about her, and then I saw this thing on television when the President was assassinated, and when it showed her picture, we just couldn't believe it was Marguerite.


His wife Myrtle Evans testified on the same day:

Mrs. EVANS - A very good housekeeper, very tasty; she could take anything and make something out of it, and something beautiful. She had a lot of natural talent that way, and she was not lazy. She would work with things by the hour for her children, and she kept a very neat house, and she was always so lovely herself. That's why, when I saw her on TV, after all of this happened, she looked so old and haggard, and I said, "That couldn't be Margie," but of course it was, but if you had known Margie before all this happened, you would see what I mean. She was beautiful. She had beautiful wavy hair.

....

Mr. and Mrs. Evans both testified that the Lee Harvey Oswald they knew was loud and boisterous, with a "foghorn voice."  This is certainly not the quiet, withdrawn, passive-aggresive kid described by the Warren Commision.


Well ten years is a long time. But it's amazing that neither of them recognized Marguerite.

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5 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Mrs. Evans added this:

Mrs. EVANS - As far as I could see, they were very happy, very closely knit, very much in love with each other, and these boys knew that their mother was putting them through school, and giving them what they needed, as best she could. She was a very good provider for her children, and a very decent woman. I mean, she wasn't a loose woman at all. She was very decent, a very fine woman.

Does that sound like the "Marguerite Oswald" we all heard about.


Jim,

How has "fake" Margaret been described, in contrast to what we read here? I don't recall reading much about her.

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Harvey Oswald’s caretaker/”mom” was portrayed as a woman who moved constantly, had trouble holding down a job,  and sometimes argued over very small sums of money, of which she had little.  She often worked, apparently, as a practical nurse, and was seen by many people and can be seen in photographs wearing a white nurse’s uniform.

Interestingly, the woman born as Margaret Claverie (real Marguerite) never worked as a nurse and was never seen in a nurse’s uniform.  Mr. and Mrs. Evans, her best friends, never described her in a nurse’s uniform or working as a nurse.

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4 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Please do tell us Jim when Julian or Myrtle Evans ever specifically said they met two different Marguerite Oswalds or two different Lee Harvey Oswalds. And we are not interested in your interpretation of their testimony.


I’d be happy to tell you the story of how Myrtle met Harvey, Tracy.  You’ll LOVE it!

All I ask is that, in your own words, you first explain your theory for how the 53/54 fall semester attendance and course entries got on Oswald’s Beauregard record in New Orleans.  You know…. the courses he took in New Orleans while he was in New York City.  Just a sentence or two of your own…. not that same link to nonsense again.  

Surely it’ll take you just a few seconds to use your own words….

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3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

It looks like alleged LEE gets better grades than alleged HARVEY. Check it out below.

Lee's scores are mostly low 70s to low 80s.

Harvey's scores are mostly mid 50s to mid 60s.

What are those two classes where Harvey got 80? One is "Directed Physical Activities," which I guess is gym class. That explains that higher score. Can anybody read the other 80 that Harvey got? The subject?

 

Here are the records again so everyone can take a look:

NYC%20school%20record.jpg

 

Beauregard%20Record.jpg

 

I blew up the picture in another browser. The 2nd 80 appears to be in Maestro "something", I can't make out the 2nd word. ?

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56 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:


I’d be happy to tell you the story of how Myrtle met Harvey, Tracy.  You’ll LOVE it!

All I ask is that, in your own words, you first explain your theory for how the 53/54 fall semester attendance and course entries got on Oswald’s Beauregard record in New Orleans.  You know…. the courses he took in New Orleans while he was in New York City.  Just a sentence or two of your own…. not that same link to nonsense again.  

Surely it’ll take you just a few seconds to use your own words….

I guess we'll never get to hear that fine tale then because I can't explain every discrepancy in the record beyond the explanation Parker has offered or beyond the fact that it is a mistake.

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