TWO MARGUERITE OSWALDS -- NEW DETAILS

[W. Tracy Parnell]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Don't you wonder how it is that LHO took so few classes (only 2 out of 6) in his first semester at Beauregard?

Answer-no because he was a deadbeat who missed so many days of school in NYC he was declared a truant. So attending a minimum of classes was nothing new to him.

[Jim Hargrove]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Tracy,

I agree with Jim that Stripling's assistant principal is telling the truth. If I were on your side, I would choose to explain the discrepancy the way I did in my prior post.

Don't you wonder how it is that LHO took so few classes (only 2 out of 6) in his first semester at Beauregard?

It's considerate of you, Sandy, to offer Tracy this open window of opportunity, but he knows he can't wriggle through it.  The real reason he can't is that the first semester at Beauregard (starting in fall 1953) conflicts not with Stripling (which started in the fall of 1954) but with New York City public school records.

As you can see, this record shows that he attended Public School 44 in New York City in the fall semester of 1953 (starting September 14) and attending for more than 62 school days--well into 1954.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

45 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

It's considerate of you, Sandy, to offer Tracy this open window of opportunity, but he knows he can't wriggle through it.  The real reason he can't is that the first semester at Beauregard (starting in fall 1953) conflicts not with Stripling (which started in the fall of 1954) but with New York City public school records.

No, that's what you folks think it does. Greg Parker has answered all this stuff ad nauseam so no need to reinvent the wheel. here is a typical thread that discusses the subject if anyone is interested:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/19762-harvey-and-lee-john-armstrong/&page=91#comment-313030

BTW, Parker explains the situation very clearly and succinctly in his book Lee Harvey Oswald's Cold War vol. 2 in the section titled "Creating Mayhem With Historical Records."

Edited March 3, 2017 by W. Tracy Parnell

[Jim Hargrove]

Tracy,

Let’s stop directing people to everywhere but here.  Instead of sending people to another thread (that hardly supports your position) or pointing to a book written by someone else (but not presented in any arguable detail here), let’s get back to our debate.

The PS 44 records from New York City and the Beauregard records from New Orleans clearly indicate that “Lee Harvey Oswald” spent, at the very least, some or most of the semesters starting in the fall of 1953 at both schools.   Sandy raised as a possibility that since “Oswald” seemed to only have a couple of classes when he attended Beauregard in the fall semester of 1953, perhaps that is when he attended Stripling School in Fort Worth Texas, as remembered by so many witnesses, including his “brother” Robert Oswald.

You blithely suggested that perhaps LHO was truant and missed a whole slew of school days during the ‘53 fall semester at Beauregard because, in your own words, “he was a deadbeat” and had been truant in NYC.  But the truth is, he attended more than 62 school days in the fall semester at P.S. 44 in NYC, nearly an entire school semester, leaving precious little time for him to be a truant deadbeat for the same semester in New Orleans.  Once again, you seem to be misleading people.

Sandy’s suggestion that Oswald my have attended Stripling in the 1953 fall semester is clearly untenable, since he was attending both a NYC school (for the overwhelming majority of that semester) and a New Orleans school (for a duration we can argue about) during that very same semester.  That, among a number of other reasons, including real Marguerite’s residence at 1454 St. Mary’s St. in New Orleans from early 1954 to 1955, indicates “Oswald’s” presence at Stripling School in Texas cannot be explained by Beauregard school records covering the fall ‘53 semester.  The contradictions clearly go deeper than that, which you can only explain by saying a whole lot of people are mistaken or ly1ng, including newspaper reports predating the assassination of JFK.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

28 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Tracy,

Let’s stop directing people to everywhere but here.  Instead of sending people to another thread (that hardly supports your position) or pointing to a book written by someone else (but not presented in any arguable detail here), let’s get back to our debate.

The PS 44 records from New York City and the Beauregard records from New Orleans clearly indicate that “Lee Harvey Oswald” spent, at the very least, some or most of the semesters starting in the fall of 1953 at both schools.   Sandy raised as a possibility that since “Oswald” seemed to only have a couple of classes when he attended Beauregard in the fall semester of 1953, perhaps that is when he attended Stripling School in Fort Worth Texas, as remembered by so many witnesses, including his “brother” Robert Oswald.

You blithely suggested that perhaps LHO was truant and missed a whole slew of school days during the ‘53 fall semester at Beauregard because, in your own words, “he was a deadbeat” and had been truant in NYC.  But the truth is, he attended more than 62 school days in the fall semester at P.S. 44 in NYC, nearly an entire school semester, leaving precious little time for him to be a truant deadbeat for the same semester in New Orleans.  Once again, you seem to be misleading people.

Sandy’s suggestion that Oswald my have attended Stripling in the 1953 fall semester is clearly untenable, since he was attending both a NYC school (for the overwhelming majority of that semester) and a New Orleans school (for a duration we can argue about) during that very same semester.  That, among a number of other reasons, including real Marguerite’s residence at 1454 St. Mary’s St. in New Orleans from early 1954 to 1955, indicates “Oswald’s” presence at Stripling School in Texas cannot be explained by Beauregard school records covering the fall ‘53 semester.  The contradictions clearly go deeper than that, which you can only explain by saying a whole lot of people are mistaken or ly1ng, including newspaper reports predating the assassination of JFK.

First, I can direct anybody anywhere I want to. You never use links to other websites? The link I posted is to the Education Forum after all! As far as Parker's book, I recommend it for the work debunking the H&L theory and for those interested in a reasonable conspiracy theory.

I was not saying that LHO was a truant in NO, just that he had shown that school was not a priority for him so if he attended the minimum classes that wouldn't be a shock.

As I have mentioned, Robert probably assumed that LHO attended Stripling because he did. But if he did, I am unaware of when it could have been but I will remain open to the idea if it makes sense in the context of the facts. If he did, it was for a very short time period but it was not when you postulate. You are relying on 30-40 years old recollections. The witnesses could be remembering Robert or are just wrong. They have been coached as part of a "witness recruitment program" as explained by Lifton. Lurkers can do a search here at EF to find more information on that.

LHO enrolled at Beauregard January 13, 1954 and attended until the end of the school year in 1955. He then started at Warren Easton in September, 1955. Anybody that says otherwise is misreading records or mistaken (not necessarily lying). There are and will be contradictions in the record and professional investigators (police, FBI etc.) realize that fact. John Armstrong, who is not a professional investigator or researcher and does not even know how to use citations, does not realize it and thinks (or says he does) that every inconsistency is proof of 2 Oswalds.

Edited March 3, 2017 by W. Tracy Parnell

[W. Tracy Parnell]

While I am thinking of it, what is Armstrong's position on the following photo. Ralph Cinque is saying this is the "real" Marguerite even though she has glasses.

 

[Jim Hargrove]

2 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

As far as Parker's book, I recommend it for the work debunking the H&L theory and for those interested in a reasonable conspiracy theory.

Then by all means please post excerpts here so I can debate them!

You and Parker have devoted considerable portions of your lives trying to debunk Harvey and Lee, have you not?  Are you and Parker afraid of open debate?

Please post Parker's best arguments "debunking" Harvey and Lee right here!   Let's talk!!!

 

[W. Tracy Parnell]

54 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Then by all means please post excerpts here so I can debate them!

You and Parker have devoted considerable portions of your lives trying to debunk Harvey and Lee, have you not?  Are you and Parker afraid of open debate?

Please post Parker's best arguments "debunking" Harvey and Lee right here!   Let's talk!!!

 

Well, I don't want to be accused of copyright infringement. But I think you are familiar with the arguments already from your many debates here at EF. 

[Sandy Larsen]

[deleted]
 

Edited March 4, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

On 3/3/2017 at 10:05 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

It's considerate of you, Sandy, to offer Tracy this open window of opportunity, but he knows he can't wriggle through it.  The real reason he can't is that the first semester at Beauregard (starting in fall 1953) conflicts not with Stripling (which started in the fall of 1954) but with New York City public school records.

Oh my gosh, Jim, I beg your pardon. Somehow I got the impression that the Stripling school year was 1953/54, not 1954/55! Maybe because of the yellow marker applied over that year?

But I am relieved for John's and your sake because your case was looking weaker than what I'd imagined. Now I see that I'd made a mistake and that your case is actually very strong.

All the more reason for having that "sidebar" link that we talked about. But seriously, I do believe your "sidebar" would be MUCH better if it were a special webpage that includes both the graphic and an explanation. The explanation should point out what each row means, and the names of the columns.

[Sandy Larsen]

On 3/3/2017 at 10:05 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

As you can see, this record shows that he attended Public School 44 in New York City in the fall semester of 1953 (starting September 14) and attending for more than 62 school days--well into 1954

Wow, that is amazing evidence Jim! These two documents show that Oswald attended two different schools, located in different states, at the very same time! And he attended both for the complete fall semester. Simply amazing.

Jim, it is these "being in two places at the same time" documents that I find really convincing. I'm surprised John didn't play this up in the Marguerite document like he did the Stripling/Beauregard conflict.

I think that Harvey & Me is a well written book documenting the comparative histories of the two Oswalds. But I think it is easy-to-understand proofs like these two school ones that will make converts out of skeptics.

I'm stunned!

[Sandy Larsen]

On 3/3/2017 at 10:33 AM, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Greg Parker has answered all this stuff ad nauseam so no need to reinvent the wheel. here is a typical thread that discusses the subject if anyone is interested:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/19762-harvey-and-lee-john-armstrong/&page=91#comment-313030

Tracy,

I don't know how anybody can argue with what we see in the Beauregard vs. School #44 records for the fall semester of 1953. Apparently Greg Parker has done so. However, I feel the same way Jon Tidd did reading the thread. He said:

"Being too dense to grasp the core of Greg's and D.J.'s disagreements, I can't say I think Greg is wrong. I just have my own reasons for believing there were two youths superficially similar who had the same name."

Can you just simply explain how it is those two records show Oswald attending the two different schools at the very same time?

 

[Jim Hargrove]

12 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Oh my gosh, Jim, I beg your pardon. Somehow I got the impression that the Stripling school year was 1953/54, not 1954/55! Maybe because of the yellow marker applied over that year?

But I am relieved for John's and your sake because your case was looking weaker than what I'd imagined. Now I see that I'd made a mistake and that your case is actually very strong.

All the more reason for having that "sidebar" link that we talked about. But seriously, I do believe your "sidebar" would be MUCH better if it were a special webpage that includes both the graphic and an explanation. The explanation should point out what each row means, and the names of the columns.

At the very least, the NYC PS 44 records and the Beauregard New Orleans records clearly indicate that a single Lee Harvey Oswald could simply not have attended Stripling school in Fort Worth at the same time.  Now let’s see if the PS 44 and Beauregard records by themselves conflict with each other.

I’m reposting below the Beauregard cumulative record for LHO and below that two pages from an FBI report analyzing it.  Remember that the PS44 records clearly indicated that LHO attended more than 62 school days (and was absent three and a fraction days) for the semester beginning 9/14/53 at the NYC school.
 

 

 

Page 10 of the FBI report summarizes the attendance data in the “Absent,” “Tardy,” “Left” and “Re-Ad” columns, which are explained, according to the FBI agents, starting at the bottom of page 10 and continuing to page 11 by William Head, assistant principal at Warren Easton High School, who received the Beauregard records for incoming students.  The FBI’s summary of Head’s explanation has caused Greg Parker and Tracy Parnell to argue against David Josephs and me for years, because Head seemed to say two contradictory things.

At the bottom of page 10, the FBI indicates he said that the “Re ad” column stood for “Re Admitted” and “would represent a total listing of the school days for a given school year.”  But later in the very same paragraph, now at the top of page 11, the report indicates that Head said a school year regularly consisted of 180 days and that “school days in any given year must not fall below 170” and that “therefore the numbers listed opposite this abbreviation indicated the number of school days that Oswald attended for a given school year.”

So which is it?  Does the “Re-Ad” column represent the number of school days in a school semester or year, or the number of days a student actually attended during that period?

The answer is right before us in the documents shown above.    In the actual Beauregard cumulative record for LHO (top document above), look at the very last entry on the far right under the “Re-Ad” column.  It shows a total of “168” days for the 1954-55 school year.  Tracy Parnell wants you to believe that number, like the numbers in the “Re-Ad” column for the previous school year, represent the number of total days in the school year.

But that can’t be!  Head indicated that Louisiana law dictated a minimum of 170 school days in a school year, and so if we’re to believe Tracy’s interpretation, every student report card at Beauregard for the 1954-55 school year was evidence that Louisiana law was being broken.  On the other hand, using my interpretation (that the “168” indicated the actual days LHO attended school) we can make perfect sense of these numbers.  Adding Oswald’s 168 days of attendance and his 12 absences comes out to exactly 180 days, just what Head said comprised a typical Beauregard school year!

The “Re Ad” column clearly indicates the number of days a student actually attended school.  So let’s look at the first semester of the 1953-54 school year at Beauregard.  It indicates that Oswald attended 89 days and was absent once, for a total of 90 school days.

For the 1953 fall semester at PS 44 in New York, Oswald attended 62 and a fraction days and was absent three and a fraction days for a total of 66 school days accounted for.  Add those 66 days to the 90 days from Beauregard and you get at total of 156 days, equivalent to nearly an entire school year! Despite whatever spin Tracy cares to put on this, the NYC and Louisiana school records for fall semester starting in 1953 clearly show two Lee Harvey Oswalds attending two different schools at the same time!

 

[Thomas Graves]

59 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

[...]

Why the super large title?

Vying for attention?

Edited March 5, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

On 2/24/2017 at 3:20 PM, Michael Walton said:

I just don't buy this, Jim.  She's short, she's tall, she's stocky, she's thin, she smiles, she doesn't, her eyebrows are arched, then they're not. It's just way too far fetched for me.  I think, too you give the government way too much credit to think that they had things like this going on.  That's not to say they did not have look a likes to basically mislead people.

But to have a legend within a legend for Oswald - even down to his mother - it just seems way too implausible. Oswald was already a low-level agent the way they sent him over to Russia and let him come right back in with nary a peep from the government. Then they steered him around here and there until they found another role for him to play as patsy.  But I think it' ridiculous for you to think they'd go all the way back to the early 50's to even create a legend for his mother too.

I agree.

--  Tommy