Michael Clark Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) Introduction:Aug 5, 1993. Bay of Pigs. The committee that was formed to discuss the bay of Pigs. A final report that was found much later. BOP was escalated from 30 to 3000 men. Ships had arms for 25,000 (?) men. BOP excellerated right after the inauguration. 8:00. Warning that combat aircraft HAD To Be destroyed. JFk would not approve until the middle of April. Dulles presses. Men are at sea already at sea near Vieques. 7 of 10 combat aircraft destroyed. JFK ordered the last three to be desltroyed. 4 B26's were dispatched and fighters had to be destroyed as a prerequisite to the landing. 10:00 study group put together a report called "Zapata". Released in 83. Dulles, Burke, on the study group. Taylor.(Chairman), RFK. 14:00 Last time CIA would run military ops. Beetle Smith. Frmr ambassador to USSR. Smith, director as CIA under Truman. Beetles inclusion in Zapata group. Important as to why JFK was killed. Points out that the president has TEMPORARY war powers. No such agreement for CIA to rescind war powers after action. Smith " Democracy can not wage war" war powers are temporary. Smith: covert actions only up to a certain size. Covert actions up to 2 or three people or no longer secret. 18:00 Smith: covert actions need to go under a different roof. Destroy CIA's war-making powers. Taylor present to Smith. Agreed unanimous vote. Letter to JFK 6-13-61. Letter to CJCS Prouty asked to prepare briefing to chIefs. "President regards JCS as principal advisor to JFK. JCS has same responsibility in Cold War as Hot War. Rejected, not sent. Prouty told to file it. Military demurred. 21:00 beginning of JFK trouble began with that study group. Refusal of JCS to supplant CIA. 22:00 McGeorge Bundy. Study group concluded that the most significant reason for failure of BOP was the canceling of air strikes. Prouty claims this was Bundy. Bundy tells Cabell not to fly the air strikes. Dulles out of the country. 3 supply ships, 16 B-26's destroyed. interviewer. Why did Bundy call off strikes? Prouty can't explain, but cites that that is the record. 26:30.Report. Item 43. Bundy called off the air strikes. NSC directive. Under IkE, 1954, NSC directive 5412 precluded military from covert ops. 30:00 break 30:02 break 32:00 covert operations becoming huge, 10's of thousands of men and weapons, no longer covert. Bradley, Eisenhower, bitterly resent growing involvement in Asia. 34:00 over 50 meeting Krulak attended Krulak sent to Vietnam, late Aug, Sept. JFK orders Taylor and Macnamara to Vietnam. Late September. Taylor-Macnamara report. Actually written in the Pentagon, dictated by JFK. Returned to JFK oct. 2, 1963. Contains plan for 1000 men back by Christmas. The rest by 65. 39:00 NSAM 55 ? CIA being kicked out of covert ops. 40:30 poor quality of history books. Kennedy killed by bullets and historians. 42:00 Mockingbird Interviewer on Taylor Macnamara report. 2.6 million American rotated through Vietnam. $570 billion war. 45:00 Eisenhower MIC speech. Carter, Reagan assassination attempts. 47:00 Honolulu conference . 60 leaders, and entire cabinet. 11-21 glowing report on vietnam NSAM 273 50:00 Macnamara orders Pentagon Papers written. Les Gelb. Internal security for secretary of Defense, along with Ellsberg. Richard Secord, Eagleburger, Bill Bundy. Pentagon Papers chronological. No mention of JFK assassination. NSAM 273. Pentagon Paper written in 68. History not told truthfully told. Les Gelb , NYT. Edited April 29, 2018 by Michael Clark Restored broken link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Nall Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 very good. thank you for this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) On 2/26/2017 at 10:55 AM, Glenn Nall said: very good. thank you for this... Glenn, I am glad you liked it. It is good to hear it from the horse's mouth. I would not have come away from this with the same, and so thorough, an understanding had I read it. I read of people questioningn Prouty's reliability. I now discount those opinions. I especially, now, have more faith in his identification of Landsdale in Dealy Plaza in the tramp photos. Cheers, Michael Edited March 1, 2017 by Michael Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Wow ... what an eye opener. That close up of Gerald Posner's book "Case Closed" on Prouty's shelf when Prouty begins to express his view of the horrible proliferation of so many misleading and misinformed history books is wincing. Posner ... the historical hatchet job poster boy. Egads, what an embarrassing legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Nall Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) Speaking of hatchet jobs, if you guys haven't read Mark Lane's last book Last Word, My Indictment of the CIA in the Murder of JFK (2011) you should - it's a real (documented) eye opener into the way the CIA has 'hatcheted' the media - print and TV - since the assassination. Posner is far from the worst propagandist. Edited February 26, 2017 by Glenn Nall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Walton Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 A good post. I've posted the video on Ken Burns's Facebook page, reminding him to mention this in upcoming series on Vietnam. We shall see if he includes it or not, or basically saying Kennedy started it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 One thing I would like to verify is if McGeorge Bundy can be fairly blamed for the call to not hit the last three Cuban jets until an airstrip was captured. Is he a fall guy for JFK? Would he or could he have made that call on a critical departure from the plan? Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Nall Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 38 minutes ago, Michael Clark said: One thing I would like to verify is if McGeorge Bundy can be fairly blamed for the call to not hit the last three Cuban jets until an airstrip was captured. Is he a fall guy for JFK? Would he or could he have made that call on a critical departure from the plan? Cheers, Michael I remember reading about 30 years ago somewhere in which Prouty stated something to the effect that Kennedy was not at fault (or didn't order its cancellation, or whatever) for the cancellation of the air strikes -- for which he took the blame and for which pretty much everyone else happily let him have it. (In this same piece, whatever it was I read, Prouty was describing an island in the Pacific where all the Korean "War" surplus was staged - in the mid-fifties, right? - "in preparation for Viet Nam.") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 2 minutes ago, Glenn Nall said: I remember reading about 30 years ago somewhere in which Prouty stated something to the effect that Kennedy was not at fault (or didn't order its cancellation, or whatever) for the cancellation of the air strikes -- for which he took the blame and for which pretty much everyone else happily let him have it. (In this same piece, whatever it was I read, Prouty was describing an island in the Pacific where all the Korean "War" surplus was staged - in the mid-fifties, right? - "in preparation for Viet Nam.") Glenn, Prouty mentions both of those things in the posted video. In terms of blaming Bundy for that critical call to not hit the last three Cuban jets, I am looking for other sources that can substantiate Bundy's authority, autonomy and responsibility for that call, apart from Prouty. Interestingly, Prouty's video has some tantalizing info on the Honolulu conference;' just enough to make you want more. I am just now reading about Bundy's very suspect part in processing the Presidential directives that called for deescalation of the war and then the reescalation of the war prior to, and after the assassination, respectively. (these directives are called NSAM's. I didn't want to throw around this nomenclature in my paragraph above because I am thoroughly unfamiliar with it all. I don't want to come-off otherwise. I am digging in now) Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger DeLaria Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Nall Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, Michael Clark said: Glenn, Prouty mentions both of those things in the posted video. In terms of blaming Bundy for that critical call to not hit the last three Cuban jets, I am looking for other sources that can substantiate Bundy's authority, autonomy and responsibility for that call, apart from Prouty. Interestingly, Prouty's video has some tantalizing info on the Honolulu conference;' just enough to make you want more. I am just now reading about Bundy's very suspect part in processing the Presidential directives that called for deescalation of the war and then the reescalation of the war prior to, and after the assassination, respectively. (these directives are called NSAM's. I didn't want to throw around this nomenclature in my paragraph above because I am thoroughly unfamiliar with it all. I don't want to come-off otherwise. I am digging in now) Cheers, Michael Come to think of it, R Bartholomew puts Bundy in a fairly dark shadow, too, which was the first I'd heard this about him; but it's a pretty bleak image of the guy - his closeness with Dulles and other WH ne'er-do-wells - redundancy not intended - etc... Read Bartholomew's piece in the "Possible Discovery of an Automobile..." - oh hell, you know what? acorn.net where it was posted was taken down. It's hard to find the complete copy (it's an essay that rivals War and Peace in length - RB calls it - hell i forgot what he calls it - i shouldn't have had those last 4or beers at luhcn.) I need to post it somewhere. Like in a JFK asasni - asnasstn - Murder forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 I noted that Landsdale's name was stepped-on, so to speak, by a glitch in the audio of the first video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) Fletcher is not correct on Bundy's culpability. What Bundy was doing was in reply to the CIA's attempts to get a D Day air strike which Kennedy had taken out of the plan once it was transferred to its new location at the Bay of Pigs. And the CIA acknowledged this change in their own documents (Destiny Betrayed, Second Edition, p. 45) There has been much debate about this on this site. And Greg Burnham, Larry Hancock and myself all rely on the newest documents and we all agree that that is what happened. Fletcher was not aware of these at the time he said this. Edited February 27, 2017 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Nall Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Just now, James DiEugenio said: Fletcher is not correct on Bundy's culpability. What Bundy was doing was in reply to the CIA's attempts to get a D Day air strike which Kennedy had taken out of the plan once it was transferred to its new location at the Bay of Pigs. And the CIA acknowledged this change inter own documents (Destiny Betrayed, Second Edition, p. 45) There has been much debate about this on this site. And Greg Burnham, Larry Hancock and myself all rely on the newest documents and we all agree that that is what happened. Fletcher was not aware of these at the time he said this. right. that video was 1998? and as long as Larry agrees with this, then I'll consider its possibility, too. interesting to say that Fletcher (first name basis, James?) was not aware of something rings as about as ironic as anything i've read in this forum. including most things said by DVP and Paul Trejo... and speaking of authoritative voice, though Mr Trejo's overuse of "IMHO" grates, I appreciate his acknowledgment of humility. Wonder if it might have fit in with some sentence similar to "Fletcher Prouty was wrong...". just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 11 minutes ago, Glenn Nall said: right. that video was 1998? ---------------------- just sayin'. I want to say 1992??? I think JFK, the movie, just came out. Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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