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George Sawtelle

The first conspiracy theorist

33 posts in this topic

There were many people in the US who thought that Oswald was railroaded or was part of a team that shot the president but nothing about conspiracy came out until Oswald was killed.

When Oswald said ... I´m just a patsy ... he was actually saying that he was part of a conspiracy. Therefore he could be considered the first conspiracy theorist.

Actually the words, I´m just a patsy, sealed his fate. He had to be killed because he was about to crack.

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George - there could be other reasons why Oswald used the word patsy - for instance that he was part of a US intelligence gathering operation that put him close to the center of the action.

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The first conspiracy theorist was RFK.

Anyone who reads Talbot's book Brothers should realize that.

Oswald was not a theorist, he was a victim.  And his attempted call to John Hurt sealed that fate.

Edited by James DiEugenio

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Jim - 

Wouldn't Oswald have been a victim even if he hadn't tried to reach John Hurt? 

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That is probably correct,  but I think that call hurried  it all up.

And that is what Marchetti said also.

Edited by James DiEugenio

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Paul

He wasn´t asked ... are you part of an intelligence operation ... a reporter said he was accused of killing the president.

IOWs, he said he was a patsy after being accused of being an assassin. There is a lot of space between an assassin and an intelligence agent, especially an assassin of the president of the United States.

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Jim

Ruby was seen in the corridor where Oswald was moved from office to office I guess for interrogation. He was seen at the press conference where Oswald found out he was formally accused of killing Kennedy. Ruby was there to let Oswald know that he was being watched and to keep his mouth shut. The stalking occurred before the North Carolina call and before he said he was a patsy.

I´m sure the plotters would not want for Oswald to see the inside of a courtroom. Eventually he would have to be killed. However I doubt they wanted to waste a man to kill him immediately.

Threats had been received by the DPD that Oswald would be killed at any time. Because of the threats he was to be moved on a Saturday to another jail since the other jail had better security and on Sunday he was moved at a different hour than was publisized. So the threats were taken seriously. 

Oswald saying he was part of a conspiracy was extremely troubling to the plotters. It would warrant wasting a man. The wasted man was Ruby.

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20 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

The first conspiracy theorist was RFK.

Anyone who reads Talbot's book Brothers should realize that.

Oswald was not a theorist, he was a victim.  And his attempted call to John Hurt sealed that fate.

Oswald was the first conspiracy factualist.  "I'm just a patsy!" sure wasn't a theory to Oswald.

Chronologically, RFK was the first conspiracy theorist, followed by the JFK autopsy doctors, Gary Underhill, and Vincent Salandria and his brother-in-law Harold Feldman.

From Brothers, David Talbot, pg 6:

(quote on)

Bobby's phone call to Langley on the afternoon of November 22 was a stunning outburst.  Getting a ranking official on the phone -- whose identity is still unknown -- Kennedy confronted him in a voice vibrating with fury and pain.  "Did your outfit have anything to do with this horror?" Kennedy erupted.  Whatever the anonymous CIA official told Bobby that afternoon, it did not put his suspicions about the agency to rest.

(quote off)

The Prosector's Scenario:

From autopsy-attendee FBI SA Francis O’Neill’s sworn affidavit for the HSCA:

<quote on>

Some discussion did occur concerning the disintegration of the bullet. A general

feeling existed that a soft-nosed bullet struck JFK. There was discussion concerning

the back wound that the bullet could have been a "plastic" type or an "Ice" [sic]

bullet, one which dissolves after contact.

<quote off>

From autopsy-attendee FBI SA James Sibert's sworn affidavit for the HSCA:

(quote on)

The doctors also discussed a possible deflection of the bullet in the body caused

by striking bone. Consideration was also given to a type of bullet  which fragments

completely....Following discussion among the doctors relating to the back injury, I

left the autopsy room to call the FBI  Laboratory and spoke with Agent Chuch [sic]

Killion. I asked if he could furnish any information regarding a type of bullet that

would almost completely fragmentize (sic).

(quote off)

https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/vol1/pdf/ChurchV1_6_Senseney.pdf

The Gary Underhill Scenario:

From Larry Hancock's Someone Would Have Talked, pg 496:

(quote on)

[Former CIA employee Gary] Underhill's concern was that he had become aware of a "clique" within the CIA--a clique
dealing with weapons and gun-running and making money. These individuals had Far Eastern connections, narcotics was
mentioned, supposedly the clique was manipulating political intrigues to serve their own ends. Underhill believed
that these individuals had been involved with JFK's murder; he felt that JFK had become aware of their dealings and
was about to move against them in some fashion. He also believed that members of the clique knew that Underhill was
aware of their dealings and that his own life could well be in jeopardy.


(quote off)

The Salandria-Feldman Scenario:

From Notes on Lunch with Arlen Specter on January 4, 2012
by Vincent J. Salandria

https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/VJS010412.html

(quote on)

I explained [to Arlen Specter] that the day after the Kennedy assassination I met with my then brother-in-law, Harold Feldman. We decided that if Oswald was the killer, and if the U.S. government were innocent of any complicity in the assassination, Oswald would live through the weekend. But if he was killed, then we would know that the assassination was a consequence of a high level U.S. government plot.

Harold Feldman and I also concluded that if Oswald was killed by a Jew, it would indicate a high level WASP plot. We further decided that the killing of Oswald would signal that no government investigation could upturn the truth. In that event we as private citizens would have to investigate the assassination to arrive at the historical truth.

(quote off)

Edited by Cliff Varnell

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Cliff

According to the media and US government there are no conspiracy factualists. We are all conspiracy theorists.

The CIA DID NOT kill President Kennedy. That is the agency itself. He was killed by a group of people lead by an ex-CIA official with help by CIA officials not sanctioned by the CIA at the time of the assassination.

I agree with Vincent Salandria.

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3 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

Cliff

According to the media and US government there are no conspiracy factualists. We are all conspiracy theorists.

George

The corporate media and the US government are counter-factualist.

All it takes is a simple inspection of the physical evidence to observe the conspiratorial nature of JFK's murder -- the bullet holes in JFK's clothes are too low to account for the throat wound.

Drop the mic & everyone goes home.

50 years of JFK Pet Theorism studiously ignores the physical evidence -- the JFK Assassination Critical Community is as much a part of the JFK murder cover-up as the media and gov't.

3 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

The CIA DID NOT kill President Kennedy. That is the agency itself. He was killed by a group of people lead by an ex-CIA official with help by CIA officials not sanctioned by the CIA at the time of the assassination.

I don't know who killed Kennedy but the historical record indicates Persons of Interest who deserve hard scrutiny.

I suspect supra-institutional actors whose day jobs were beside the point, but all I can say as a fact is that JFK was murdered in a military-style ambush.

What I cannot buy is the claim that Allen Dulles set up family friends of his mistress as Oswald handlers.

Researchers -- puh-leeze!

3 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

I agree with Vincent Salandria.

Who were the highest ranking WASPs in the US government in 1963?

Averell Harriman and McGeorge Bundy -- the Skull & Bones crew.

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Cliff

I´m speaking from the perspective of the MSM when I use the term conspiracy theorist. You know the realm of the unreal. If the money is right I´ll write and print whatever you want me to print and write. Trump is right when he talks about fake news and the media but he doesn´t know or he lets on that he doesn´t know that the US government pays the media to fake the news.

I´m not as critical as you with regard to JFK researchers. There is a lot of good ones out there and the truth is coming out because of them.The US government coupled with the MSM is extremely powerful. They control everything that is printed. They have unlimited funds to bribe those who don´t initially fall into line. Every man has his price.

One doesn´t have to be in the military to understand the mechanics of an L-shaped ambush. All individuals who received combat training know how to set up an L-shaped ambush.

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True,  and this was explained to my by John McCarthy, former Special Forces soldier in Viet Nam.

Apparently it was a common technique used there and elsewhere.  And he told me also that on all of his operations, there would be an CIA official plugged in on or near the top.

So this technique had to be well known throughout the CIA also.  And if you allow for one sniper on the GK, one is the TSBD, and one in Dal Tex, its pretty much an overkill operation. 

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Jim

I would be very surprised if an L-shaped ambush was planned. But I could be wrong.

I think the shooters took their positions thinking of the best position to do their firing. It just so happened that it turned out to be a pretty good L-shaped ambush.

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You never heard of the FBI report of the sniper's practicing on the GK a day or two before?

That has been out there for awhile.

Quote

 

 

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On ‎2‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 8:45 PM, James DiEugenio said:

The first conspiracy theorist was RFK.

Anyone who reads Talbot's book Brothers should realize that.

Oswald was not a theorist, he was a victim.  And his attempted call to John Hurt sealed that fate.

I agree but I think the plan was to kill him before he was even jailed. Get rid of him immediately before he had a chance to make any statements.

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