Creating the Oswald Legend

[James DiEugenio]

That is interesting Steve.   ONI almost had to have been doing the same thing then I would presume.

[Steve Thomas]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

That is interesting Steve.   ONI almost had to have been doing the same thing then I would presume.

Jim,

 

This is just for your own curiosity:

 

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/ofstein.htm

Mr. OFSTEIN Well, when I went in the service I was interested in radio--I was a disc jockey at the time, and the closest thing my recruiting sergeant said that I could get to radio would be possibly with the Army security agency, so I signed up, and after basic training I went to Fort Devens, Mass., and was held there on a temporary status while the agency determined what type training I should have, and I was given a language ability test and passed that and had a choice of three languages to take, and Russian was my first choice and I was sent to Monterey to study.

Submitted by Walter Chisholm

http://www.fortdevensmuseum.org/ArmySecurityAgency.php

“Most enlistees who joined the Army when I did, did so for a period of three years and that was my intention, too. However, after taking the ordinary battery of tests given to new recruits, I and two others in my group were called aside and taken to a room to talk to another recruiter. He told us that our high scores on those tests qualified us to join an elite group of soldiers in the "Army Security Agency". Of course we had never heard of the ASA and when we asked questions he seemed quite evasive saying only that it was so secret that he couldn't tell us much about it, but he used the words "Top Secret" several times. Sounded very "cloak and dagger. He made a point that "you don't have much time to decide. If you accept, I have to get you on a plane to Fort Jackson SC where you will undergo basic training and then go on to your ASA schooling." We were at the induction station in Louisville KY and I had expected to go to basic just down the road at Fort Knox KY. At the time, I had never flown on a commercial airliner and the prospect of doing so, probably helped to sway my decision. Anyway, that and the way he didn't explain it, made it sound so intriguing that all three of us took the bait. Then he said "One more thing...because the ASA schooling is considerably more extensive than most other MOS's...many take from 6 to 12 months...the required period of enlistment is four years instead of the usual three". We all three thought about it for a moment, but it didn't deter us. We signed the paper and took the oath of enlistment”.

After basic at Fort Jackson, I arrived at Fort Devens in March of 1964. Upon arrival there everyone was first assigned to Charlie Company. Before anyone could start training, a complete background investigation had to be performed by the FBI. That sometimes took a few weeks. C-company was a holding company where you spent most of your time pulling KP, Police Call, or other such menial tasks while you waited for your security clearance to arrive. I was transferred to A-company during training”.

 

Steve Thomas

[James DiEugenio]

Steve:

That is really interesting.

It really does describe what a couple of Oswald's pals said happened to them and him, and why his odd habits about reading Russian newspapers and listening to Russian records did not disturb them.

Nice work.

[Steve Thomas]

5 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

It really does describe what a couple of Oswald's pals said happened to them and him, and why his odd habits about reading Russian newspapers and listening to Russian records did not disturb them.

I've read that Oswald was recruited into intelligence work while he was over in Japan.

 

My thought was, if he did get into intelligence, it started right off the bat, which would fit right in to what you just said, and he was in a holding pattern while they did a background security check, and he was brushing up on his language skills.

 

Steve Thomas

[David Josephs]

On 3/1/2017 at 9:10 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Let me ask again:  can someone post that photo of what is supposed to be Oswald at the trial of Gary Powers in the USSR?

Walt Brown thinks  it is him.  

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-the-Soviets-allow-Lee-Harvey-Oswald-to-attend-the-trial-of-Gary-Powers-as-travel-was-restricted-in-the-USSR

This seems to lay out a contradictory argument to Oswald actually attending the trial.

 

[James DiEugenio]

I read this David and the guy is clearly arguing from a position, a la Tracy Parnell. 

He actually says that if Oswald had been at the trial Powers would have mentioned it.  Without telling us: 1.) How would he have recognized him back then?  2.)  How could she have singled him out in that great hall where it took place?  I think Powers would have been preoccupied with his defense instead of gallery watching.

Anyway, I would still like for someone to post that picture.

[Larry Hancock]

I think this might give some good background for the Army Security Agency reference. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Security_Agency

Basically those were either intercept operators for electronic collections activities...which included linquists but there were other roles for signals intelligence and even secure equipment technicians. All had to have the clearances mentioned above.  For the Army it was more tactical with units embedded in the field (as an aside, it was ASA field intercepts which largely give lie to the second Gulf of Tonkin incident). The Air Force had a similar career field but those folks were assigned to more strategic collections, targeting major communications channels, primarily Russian military but with other teams targeting other foreign nations.  If you have read about Kirknewton, that would be one of the Air Force Operations.

[James DiEugenio]

"Bucknell told Mark Lane that during 1959, both he, Oswald and other Marines at El Toro Base were ordered to report to the military Criminal Investigation Division (CID).  There a civilian tried to recruit those present for an intelligence operation against Communists in Cuba.

Oswald was selected to make several more trips to CID and later told Bucknell that the civilian was the same man who had been his intelligence contact at Atsugi.  Some time later, Oswald confided to Bucknell that he was to be discharged from the Marines and go to Russia." (Crossfire, first edition, p. 110, italics added)  

Now let us hear from  Botelho, who later became a conservative judge, commenting after he heard the news Oswald had gone to Russia, as LHO told Bucknell he would:  "When nor real investigation about Oswald occurred at the base, I was sure that Oswald was on an intelligence assignment in Russia.... Two civilians dropped in at El Toro, asked a few questions, took no written statements, and recorded no interviews with witnesses.  It was the most casual of investigations.  It was a cover investigation, so that it could be said that there had been an investigation.....I knew then what I know now, Oswald was on an assignment in Russia for American intelligence." (ibid)

The italicized phrase would seem to corroborate Steve saying he thinks Oswald was recruited into navy intel at Atsugi.  To me, this is pretty strong stuff.  Goes to the heart of the matter.

[Steve Thomas]

8 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

I think this might give some good background for the Army Security Agency reference. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Security_Agency

Basically those were either intercept operators for electronic collections activities...which included linquists but there were other roles for signals intelligence and even secure equipment technicians. All had to have the clearances mentioned above.  For the Army it was more tactical with units embedded in the field (as an aside, it was ASA field intercepts which largely give lie to the second Gulf of Tonkin incident). The Air Force had a similar career field but those folks were assigned to more strategic collections, targeting major communications channels, primarily Russian military but with other teams targeting other foreign nations.  If you have read about Kirknewton, that would be one of the Air Force Operations.

Larry,

 

This is another good site:

https://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?https&&&www.usarmygermany.com/Units/ASA Europe/USAREUR_ASAE.htm

 

I have to take my hat off to those Reconnaissance Battalions. The Berlin Wall, Cuban Missile Crisis, Kennedy's assassination. That was some pretty scary times for those guys.

 

Steve Thomas

[Larry Hancock]

It was indeed!  I don't know that the Marines had a field signals group as the Army did but its possible. There is no doubt the Navy did as they operated a series of signals intel ships and also had containerized Sigint equipment that they could put on ships as small as destroyers.  That leads into the whole matter of the Tonkin Gulf incident where destroyers were making signals runs to monitor the covert sea attacks into North Vietnam...it was those totally deniable attacks which the NVN patrol boats were responding to in the Gulf.  Would be interesting to see if the Marines did have such a unit and if Oswald could have been a candidate.

[Steve Thomas]

9 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Larry,

 

This is another good site:

https://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?https&&&www.usarmygermany.com/Units/ASA Europe/USAREUR_ASAE.htm

 

I have to take my hat off to those Reconnaissance Battalions. The Berlin Wall, Cuban Missile Crisis, Kennedy's assassination. That was some pretty scary times for those guys.

 

Steve Thomas

Larry, or anyone,

 

Can you think of anything that might have been going on in December of 1960?

Larry Uloth, 180th ASA Co, 1960-63

https://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?https&&&www.usarmygermany.com/Units/ASA Europe/USAREUR_320thASABn.htm

" I was a morse intercept operator in Bad Aibling during this period. I was there for the Cuban crisis, the Berlin Wall and several other interesting times."

 

" In early 1960 two cryptos, Mitchell and Martin at NSA, defected and we waited for the other shoe to fall. Prior to this time we had them (the Russians) cold, we knew where they were, where they were going, what frequencies they were going to as well as what the new call signs would be. We knew their operators so well that they were like old friends. Then December 25th came and all the armies disappeared for several weeks. We heard nothing and were on operations lock down, no leaves, slept in the ops building, manning all radios 24/7.

This went on for some 30-60 days. When they gradually came back up it was all different -- we had to re-identify them all and were unable to follow them when they changed freq/cs just had to find them all over again. One army we lost for almost a year . . . and when I and another op found them, the folks at NSA didn't want to believe us. We got in quite a bit of travel because we would ID them without permission. But eventually they came reluctantly around to our way of thinking.

Things were calm until August 13, 1961 when the Berlin Wall went up. While that was scary and interesting it was not as bad as December 1960."

 

"The worst time was in October of 1962 when JFK and Khrushchev went eye to eye over the Cuban missles. Again we were in ops lockdown, but this time all of our families were set up ready to leave and head west, while we were ready to head east. We really thought that the balloon was going to burst and we would have the next war."

 

"Then the President was assassinated in November of 1963, but by this time both us and the russians were smart enough to take it easy."

 

Steve Thomas

 

[Steve Thomas]

2 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Larry, or anyone,

 

Can you think of anything that might have been going on in December of 1960?

Larry Uloth, 180th ASA Co, 1960-63

https://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?https&&&www.usarmygermany.com/Units/ASA Europe/USAREUR_320thASABn.htm

" I was a morse intercept operator in Bad Aibling during this period. I was there for the Cuban crisis, the Berlin Wall and several other interesting times."

Steve Thomas

 

Sorry,

 

I jumped the gun before I read the next blog entry:

 

Email from Brooke Anderson, 180th ASA Co, Bad Aibling, 1960-61)

"Just found your web site and read it with great interest. Thanks for your major effort to bring this history to some sense of order. I was stationed at Bad Aibling, 320th USASA Bn, and a member of the 180th Co. I read Larry Uloth's comments on the 180th, and wanted to add some additional details. The Martin and Mitchell thing was really big, particularly after their Moscow news conference, in which they really outlined everything we were doing, and by name. It was quiet, but as Larry says, it finally got noisy again. Later on, while looking through the magazines at the Snack Bar, I found one entitled "Two-Fisted Tales" or some such macho title, but one article on the front cover grabbed my attention. It was about the ASA, "...the 8,000 hand-picked men whose existence the Pentagon refuses to admit." In it, Martin and Mitchell's conference was reported verbatim, so as we practiced daily security in our jobs and lives, the information we protected could be bought by anybody on base for 50 cents!"   I read in another place that over 200 GI's were kidnapped in this time period.   Steve Thomas

[Alistair Briggs]

On 04/03/2017 at 5:40 AM, James DiEugenio said:

Goes to the heart of the matter.

James, just wanted to take this opportunity to ask you a quick question; I was just wondering if you had ever read the book John Lennon & The FBI Files by Phil Strongman & Alan Parker?

Has a couple of very interesting chapters about the JFK assassination and touches upon the 'two Oswald's', and also tries to make links between the killings of JFK, RFK, MLK and Lennon and even gives you a name-check as a respected American assassination expert.

Regards

[Paul Brancato]

I never heard of that book, but I will try to get a copy. Thanks for mentioning it. Whenever I go into a rant about the assassinations that changed our recent history I always include John Lennon. I always ask myself, especially now - what would John say? The absence of his voice still hurts.