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Alistair Briggs

The Discharge Of Lee Harvey Oswald And Other Related Issues

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List of the books Oswald borrowed from the New Orleans Public Library, Napoleon Branch.

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1141&search=library_book#relPageId=959&tab=page

Quote

5/22/63   Portrait Of A Revolutionary by Mao Tse-Tung
6/1/63    The Huey Long Murder Case by Hermann B. Deutsch        
6/1/63   The Berlin Wall by Dean & David Heller     
6/17/63  Soviet Potentials by George B. Cressey    
6/17/63  What we Must Know About Communism by Henry Bonero Overstreet  
6/17/63  This Is My Philosophy by Whit Burnett
7/1/63    Portrait Of A President  by John F. Kennedy
7/10/63  Russia Under Krushchev by Alexander North
7/30/63  The Hittite by Noel B. Gerson
9/9/63    The Bridge Over The River Kwai by Pierre Boulle
9/9/63    Goldfinger by Ian Fleming
6/24/63   Thunderball by Ian Fleming
9/19/63   Moonraker by Ian Fleming
8/22/63   From Russia With Love by Ian Fleming
9/19/63   Ape And Essence by Aldous Huxley
9/19/63   Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
8/22/63   The Sixth Galaxy Reader by H. L. Gold
8/22/63   Portals OF Tomorrow  by August Derleth
7/30/63   Mind Partner by H. L. Gold
7/18/63   Five Spy Novels by Howard Haycraft
9/9/63    Big Book Of Science Fiction by Groft Conklin
7/10/63  The Hugo Winners by Isaac Asimov
8/8/63    The Worlds Of Clifford Simak by Clifford Simak
8/5/63   The Expert Dreamers by Frederick Pohl
7/31/63  Nine Tomorrows by Isaac Asimov
8/12/63  The Treasury of Science Fiction Classics by Harold Kuebler
7/31/63  Everyday Life in Ancient Rome by F. R. Cowell
7/15/63  The Blue Nile by Alan Moorehead
7/6/63   One Day In The Life Of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn
9/9/63   Ben Hur by Lewis Wallace
7/15/63  Profiles In Courage by John F.. Kennedy
6/28/63  A Fall Of Moondust by A. C. Clarke
7/6/63   Hornblower And The Hotspur by C. S. Forester
6/12/ 63 Conflict by Robert Leckie

 

 

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Alistair Briggs said:

...Oswald was...certainly well read.  The list of books he borrowed from the library in New Orleans is quite impressive....

He was certainly familiar with Hemingway of course -- he mentions him in the letter he wrote to John Connally.

Regards

Alistair,

In her WC testimony, LHO's cousin Marilyn Murrett said that LHO "would read Encyclopedias the way other people read novels."

This was probably related to the fact that LHO was a latch-key kid from ages 8-14.   LHO brothers dropped out of high school to work, and his mother and brothers would work day and night, and LHO was the only one who continued to go to school.  His mother demanded that LHO come home  from school alone, lock the door and wait for them.  

They would all get home after dark.   LHO filled the void with book after book after book...

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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6 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

This was probably related to the fact that LHO was a latch-key kid from ages 8-14.   LHO brothers dropped out of high school to work, and his mother and brothers would work day and night, and LHO was the only one who continued to go to school.  His mother demanded that LHO come home  from school alone, lock the door and wait for them.  

They would all get home after dark.   LHO filled the void with book after book after book...

With all the moving of houses, and all the changes of school, and with him being a 'latch-key kid', throughout his youth it would no doubt have been difficult to put down 'roots'. All things considered it seems he had an 'abnormal' upbringing, one that would make him more isolated from the world. That's not to say he was a 'loner' of course, but I do think it would have caused him to be somewhat 'introverted'. With all the reading that he did he would certainy become 'well-read' and that would help his 'intelligence' and yet the 'isolation' that he had could mean that he had a certain difficulty when it came to 'sociability'...

6 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

In her WC testimony, LHO's cousin Marilyn Murrett said that LHO "would read Encyclopedias the way other people read novels."

The WC testimony of Marilyn Murrett is very impressive with regards to Lee, and quite telling towards the kind of person he was. She talks about him being "just like anybody else" but also "very reserved", liking to be by himself, liking to read, liking nature. She also mentions him being very quite and not having many friends but also mentions that he wasn't the belligerent type. She also mentions times when the other children 'made fun of him' - that Lee's manners may have 'irritated' some of them - that Lee had a 'very erect carriage'. It is also of interest to note that she mentions that Lee 'didn't have the money to keep up with' (the other children), that was how his Mother reared him; that he could 'live within himself'. She also makes mentions of Lee being much more intelligent than his grades indicated.

*Marilyn Murret's WC testimony is quite a fascinating read indeed.

The more I read about Lee's childhood the more 'pity' I feel for him. I wonder how different his life would have been had he been much more settled in his formative years.

Very interested to hear your thoughts on Lee's personality as a child, especially in the time between his Mother's divorce from Ekdahl and the time he joined the Marines.

Regards

 

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Posted (edited)

18 hours ago, Alistair Briggs said:

With all the moving of houses, and all the changes of school, and with him being a 'latch-key kid', throughout his youth it would no doubt have been difficult to put down 'roots'. All things considered it seems he had an 'abnormal' upbringing, one that would make him more isolated from the world. That's not to say he was a 'loner' of course, but I do think it would have caused him to be somewhat 'introverted'. With all the reading that he did he would certainly become 'well-read' and that would help his 'intelligence' and yet the 'isolation' that he had could mean that he had a certain difficulty when it came to 'sociability'...

Very interested to hear your thoughts on Lee's personality as a child, especially in the time between his Mother's divorce from Ekdahl and the time he joined the Marines.

Regards

Alistair,

The data that I have seen make it utterly plain that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) was never a loner.

Let us begin with his late Marine period at the California Marina Base, El Toro.  We have testimony from Nelson Delgado and Kerry Thornley, for example, that show LHO was willing to jump into conversations about philosophy, religion and politics.   It was his favorite pasttime.

What LHO disliked -- and he showed it -- was merely wasting time with superficial conversations and activities.

There was one time that LHO was persuaded to go out with the guys to Tijuana on a weekend pass.   He did -- and he even bought a Mexican call girl for the night, suggets Nelson Delgado -- but then LHO never went out to Tijuana with the guys again.

Instead, in early 1959 LHO spent almost all of his time at the El Toro Marine Base there near Santa Ana, California, studying Spanish with Nelson Delgado, and later studying Russian alone. 

LHO didn't study Russian alone because he was a loner, but because there was nobody around with whom to study Russian.   Kerry Thornley was respected by LHO as an intellectual -- but Thornley didn't want the labor of studying Russian.   Thornely did say, IIRC, that LHO studied Russian on his own using two methods: (1) Berlitz language books and records; and (2) Russian newspapers.

LHO's military superiors did know about Lee's reading of Russian newspapers, but they didn't worry in the slightest that LHO might be a Communist.  Russian language does not make somebody a Communist.

Nelson Delgado did say that when he first met LHO in late 1958, that they were both enthusiastic about Fidel Castro's Revolution in Cuba.  Heck, all Americans in 1958 were enthusiastic about Fidel Castro.   This includes American icons such as Ed Sullivan and Ernest Hemmingway, as well as a few who would become famous later, like Frank Sturgis, Gerry Patrick Hemming, Harry Dean and Loran Hall.  

Of course, they would all turn their backs on Fidel in 1961 when he showed his Communist colors -- but before then many Americans supported Fidel Castro.   So, the Marine commanders were not concerned that LHO said he liked Fidel Castro in 1958-1959, or that LHO read Russian newspapers on base.

Then -- in late 1959, LHO moved to the USSR.  We have many photographs of LHO in the USSR -- and everywhere he is surrounded by people.  He had friends by the dozen -- including lots of girl friends, as you ably noted, Alistrair.   One may argue that LHO was at the peak of his social form in the USSR, because he did not have to compete for economic position in the USSR, as we do in the USA.

Then, IMHO, at the incessant urging of Marina Oswald LHO returned to the USA.

Although LHO was uncomfortable with his own family (e.g. the three brothers held Thanksgiving in Fort Worth in 1962, but they refused to invite their own mother, who lived only down the street), and although LHO hated the Russian Expatriates whom he felt were always flirting with Marina and showing her with gifts that he could not afford -- this does not prove that LHO was a "loner."  

When LHO worked at Leslie welding, his working companions were uneducated laborers making small salaries who could hardly read at all.  He simply had nothing to talk about with them.  When LHO worked at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, he was on probation for three months, so he was kept at arms length, but LHO did make a sort of friendship with his immediate co-worker, Dennis Ofstein, who showed LHO a lot about photography, and they also shared Russian literature in common, because Dennis was also interested in it.

Then LHO was let go from Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall because he failed to meet their probation standards. 

But the best data we have about LHO in 1963 still comes from Jim Garrison, who uncovered what the FBI and the Warren Commission never wanted uncovered -- namely, LHO's vast social network at 544 Camp Street.   Although Jim Garrision did not fully grasp the nature of that coven, it was, IMHO, fully unveiled by Dr. Jeff Caufield's superb book, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: the Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015). 

It is important to note that LHO did not tell Marina Oswald about his political contacts.  He never wanted her to know.  Ruth Paine, also, had no clue about them.  The paradox is that the two WC witnesses who testified far more than any others: Marina Oswald and Ruth Paine -- knew the least about LHO's political activities.  Well, that's what the FBI and the WC wanted.

LHO was a political chameleon.   He was profoundly social.  He liked people who read widely, and he was cold to people who rarely read.  That's a fair assessment of his personality, IMHO.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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Paul, you make mention to his later time in the Marines and afterwards; for the moment I am concentrating on his childhood up to the point of joining the Marines. (for now I'm on the New York part of his childhood). I will in the not too distant future address the afterwards, and you have raised some very interesting points indeed...

15 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

The data that I have seen make it utterly plain that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) was never a loner.

One thing about the use of the word 'loner' is that it can carry a negative connotation.

Earlier, when I was discussing his upbringing (to the point of joining the Marines) I tried to 'pre-empt' the 'negative connotations' ...

On 04/03/2017 at 10:07 AM, Alistair Briggs said:

With all the moving of houses, and all the changes of school, and with him being a 'latch-key kid', throughout his youth it would no doubt have been difficult to put down 'roots'. All things considered it seems he had an 'abnormal' upbringing, one that would make him more isolated from the world. That's not to say he was a 'loner' of course, but I do think it would have caused him to be somewhat 'introverted'. With all the reading that he did he would certainy become 'well-read' and that would help his 'intelligence' and yet the 'isolation' that he had could mean that he had a certain difficulty when it came to 'sociability'...

I don't think Oswald was a loner throughout his childhood but I do think that circumstances would have left him on the 'outskirts' and that he would have felt a great deal of isolation because of it... by any measurable standards his childhood was certainly abnormal. There would have been a lot of 'internal conflict' going on - he would see other families, he would see other people, and how they interacted with each other, and compared to his own life he would have known that it was different. His compassion would shine through sometimes ('looking after' a neighbours dog') but other times his frustration would manifest itself ('threatening' his brother's wife with a pocket knife and striking his own mother*)

(* that incident is related in the testimony of John Pic as quoted below)

Quote

Mr. PIC - At about the same time that Lee was enrolled in school that we had the big trouble. It seems that there was an argument about the TV set one day, and--between my wife and my mother. It seems that according to my wife's statement that my mother antagonized Lee, being very hostile toward my wife and he pulled out a pocketknife and said that if she made any attempt to do anything about it that he would use it on her, at the same time Lee struck his mother. This perturbed my wife to no end. So, I came home that night, and the facts were related to me.
Mr. JENNER - When the facts were related to you was your mother present, Lee present, your wife present? If not, who was present?
Mr. PIC - I think my wife told me this in private, sir. I went and asked my mother about it.
Mr. JENNER - Your mother was home?
Mr. PIC - Yes, sir; she was home.
Mr. JENNER - You went and spoke with your mother?
Mr. PIC - Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER - Was Lee present when you spoke to your mother?
Mr. PIC - No, sir.
Mr. JENNER - What did you say to your mother and what did she say to you?
Mr. PIC - I asked her about the incident and she attempted to brush it off as not being as serious as my wife put it. That Lee did not pull a pocketknife on her. That they just had a little argument about what TV channel they were going to watch. Being as prejudiced as I am I rather believed my wife rather than my mother.

It was at about the same time that Oswald was evaluated by a psychologist who found him to be above average intelligence but with a passive-agressive personality, that he had a level of frustration and hostility towards his Mother and may have been quite 'disturbed' because of emotional isolation and that he may have suffered from 'delusions of grandeur' and had a certain 'detachment' from reality.

All things considered, I can't in all honesty say that I disagree with such an evaluation. However, such an evaluation could probably be made of a good number of 'troubled teens' and they can quite easily 'grow out of it' as they mature, there will always be those that don't alas. With regards to Oswald though, it has to be remebered that at this time he was very much in his formative years...

Here are some lyrics from a Meatloaf song that I though were a bit apt;

Quote

They got a file on me and it's a mile long and they say that they got all of the proof,
that I'm just another case of arrested development and just another wasted youth
They say that I'm in need of some radical discipline, they say I gotta face the truth,
that I'm just another case of arrested development and just another wasted youth

They say I'm wild and I'm reckless
I should be acting my age
I'm an impressionable child in a tumultuous world,
and they say I'm at a difficult stage

...The time he spents in New York (August 52 to January 54) was a very 'tumultuous' time in his life (well, what part of his childhood wasn't. lol), again he moves places often, and his schooling was, well, how shall I put this... 'interrupted' somewhat!

*I just can't help thinking that if Oswald had a 'father' figure throughout his childhood then things could have been oh so different...

... and on that note...

...I would say that he would no doubt have 'looked up' to the position of his two brothers and would have liked to emulate their position, and I think that is borne out by what happens in the next couple of years.
(I will address that soon.)

Regards

 

 

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, Alistair Briggs said:

...I don't think Oswald was a loner throughout his childhood but I do think that circumstances would have left him on the 'outskirts' and that he would have felt a great deal of isolation because of it... by any measurable standards his childhood was certainly abnormal...His compassion would shine through sometimes ('looking after' a neighbors dog') but other times his frustration would manifest itself ('threatening' his brother's wife with a pocket knife and striking his own mother*)

...It was at about the same time that Oswald was evaluated by a psychologist who found him to be above average intelligence but with a passive-aggressive personality, that he had a level of frustration and hostility towards his Mother and may have been quite 'disturbed' because of emotional isolation and that he may have suffered from 'delusions of grandeur' and had a certain 'detachment' from reality.

All things considered, I can't in all honesty say that I disagree with such an evaluation. However, such an evaluation could probably be made of a good number of 'troubled teens' and they can quite easily 'grow out of it' as they mature, there will always be those that don't alas. With regards to Oswald though, it has to be remembered that at this time he was very much in his formative years...

...The time he spent in New York (August 52 to January 54) was a very 'tumultuous' time in his life (well, what part of his childhood wasn't. lol), again he moves places often, and his schooling was, well, how shall I put this... 'interrupted' somewhat!

*I just can't help thinking that if Oswald had a 'father' figure throughout his childhood then things could have been oh so different...

... and on that note...

...I would say that he would no doubt have 'looked up' to the position of his two brothers and would have liked to emulate their position, and I think that is borne out by what happens in the next couple of years.
(I will address that soon.)

Regards

Alistair,

I know many good folks who grew up without a father figure in the home -- and they are happy and productive members of society, with lots of friends and happy chappy.   It's not mandatory.

Rather -- Lee's childhood had far more problems than the father figure issue.  

Let's go back to that psychiatrist report, for a moment.  Lee's mother didn't believe in psychiatry or in State interference in the family -- but I found that psychiatrist report to be interesting.  Here are some extracts from that WC testimony of doctor Renatus Hartogs:

"...Passive-aggressive tendencies are the least common of the three personality traits – a passive, or aggressive, or passive-aggressive child. The passive-aggressive one is the least common..."
 
"Passive-aggressive tendencies indicate a passive, retiring surface facade, under which the child hides considerable hostile tendencies toward others.  Usually in a passive-aggressive individual the aggressiveness can be triggered in stress situations...so that the passive surface facade all of a sudden explodes...

"I said here that his fantasy life revolved around topics of omnipotence and power.  When he was asked if he prefers the company of boys or girls, he said, "I dislike everybody," which is interesting to a psychiatrist... 

"By the way...a personality pattern disturbance is one which has been existing since early childhood.  It is not the result of recent conditioning...
 
"I think the root was (1) the lack of a father figure; (2) the lack of a real family life; and (3) neglect by a self- involved mother – these would be the three factors of early childhood...

"Lee showed a low degree of self-evaluation and self-esteem, mainly due to feelings of general inadequacy and emotional discouragement.  Here are some excerpts from my report...

"…His mother’s occupation makes it impossible for her to provide adequate supervision of Lee Oswald, to make him attend school regularly...

"Lee is intensely dissatisfied with his life, but feels that to avoid depression he must deny to himself competition with other children, or expressing his needs and wants...

"Lee says he can get very angry at his mother and has hit her.  He feels that his mother rejects him and never really cared very much for him...

"His brothers live on their own, without showing brotherly interest in him...

"Lee has a vivid fantasy life, turning around the topics of omnipotence and power, to compensate for his present frustrations...

"His mother…does not understand that Lee's withdrawal is a form of violent but silent protest against his neglect by her.” 

The reason that Lee saw this psychiatrist was because at 13 years of age, in New York City, he was sent to the Youth House because he had played hooky from school 45 days in a row.   He spent much of his time in the New York Public Library, and much time at the New York Museums of Fine Art and Natural Science.  

One might argue that Lee was a "loner" during that 45 day period, because he did not join a gang or other street-youth or engage in any crimes.  Yet this tends to confirm my claim that LHO liked people who liked books, and he was cold to people who didn't value reading as a cultural value.   

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

DUPLICATE

 

Edited by Paul Trejo

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12 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

I know many good folks who grew up without a father figure in the home -- and they are happy and productive members of society, with lots of friends and happy chappy.   It's not mandatory.

Rather -- Lee's childhood had far more problems than the father figure issue. 

I agree that there were more problems than that.

It's an acumulation of things. One point of interest may be to compare Lee to his two older brothers and especially to the time the two older brothers spent away from their Mother and Lee and correlate that to the times they were back and what else was going on at that time... when I have the time I will knock something up about it and see where it leads - I reckon it will show how much more unsettled Lee was in comparison to his two brothers...

12 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

 One might argue that Lee was a "loner" during that 45 day period, because he did not join a gang or other street-youth or engage in any crimes. 

I think you might be overplaying the negative there! I reckon that his circumstances meant that he would have an 'inability' to join in with 'good' things also. To highlight what I am meaning here is a part from the WC testimony of Marilyn Murrett;

Quote

I think he wanted to play ball, or other things, but he didn't have the money--it could have been other things. I just don't know. I mean he wanted to play ball, and he didn't have the money to buy the equipment, and this is a long time ago, I am telling you, and I can't remember whether my brothers or somebody gave him some equipment, and he was very appreciative, very thankful, you know. And I mean I guess he couldn't do what the other children did, because he couldn't afford it. I mean he was interested in sports at that time, and he did like others, but I mean he was more reserved than the average person; but he wasn't--I guess he was interested in some of the same things like that, but I mean he wasn't a giddy child, is what I mean.

Again though it's an accumulation of things

12 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

 Yet this tends to confirm my claim that LHO liked people who liked books, and he was cold to people who didn't value reading as a cultural value.  

I don't disagree. After all 'birds of a feather flock together'... there is the caveat though that up to this point in his life (because of all the movings of houses and schools) he wouldn't have had much chance to ingratiate himself to other people - not to the same extent anyway that other children (who has spent years and years at school together) would have...

... moving forward to the time he moved to New Orleans (January 1954), apart from all the moving around, there are a few things that happen that are of real interest. Example, Lee scores well in achievement tests for reading and vocabulary, he also puts down his future career as 'Military'. By the time Summer of 1955 comes around Robert comes to visit them, not long after Lee joins the Civil Air Patrol and then by October he tries to enlist in the Marines (but is denied). I reckon there is some correlation between Robert's visit and what Lee then did... I can imagine that Robert would have regaled him with stories of his time in the Marines and that would have appealed to Lee on many levels. Also he would no doubt have heard stories from John too about his time in the Marine Corps Reserve and his time in the Coast Guards and that too would have appealed to Lee on many levels. I can imagine that Lee would have thought joining the Marines would be a salvation of sorts, inasmuch as he would be in a more 'settled' position where his 'difference's' wouldn't be a problem and where he may well find 'kindred spirits'...

 

 

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7 hours ago, Alistair Briggs said:

I agree that there were more problems than that.

It's an acumulation of things. One point of interest may be to compare Lee to his two older brothers and especially to the time the two older brothers spent away from their Mother and Lee and correlate that to the times they were back and what else was going on at that time... when I have the time I will knock something up about it and see where it leads - I reckon it will show how much more unsettled Lee was in comparison to his two brothers...

Again though it's an accumulation of things..

Alistair,

Yes, an accumulation of things, indeed.   Psychiatrist Renatus Hartogs said that Lee suffered from three setbacks as a child, namely:

> "I think the root was (1) the lack of a father figure; (2) the lack of a real family life; and
> (3) neglect by a self-involved mother – these would be the three factors of early childhood."

It seems to me that the main problem occurred when Marguerite married Mr. Ekdahl, because from ages 5 to 7, the two older boys went to military school, while Lee was allowed to (1) tag along with mother; and (2) go to fine hotels and resorts with Mr. Ekdahl.

The two older brothers, John and Robert, liked Mr. Ekdahl because he was generous.  When they did get together for summers, they would also stay at nice resorts.  So, they knew what they were missing the rest of the year, and what Lee was enjoying without them.  I think there was a little resentment that arose during that period.

Then, after Marguerite divorced Mr. Ekdahl, he had nothing further to do with any of the boys.  Lee was the most set back by this divorce.  From relative wealth, Lee fell back into relative poverty.  The two boys stayed in military school for awhile.

Then, Marguerite pulled the boys out of military school because she needed the money.  They both dropped out of high school, got jobs, and gave most of their money to Marguerite.  Again, young Lee Harvey Oswald was spared this burden, because he was still in grade school.   I think the two older boys may have resented this, too.  

Not Lee's fault, but Lee did not have to hand over his hard-earned money to mother.  By the way, both of the boys testified that they worked from dawn till dark every day.  Counting the bus ride to and from work, they estimated about 12 hours a day.   This was why Lee was a latch-key kid, and why he turned to reading books to fill the void in his life.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, Alistair Briggs said:

... Moving forward to the time he moved to New Orleans (January 1954), apart from all the moving around, there are a few things that happen that are of real interest.

Example, Lee scores well in achievement tests for reading and vocabulary, he also puts down his future career as 'Military'.

By the time Summer of 1955 comes around Robert comes to visit them, not long after Lee joins the Civil Air Patrol and then by October he tries to enlist in the Marines (but is denied). I reckon there is some correlation between Robert's visit and what Lee then did...I can imagine that Robert would have regaled him with stories of his time in the Marines and that would have appealed to Lee on many levels.

Also he would no doubt have heard stories from John too about his time in the Marine Corps Reserve and his time in the Coast Guards and that too would have appealed to Lee on many levels.

I can imagine that Lee would have thought joining the Marines would be a salvation of sorts, inasmuch as he would be in a more 'settled' position where his 'difference's' wouldn't be a problem and where he may well find 'kindred spirits'...

Alistair,

If LHO hoped the Marines would be a salvation of sorts, he was eventually disappointed, according to Kerry Thornley, a fellow Marine.  

At his final base, the El Toro base near Santa Ana, California, LHO resisted his superior officers as far as possible.  He often got KP duty because of that.

It wasn't the work, said Thornley, but it was the fact that many of these "superior" officers had poor grammar, poor English skills, and didn't enjoy reading books.  Thornley was an intellectual, and LHO liked him.  They debated, but at least they had something to debate about.   The Marine officers who never read gave LHO a rash.  They clashed.

LHO would go around the base like "Beetle Baily," said Thornley.  LHO did his radar work -- but he was sloppy about other duties, and he basically dared the junior officers to clash with him.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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21 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

If LHO hoped the Marines would be a salvation of sorts, he was eventually disappointed, according to Kerry Thornley, a fellow Marine. 

I agree that he was eventually disappointed.

If he joined with high expectations of how it would work out, there is little surprise that he would eventually be disappointed; that's kind of how expectations work. lol

Regarding his whole time in the Marines, and I know I'm overly simplifying it here, but it seems to me that to start with things were going quite well with him but from the point he went to Japan it started to go wrong for him (maybe he was 'home-sick' lol)

I reckon there would have been a mental conflict there inasmuch as he would have known that joining the Marines was to get away from his life, but it wasn't working out as well as he thought but he would not want to have gone back to his previous life... that is why a move to Russia would appeal - he would have felt that he didn't fit in and not realising that it was because of him (but not his fault) he would have felt that a move to a place like Russia would be a salvation of sorts, inasmuch as he would be in a more 'settled' position where his 'difference's' wouldn't be a problem and where he may well find 'kindred spirits'...

* As a slight aside, I wonder if Oswald ever read The Sun Also Rises by Ernest Hemingway.

 

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Posted (edited)

Alistair,

As long as we're guessing here, it seems to me that LHO was never committed in his heart to the Marines.

Instead, LHO hoped that he would be recognized for his high literary attainment and get a chance to be an intellectual -- as he really saw himself.

His hopes were piqued when he got a job in radar, but LHO wanted more.

He was very young.  LHO began to dream of becoming a spy.  But there was really little chance of that, because LHO was a high school dropout and could hardly spell.  He couldn't drive a car.

He might have thought of getting into the USSR , or the ONI may have offered him a trainee job as a "dangle" in Russia.

If he thought of it alone, then he probably hoped the USSR would send him to college.  They didn't, of course.

If the ONI sent him, then LHO became bored with his 3 year contract after only 2 years, and broke his contract.

LHO HAD A HARD TIME STICKING TO ANYTHING.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

 

Edited by Paul Trejo

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20 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

If he thought of it alone, then he probably hoped the USSR would send him to college.  They didn't, of course.

I wonder...

... perhaps Russia was his defacto choice ultimately, but after scoring 'poor' on a Russian test in early 1959 he decided to try and enrol in college in Switzerland as something of a stepping stone to reaching his goal.

Anyway, question for you,

His route to Russia was from the US to France, then to England, then to Finland (where he applied and recieved a visa to go to Russia) - was there any particular reason for doing it that way?

Regards

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22 minutes ago, Alistair Briggs said:

I wonder...

... perhaps Russia was his defacto choice ultimately, but after scoring 'poor' on a Russian test in early 1959 he decided to try and enrol in college in Switzerland as something of a stepping stone to reaching his goal.

Anyway, question for you,

His route to Russia was from the US to France, then to England, then to Finland (where he applied and recieved a visa to go to Russia) - was there any particular reason for doing it that way?

Regards

Alistair,

I see no particular reason for this sight-seeing tour of Europe before LHO tried to fake his way into the USSR.

IMHO, the ultimate life goal of Lee Harvey Oswald was to be recognized as an intellectual.  He probably had more brains than most of us recognize today.  But they could not be recognized, because LHO had no college opportunities.

Now -- there was the Albert Schweitzer college in Switzerland -- and LHO did apply there.  His mother gave him the application fee,  But he never showed up.  I think that LHO got cold feet.  He would have to buckle down and study what other people wanted him to study.  They would criticize his spelling.  He might get bad grades.

Worst of all -- this was a Christian college, and LHO was an atheist, so he said.  LHO was a Marxist -- not a Communist, but a Marxist.  He often repeated this.   There are such intellectuals.  LHO knew that he could not pursue his Marxist studies at a Christian college, so he boldly dared to enter the USSR.

Whether LHO chose the ONI dangle program (which is a fair guess) or whether LHO chose to try to study Marxism at a USSR University, I can't guess today.  Yet it seems to me that LHO thought of himself as an intellectual.  Perhaps he would write his memoirs of his daring journey into the USSR, and then return to the West, get them published and be a superstar like Ernest Hemingway. 

It seems to me that this was LHO's enduring fantasy.  A variation on this fantasy was that LHO would become a super spy, a double-agent, or like 007.  LHO would read many 007 novels.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

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21 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

As long as we're guessing here, it seems to me that LHO was never committed in his heart to the Marines.

Just out of curiosity, have you read Norman Mailer's Oswald's Tale?

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