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Thomas Graves

Were TSBD employees Stella Jacob, Gloria Holt, and Sharon Simmons misidentified as "Gloria Calvery," "Karan Hicks," and "Carol Reed" on Elm Street?

89 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Twenty-three year-old TSBD employee Stella Mae Jacob, being a Native American, was (probably) dark-complected. Stella and two of her colleagues, Gloria Jeanne Holt and Sharon Nelson (maiden name: Simmons) said in their FBI statements that they watched the motorcade together, and that they stood at the curb on the south [sic] side of Elm Street.  I believe an honest mistake was made and that their FBI statements should have said "north side of Elm," instead.  I base that belief not only on the fact that Jacob, being Native American, must have been dark-skinned, but also because Gloria Jeanne Holt bears a striking resemblance to the person identified (by Speth?) as "Karan Hicks." 

(Disregard the "Oops!  This Site Has Expired!" message, and scroll down to see two photos of Gloria Jeanne Holt.): http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/forums/topics/show/13242379-minor-witnesses

 

Left to Right: Jacob, Holt, Simmons(?)

 

"I, Stella Mae Jacob, freely furnish the following voluntary statement to Eugene F. Petrakis and A. Raymond Switzer, who have identified themselves to me as Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.  I am an Indian female and reside at 508 South Marsalis, Dallas, Texas.  I was born on May 31, 1943 in Wright City, Oklahoma, and have been employed at the Texas School Book Depository, 411 Elm, Dallas, Texas, as typist in the billing department since the 1st of July, 1963.  At approximately 12 :00 p .m . on November 22, 1963. I left the Depository building  and walked down toward the Stemmons expressway underpass west of the building approximately fifty yards and took up a position on the curb on the south (sic) side of Elm Street to await the presidential procession . I was accompanied by Sharon Simmons, now Mrs. Nelson, and [Gloria] Jeanne Holt, both employees of the Texas School Book Depository. I was still standing on the curb at the time president John F . Kennedy was shot I do not recall seeing lee Harvey Oswald at any time on November 22, 1963, and did not see him at the time of the  asassination.  I did not observe any strangers in the building on the morning of November 22, 1963. Following the assassination of the president, I tried to return to work in the Texas School Book Depository, but was told by other employees that no one would be allowed in the building so I did not return to work that day. I did not personally know Lee Harvey Oswald althought I recall seeing him on several occasions in the lunchroom. I have read this two page statement, initialed each page and each correction and find it true and correct to the best o£ my knowledge." /s/ Stella Mae Jacob        

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1381.pdf

 

--  Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves

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If you were given her phone number would you phone and ask her? If you were given her address would you write her a letter? ;)

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Tommy, you may be onto something.

Earlier I could not identify the race of the woman labeled as Gloria Calvery. But bingo! Yeah, she definitely looks native American. She has the classic North American native nose.

darnell-and-zapruder-films-women-in-them

 

apsaroke-mother-and-child-edward-s-curti

 

And you're right, the woman in the yearbook you linked to, Gloria Jeanne Holt, certainly does look like the woman labeled as Hicks.
 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Just to summarize, here are the three woman said to be standing on the south side of Elm:

  • Stella Mae Jacob       (Native American)
  • Gloria Jeanne Holt     (blond)
  • Sharon (Simmons) Nelson

Sharon Nelson said she was "standing on the sidewalk on Elm Street about midway between the TSBD building and the underpass." This places her and her friends in the same location as the woman marked as Calvery, Hicks, and Reed.

It's looking to me like you've identified the real names of the three woman, Thomas.

Calvery, Hicks, and Reed are really Jacob, Holt, and Nelson, respectively. Or so it seems.

(Note: Testimony indicates a few other woman were standing with these three. So I/Thomas might be misidentifying the woman labeled as Reed.)

 

darnell-and-zapruder-films-women-in-them

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen

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*When I first read that Stella Mae Jacob was Indian, I just presumed it meant Indian, like actually Indian, rather than 'Native American'. No biggy though...

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The Calvery mis-identification was corrected in my image galleries months ago.

Image9-vert.jpg

 

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Please post photo's showing

Stella Mae Jacob, Gloria Jeanne Holt, and Sharon Simmons-Nelson

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So far i have seen NOTHING in this thread to convince me that the two woman seen in Zapruder were not Hicks and Reed.?

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Posted (edited)

On 02/03/2017 at 5:56 AM, Thomas Graves said:

Like Thierry Speth's alleged "Gloria Jean Calvery," 23-year-old TSBD employee Stella Mae Jacob, being a Native American, was (probably) dark-complected. Stella and two of her colleagues, Gloria Jeanne Holt and Sharon Nelson (maiden name: Simmons) said in their FBI statements that they watched the motorcade together, and that they stood at the curb on the south [sic] side of Elm Street.  I believe an honest mistake was made and that their FBI statements should have said "north side of Elm," instead.  I base that belief not only on the fact that Jacob, being Native American, must have been dark-skinned (like "Calvery"), but also because Gloria Jeanne Holt bears a striking resemblance to the person identified (by Speth?) as "Karan Hicks." 

 

(Disregard the "Opps!  This Site Has Expired!" message, and scroll down to see two photos of Gloria Jeanne Holt.):

http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/forums/topics/show/13242379-minor-witnesses

 

Left to Right: Jacob, Holt, Simmons-Nelson ???

 

"I, Stella Mae Jacob, freely furnish the following voluntary statement to Eugene F. Petrakis and A. Raymond Switzer, who have identified themselves to me as Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.  I am an Indian female and reside at 508 South Marsalis, Dallas, Texas.  I was born on May 31, 1943 in Wright City, Oklahoma, and have been employed at the Texas School Book Depository, 411 Elm, Dallas, Texas, as typist in the billing department since the 1st of July, 1963.  At approximately 12 :00 p .m . on November 22, 1963. I left the Depository building  and walked down toward the Stemmons expressway underpass west of the building approximately fifty yards and took up a position on the curb on the south aide of Elm Street to await the presidential procession . I was accompanied by Sharon Simmons, now Mrs. Nelson, and [Gloria] Jeanne Holt, both employees of the Texas School Book Depository. I was still standing on the curb at the time president John F . Kennedy was shot I do not recall seeing lee Harvey Oswald at any time on November 22, 1963, and did not see him at the time of the  asassination.  I did not observe any strangers in the building on the morning of November 22, 1963. Following the assassination of the president, I tried to return to work in the Texas School Book Depository, but was told by other employees that no one would be allowed in the building so I did not return to work that day. I did not personally know Lee Harvey Oswald althought I recall seeing him on several occasions in the lunchroom. I have read this two page statement, initialed each page and each correction and find it true and correct to the best o£ my knowledge." /s/ Stella Mae Jacob        

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1381.pdf

 

--  Tommy :sun

Good morning, Thomas!

May I be the first to say, bloody brilliant bit of deductive logic! Yes, Gloria Jeanne Holt's high school photo does bear a strong resemblance to the woman ID'ed as Karan Hicks, and the woman ID'ed as Gloria Calvery could very well be a native American whose name might just be Stella Mae Jacob. 

Interestingly, Nelson is the only one of the three to not say which side of Elm she was standing on, while Jacob and Holt both stated they were standing on the south side of Elm.

Just to clarify things for anyone new to this case, the group of women ID'ed on the north side of Elm as Gloria Calvery, Karan Hicks and Carol Reed also included two other women named Karen Westbrook and June Dishong. Out of these five women, only June Dishong failed to give a statement to the FBI. While Calvery, Westbrook, Hicks and Reed each list the other three women as being in their group, all four women omit June Dishong from this group, even though she is clearly seen standing with these four women in the Zapruder still.

Of course, you realize it is not just Calvery that is misidentified but also the group of four (or five) she is standing in, and the entire group must be removed from the location east of the Stemmons sign.. The same goes for Stella Mae Jacob's group. Is there a group of four (or five) unidentified women on the north (or south) side of Elm St. that might be Calvery and her friends?

Of course, if Jacob, Holt and Nelson are part of the group of five women on the north side of Elm (ID'ed as Calvery, Hicks, Reed, Westbrook and Dishong) why would all three of these women fail to mention they were part of a group of five women that could have included Westbrook and Dishong?

So, we have seven women giving statements to the FBI and six of them clearly state which side (north or south) of Elm St. they are standing on. In each group, there is no disagreement as to which side of the street that group is on.

Are we to believe six women cannot tell north from south? Where are we to find Calvery, Westbrook, Hicks, Reed and possibly Dishong now?

Can anyone say now, with a straight face, there has not been evidence tampering by the FBI?

Edited by Robert Prudhomme

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1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Just to summarize, here are the three woman said to be standing on the south side of Elm:

  • Stella Mae Jacob       (Native American)
  • Gloria Jeanne Holt     (blond)
  • Sharon (Simmons) Nelson

Sharon Nelson said she was "standing on the sidewalk on Elm Street about midway between the TSBD building and the underpass." This places her and her friends in the same location as the woman marked as Calvery, Hicks, and Reed


Isn't it true that Sharon Nelson must be referring to the north side of Elm here? There seems to be no unidentified women on the south side.



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1 hour ago, Alistair Briggs said:

*When I first read that Stella Mae Jacob was Indian, I just presumed it meant Indian, like actually Indian, rather than 'Native American'. No biggy though...

Alistair,

She was from Wright City, Oklahoma.  According to Wikipedia, 38.44% of the city's inhabitants were Native American in the 2000 census.

--  Tommy :sun

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2 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Alistair,

She was from Wright City, Oklahoma.  According to Wikipedia, 38.44% of the city's inhabitants were Native American in the 2000 census.

--  Tommy :sun

Just one of those things, where my brain never made the connection at first. lol

btw my earlier question about phoning her or writing a letter to her was a genuine question by the way... ;)

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