Thomas Graves

Were TSBD employees Stella Jacob, Gloria Holt, and Sharon Simmons misidentified as "Gloria Calvery," "Karan Hicks," and "Carol Reed" on Elm Street?

89 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

On 3/20/2017 at 3:43 AM, Thomas Graves said:

Dear Ray,

The obvious problem with that interpretation is that in none of the films or photos which show the "infield grass" between Elm Street and Main Street during the motorcade is there visible a group of three women (comprised of self-described "Indian female" Stella Jacob, blond-in-her-highschool-yearbook-photos Gloria Jeanne Holt, and a "mysterious" co-worker by the name of Sharon Simmonsstanding at the curb on the south side of Elm Street, about 150 feet  down the street from the TSBD, in the direction of the Triple Underpass (aka "Stemmons expressway underpass").

So, since those three gals weren't on the south side of Elm Street, it's logical to assume they were probably on the other side of Elm Street (i.e. the north side, next to the Grassy Knoll, where most of the spectators on Elm Street were, anyway), don't you agree?

 And lo-and-behold, when we look with an open mind we see that there IS a group of the three gals standing close to each other over there on the north side - Robin Unger's (strangely dark-skinned) Gloria CalvAry (sic), blond Karan Hicks (who looks amazingly like Gloria Jeanne Holt does in a high school yearbook photo which was taken of Holt one year earlier), and, of course, the "mysterious" Sharron Simmons

--  Tommy :sun

Edited for the CIA and bumped for Ray Mitchum

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Thomas Graves said:

Edited for the CIA and bumped for Ray Mitchum

Thanks for the bump, Thomas. (I had to put my sunglasses on to read the post.:D)

Don't know what your beef is, as I believe the girls were on the South side of (the original) Elm Street, i.e the North side of  the new, Freeway access,  Elm Street.

 

 

p.s. my surname is spelled Mitcham, not Mitchum.

Edited by Ray Mitcham

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Thanks for the bump, Thomas. (I had to put my sunglasses on to read the post.:D)

Don't know what your beef is, as I believe the girls were on the South side of (the original) Elm Street, i.e the North side of  the new, Freeway access,  Elm Street.

p.s. my surname is spelled Mitcham, not Mitchum.

Dear Mister Mitcham,

Due to your insistence on referring to "(the original) Elm Street", etc., etc, etc., I'm a little confused now.  

Bottom line:  Do you or do you not believe "Gloria CalvAry (sic)" was labeled correctly (not from a spelling point of view (lol), but from a location point-of-view), in the big, color, heavily-labelled Z-Frame (and other photographic images taken during the motorcade) which Thierry Speth, or Don Roberdeau, or Robin Unger apparently labeled way, way back in the day?  (I'll try to post it below.)

 

Below clip below is for reference as to who I'm talking about, only, because said clip was taken after the motorcade, after these three ladies had left their "during the motorcade position", and I certainly don't want to confuse you more than I evidently already have.

[From left to right: CalvAry, Hicks, Reed]

 

Here it is!:

temoins071.jpg

 

Edit:  I've just now found this image, below, on another (unrelated) thread, and I thought I'd share it with you.  The gal wearing the light-blue headscarf on the other side of the street, directly above the limo's windshield / windscreen, is the same person who is labeled "Carol Reed" at the far right in the Z-Frame, above.  

Now, it seems to me that if Stella Jacob, Gloria Jeanne Holt, and Sharron Simmons were standing at the curb on the south side of Elm Street, about 150 down the street from the TSBD (where they worked), like their FBI statements say, that we'd be able to see them doing so in this film frame, below, ... but we don't.  Why is that?  Because the light-blue headscarf-wearing gal isn't Carol Reed, after all, but Sharron Simmons, and the blond-haired gal next to her in the Z-Frame isn't Karan Hicks, but Gloria Jeanne Holt, and the dark-haired gal standing next to her isn't the strangely dark-skinned Gloria CalvAry (sic) after all, but Native American Stella Jakcob!

cb.jpg

--  Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Posted (edited)

19 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Dear Mister Mitcham,

Due to your insistence on referring to "(the original) Elm Street", etc., etc, etc., I'm more than a little confused now.  

Bottom line:  Do you or do you not believe "Gloria CalvAry (sic)" was labeled correctly (not from a spelling point of view (lol), but from a location point-of-view), in the big, color, heavily-labelled Z-Frame (and other photographic images taken during the motorcade) which Thierry Speth, or Don Roberdeau, or Robin Unger apparently labeled way, way back in the day?  

 

The below clip below is for reference as to who I'm talking about, only, because said clip was taken after the motorcade, after these three ladies had left their "during the motorcade position", and I certainly don't want to confuse you more than I evidently already have.

[From left to right: CalvAry, Hicks, Reed]

 

I believe this Z-Frame was unintentionally mis-labeled, probably by Thierry Speth, Don Roberdeau, and / or Robin Unger some time ago.

temoins071.jpg

 

Edit:  I've just now found this image, below, on another (unrelated) thread, and I thought I'd share it with you.  The gal wearing the light-blue headscarf on the other side of the street, directly above the limo's windshield / windscreen, is the same person who is labeled "Carol Reed" at the far right in the Z-Frame, above.  

Now, it seems to me that if Stella Jacob, Gloria Jeanne Holt, and Sharron Simmons were standing at the curb on the south side of Elm Street, about 150 down the street from the TSBD (where they worked), like their FBI statements say, that we'd be able to see them doing so in this film frame, below, ... but we don't.  Why is that?  Because the light-blue headscarf-wearing gal isn't Carol Reed, after all, but Sharron Simmons, and the blond-haired gal next to her in the Z-Frame isn't Karan Hicks, but Gloria Jeanne Holt, and the dark-haired gal standing next to her isn't the strangely dark-skinned Gloria CalvAry (sic) after all, but Native American Stella Jacob!

cb.jpg

--  Tommy :sun

Edited and bumped for Ray Mitcham.

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Thomas, You haven't confused me at all. You have mis-understood me. How many people are standing to the left of the woman with  the blue scarf in the above frame?

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Thomas, You haven't confused me at all. You have mis-understood me. How many people are standing to the left of the woman with  the blue scarf in the above frame?

 

Mister Mitcham asked --

"How many people are standing to the left of the woman with  the blue scarf in the [below] frame?"

cb.jpg

 

Old Bean,

What IS your point? 

(I seem to have left my Ouija board at home so I haven't got a clue.)

--  Tommy :sun

 

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Simple question,  dear Thomas, how many people can you see in the frame you posted above?

 

(You shouldn't need a ouija board to answer) 

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Simple question,  dear Thomas, how many people can you see in the frame you posted above?

 

(You shouldn't need a ouija board to answer) 

Well, Old Bean

If I knew what you were getting at, I'd be a little less likely to make a bloody fool of myself, wouldn't I.

Fancy that.

Cheers,

--  Tommy :sun

PS  You do realize that those people on the far side of the street are standing on the north side of Elm Street, don't you, ... Old Bean?

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Why do you need to know what I'm getting at to answer a simple question, Thomas?

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Posted (edited)

15 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Why do you need to know what I'm getting at to answer a simple question, Thomas?

Ball's.

In your court.

Old Bean.

I neither play with loaded guns nor countenance mysteriously loaded questions.

--  Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Thomas Graves said:

Ball's.

In your court.

Old Bean.

I neither play with loaded guns nor countenance mysteriously-loaded questions.

--  Tommy :sun

Edited and bumped for Old Bean

Edited by Thomas Graves

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58 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Edited and bumped for Old Bean

Fine. I'll do the same next time you ask me a question.

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4 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Fine. I'll do the same next time you ask me a question.

Mister Mitcham,

Am I really as dissembling and devious as you seem to be, Old Bean?

--  Tommy :sun

 

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Posted (edited)

To reiterate:

Sandy, is this where you want it?  (LOL-- Just joking)

 

Twenty-three year-old TSBD employee Stella Mae Jacob, being a Native American, was (probably) dark-complected. Stella and two of her colleagues, Gloria Jeanne Holt and Sharon Nelson (maiden name: Simmons) said in their FBI statements that they watched the motorcade together, and that they stood at the curb on the south [sic] side of Elm Street, about 50 yards (150 feet) down the street from the TSBD.  I believe an honest mistake was made and that their FBI statements should have said "north side of Elm," instead.  I base that belief not only on the fact that Jacob, being Native American, must have been dark-skinned, but also because Gloria Jeanne Holt bears a striking resemblance to the person identified (by Speth?) as "Karan Hicks." 

(Credit: Stan Dane. Please disregard the "Oops!  This Site Has Expired!" message, and scroll down to see two photos of Gloria Jeanne Holt.) http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/forums/topics/show/13242379-minor-witnesses

 

Left to Right: Jacob, Holt, Simmons(?)

 

"I, Stella Mae Jacob, freely furnish the following voluntary statement to Eugene F. Petrakis and A. Raymond Switzer, who have identified themselves to me as Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.  I am an Indian female and reside at 508 South Marsalis, Dallas, Texas.  I was born on May 31, 1943 in Wright City, Oklahoma, and have been employed at the Texas School Book Depository, 411 Elm, Dallas, Texas, as typist in the billing department since the 1st of July, 1963.  At approximately 12 :00 p .m . on November 22, 1963. I left the Depository building  and walked down toward the Stemmons expressway underpass west of the building approximately fifty yards and took up a position on the curb on the south (sic) side of Elm Street to await the presidential procession . I was accompanied by Sharon Simmons, now Mrs. Nelson, and [Gloria] Jeanne Holt, both employees of the Texas School Book Depository. I was still standing on the curb at the time president John F . Kennedy was shot I do not recall seeing lee Harvey Oswald at any time on November 22, 1963, and did not see him at the time of the  asassination.  I did not observe any strangers in the building on the morning of November 22, 1963. Following the assassination of the president, I tried to return to work in the Texas School Book Depository, but was told by other employees that no one would be allowed in the building so I did not return to work that day. I did not personally know Lee Harvey Oswald althought I recall seeing him on several occasions in the lunchroom. I have read this two page statement, initialed each page and each correction and find it true and correct to the best o£ my knowledge." /s/ Stella Mae Jacob        

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1381.pdf

Edited by Thomas Graves

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