Was "Full-Figured" Gloria Calvery "Running Woman"?

[Robert Prudhomme]

It's very tempting to make the large woman known only as No. 10 Gloria Calvery, simply because she has not been ID'ed, but we're not just looking for Calvery. We need to find a group of four women standing together.

[Robin Unger]

Just now, Robert Prudhomme said:

It's very tempting to make the large woman known only as No. 10 Gloria Calvery, simply because she has not been ID'ed, but we're not just looking for Calvery. We need to find a group of four women standing together.

I agree Robert

[Robert Prudhomme]

21 hours ago, Robin Unger said:

The annotation also left out the woman in blue in between Brown and Berry

and the woman in white next to Millican.

Good observation, Robin. Now, when these four women said they were standing together in a group, is it possible their group was interspersed with other people, or do they define being "together" as literally four of them shoulder to shoulder?

[Robin Unger]

[Robert Prudhomme]

Something tells me we have more names than there are people standing on the north side of Elm St.

[Thomas Graves]

3 hours ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Good observation, Robin. Now, when these four women said they were standing together in a group, is it possible their group was interspersed with other people, or do they define being "together" as literally four of them shoulder to shoulder?

 

I think the four unidentified women enclosed in the yellow rectangle in one of the (reversed) Z-frames Robin posted probably came to that position on Elm Street together, and are all friends, or at least co-workers.

I say this not only because they're standing close together, but because they're the only women in that photograph and the larger one below it who are wearing head scarves, with the exception of newly-ID'd Sharon Sessions at the far left, wearing the light blue one.

That kinda "sticks out like a sore thumb" to me.

 

--  Tommy

Edited March 3, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

5 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Sandy, 

On another thread you asked, in so many words, about how to start looking for Calvery in the photos.

For starters, here's Hugh Betzner #3, which is almost identical to a photo taken by Phil Willis.  You should also take a good look at un-cropped Altgens 6, and the frame-by-frame Z-Film.

 

Edit:  In Betzner 3, below, could the tall woman (standing "next to" a guy and visible between the #2 and #3 farthest-left SS guys) who's wearing a dark dress and dark headscarf be Gloria Calvery?  (We know from the Z-Film that that particular woman (Ms. "L" in the color Z-frame, previous post) was tall and "broad in the beam" just like Gloria Calvery appeared to have been in her high school and wedding photos.)

 

--  Tommy

PS --  Page 4 of this thread might be helpful (scroll way down it to get to the good stuff):  http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/22655-re-post-from-rokc-re-baker-entering-tsbd/&page=4

edited and bumped

Edited March 3, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

1 hour ago, Thomas Graves said:

edited and bumped

bumped again already

[Sandy Larsen]

On 3/3/2017 at 3:47 AM, Thomas Graves said:

On 3/3/2017 at 0:12 AM, Thomas Graves said:

Sandy, 

On another thread you asked, in so many words, about how to start looking for Calvery in the photos.

For starters, here's Hugh Betzner #3, which is almost identical to a photo taken by Phil Willis.  You should also take a good look at un-cropped Altgens 6, and the frame-by-frame Z-Film.

 

Edit:  In Betzner 3, below, could the tall woman (standing "next to" a guy and visible between the #2 and #3 farthest-left SS guys) who's wearing a dark dress and dark headscarf be Gloria Calvery?  (We know from the Z-Film that that particular woman (Ms. "L" in the color Z-frame, previous post) was tall and "broad in the beam" just like Gloria Calvery appeared to have been in her high school and wedding photos.)

 

--  Tommy

PS --  Page 4 of this thread might be helpful (scroll way down it to get to the good stuff):  http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/22655-re-post-from-rokc-re-baker-entering-tsbd/&page=4

 

Thanks Thomas!

I'll study all those.

Regarding the "broad in the beam" woman, she strikes me as being larger than Calvery. But I wouldn't rule her out.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

4 hours ago, Robin Unger said:

 

Gloria Calvery seems to like outfits that don't show her figure. (Did I draw that conclusion from only two photos of her? LOL) Either a straight dress with no elastic or belt at the waist, or a suit-like dress (as in her wedding announcement photo).

I don't think she'd wear a skirt and blouse. That would reveal her non-waistline.

I therefore wonder if she is the lady in blue in the photo above, the one who is just barely standing outside the yellow box, on its left. In the other photo, -- the one showing these people's faces -- if you zoom way in it looks like she is wearing an outfit like the one in her wedding announcement. Except that the coat looks like it is open (which does add a little doubt in my mind)..

[Sandy Larsen]

Here's a thought. As Bob has noted, a lot of these affidavits look like boilerplate. And Bob wonders if they have been fiddled with.

I agree that a lot of them look like they were written by the same person. And that makes me wonder how accurate they are.

We are having a hard time finding Calvery. Some of you guys have searched for her repeatedly over a span of years.

Maybe we are looking in the wrong place.

I wonder if Calvery was really standing closer to the concrete island, near the traffic light. Where Shelley said he talked to her after the shooting. Are there any pictures showing the spectators there?

 

[Sandy Larsen]

Bob said:

Quote

Something tells me we have more names than there are people standing on the north side of Elm St.

I've wondered the same. And that thought supports what I conjectured, that maybe Gloria was standing elsewhere.

[Bill Miller]

59 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Here's a thought. As Bob has noted, a lot of these affidavits look like boilerplate. And Bob wonders if they have been fiddled with.

I agree that a lot of them look like they were written by the same person. And that makes me wonder how accurate they are.

We are having a hard time finding Calvery. Some of you guys have searched for her repeatedly over a span of years.

Maybe we are looking in the wrong place.

I wonder if Calvery was really standing closer to the concrete island, near the traffic light. Where Shelley said he talked to her after the shooting. Are there any pictures showing the spectators there?

An Affidavit is a general statement taken of witness before a more detailed interview can be given. When a line of people stand along the street and all watch the same event unfold before them - there is really no reason to think that there would be a vast differences in their descriptions.

Calvery told where she was standing and some have used the statements of three other women to place her between the two road signs. One cannot help notice that to avoid the one woman in that line of witnesses who is wearing the same type of black skirt as running woman .... there is a desire to place Calvery elsewhere other than where she was originally said to be.   

[Sandy Larsen]

11 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

An Affidavit is a general statement taken of witness before a more detailed interview can be given. When a line of people stand along the street and all watch the same event unfold before them - there is really no reason to think that there would be a vast differences in their descriptions.

Calvery told where she was standing and some have used the statements of three other women to place her between the two road signs. One cannot help notice that to avoid the one woman in that line of witnesses who is wearing the same type of black skirt as running woman .... there is a desire to place Calvery elsewhere other than where she was originally said to be.   

 

Or.... maybe the desire to look elsewhere is because after two years of looking at the same spot, Calvery cannot be found.

[Bill Miller]

2 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Or.... maybe the desire to look elsewhere is because after two years of looking at the same spot, Calvery cannot be found.

More probable than not that Calvery knew where she was during the assassination. Your not accepting who she was does not mean she was elsewhere.