ON TRIAL: LEE HARVEY OSWALD" Trial Of Lee Harvey Oswald (PART 23) (CLOSING ARGUMENTS AND VERDICT)

[Paul Trejo]

James,

Why don't you just come out and say what you have on your mind?

Thanks,
--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

2 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

...I think Walthers saw some material in the Paine garage and misinterpreted its contents. Walthers himself said he never went through the material, so he doesn't know what the boxes really contained. And I think I make a pretty good case for at least some of that material belonging to OSWALD, not the Paines...

David,

What do you think that material might have been, that Dallas Deputy Buddy Walthers "misrepresented" as "six or seven filing cabinets" full of the names of Castro supporters?

That is, we have the DPD and FBI photographs of the contents of Ruth Paine's garage -- which of those items do you think Dallas Deputy Buddy Walthers misrepresented?

Thanks,
--Paul Trejo

[James DiEugenio]

Hysterical or no?

DVP and PT cooperating to discredit Buddy Walthers with help of the DPD.

[James DiEugenio]

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

James,

Why don't you just come out and say what you have on your mind?

Thanks,
--Paul Trejo

 

Those two videos say what is on my mind.  IF you did not notice, I wrote and narrated the second one.

[Paul Trejo]

7 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Those two videos say what is on my mind.  IF you did not notice, I wrote and narrated the second one.

James,

Yes, they are rather long-winded.   Why not just briefly summarize the point that you wish to make?

Thanks,
--Paul Trejo

Edited March 22, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

9 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Hysterical or no?

DVP and PT cooperating to discredit Buddy Walthers with help of the DPD.

James,

Are you really wiling to dig into the Buddy Walthers' inaccurate claim of "six or seven metal filing cabinets" found at Ruth Paine's garage?

Or are you ducking this one as well?   Because -- I'm ready to get into it.

Thanks,
--Paul Trejo

[James DiEugenio]

What do you mean, "they are long winded".  I only narrated one of them.

Apparently you did not notice that the first one was by Len Osanic.

Well, you do miss a lot.

[James DiEugenio]

PT:

Keep on cooperating with Davey.

You will get my drift.

[Paul Trejo]

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

James,

Are you really wiling to dig into the Buddy Walthers' inaccurate claim of "six or seven metal filing cabinets" found at Ruth Paine's garage?

Or are you ducking this one as well?   Because -- I'm ready to get into it.

Thanks,
--Paul Trejo

BUMPED for James Di Eugenio.

[David Von Pein]

14 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

David,

What do you think that material might have been, that Dallas Deputy Buddy Walthers "misrepresented" as "six or seven filing cabinets" full of the names of Castro supporters?

That is, we have the DPD and FBI photographs of the contents of Ruth Paine's garage -- which of those items do you think Dallas Deputy Buddy Walthers misrepresented?

Thanks,
--Paul Trejo

Well, some of that material almost certainly belonged to Oswald, not the Paines. Wouldn't you agree with that?

And if SOME of it was really Oswald's, why not all of it?

[Joe Bauer]

Is the phone record document as shown in the James Di narrated video a fraudulent one?

There are such huge implications riding on what day that collect call from Ruth to MIchael Paine was made, that this question is one of the most important ones in determining the credibility of the Paines testimony.

What is the true date and time of that "We both know who's responsible" telephone call?

Edited March 23, 2017 by Joe Bauer

[Ray Mitcham]

4 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Well, some of that material almost certainly belonged to Oswald, not the Paines. Wouldn't you agree with that?

And if SOME of it was really Oswald's, why not all of it?

How do you know that "SOME of it" belonged to Oswald, David?

[David Von Pein]

37 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

How do you know that "SOME of it" belonged to Oswald, David?

I don't know it for a fact. I'm just guessing. But, IMO, it's a reasonable guess. (See following text, taken from this 2013 discussion.) ....

DAVID VON PEIN SAID [QUOTING BUDDY WALTHERS' TESTIMONY]:

BUDDY WALTHERS. You could tell it from the way it was tied and the impression of where that barrel went up in it where it was tied, that a rifle had been tied in it, but what kind---you couldn't tell, but you could tell a rifle had been wrapped up in it, and then we found some little metal file cabinets---I don't know what kind you would call them---they would carry an 8 by 10 folder, all right, but with a single handle on top of it and the handle moves.

WESLEY LIEBELER. About how many of them would you think there were?

Mr. WALTHERS. There were six or seven, I believe, and I put them all in the trunk of my car and we also found a box of pictures, a bunch of pictures that we taken. We didn't go to the trouble of looking at any of this stuff much---just more or less confiscated it at the time, and we looked at it there just like that, and then we took all this stuff and put it in the car and then Mrs. Paine got a phone number from Mrs. Oswald where you could call Lee Harvey Oswald in Oak Cliff. It was a Whitehall phone number, I believe, and they said they didn't know where he lived, but this was where they called him, and I called Sheriff Decker on the phone when I was there and gave him that number for the crisscross, so they could send some men to that house, which I think they did, but I didn't go myself. Then we put everybody in the car, the kids, Mrs. Oswald, and everyone---no; just a minute---before that, though, this Michael Paine or Mitchell Paine, whichever you call it, came home and I had understood from Mrs. Paine already that they weren't living together, that they were separated and he was supposed to be living in Grand Prairie and when he showed up I asked him what was his object in coming home. He said--well, after he had heard about the President's getting shot, he just decided he would take off and come home, and he arrived there while we were there.

[...]

Mr. LIEBELER. What was in these file cabinets?

Mr. WALTHERS. We didn't go through them at the scene. I do remember a letterhead--I can't describe it--I know we opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead we had pulled out and so I just pushed it all back down and shut it and took the whole works.

Mr. LIEBELER. I have been advised that some story has developed that at some point that when you went out there you found seven file cabinets full of cards that had the names on them of pro-Castro sympathizers or something of that kind, but you don't remember seeing any of them?

Mr. WALTHERS. Well, that could have been one, but I didn't see it.

Mr. LIEBELER. There certainly weren't any seven file cabinets with the stuff you got out there or anything like that?

Mr. WALTHERS. I picked up all of these file cabinets and what all of them contained, I don't know myself to this day.

Mr. LIEBELER. As I was sitting here listening to your story, I could see where that story might have come from--you mentioned the "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets that were in a barrel.

Mr. WALTHERS. That's right--we got a stack of them out of that barrel, but things get all twisted around.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/walthers

[END WARREN COMMISSION QUOTES.]

Question:

What proof is there that the file cabinets belonged to Ruth or Michael Paine? Why couldn't that stuff have been part of Lee Oswald's personal possessions? After all, about everything Lee and Marina owned was in Mrs. Paine's garage in November of '63.

This part of Buddy Walthers' Warren Commission testimony above certainly makes it sound as though at least some of the material in at least one of the metal file cabinets belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald:

"We opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead..."

In addition, there is this WC testimony from Marina Oswald, in which she refers to a metal file cabinet owned by Lee Oswald, in which he kept materials associated with his Fair Play For Cuba activities (the box itself can be seen in Commission Exhibit 125):

Mr. THORNE. Exhibit 125 is a file cabinet for presumably three by five or five by seven inch cards.

Mrs. OSWALD. Lee kept his printing things in that, pencils.

Mr. RANKIN. The things that he printed his Fair Play for Cuba leaflets on?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Pencils and materials that he used in connection with that matter?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he have any index cards in that metal case?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he had some.

Mr. RANKIN. You don't know what happened to them?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know what was on those index cards?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. A list of any people that you know of?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. I don't know.

Mr. RANKIN. Were those leaflets about Fair Play for Cuba printed?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. And then did he stamp something on them after he had them printed?

Mrs. OSWALD. He would print his name and address on them.

Mr. RANKIN. You don't know what happened to the cards that were in that?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

[END WC QUOTES.]

Whether the metal box of LHO's (CE125) has any connection at all to the several similar such metal boxes found at Ruth Paine's house on 11/22/63, I haven't the slightest idea. But perhaps Lee owned more than one such box.

~shrug~

[...]

There is...something in the testimony of DPD Detective Richard Stovall that might be of interest (although whether these "boxes" picked up by Stovall are related to the "file cabinets" discussed by Buddy Walthers, I haven't the foggiest)....

Mr. STOVALL -- "I've got listed "one grey metal file box, which is 12 inches by 6 inches; youth pictures and literature." I've got, "One black and gray metal box 10 inches by 4 inches, letters, etc., one box brown Keystone projector." Let's stop just a minute and let me tell you about this. These two metal boxes came out of Ruth Paine's bedroom. This Keystone projector came out of the closet in the hall. Then, I have listed, "Three brown metal boxes 12 inches by 4 inches containing phonograph records." They came out of Ruth Paine's bedroom."

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/stovall

EDIT -- Please note that most of the above information supplied by Detective Stovall concerning the contents of various "metal boxes" perfectly matches the items that Ruth Paine herself said was in the "file boxes" during her 2013 public appearance. In that 2013 audio, she said three of the boxes contained "folk dance records", three more boxes contained her "college papers", and the seventh box had a "projector" in it.


LARRY BALDWIN SAID:

...what were the Paines doing with this information and what are the implications?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I'm not convinced the stuff in the "file cabinets" seized by Buddy Walthers even belonged to Ruth Paine. As I speculated previously, maybe that stuff belonged to Lee Oswald. And this portion of Walthers' testimony is one reason why I say that:

"We opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead..."

So, as to WHAT exactly was contained in the boxes/cabinets and WHO exactly was the owner of that material -- I have no idea. Do you?


RONALD VAN DIJK SAID:

And since you checked all conspiracy's [sic] of any sort: Ruth has nothing to do with these cabinets! We can go on to the next topic! Life is easy if you want!


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

"We opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead..." -- Eddy "Buddy" Walthers

Sure sounds like OSWALD'S letter there, doesn't it? And why would Oswald's letter be in Ruth Paine's metal cabinets?

Who do you think the "he" is referring to in this sentence, Ronald?.....

"That's from the people he writes to in Russia."
 

Edited March 23, 2017 by David Von Pein

[Ray Mitcham]

So it's your guess that "certainly.... SOME of it" belonged to Oswald is only that a guess. Glad you cleared that up.

[Jeff Carter]

List of items taken from the Paines is in Commission Exhibits - Stovall A

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1138#relPageId=620&tab=page

1 Grey metal file box 12” x 6” youth pictures and literature

1 Black and grey metal box 10” x 4” letters, etc

3  Brown metal boxes 12” x 4” containing phonograph records

Michael Paine being ID'ed as checking up on potential Castro sympathetic students at Luby's is verified. They brought him back to Warren Commission to discuss this. Paine had suggested it was something of a hobby, getting the "pulse" of political tendencies of Dallas residents.

 

Phone record placing collect call between Michael Paine's office and Ruth's Irving home as Nov 22:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57772#relPageId=127&tab=page

Both Paine's recalled a single phone call between those numbers occurred at 1 PM. Michael Paine left his office not too long after that. He was not at his office on November 23. The Paines never deny that call took place at that time. Fudging the date is led first by FBI (late Dec 1963 interview with MP), and then Liebeler of Warren Commission (March 1964 MP testimony), with Michael Paine playing along (but never outright lying).