ON TRIAL: LEE HARVEY OSWALD" Trial Of Lee Harvey Oswald (PART 23) (CLOSING ARGUMENTS AND VERDICT)

[Jeff Carter]

Paul T - in my opinion, what this incident shows is that nothing in the record should ever be taken at face value. 

Your analysis is often riddled with unsupported assumptions. For example, Barger wasn’t “coaxed” into setting up a wiretap. The wiretap (if that’s what it was) was set up through the phone company, where Barger had been sent to “obtain a list of telephone tickets, or other helpful information”. Might Barger had a liaison or relationship with Dallas FBI? Possibly, because when Ruth Paine wants to deliver Marina’s cookbook with the so-called Walker note within, she specifically hands it to Barger. 

“Paul Barger's claim that Michael said that he knew Oswald was JFK's killer at 1pm is FALSE. That was the story being pushed by the JFK Killers.  They had tried to frame LHO, and now they were trying to frame the Paines.”

But the phone call and the approximate content is not disputed. Far from trying to “frame” the Paines, knowledge of this call may have been used to gain leverage on them. Hiding in plain sight in the record is a perfectly plausible, innocent explanation for the content of the call, but - after Odum interviews Michael Paine - no effort is expended trying to explain the call, everyone (FBI, Barger, WC, Paines) is trying to make it seem like it the call didn’t happen in the first place, or didn’t happen as first reported.

[Paul Trejo]

5 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

Paul T - in my opinion, what this incident shows is that nothing in the record should ever be taken at face value. 

Your analysis is often riddled with unsupported assumptions. For example, Barger wasn’t “coaxed” into setting up a wiretap. The wiretap (if that’s what it was) was set up through the phone company, where Barger had been sent to “obtain a list of telephone tickets, or other helpful information”. Might Barger had a liaison or relationship with Dallas FBI? Possibly, because when Ruth Paine wants to deliver Marina’s cookbook with the so-called Walker note within, she specifically hands it to Barger. 

“Paul Barger's claim that Michael said that he knew Oswald was JFK's killer at 1pm is FALSE. That was the story being pushed by the JFK Killers.  They had tried to frame LHO, and now they were trying to frame the Paines.”

But the phone call and the approximate content is not disputed. Far from trying to “frame” the Paines, knowledge of this call may have been used to gain leverage on them. Hiding in plain sight in the record is a perfectly plausible, innocent explanation for the content of the call, but - after Odum interviews Michael Paine - no effort is expended trying to explain the call, everyone (FBI, Barger, WC, Paines) is trying to make it seem like it the call didn’t happen in the first place, or didn’t happen as first reported.

Jeff,

Thanks for the continuing discussion.

It is one thing to bring skepticism to the scenario -- it is another thing to remain at the level of skepticism without seeking a logical resolution.

I admit that I have surmised that Barger was "coaxed" into setting up a wiretap.  Yet let us review the evidence.

(1) I think we both agree that Paul Barger was not being truthful when in 1963 he had no answer for the authorities, but in 1976 Barger "remembered" that it was a telephone company lineman who "accidentally" overheard the conversation of Marina Oswald's landlady, while "checking on the line."

(2) That sort of dishonesty should send bells ringing all over town.  I sharply reject any notion of "accident" in this wire-tap.

(3) I surmise that Paul Barger was not informed enough to plan this wire-tap on his own.  That is, Paul Barger would have no reason (that I know of) to be tracking Marina Oswald in the first place.  So, why would he tap her phone?

(4) On the other hand, Dallas FBI agent James Hosty had a professional duty to track Marina Oswald.  He had already begun doing so in early November at Ruth Paine's home.

(5) So, based on these basic facts, I surmise that James Hosty "coaxed" Irving Police Captain Paul Barger to start a wire-tap on Ruth Paine's home before 11/22/1963.

(6) That does not seem to me to be a wild speculation.  The context of the "coaxing" is most likely that Barger and Hosty shared the same political views -- closer to the Radical Right.  

(6.1)  Whether Paul Barger himself was a member of the Friends of Walker group in Texas, or whether Barger was simply inspired to do whatever the FBI asked him to do, or some other coaxing, is secondary.

(7)  FURTHERMORE, to the degree that we have established that Paul Barger was dishonest -- then I do not need more logic to surmise that he was willing (on his own or at the request of James Hosty) to fudge the wording that he actually obtained from the wiretap.

(8) I note that the FBI did not supply the actual tape of the wire-tap (i.e. the T-4 informant).  That would of course remove all question about whether Paul Barger fudged the wording.

(9) Yet I will surmise here -- if the actual tape had supported Paul Barger's wording, then it is certain that the FBI would have supplied the tape.

(10) Conversely, the fact that the FBI withheld the actual tape is good evidence that the tape failed to match Paul Barger's written note.

(11) So, I feel confident -- on grounds of logic -- since Barger is a fibber, that he fudged Michael Paine's words.  Further, those words were fudged with a PURPOSE in mind -- namely, to accuse the Paines of being Communist accomplices of Lee Harvey Oswald.

(12) Now -- as for LHO's Walker Letter, which Marina Oswald had stored in her cookbook, and which Ruth unwittingly sent to Marina through the Irving Police -- that was WEEKS LATER -- and so had nothing to do with the wiretap of 11/22/1963.

(13) Also -- I completely disagree with your repeated suggestion that the CONTENT of the phone call was "not disputed."   On the contrary -- Michael Paine flatly disputed that CONTENT which accused Michael of knowing that LHO was JFK's killer.

(14) That simple statement by Barger -- that Michael Paine allegedly said that he knew that LHO was JFK's killer -- is a mammoth point -- and it distinctly and undeniably attempts to "frame" Michael Paine of conspiracy in the JFK assassination.

(15)  Who would have done this?  Only the real JFK Kill Team.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited March 22, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[James DiEugenio]

Ruth did not work for US AID to my knowledge.

Her father did.  He was regional director for all of Latin America.  There is evidence that his reports went to CIA.

Ruth told Garrison that her father was on leave to ICA.  Which also was CIA related.  (Destiny Betrayed,second edition, p. 197)

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

BTW, the idea that Trejo and DVP would not be impressed by anything Parker digs up elicits a big yawn.

I mean, what has impressed DVP about anything that contravenes the WCR?  I mean if this guy still buy the SBT after the work of Grant and Randich, and the discoveries of John Hunt etc, then he is simply incurable.

And if he still buys the whole WC story about the MC, after the work of David Josephs and Armstrong and Gil Jesus, I mean please, give us all a break.

Its the wrong rifle, the wrong bullet and the wrong brain.

But just remember Davey, tell your buddy Paul, "Walker did all that."  Just to keep him on your side.  He won't know your kidding him.

Edited March 22, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

BTW,  notice how PT does not acknowledge that Ruthie told Mallon one thing and him another about what that enigmatic call meant.

Joe, please ask her.  She will likely tell you something else.

Won't matter to PT in the least. Three answers to the same question, fine with him.  Its Ruthie Pie.

 

[James DiEugenio]

What do you think Davey, is three enough?  Or would it take four to bother you?

[David Von Pein]

Jimmy D. ACTUALLY thinks the work of Grant, Randich, and Hunt has totally destroyed the SBT. I love it!

Edited March 22, 2017 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

10 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

What do you think Davey, is three enough?  Or would it take four to bother you?

It'll take seven, Jimmy Boy. (To match the number of famous "filing cabinets" that you insist are important.)

Edited March 22, 2017 by David Von Pein

[Paul Trejo]

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

It'll take seven, Jimmy Boy. (To match the number of famous "filing cabinets" that you insist are important.)

David,

I'm glad you brought that up.   Dallas Deputy Buddy Walthers claimed that he found "six or seven" (evidently he can't count that high) "metal filing cabinets full of records of Castro supporters" in Ruth Paine's garage.

Nobody else saw them.  Nobody ever photographed them.  Nobody ever listed them in the official DPD records or FBI records or any records.

Clearly, the myth of the "six or seven metal filing cabinets" was intended to fan the flames of suspicion that Michael and Ruth Paine were Communists.

It cannot be a coincidence that this myth was raised in the context of pretending that LHO was a Communist -- and in the context that the Paine's telephone was tapped on the very day of the JFK assassination.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited March 22, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[David Von Pein]

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/04/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-87.html#File-Cabinets

[Paul Trejo]

37 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/04/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-87.html#File-Cabinets

David,

You suggest in your reply that CTers invented the "six or seven metal filing cabinets."  

Now, I agree with you that the "six or seven metal filing cabinets" is a pitiful invention.  But it was not the CTers who invented it.

Instead, it was Dallas Deputy Buddy Walthers who invented it, and he was on active duty at the time of the JFK assassination.

Buddy Walthers was also at Dealey Plaza on 11/22/1963.

His famous claim that he saw "six or seven metal filing cabinets" full of files of Castro supporters in Ruth Paine's garage, was made on the day of the JFK murder.

So -- completely aside from the CTers who arose for decades after the fact, David, do you have a comment on Buddy Walthers?

Because, IMHO, it sure sounds like Buddy Walthers was trying to pin a charge on Ruth and Michael Paine.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[David Von Pein]

21 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

David,

You suggest in your reply that CTers invented the "six or seven metal filing cabinets."  

That's not what I said at all. What I said is....

"It's very likely just another one of the dozens of myths that conspiracy theorists love to tout as true about the JFK case. And according to what Ruth Paine herself said in a public appearance on September 13, 2013, the story about the "seven file boxes of Cuba sympathizers' names" was a completely bogus story from the get-go."

I didn't say that CTers invented the cabinets or the story. I just said it was one of the myths that CTers "love to tout as true", even though it's obviously not true.

 

Quote

Completely aside from the CTers who arose for decades after the fact, David, do you have a comment on Buddy Walthers?

I think Walthers saw some material in the Paine garage and misinterpreted its contents. Walthers himself said he never went through the material, so he doesn't know what the boxes really contained. And I think I make a pretty good case for at least some of that material belonging to OSWALD, not the Paines.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/04/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-87.html#File-Cabinets

Edited March 22, 2017 by David Von Pein

[James DiEugenio]

Oh really, did Walthers also invent the FBI report from Luby's Restaurant with Mike Paine talking to SMU students to see if they sympathized with Castro?  And, after he was dead, did he also invent the notes Ruth took down in Nicaragua?

Keep it up Davy, one day you will be able to explain why Todd's initials aren't on the bullet too.

What was your last excuse for that, on yeah oxidization? 

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-impossible-one-day-journey-of-ce-399

Edited March 22, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

 

 

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

 

After looking at those two episodes, only DVP and PT will not understand the connection.