Michael Clark

Cases for one Oswald

14 posts in this topic

I have read about a number of situations that speak to the possibility of there being two Oswalds. Some of them I have no other explanation for other than the existence of a second Oswald. I thought I would open a thread for those who don't believe in a second Oswald to make their case in specific circumstances. I don't want to try to control the discussion so I'll ask for non believers to offer explanations for particular instances where a good explanation can be offered that runs counter to a two Oswald theory. I won't ask for explanations for the specific situations I am thinking of and I just hope they might be addressed.

So, non-believers in the 2 Oswald theory, help me out here, please; what explanations do you have for some of these circumstances. 

Let me just request some explanation for the Oswald that can drive a car and the one that can't.

Cheers,

Michael

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Alright, I lied. I'll ask for an explanation to a specific situation. Can someone explain what happened at the furniture mart? 

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Michael,

I think it's smart to ask for innocent explanations for specific two-Oswald situations. Otherwise we will end up re-arguing the same situations that have already been argued in the TWO MARGUERITES thread.

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

Alright, I lied. I'll ask for an explanation to a specific situation. Can someone explain what happened at the furniture mart? 

Michael,

IMHO, there are always at least two "innocent" possibilities:

1 )  Mistaken identity / faulty memory + Imagination-based embellishment or "filling in the gaps"

2 )  Prevarication 

--  Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Posted (edited)

The Albert Guy Bogard, Lincoln Mercury, wild Daytona 500 racing test drive story was the one that grabbed me somewhat in regards to possible fake Oswald's being seen in and around Dallas before 11,22,1963 .

This salesman guy Bogard seemed so sure about personally meeting, talking to and interacting with the same Lee Harvey Oswald he had seen so much in the news.

Didn't Bogard's boss somewhat verify Bogard's tale?

However, the card that Bogard wrote Oswald's name and number on is tossed away before 11,22,1963?  Really?

But still, there was just enough simple working class sincerity and mundane specifics in Bogard's tale for amateur Conan Doyle deduction minded sleuths like me to not dismiss the possible Oswald double theory out of hand.

Then there were the Ruby girls who supposedly saw Oswald in the Carousel club before 11,22,1963.  Beverly Oliver claimed this.

And Oliver says co-worker- Dolly Parton look-a-like stripper Janet Conforto ( "Jada" )  was also introduced to Oswald at the club but was too terrified to state this in public. 

And there's the account of the Carousel comedian punching a Lee Harvey Oswald look-a-like guy over his shouting that he ( the emcee )  was a commie and that Ruby came over to this look-a-like and tossed him down the stairs.

There is even a picture on the internet which shows a kind of sloshed smiling Oswald look-a-like in the Carousel. I must admit I see some decent similarities there.

Personally I know I'll never come close to knowing anything close to the truth in this area so I leave it to those who have done some decent research.

But, I still feel the possibility is there, based simply on the complex planning that must have gone into the plot itself. These planners were serious minded people thinking on so many levels. 

Edited by Joe Bauer

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Posted (edited)

34 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

The Albert Guy Bogard, Lincoln Mercury, wild Daytona 500 racing test drive story was the one that grabbed me somewhat in regards to possible fake Oswald's being seen in and around Dallas before 11,22,1963 .

This salesman guy Bogard seemed so sure about personally meeting, talking to and interacting with the same Lee Harvey Oswald he had seen so much in the news.

Didn't Bogard's boss somewhat verify Bogard's tale?

However, the card that Bogard wrote Oswald's name and number on is tossed away before 11,22,1963?  Really?

But still, there was just enough simple working class sincerity and mundane specifics in Bogard's tale for amateur Conan Doyle deduction minded sleuths like me to not dismiss the possible Oswald double theory out of hand.

Then there were the Ruby girls who supposedly saw Oswald in the Carousel club before 11,22,1963.  Beverly Oliver claimed this.

And Oliver says co-worker- Dolly Parton look-a-like stripper Janet Conforto ( "Jada" )  was also introduced to Oswald at the club also but was too terrified to state this in public. 

And there's the account of the Carousel comedian punching a Lee Harvey Oswald look-a-like guy over his shouting that he ( the emcee )  was a commie and that Ruby came over to this look-a-like and tossed him down the stairs.

There is even a picture on the internet which shows a kind of sloshed smiling Oswald look-a-like in the Carousel. I must admit I see some decent similarities there.

Personally I know I'll never come close to knowing anything close to the truth in this area so I leave it to those who have done some decent research.

But, I still feel the possibility is there, based simply on the complex planning that must have gone into the plot itself. These planners were serious minded people thinking on so many levels. 

Joe,

Trust a car salesman?

LOL

--  Tommy :sun

PS  I used to be one.

Edited by Thomas Graves

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9 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Trust a car salesman?

LOL

--  Tommy :sun

LOL, good point.

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9 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

I have read about a number of situations that speak to the possibility of there being two Oswalds. Some of them I have no other explanation for other than the existence of a second Oswald. I thought I would open a thread for those who don't believe in a second Oswald to make their case in specific circumstances. I don't want to try to control the discussion so I'll ask for non believers to offer explanations for particular instances where a good explanation can be offered that runs counter to a two Oswald theory. I won't ask for explanations for the specific situations I am thinking of and I just hope they might be addressed.

So, non-believers in the 2 Oswald theory, help me out here, please; what explanations do you have for some of these circumstances. 

Let me just request some explanation for the Oswald that can drive a car and the one that can't.

Cheers,

Michael

Michael,

 

I have not done research in this area, so I can't comment intelligently, but I wonder if anyone has done a cross-reference between the sightings of a second Oswald and the kind of car he was supposedly driving. Are there any two instances when he was "observed" driving the same kind of car?

 

Also, to the best of my knowledge, there aren't any occasions of a second sighting, at the same time, but in two different locations. I don't know of any instance where Person X says, "I saw Oswald at 3:00 PM here", but Person Y speaks up and says, "No, that can't be because I saw him at 3:00 PM here", all the while the real Oswald is working at Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall, or visiting Marina or whatever.

 

PS: I've always been intrigued by the sightings at the radio station in Alice, Texas. There were at least two witnesses, separated by at least 24 hours, weren't there?

 

Steve Thomas

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7 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Michael,

I think it's smart to ask for innocent explanations for specific two-Oswald situations. Otherwise we will end up re-arguing the same situations that have already been argued in the TWO MARGUERITES thread.

Thanks Sandy, I was definitely trying to avoid bickering. So, I was thinking that maybe people who have some explanation for why  they think an of-cited second Oswald incident need not be what it seems. 

For example, at the furniture mart, maybe someone has a good explanation for the problem.

I guess I was a bit optimistic when I posted this, last night. I am not so optimistic this morning. I guess any responses will just be that someone is lying, and bickering will ensue.

Cheers,

Michael

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7 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Michael,

IMHO, there are always at least two "innocent" possibilities:

1 )  Mistaken identity / faulty memory + Imagination-based embellishment or "filling in the gaps"

2 )  Prevarication 

--  Tommy :sun

Thanks Tommy, I am guessing that that is what this post will revolve around if it is not allowed to die.

Cheers,

Michael

 

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

The Albert Guy Bogard, Lincoln Mercury, ........

Personally I know I'll never come close to knowing anything close to the truth in this area so I leave it to those who have done some decent research.

But, I still feel the possibility is there, based simply on the complex planning that must have gone into the plot itself. These planners were serious minded people thinking on so many levels. 

Thanks Joe,

 

Edited by Michael Clark

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24 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Michael,

 

I have not done research in this area, so I can't comment intelligently, but I wonder if anyone has done a cross-reference between the sightings of a second Oswald and the kind of car he was supposedly driving. Are there any two instances when he was "observed" driving the same kind of car?

 

Also, to the best of my knowledge, there aren't any occasions of a second sighting, at the same time, but in two different locations. I don't know of any instance where Person X says, "I saw Oswald at 3:00 PM here", but Person Y speaks up and says, "No, that can't be because I saw him at 3:00 PM here", all the while the real Oswald is working at Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall, or visiting Marina or whatever.

 

PS: I've always been intrigued by the sightings at the radio station in Alice, Texas. There were at least two witnesses, separated by at least 24 hours, weren't there?

 

Steve Thomas

Steve,

I wish I had taken notes from the beginning when I started reading WC testimonies; with specific attention to times and places for a bunch of characters.

It would also be interesting to nail-down all the accounts regarding Lee's ability to drive. I have seen several opportunities for doing this but it was not done, at least in the the testimonies I have read. Perhaps the WC did some questioning, at some point, with an eye towards nailing this down.

When a friend or family member asks me what I have been up to, and I respond that I have been reading, I like to have a response when asked what kind of stuff I have been reading. I can usually bring up a interesting tid-bit to validate their curiosity. With this case, it's difficult to bring up anything without invoking a dark cloud. The dual Oswal angle would be an interesting part of the tale but I have nothing solid, in terms of having a casual tale to tell in mixed company.

 

Cheers,

Michael

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Michael,

I believe that mistaken witnesses may account for all of the unexplained LHO sightings, most of which are dismissible on close examination. Such sightings after a publicized event are common. In 2015 in New York State, authorities put out an alert for the public’s help in finding two prison escapees. There were over 2000 sightings of which 2 had merit. This article discusses the subject of false sightings in general:

http://www.seeker.com/ny-fugitive-sightings-highlight-eyewitness-errors-1769962422.html

Here is a piece I did several years ago-scroll down to “Eyewitness Testimony Questionable”:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/parnell/h%26l1.htm

 Unfortunately, theorists like John Armstrong use these sightings to their advantage.

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Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

Let me just request some explanation for the Oswald that can drive a car and the one that can't.

See "The Man Who Could--and Couldn't--Drive....

http://harveyandlee.net/Driving/Drive.htm

To make a long story short, American-born Lee Oswald had a valid Texas driver's license; Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald didn't.  The Furniture Mart episode is discussed in the same write-up.

Edited by Jim Hargrove

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