Alexandra Zapruder Book: Part 2

[Jeff Carter]

54 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Interesting Jeff...  I've spoken with Chris a number of times and don't remember his mentioning that....  I too thought Sat's Dino event was 20 hours after the film is in DC...

Quite a lot can be done in 20 hours....   Any thoughts about the 48fps speed throughout?

hi David

you say "quite a lot can be done in 20 hours" a little too casually. NPIC and Hawkeye were working primarily with U2 / satellite input, not motion picture. If something was so obvious to know to remove relatively immediately, then wouldn't have the film just been seized in the first place, no copies made.

 

48 fps, as you have established, would allow for fairly seamless frame removal after the fact. Here's what makes me pause: at 16fps projection, the sequence would play back at a full 3 times slowed down (i.e. the approx 7 second shooting sequence would be 21 seconds). A fair amount of people saw the film Friday, and a number have discussed that experience, but I don't recall anyone who even hinted it played before them in slow motion, even though it would be one of the most obvious things.

[David Josephs]

52 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:

hi David

you say "quite a lot can be done in 20 hours" a little too casually. NPIC and Hawkeye were working primarily with U2 / satellite input, not motion picture. If something was so obvious to know to remove relatively immediately, then wouldn't have the film just been seized in the first place, no copies made.

 

48 fps, as you have established, would allow for fairly seamless frame removal after the fact. Here's what makes me pause: at 16fps projection, the sequence would play back at a full 3 times slowed down (i.e. the approx 7 second shooting sequence would be 21 seconds). A fair amount of people saw the film Friday, and a number have discussed that experience, but I don't recall anyone who even hinted it played before them in slow motion, even though it would be one of the most obvious things.

There sure is precious little said about those viewing as well...   From what I remember they showed the film at Kodak at much higher speeds.  And yes, for alteration to work some of what we know to be true according to Zapruder, can't be.  What I find equally puzzling is how a 16fps camera can move at 18fps when to that point weren't projectors showing at 16?

Other than the variable models which ran at 15fps-25fps, projectors ran at 16fps to match the camera speeds which I believe were changing to 18fps right around 1963...

I find the conclusion of 18.3 fps just another FBI trick to accomplish what was necessary.

To me, this suggests he started filming the motorcade well before what we see on z133.  And if so, then we must deal with Pos A and everything that suggests. Even without the statement, POS A remains a wrench in the works.  I'd suggest reading Shaneyfelt's testimony and the "MATH RULES" thread.  There is nothing right about POS A yet it was important enough to include in the "4th survey to debunk them all" with photos and everything...

Any ideas?

Mr. LIEBELER - And it proceeded then down Elm Street toward the triple underpass; is that correct?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - That's correct. I started shooting--when the motorcade started coming in, I believe I started and wanted to get it coming in from Houston Street.

 

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[Chris Davidson]

3 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

hi Chris

I have to admit I find many of your posts rather cryptic.

Did you have a chance to see the article, particularly the section on the Z-film not being a clock (spring-wound camera)?

Hi Jeff,

I'll make it less cryptic. 

This first gif is 33 frames.

The limo moves forward in every frame.

Use a movie program and step it frame x frame. 

 

 

 

 

[Chris Davidson]

The extant zfilm shows this as frame span 184-195 =12 frames.

[Chris Davidson]

If I wanted to pull 2/3 of the frames from the first gif, it would look like this:

 

[Chris Davidson]

A simple pressing down of the fps button on the B/H 414 moves you from 16/18 to 48fps.

 

 

[Jeff Carter]

If there is anything "new", or at least developed in more detail than previously done, in my Part 2 essay - it is about the properties of the Zapruder spring-wound camera, and the implications regarding the "average" camera speed (18.3 fps). The section is called The Zapruder Camera Is Not A Clock.

I expected a few questions on that topic.

FWIW, I doubt those Bell & Howells ever ran at (approx) 16fps, they were closer to (approx) 18fps. But that has to be understood in terms of its "constantly varying operating speed."

[Jeff Carter]

6 hours ago, David Josephs said:

There sure is precious little said about those viewing as well...   From what I remember they showed the film at Kodak at much higher speeds.  And yes, for alteration to work some of what we know to be true according to Zapruder, can't be.  What I find equally puzzling is how a 16fps camera can move at 18fps when to that point weren't projectors showing at 16?

Other than the variable models which ran at 15fps-25fps, projectors ran at 16fps to match the camera speeds which I believe were changing to 18fps right around 1963...

I find the conclusion of 18.3 fps just another FBI trick to accomplish what was necessary.

To me, this suggests he started filming the motorcade well before what we see on z133.  And if so, then we must deal with Pos A and everything that suggests. Even without the statement, POS A remains a wrench in the works.  I'd suggest reading Shaneyfelt's testimony and the "MATH RULES" thread.  There is nothing right about POS A yet it was important enough to include in the "4th survey to debunk them all" with photos and everything...

Any ideas?

Mr. LIEBELER - And it proceeded then down Elm Street toward the triple underpass; is that correct?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - That's correct. I started shooting--when the motorcade started coming in, I believe I started and wanted to get it coming in from Houston Street.

 

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8MM SILENT PROJECTOR & CAMERA OUTFIT

• Standard 8mm Bell and Howell complete home movie outfit with 253AX projector (completely refurbished), camera with sundial, and flood lights. All in New condition with all original factory packing in the original boxes. Projector features 400' reel capacity, set running speed of 16 frames per second, forward projection only. Using the DFC, DFA or DCH 150 watt 120 volt bulb and 1 inch f1.6 lens. Like New condition and runs beautifully. With all instruction books, 400' reel and test film. Camera, projector and flood lights in perfect working condition and ready to use - $349   (No Discount)

We are looking at the same data but with different reference frames. You and Chris D are seeing the plats etc through the frame of Z-film alteration, while I (and others) see them as attempts to in effect pound a square peg (shot sequence evidence seen in Z-film) through a round hole (three shots/one bolt action rifle).

The clue I think most important is that the Secret Service were intent, at NPIC Brugioni event, to determine timings between perceived shots. They insisted even after Pearse told them it was a useless effort if they were trying to be accurate. So now the investigators are counting frames. It gets determined that the bolt action rifle needs minimum 2.8 seconds to operate (Frazier FBI says 4.6 seconds to fire two shots, add one second if moving target) which is understood as about 50 Z-frames (at original determination of 18fps). 

So this is how I understand all these original measurements- they were trying to create a shooting scenario which fit the characteristics of the found rifle. Does anyone see Connally first hit at Z-264, or even Z-242? These are among the scenarios being measured. A late shot beyond Z-312? Being considered because one can plausibly count the frames and say Oswald did it. How many of these surveys went down? I count three or four, which change the parameters every time.

[Michael Walton]

To summarize Davidson's theory, he believes Z had his camera set to record at 48 FPS. Then, for some unexplained, unknown reason, 67% of the frames were removed  and supposedly in those 67% of frames the evidence of conspiracy  was removed.

What he has failed  to  reveal  to this day is *what* was removed during this 67% solution  that would have been so revealing to have gone  through  this whole  convoluted  process?

Even  if Z had recorded at 200 FPS the film shows that the SBT could not have happened  like the WR says. So we're  expected to believe that this 67% solution  happened  yet they still left in the part the part that reveals  the SBT being impossible?

The most he posts is pictures and clips and animated gifs with incomplete  phrases and expects readers of this board to decipher  what he's  trying  very hard to say.

[David Josephs]

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 10:03 PM, Jeff Carter said:

We are looking at the same data but with different reference frames. You and Chris D are seeing the plats etc through the frame of Z-film alteration, while I (and others) see them as attempts to in effect pound a square peg (shot sequence evidence seen in Z-film) through a round hole (three shots/one bolt action rifle).

The clue I think most important is that the Secret Service were intent, at NPIC Brugioni event, to determine timings between perceived shots. They insisted even after Pearse told them it was a useless effort if they were trying to be accurate. So now the investigators are counting frames. It gets determined that the bolt action rifle needs minimum 2.8 seconds to operate (Frazier FBI says 4.6 seconds to fire two shots, add one second if moving target) which is understood as about 50 Z-frames (at original determination of 18fps). 

So this is how I understand all these original measurements- they were trying to create a shooting scenario which fit the characteristics of the found rifle. Does anyone see Connally first hit at Z-264, or even Z-242? These are among the scenarios being measured. A late shot beyond Z-312? Being considered because one can plausibly count the frames and say Oswald did it. How many of these surveys went down? I count three or four, which change the parameters every time.

Jeff,

Agree totally that after the fact the FBI tries to fit a round peg in a square hole.  Take more than 3 shots and represent them as 3.  What was most difficult is that 2 shots were fired very closely together between z195 and z224.  29 frames a little over 1.5 seconds.  Then they were combined into one since there was no way to fit those 2 shots into the scenario.  

If the film was altered, do we agree that clues to that occurring would be left while other clues could and would be suppressed/altered/replaced...  those who see the film that weekend - correct me if I'm wrong - give us precious little to go on...  Dino's commentary is also a cliff notes version of all the things that film showed.  Chamberlain, Rather, Stolley, etc... supposedly see an unaltered film.  They watched the original 16mm very fast and then again when it was a copy and 8mm slit.

I appreciate your characterization of our frame of mind, though there seems to be a missing slice you've not touched upon.  

3 surveys prior to the WC one in May placed shots in a variety of locations...  Consistent with all three is the fact z313 is shot #2 in their 3 shot sequence with another shot at the foot of the knoll stairs...  Altgens and Hudson corroborate.  Granted the surveys are done at the direction of the FBI, WEST comments that these people haven/t a clue what their doing if they want a TRUE SURVEY...

 

We must also accept that the "original" in the archives is as far from an intact original as possible...  0183 does not appear on the film in the archives...  it is only inferred by the copying of that number... albeit copied to the wrong place on the SS film.  We are left with well more film than a 16mm spool has, numerous splices both physical and photographic and yet we are asked to accept that this 9' section of film, 6+ feet or so of the assassination, is somehow directly connected to the in-camera original.

You don't find that a bit troubling?  Someone took the ORIGINAL film and just cut away everything else but the assassination sequence leaving no way to authenticate it.

One must wonder if the film accurately depicted what occurred what the need for re-enactments, for TIME/LIFE, Secret Service & FBI (WCD298) was?  You also did not seem to touch upon Zapruder's partner Erwin Schwartz and the conflicts in the timeline he interjects...  or the fact that Jaggers - a full functional photo and film lab with DoD contracts - is right there in Dealey Plaza and could have been utilized in this endeavor.   Just some speculation...

Bottom line, what bothers me most is the way the SS and FBI made sure to control the visuals coming out...  they confiscated cameras, photos, and the people taking them in some cases.  But not Zapruders?  They treated him with kid gloves despite his having the best filmed evidence, which would have been evident after the first viewing.

Do you truly believe the US Govt allowed this evidence to remain in Dallas, unattended, on the word of Zapruder and his partner?  I find that to be completely inconsistent with their behavior in every other aspect of their "investigation".  

Then there's this...  I realize this is not a first gen scan of the frame... yet blacks tend to behave uniformly when applying filters... if they get crushed out, then they crush out everywhere...  This has been described by those who have analyzed it as a "black mark hovering over the photo" in stereoscope.  It covers the exact spot needing to be covered.  Others have shown Z359 inwhich you can see the right rear wound without the black mark covering it...

There are a number of other examples...  the evidence of what exactly happened with the film cannot be authenticated.  Just like the multiple casket deliveries even with the evidence staring one in the face there remains detractors to the theory.  I contend the film we have shows alteration, drastic alteration in fact.  If you can offer proof or explanation for the film having all those splices, no 0183, and no physical relationship to the rest of the "original" I'm more than ears.

Arguing that there was no time to alter or that someone would/should say something if they saw a different film (which a handful of people DID see) plays into the hands of the conspirators IMHO.   To think the one unaltered item of evidence is the film which shows the entire thing, when the entirety of the evidence offered cannot be authenticated in virtually every single case, stretches the bounds of reality a bit too far for me to accept.

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes. Since it was not practical to stop the projector when using the original of the Zapruder film, because of the possibility of damage to the film, Mr. Orth volunteered to prepare 35-mm. color slides directly from the original movie of all of the pertinent frames of the assassination which were determined to be frames 171 through 434. 

In fact, 168-171 becomes 161-166 in CE884.  Nothing of importance occurs from frame #1-171 nor 435-486?
I could get into the math, but not going to here...  the MATH RULES thread takes care of that...

I think if you were to look very seriously at POS A Jeff and what its significance is, you may start to see things differently...

 

 

 

.

Now I understand that there were more than 3 shots fired yet the scenarios only require 3.  A shot which may have occurred as the limo finishes turning onto Elm (POS A) has been removed.  Now whether that was the 156/157 break, it does appear that Hickey and Willis are reacting to a shot.  Hickey looks down by the limo while Rosemary is looking toward that location.  The film shows it better.  

 

In any case, there must be a reason for what Shaneyfelt does with CE884 and why CE585 is played down.

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by David Josephs

[David Josephs]

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 3:48 AM, Michael Walton said:

To summarize Davidson's theory, he believes Z had his camera set to record at 48 FPS. Then, for some unexplained, unknown reason, 67% of the frames were removed  and supposedly in those 67% of frames the evidence of conspiracy  was removed.

What he has failed  to  reveal  to this day is *what* was removed during this 67% solution  that would have been so revealing to have gone  through  this whole  convoluted  process?

Even  if Z had recorded at 200 FPS the film shows that the SBT could not have happened  like the WR says. So we're  expected to believe that this 67% solution  happened  yet they still left in the part the part that reveals  the SBT being impossible?

The most he posts is pictures and clips and animated gifs with incomplete  phrases and expects readers of this board to decipher  what he's  trying  very hard to say.

Micheal...  Chris and I have been discussing this for quite some time now.

Let's take 1/4 of a second.  at 48fps we get 12 frames in that time.  at 16fps we get 4 frames.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 = 1/4 sec 
1       2       3        4            = 1/4 sec

If you remove frames 2,3,5,6,8,9,11,& 12 from the 48fps film you get a normal speed film that looks identical to playing the 48fps at 48fps.

Instead of removing 2/3 of the frame, they removed a few less than that... OR only portions of the film were done at 48fps... the B&H switched on the fly with the push of a button...

The images we post and the math done explains what the FBI and SS did with the Survey's and exhibits - what connection it has to the film is not readily apparent.  In fact he, using the work from Tom Purvis, shows that these surveys and conclusions have little at all to do with what we see on the film.  There was, in fact, 2 main problems with these recreations and ultimately with CE884. First, the 10" height difference between JFK and the recreation car was never accounted for in the measurements:

 

and second, Shaneyfelt moved his limo path off the established path in such a manner that JFK at z166 on the film lines up with z171 on the FBI path.  This is where it gets somewhat confusing for sure.  The extant 168 shows the limo already passing the lane stripe.  Passing a line (grey) thru JFK at extent 168 (red line) brings us to where Shaneyfelt moved the limo for JFK at z171 (green line).  Except that's not where the limo was in the film.  This movement south from the original locations continues both up and down Elm.  The paths diverge at POS A and come back to gether at Z313.

Finally, this shows the 7 different locations for the 3 shots depending on which report you look at...  You can also see the re-converging of the 2 paths at z313

 

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by David Josephs

[Jeff Carter]

hi David J

It’s my understanding that the private Zapruder footage in the Z-film was returned to the family, while the motorcade sequence was sent to the Sixth Floor Museum, after its official validation. The head and tail leaders tabulated in the handwritten note from 1997 are typical presentation for an archival film.

IMO, Zapruder kept his film initially because he articulated his property rights and was also cooperative.

If the Zapruder camera was shifted from RUN to SLOW MOTION during the assassination sequence, the transition from 16fps to 48fps would not have been immediate but ramped (gradual). 

Any calculations using the Zapruder film to determine time-based measurements such as mph of vehicles are at best “ballpark”.

Regardless, we both arrive at the same conclusion: the apparent shooting sequence cannot be reconciled with the lone nut three shots bolt action rifle paradigm.

[George Sawtelle]

Jeff 

Those folks who did the cover-up recognized that ... the apparent sequence cannot be reconciled with the lone nut three shots bolt action rifle paradigm. That´s why the Zap film was edited.

When we fully understand the briefing board action we know that the film was altered. Horne laid it out for us, all we have to do is tweak Horne´s revelations.

[George Sawtelle]

Jeff

Another way to look at it.

The HSCA concluded that there was a 95% possibility that the assassination of JFK was a result of a conspiracy.

That means there is a 5% possibility that it was a lone nut. That´s plausible deniability. With plausible deniability beyond a reasonable doubt goes out the window. That is all the CIA really wanted. 

Eventhough the alteration left a lot to be desired, it gave them plausible deniability.

[David Josephs]

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 9:03 PM, Jeff Carter said:

If the Zapruder camera was shifted from RUN to SLOW MOTION during the assassination sequence, the transition from 16fps to 48fps would not have been immediate but ramped (gradual). 

As I understood it Jeff...  the switch is immediate...  and if you add up the time and amount of film... there would have been no need to run off 19' of film to end the roll, at 48fps over 1274 frames of side B would have been used.  divide by 48/18.3 = 2.623 and you get 486 frames.