A Couple of Real Gems from the "Harvey and Lee" Website

[Michael Walton]

So you're saying it's good but haven't quite taken the plunge and ordered it?

[Sandy Larsen]

On 6/9/2017 at 7:05 AM, W. Tracy Parnell said:

On 6/8/2017 at 10:57 AM, David Josephs said:

One more thread of "coincidence" is that Paul Roderick Gregory went to STRIPLING JR HIGH in 1953/54, Robert Oswald claims his brother went to Stripling that year.

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/04/robert-oswald-and-stripling.html

Tracy,

Early on in this and Armstrong's thread, I read your article on something and found your arguments to be lacking. So I quit reading your articles.

However I have continued to read your posts here because they are short and to the point. (In other words, I don't have to read a lengthy article to get your take on something.)

If you wish to convey your points to me, you'll have to post them here and not just link to an article. If you'd rather not do that, that's your right. I'm informing you of this only so you'll know. You should consider that there may be other readers who feel the same as I do.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 6/9/2017 at 8:46 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

Even more laughable is Mr. Parnell’s attempt to dismiss the evidence that Oswald attended Stripling School, memorialized in his amusingly short and incomplete Web essay:

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/04/robert-oswald-and-stripling.html

I decided to read that Parnell article because Jim said it was short, and that it was "laughable." I figured I may not learn anything from it, but it might be funny. And it was short, so what the heck.

I found that the article doesn't have any argument at all! It just says that all the witnesses are wrong. With nothing to back it up.

Which did elicit a smile and quick chuckle from me.

 

[Michael Walton]

So I guess meanwhile, while you think Parnell's article has no merit, you do believe in this outlandish story regarding Oswald, his clone, and two clones' Moms, one smiling and one with a unibrow?

Isn't that like calling the kettle black?

[Sandy Larsen]

5 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

So I guess meanwhile, while you think Parnell's article has no merit, you do believe in this outlandish story regarding Oswald, his clone, and two clones' Moms, one smiling and one with a unibrow?

Isn't that like calling the kettle black?

Armstrong presents a lot of evidence for his theory that apparently cannot be disputed (at least not credibly so). Parnell doesn't. So there is no calling the kettle black.

I follow the evidence. I don't give a whit about the inclinations of the ignorati. (That is, people who refuse to consider that the U.S. government might assassinate leaders of other countries; that the CIA might be partially funded by illicit drug trade; that the CIA might secretly experiment on it citizens with dangerous drugs; that the CIA might have a doppelganger program involving youths.)

That doesn't mean that Armstrong is right about everything. For example, I see no reason for him to believe that the Oswald impersonator running around Dallas was the same person as the young LEE Oswald.

 

Edited June 11, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[W. Tracy Parnell]

3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Tracy,

Early on in this and Armstrong's thread, I read your article on something and found your arguments to be lacking. So I quit reading your articles.

However I have continued to read your posts here because they are short and to the point. (In other words, I don't have to read a lengthy article to get your take on something.)

If you wish to convey your points to me, you'll have to post them here and not just link to an article. If you'd rather not do that, that's your right. I'm informing you of this only so you'll know. You should consider that there may be other readers who feel the same as I do.

 

Well, that's sort of the point of doing the articles-so I don't have to make the same arguments on forums over and over. But I have been warned that you may not read them so -ok.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

9 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

I am betting that the book is worth every penny.

The book is of some value for research purposes, especially when coupled with the Baylor website. But there are many errors, missing and incorrect citations etc. And of course, the thesis is nonsense.

[Jim Hargrove]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Armstrong presents a lot of evidence for his theory that apparently cannot be disputed (at least not credibly so). Parnell doesn't. So there is no calling the kettle black.

I follow the evidence. I don't give a whit about the inclinations of the ignorati. (That is, people who refuse to believe that the U.S. government would assassinate leaders of other countries; that the CIA could be partially funded by illicit drug trade; that the CIA would secretly experiment on it citizens with dangerous drugs; that the CIA could have a doppelganger program involving youths.)

Are you aware, Sandy, of the 1980’s entire crack cocaine epedemic / Contra / Oliver North / Gary Webb / CIA story? Do you know what happened during the 1980’s in L.A. during the CIA’s crack cocaine drug war? Do our G-men suck, or would you offer them solace?

 

Quote

That doesn't mean that Armstrong is right about everything. For example, I see no reason for him to believe that the Oswald impersonator running around Dallas was the same person as the young LEE Oswald.

 

True enough. But if you were a CIA drug lord knowledgeable about Harvey and Lee, who would you pick to impersonate Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald? Some newcomer with no experience in this case, unknown to the USG… or the guy whose identity Harvey had shared for more than a decade? I’m not alone here appreciating your honesty.

Thanks for being here, Sandy!

Edited June 11, 2017 by Jim Hargrove

[David Andrews]

12 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Marina said that she thought Oswald spoke Russian "with a Baltic accent" when she first met him in early 1961, but I'd take that with a grain of salt.  She was probably trying to hide her command of English during her earliest years here and wouldn't want to say that she and her future husband spoke English in the USSR.  

Spoke English on their first meeting*, and only that thereafter?  I had thought we were going with a bilingual-model defector.  The geographical coincidence is still interesting - though "Baltic" takes in a lot of Eastern geography.

+++

*Listen, I've chatted up foreign women, and believe me, one goes all-out with what little one knows, hoping for cute-puppy points.  I doubt that spies are immune to this, despite ulterior motives.

Edited June 11, 2017 by David Andrews

[Sandy Larsen]

38 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Are you aware, Sandy, of the 1980’s entire crack cocaine epedemic / Contra / Oliver North / Gary Webb / CIA story? Do you know what happened during the 1980’s in L.A. during the CIA’s crack cocaine drug war? Do our G-men suck, or would you offer them solace?

I'm only somewhat familiar with the CIA's involvement in the 1980s crack epidemic. I do recall hearing about it on the news back then. I actually lived in San Jose at the time and had a subscription to the SJ Mercury News. But I was too busy working on a startup company to spend time studying it. (Incidentally, it was the KRON television station in San Francisco that aired the investigative documentary based on Best Evidence in the late 1980s. San Jose is a suburb of San Francisco. Apparently the CIA had minimal influence on the media there.)

The Iran / Contra scandal and all the crap surrounding it was the impetus behind my conversion from conservatism to liberalism.

Anyway, I used to wonder how much truth there was to the allegations of the CIA funding its operation with drug money. Now it doesn't surprise me at all.

 

38 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

True enough.

But if you were a CIA drug lord knowledgeable about Harvey and Lee, who would you pick to impersonate Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald? Some newcomer with no experience in this case, unknown to the USG… or the guy whose identity Harvey had shared for more than a decade? I’m not alone here appreciating your honesty.

Thanks for being here, Sandy!

Thanks for the kind words, Jim.

Sure, it would make sense to use Lee Oswald to do some of those things. But that raises some questions. For example, was LEE still even working for the CIA? Doesn't John just assume he was? Was LEE willing to do the things that were asked of him? Isn't it possible that the plan was only for LEE to provide a verifiable history for HARVEY?

I haven't finish the book. But somebody commented that LEE was one of the assassins. What would the odds be that the boy selected by the CIA to play the role of LEE would grow up to be a cold blooded killer?

If I were the one who had concocted the Oswald Project, or who decided to use it against Kennedy, I wouldn't have insisted that every role opposite of HARVEY be performed by LEE. I would certainly have considered using other lookalikes when circumstances called for it.

 

[Michael Walton]

I follow the evidence. I don't give a whit about the inclinations of the ignorati.

Oh sure Sandy, sure. An incorrect "he was there, not here" and a "oh, look...look how this testimony says one thing and the other testimony says something completely different" and presto! you have a full-blown clone caper with unintentionally funny results.

Yeah, Sandy, you're a real junior G-man with this "evidence."  Bawwaaahaha!

[Jim Hargrove]

8 hours ago, David Andrews said:

Spoke English on their first meeting*, and only that thereafter?  I had thought we were going with a bilingual-model defector.  The geographical coincidence is still interesting - though "Baltic" takes in a lot of Eastern geography.

+++

*Listen, I've chatted up foreign women, and believe me, one goes all-out with what little one knows, hoping for cute-puppy points.  I doubt that spies are immune to this, despite ulterior motives.

Norman Mailer wrote a whole book about LHO, much of it about his time in Russia, and Mailer talked endlessly about real or imaginary dialog between Marina and Oswald, and not once did he hazard an opinion about what language they were speaking in.

[Jim Hargrove]

8 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Thanks for the kind words, Jim.

Sure, it would make sense to use Lee Oswald to do some of those things. But that raises some questions. For example, was LEE still even working for the CIA? Doesn't John just assume he was? Was LEE willing to do the things that were asked of him? Isn't it possible that the plan was only for LEE to provide a verifiable history for HARVEY?

I haven't finish the book. But somebody commented that LEE was one of the assassins. What would the odds be that the boy selected by the CIA to play the role of LEE would grow up to be a cold blooded killer?

If I were the one who had concocted the Oswald Project, or who decided to use it against Kennedy, I wouldn't have insisted that every role opposite of HARVEY be performed by LEE. I would certainly have considered using other lookalikes when circumstances called for it.

 

Probably because so much evidence has been suppressed, it’s pretty tough to prove that the fellow who set up “Harvey” as the patsy was “Lee,” but there are some decent indications.  For example, on November 2 a fellow saying he was LHO went to the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership in Dallas and test drove a car at recklessly high speeds and said he would soon come into enough money to be able to buy a new car.

I know that whenever I test drove a car from a dealer, I first had to produce a driver’s license, which, if memory serves, was usually photocopied by the sales rep.  But Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald famously did not have a driver’s license.  Not so famously, Lee Oswald apparently did have one.
 

Someone bearing at least a passing resemblance to Harvey Oswald was seen at various places on 11/22/63, including the sixth floor of the TSBD shortly before the assassination and at 10th and Patton during the Tippit killing.  (There’s obviously a lot of confusion from the eyewitness, but the closest observer, Domingo Benavides, thought the killer looked like LHO except for the back of his hair.)

Jack Ruby appears to have been far more involved in the actual assassination of JFK than we previously though, and there is a lot of evidence that American-born Lee Oswald was associated with him. Journalist Dorothy Kilgallen wrote in the New York Journal American (June 6, 1964): “It is known that 10 persons have signed sworn depositions to the Warren Commission that they knew Oswald and Ruby to have been acquainted.” 

[Michael Walton]

Yes, Jim - I do agree with you on the Oswald or Oswald look a like in that dance hall photo. Unfortunately, I posted that photo elsewhere on EF months ago and no one else seemed to agree that it looked like him. That's what I find maddening in this whole CT community - folks want to believe in everything - from this HL caper to all of the films being scooped up and altered, to Judy Baker and Bev Oliver to the body being whisked away by mad scientists before the official autopsy. But when you give them truly interesting and plausible info like the photo below or PM, then they don't WANT to believe that. Very, very strange how the CT human mind works.

But I do see the resemblance and I'm sure LHO did know Ruby, too, in some way leading up to 11/22.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Michael Walton

[W. Tracy Parnell]

18 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I decided to read that Parnell article because Jim said it was short, and that it was "laughable." I figured I may not learn anything from it, but it might be funny. And it was short, so what the heck.

I found that the article doesn't have any argument at all! It just says that all the witnesses are wrong. With nothing to back it up.

Which did elicit a smile and quick chuckle from me.

Sandy,

I have many irons in the fire right now and haven't had much time to respond here. However, Greg Parker has put up a couple of posts at his site that do a good job on the Stripling matter:

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1444-the-stripling-bullxxxx-rears-its-ugly-head-again

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1445-the-ignorati