A Couple of Real Gems from the "Harvey and Lee" Website

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Thomas Graves said:

7 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Sandy,

[...]

If there is a large group of "undecided" "Harvey and Lee" photos, and many of them go back before 1956, it argues for three possible explanations, imho -- one kinda "normal", and two really, really paranoiac ones:

1 )  The vast majority of the photos that "could go either way" were actually all of the same "Oswald," be it "Harvey", or "Lee".  As long as these photos don't go back before 1956 or so, they might even support Jon G. Tidd's theory that the Oswald "Double Project" started only when "Harvey" (the guy who ended up being killed by Jack Ruby on 11/24/63) joined the Marines.

2 )  Many of the "undecided" photos were altered by the bad guys to make the two easy-to-differentiate guys look virtually identical.

3 )  [Relax!  I'm working on it.  I haven't had my coffee yet.]  Oh yeah!  HARVEY AND LEE AND THE TWO MARGUERITES REALLY DID GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO 1947 OR SO.  [It's amazing what a little caffeine can do.]

--  Tommy

edited and bumped

 

Thanks Tommy.

I did read your possibilities and found them interesting. I didn't respond only because I don't have anything to add. I have a hard time making sense of the photos. I just know that 1) as a whole, the "Lee" USMC induction photo doesn't look like the Oswald killed by Ruby... yet individual parts of his face do look very similar; 2) the "dignified" photo(s) of Oswald (where he's wearing a suit IIRC) don't look like either "Lee" or "Harvey"... unless you cut them in half, make mirror copies, and attach those halves together; thus those seem seem to be composites; or is that just a coincidence?

I don't know.

 

[Michael Walton]

It looks like him, Sandy. Look at my animated GIF. The nose, mouth, chin, ears, brows all match up.  Even the cadet one with him smiling  a little bit matches up with the military and then 11/22.  People do change - surely you know that YOU don't like you do today like you did 5 or 6 years ago.

The thing that's holding you back as well as others, is no matter how obvious or plausible something is, you just can't see it for what it is...the truth. That's all it is.

And here we go again, Tom.  No grudges here.  It's not just Sandy - it's many, many many other people who think like him.

[Thomas Graves]

3 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

It looks like him, Sandy. Look at my animated GIF. The nose, mouth, chin, ears, brows all match up.  Even the cadet one with him smiling  a little bit matches up with the military and then 11/22.  People do change - surely you know that YOU don't like you do today like you did 5 or 6 years ago.

The thing that's holding you back as well as others, is no matter how obvious or plausible something is, you just can't see it for what it is...the truth. That's all it is.

And here we go again, Tom.  No grudges here.  It's not just Sandy - it's many, many many other people who think like him.

Well put, Mike.  Quite civilized, IMHO.

--  Tommy

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

David Josephs writes:

Quote

Do you suppose it's possible to address the topic without all the sarcasm?
 

Not really. I mean, it's what the topic deserves, isn't it? The 'Harvey and Lee and Marguerite and Marguerite' theory is a flimsy structure built on decades-old recollections, trivial anomalies in documents, and the subjective interpretation of photographs. The smallest breeze of critical examination, and the whole thing topples over, as the mastoidectomy issue illustrates. The theory is a joke, and a harmful one at that. It deserves to be made fun of.

Quote

We have a rich history of conspiracy, futile attempts at spycraft, successful attempts at spycraft and all the spycraft for which we are not aware.
 

I understand your repeated reluctance to state it clearly, but it really does look as though you are claiming that "the intelligence community" had had an unnecessary mastoidectomy performed on an imaginary six-year-old boy by an imaginary surgeon in an imaginary hospital, on the off-chance that the imaginary boy's imaginary body might need to be dug up decades later, as part of a hugely elaborate scheme in the remote hope that when the imaginary boy grew up he would turn out to resemble a completely unrelated six-year-old boy, who happened to have a mother with the same name as the imaginary mother of the imaginary boy. Mmm ... nothing far-fetched about any of that!

Unfortunately, but unsurprisingly, you have so far failed to produce a single piece of documentary evidence to show that any such unnecessary mastoidectomy took place, let alone that it was instigated by "the intelligence community". All we have is the irrational insinuation that, because "the intelligence community" does bad things, it must be capable of doing whatever ridiculously improbable things our imaginations can come up with. That's the same logical error that Jim Hargrove was caught making a little while ago.

Perhaps you would be kind enough to provide us with documentary evidence to support your suggestion that "the intelligence community" (or anyone else, for that matter, up to and including giant lizards) instigated an unnecessary mastoidectomy operation on the alleged 'Harvey', if that is what you believe happened.

Until such evidence materialises, the indisputable fact that a mastoidectomy had been performed on the body in Oswald's grave shows that the 'Harvey and Lee and Marguerite and Marguerite' theory is internally contradictory and therefore false.

 

[W. Tracy Parnell]

2 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

Perhaps you would be kind enough to provide us with documentary evidence to support your suggestion that "the intelligence community" (or anyone else, for that matter, up to and including giant lizards) instigated an unnecessary mastoidectomy operation on the alleged 'Harvey', if that is what you believe happened.

The only "evidence" they have ever offered is the statement of Louise Robertson that "Harvey" was scheduled to have mental tests at Jacobi Hospital in NYC. But the mental tests were a cover for a mastoid operation. Of course, all of this ignores the fact that Jacobi did not exist at the time. This new theory comes from Hargrove as Armstrong never mentioned to his readers that the exhumation disproved the H&L theory.

[Michael Walton]

I'm really starting to wonder - where is the genuine John Armstrong?  Why doesn't he ever post his own stuff here?  Instead he always uses Hargrove as his mouth piece for everything. It's almost as if he's the bah humbug guy behind the curtain while Hargrove does all of the clinking and clattering on here.

Or maybe - just maybe - is Hargrove just a fake person and it's really Armstrong? This inquiring mind wants to know.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Michael Walton

[W. Tracy Parnell]

50 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

I'm really starting to wonder - where is the genuine John Armstrong?  Why doesn't he ever post his own stuff here?  Instead he always uses Hargrove as his mouth piece for everything. It's almost as if he's the bah humbug guy behind the curtain while Hargrove does all of the clinking and clattering on here.

Or maybe - just maybe - is Hargrove just a fake person and it's really Armstrong? This inquiring mind wants to know.

His excuse used to be he wasn't "on the Internet" but that hardly holds water at this point. I say this for Jim, he has been a faithful follower for many years.

[Thomas Graves]

On 4/15/2017 at 7:26 AM, Michael Walton said:

I'm really starting to wonder - where is the genuine John Armstrong?  Why doesn't he ever post his own stuff here?  Instead he always uses Hargrove as his mouth piece for everything. It's almost as if he's the bah humbug guy behind the curtain while Hargrove does all of the clinking and clattering on here.

Or maybe - just maybe - is Hargrove just a fake person and it's really Armstrong? This inquiring mind wants to know.

Mikey,

I've got a sneakin' hunch Armstrong's got a nice big office in that special building in Saint Petersburg, Russia.  You know, the one that has one thousand or so Putin-controlled t-r-o-l-l-s working in it, in three shifts 'round the clock, churning out "Fake News" for both the Alt-Right and the Alt-Left, in a dialectically-divisive, "National Security State" versus "Deep State" engendering kind of way?

(lol)

--  Tommy

Edited April 16, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

21 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Mikey,

I've got a sneakin' hunch Armstrong's got a nice, big, all-expenses-paid office in that "special building" in Saint Petersburg, Russia.  You know, the one that has 500 or so Putin-controlled t-r-o-l-l-s working in it, three shifts 'round the clock, just-a churning out "Fake News" for both the Alt-Right and the Alt-Left, in a dialectically-divisive "Paranoiac National Security State" versus "Paranoiac Deep State" kind-of-way?  

I guess Buffalo Springfield was right, after all.-- "Paranoia strikes deep" ...... and  ....... "Nobody's right if everybody's wrong".

Just the way Putin likes it, though, you know, so he can stay in his body-guarded position of kleptomaniac power and get away with creating very internally-popular, fake-news-enabled wars against "Chechen Terrorists" (in the 1990's) and "Fascist Terrorists" ("hybrid warfare" invasion of eastern Ukraine which started in 2014, and which, btw, is still going on)? That's why, IMHO, he actively cultivates Alt-Right / Alt-Left fake news and disseminates it to those respective "news sources" in the U.S. via Putin-controlled RT (Russia Today) and Sputnik, which fake news is picked up on and elaborated upon by what the KGB calls (gullible, unwitting) "Useful Idiots" on both The Right and ... (... gulp ... yes) ... The Left.

Mind you, I'm not calling Armstrong and Hargrove and Josephs (and their ilk) Leftist "idiots".

It's just an expression used by the KGB to categorize what people like them on The Left (and their analogs on The Right) unwittingly .... do.

(lol)

--  Tommy

edited and bumped

edit:  Putin's Saint Petersburg, Russia (lol) ... T-r-o-l-l  F-a-c-t-o-r-y

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-xxxxx-house

 

Click on this and scroll down to see that THE GUARDIAN has "High" factual reporting according to mediabiasfactcheck. com:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-guardian/

 

 

Edited April 16, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Jim Hargrove]

On 4/13/2017 at 6:49 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

In the immortal words of Natalie Ray, asked by Liebeler if "Oswald" spoke to her in Russian:

Yes; just perfect; really surprised me... it's just too good speaking Russian to be such
a short time, you know.... I said, "How come you speak so good Russian? I been here so long
and still don't speak very well English."

Of course George De Mohrenschildt, a Russian immigrant and a teacher of Russian, said it
best:

Incidentally I never saw him interested in anything else except Russian
books and magazines. He said he didn't want to forget the language -
but it amazed me that he read such difficult writers like Gorki, Dostoevski,
Gogol, Tolstoi and Turgenieff - in Russian . As everyone knows Russian is
a complex language and he was supposed to have stayed in the Soviet Union
only a little over two years. He must have had some previous training and
that point had never been brought up by the Warren Committee - and it is
still puzzling to me. In my opinion Lee was a very bright person but not
a genius . He never mastered the English language yet he learned such a dif-
icult language! I taught Russian at all level in a large University, and
I never saw such a profficiency in the best senior students who constantly
listened to  Russian tapes and spoke to Russian fiends . As a matter of
fact American-born instructors never mastered Russian spoken language as
well as Lee did.

If you want to believe that "Lee Harvey Oswald" learned Russian with that level of
fluency by reading Russian newspapers in his spare time in the Marines and spending
two and a half years mostly working full-time in a factory in Russia, I've got
a bridge I'd like to sell you.

Just wondering, Tommy, how you explain this?

[Thomas Graves]

5 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Just wondering, Tommy, how you explain this?

James,

Oh, George de Mohrenschildt!

You mean the guy whom many serious students and researchers believe was Oswald's (unbeknownst to Oswald) CIA handler, who eventually handed his "useful idiot" off to ... mysterious Ruth Paine?

LOL

--  Tommy

Edited April 17, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Jim Hargrove]

On 4/4/2017 at 9:43 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

The Bolton Ford Incident

 

On January 20, 1961, while Harvey Oswald was in Minsk, two men visited the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans. They spoke with Assistant Manager Oscar Deslatte and said they were interested in purchasing 10 Ford Econoline Trucks. As one of the men discussed the purchase with Deslatte the other man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore, made a list of the equipment they desired on the trucks.

Deslatte went to his boss, truck manager Fred Sewell, and told him about the two men who wanted to purchase trucks and said they represented the "Free Democrats of Cuba or some such organization." Sewell told Deslatte to give the men a bid of $75 over their cost for the trucks. Deslatte and Sewell returned to Deslatte's desk and wrote out a bid form to Joseph Moore. As Deslatte was filling out the bid form, Joseph Moore and the other man began talking to both Deslatte and Sewell.⁴²

When Moore saw that Deslatte had written his name on the bid form he asked that the name be changed to "Friends of Democratic Cuba." Moore's friend looked· at the form and said, "By the way, you'd better put my name down there because I'm the man handling the money." When Deslatte asked, "What's your name?" the man replied, "Lee Oswald." ^61-04

 

Sewell described Lee Oswald as, "5-foot-6 or 5-foot-7, thin, about 140 pounds, and thought he needed a meal and a haircut. He recalled that Oswald was clean but "wasn't well dressed and he wasn't shabby." Sewell described the second man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore as, "Kind of heavy-set ..... not overly, but well built ..... he was curly haired ..... he had a scar over his left eye ..... olive complexioned and seemed to be educated ..... he had a Cuban accent and looked like a Cuban."

Deslatte gave the original bid form to "Lee Oswald" and kept a copy for his files, which he gave to the FBI following the assassination.^61-05

 

 

 

The purchaser was listed as the "Friends of Democratic Cuba," 402 St. Charles Street, New Orleans, LA., phone number JA-5-0763.⁴³ After talking with Deslate for over an hour the two men took the original bid form and left.

 

NOTE: The Friends of Democratic Cuba was incorporated on January 9, 1961 in

Louisiana. The address of 402 St. Charles Street was listed as vacant in the 1960, 1961

and 1962 New Orleans City directories.

 

--Above excerpted from Harvey and Lee, pp. 325-326, Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong

 

Remarkable about the “Friends of Democratic Cuba” were the names of two of its officers. The image shown below is a composite scan from the beginning and the end of the Louisiana Articles of Incorporation for Friends of Democratic Cuba, Inc.

 

 

W. Guy Banister worked at the infamous 544 Camp Street address in New Orleans, made famous by the Jim Garrison investigation.

Gerard Tugague employed Oswald briefly in late 1955 and early 1956 at the 300 Sanlin Building in New Orleans.

On our website John Armstrong wrote, “This well-known incident was cited in Warren Commission Document 75 p. 677 and the House Select Committee on Assassinations Vol. X; FBI 67-39565-66. For years some JFK researchers believed that an impostor was using Oswald's name while the alleged future assassin was in Russia. As more and more examples surfaced it became clear that another man, using the name "Lee Harvey Oswald," was associating with anti-Castro Cubans and CIA operatives in the southern United States during the very years the Warren Commission placed him in the Soviet Union. This man was southern born LEE Oswald, and is a clear indication that both Oswalds were active in American intelligence operations.”

There are other examples of LEE Oswald operating in the U.S. while HARVEY Oswald was in Russia. For an overview, see THIS PAGE on HarveyandLee.net.

Below is a copy of the FBI report covering this incident. Compare it to the Garrison interview excerpted above.

 

Your opinion, Tommy?

[Thomas Graves]

6 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Your opinion, Tommy?

My opinion?

Ummmm, yummy.  I love spaghetti!  Even if it HAS been thrown against the wall in huge globs just to see if it will "stick", and immediately slithered to the floor.

(When I have a couple of free hours, I might even get around to reading it, James.)

--  Tommy

Edited April 17, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Jim Hargrove]

On 4/6/2017 at 3:49 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

Parker and Parnell will never admit the truth about this silly argument, but let’s just review all the evidence that the U.S.S. Skagit with Harvey Oswald aboard departed Yokosuka, Japan on Sept. 14, 1958.  As Sandy discovered a day or two ago, the Skagit’s own webpage indicates it departed on Sept. 14 (emphasis added):

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

Recollections of: Clark Leonard, LT. USMC
Combat Cargo Officer 1958 - 1959

….

In September 1958 we proceeded to Yokosuka, Japan where we loaded personnel of Marine Air Group 3 and filled the holds with steel matting for an airfield and with 5" shells for the Chinese Nationalists defending Quemoy and Matsu, two small islands off the Chinese mainland. We were not supposed to carry ammunition but Quemoy and Matsu were in desperate need and we had the duty. The men were very hesitant to load live shells and store them in the holds. We were really lucky we were not all killed, as we were not qualified to do it, but you do as you are told.

Departed Sept.14 and ran into Typhoon Helen, very rough seas, and giant waves. Arrived Kaoshung, Formosa on Sept,19 unloaded matting continuously for 48 hours. When I went to the new airfield they were laying matting down in a soggy rice paddy and F-9 Cougars were starting to arrive.  Amazing!  The ammunition was loaded directly onto LSTs and sent to Quemoy. At this time Formosa was a third world country. I hired local workers to help on the ship, three coolies for a day, for the price of one box of C rations (enough to serve one man for one day). Life was cheap!!!

Source: http://www.ussskagit.org/Timeline1944to1969.html
 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Page 684 of the Warren Commission Report includes the following statement:

On September 14, Oswald sailed with his unit for the South China
Sea area the unit was at Ping Tung, North Taiwan on September 30,
and returned to Atsugi on October 5.361 On October 6, he was trans-
ferred out of MACS-1 and put on general duty, in anticipation of his
return to the United States.362
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Harvey Oswald’s Unit Diary of Sept. 14, 1958, certified correct by Wm. A. Allanson, indicated that the Skagit “sailed fr Yokosuka Japan for the South China Sea….”

 

 

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Page 5 of CE 1961 also indicates the Skagit departed Japan on September 14:

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

So what gives Parnell and Parker the opportunity to grasp at a straw that the Skagit actually sailed on Sept. 16 rather than Sept. 14?  Answer: the following document, an obvious lie by the Office of the U.S. Secretary of Defense attempting to explain how Oswald could be treated for VD at Atsugi, Japan while en route to Taiwan about the Skagit:

 

Why on earth would anyone who supposedly wants to “Reopen the Kennedy Case” rely on such an unreliable document as the one above?  The fraudulent note from the Sec. Def’s office even implies that LHO never went to Taiwan, despite a massive amount of evidence otherwise.  This attempted cover-up is so blatant and obvious it is downright pitiful.

Why do Parnell and Parker put any reliance on this cover-up document and an HSCA reference to it?  Because both of them are desperate and willing to say ANYTHING that will hide the evidence for two Oswalds, that’s why.

Tommy?

[Thomas Graves]

1 minute ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Tommy?

Enough, James!

I'm feelin' like that guy in the film "7" who exploded from being forced to eat to much hot, stinkin' spaghetti!

(Burp)

--  Tommy