Michael Clark Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: His dad worked for Brown Brothers Harriman bank, with lots of Harriman money invested in Zapata. Here's an intrigung take on "Kingslayer" W. Averell Harriman: Joseph Trento, The Secret History of the CIA, pgs 334-5: <quote on, emphasis added> Who changed the coup into the murder of Diem, Nhu and a Catholic priest accompanying them? To this day, nothing has been found in government archives tying the killings to either John or Robert Kennedy. So how did the tools and talents developed by Bill Harvey for ZR/RIFLE and Operation MONGOOSE get exported to Vietnam? Kennedy immediately ordered (William R.) Corson to find out what had happened and who was responsible. The answer he came up with: “On instructions from Averell Harriman…. The orders that ended in the deaths of Diem and his brother originated with Harriman and were carried out by Henry Cabot Lodge’s own military assistant.” Having served as ambassador to Moscow and governor of New York, W. Averell Harriman was in the middle of a long public career. In 1960, President-elect Kennedy appointed him ambassador-at-large, to operate “with the full confidence of the president and an intimate knowledge of all aspects of United States policy.” By 1963, according to Corson, Harriman was running “Vietnam without consulting the president or the attorney general.” The president had begun to suspect that not everyone on his national security team was loyal. As Corson put it, “Kenny O’Donnell (JFK’s appointments secretary) was convinced that McGeorge Bundy, the national security advisor, was taking orders from Ambassador Averell Harriman and not the president. He was especially worried about Michael Forrestal, a young man on the White House staff who handled liaison on Vietnam with Harriman.” At the heart of the murders was the sudden and strange recall of Sagon Station Chief Jocko Richardson and his replacement by a no-name team barely known to history. The key member was a Special Operations Army officer, John Michael Dunn, who took his orders, not from the normal CIA hierarchy but from Harriman and Forrestal. According to Corson, “John Michael Dunn was known to be in touch with the coup plotters,” although Dunn’s role has never been made public. Corson believes that Richardson was removed so that Dunn, assigned to Ambassador Lodge for “special operations,” could act without hindrance. <quote off> Thanks again Cliff, that's as deep and dark as it gets. The General gist has not been lost on me. Also, I am very much enjoying our digression; yet it is a digression. I would be glad to follow this to another thread. That said, I don't think that maintaining a Cuba-vectored throughofare for drugs was important, nor desirable, to the 11-22-63 hit. Alternatives to that thoroughfare could be more transient, discreet and efficient. Alternate vectors could cut-out the Mafia. Also, a banana Republic style system of slavery would be too apparent in Cuba. So I think Cuba was sacrificed, in fifty years of darkness, to the alternatives for such interests. Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Michael Clark said: Thanks again Cliff, that's as deep and dark as it gets. The General gist has not been lost on me. Also, I am very much enjoying our digression; yet it is a digression. I would be glad to follow this to another thread. That said, I don't think that maintaining a Cuba-vectored throughofare for drugs was important, nor desirable, to the 11-22-63 hit. Alternatives to that thoroughfare could be more transient, discreet and efficient. Alternate vectors could cut-out the Mafia. Also, a banana Republic style system of slavery would be too apparent in Cuba. So I think Cuba was sacrificed, in fifty years of darkness, to the alternatives for such interests. Cheers, Michael Michael, would could possibly be more efficient than a smuggling operation only 90 miles from the US mainland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: Michael, would could possibly be more efficient than a smuggling operation only 90 miles from the US mainland? 4 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: Michael, would could possibly be more efficient than a smuggling operation only 90 miles from the US mainland? Cliff, ships and planes were, and increasingly would, run amuck from then-on. That short hop was and would become increasingly less valuable and increasingly more visible and obvious. And I repeat myself, our players had no interest in bringing dark, Spanish-Speaking catholic folk, 90 miles away, into the heart of the nascent new world order. They had an even far greater interest in keeping the Mafia from having control of it all, and them. So, no, I don't think that the fear of a nuclear war kept us from invading Cuba. I believe they had all the cards to make that happen, while possibly risking the loss of Berlin. 90 miles didn't mean much then when a ton of cocaine or heroin could fit in, I don't know what, but it couldn't take up that much space. Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Michael Clark said: Cliff, ships and planes were, and increasingly would, run amuck from then-on. That short hop was and would become increasingly less valuable and increasingly more visible and obvious. And I repeat myself, our players had no interest in bringing dark, Spanish-Speaking catholic folk, 90 miles away, into the heart of the nascent new world order. They had an even far greater interest in keeping the Mafia from having control of it all, and them. So, no, I don't think that the fear of a nuclear war kept us from invading Cuba. I believe they had all the cards to make that happen, while possibly risking the loss of Berlin. 90 miles didn't mean much then when a ton of cocaine or heroin could fit in, I don't know what, but it couldn't take up that much space. Cheers, Michael I don't follow. Zapata Off-Shore had oil drilling rigs in the Caribbean where supply boats could run from the mainland to the rig without going thru customs checks. They could smuggle anything they wanted without detection. Edited April 7, 2017 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Cliff Varnell said: I don't follow. Zapata Off-Shore had oil drilling rigs in the Caribbean where supply boats could run from the mainland to the rig without going thru customs checks. They could smuggle anything they wanted without detection. Cliff, I opened a new thread so that this one might remain on-topic. Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Michael Clark said: Cliff, I opened a new thread so that this one might remain on-topic. Cheers, Michael This is entirely on-topic in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: This is entirely on-topic in my opinion. Cliff, I have not read Lifton's book. If you have, please draw us back to the substance of that book. Cheers Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Michael Clark said: Cliff, I have not read Lifton's book. If you have, please draw us back to the substance of that book. Cheers Michael The topic is whether or not Kennedy's killers also conducted the cover-up -- our discussion goes to the heart of the framing of Oswald as a Castro agent, and the motivations of Kennedy's killers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: The topic is whether or not Kennedy's killers also conducted the cover-up -- our discussion goes to the heart of the framing of Oswald as a Castro agent, and the motivations of Kennedy's killers. Cliff, I, presently, believe that the assassins were Anti-Castro Cubans, sheep-dipped as Communist Cubans. The DPD and the mob, via Jack Ruby, handeled the on-the-ground needs of the cover-up, while LBJ and Hoover handeled the top-level work. Poppy and Co., like Nixon and Co. handled the money-brokers and the power(legislative)-brokers. Cheers Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) I don't want to give too much credit to Nixon; I use him as a synecdoche for the politicians who wanted JFK dead. Cheers, Michael Edited April 7, 2017 by Michael Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) Likewise, I don't want to give too much credit to Poppy. I use him as a synecdoche for Old Money folks who wanted JFK dead. Cheers, Michael Edited April 7, 2017 by Michael Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted April 7, 2017 Author Share Posted April 7, 2017 5 hours ago, Gerry Simone said: I thought Jackie had also something to do with the choice for Bethesda since JFK was in the navy. Gerry - where did you hear that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted April 7, 2017 Author Share Posted April 7, 2017 8 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: Paul -- I'm convinced the kill team and the cover-up were connected at the very top. The team tasked with killing JFK had nothing to do with the team tasked with killing Oswald, although both were employed from on high. To get to the point -- I strongly suspect W. Averell Harriman with the blessing of the Rockefellers pushed the buttons on JFK and LHO. When Oswald was captured Harriman got on the horn to Bundy and told him to call LBJ to inform him the lone assassin was in custody. I speculate that the goal was to establish a SE Asia-to-Havana heroin pipeline which required the removal of Diem, Kennedy and Castro. Oswald's capture let Castro off the hook and Harriman eventually worked out a deal where Castro would move dope thru GHW Bush's Zapata Off-shore. Question for you Cliff - what evidence is there that Castro moved dope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 10 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said: Question for you Cliff - what evidence is there that Castro moved dope? Google "castro drug smuggling." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: Google "castro drug smuggling." Cliff, 'C'mon! Be the MCee at the new thread... Edited April 7, 2017 by Michael Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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