Photographic identification of Stella Jacob, Gloria Holt, and Sharon Simmons.

[Robin Unger]

Carol Reed

 

[Thomas Graves]

12 hours ago, Robin Unger said:

It would appear that the three women were standing together at the curb on Elm st, approximately 50-yards west of the TSBD

Is there a Yearbook photo of Stella Jacob. ? ( American Indian )

Born 1943 ( 1961 - Yearbook ? )

 

Robin,

Stella May Jacob was a self-described "Indian female" born in some town in Oklahoma.  If you feel like researching that, let us know what you find out.

But why?  Why is it necessary?  If her high school photographs can't be found, would that somehow invalidate my identification of Jacob, Holt, and Reed in that mis-labeled Z-Frame you Speth, and Roberdeau apparently collaborated on, etc?

The "Gloria Calvary" you and Speth and Roberdeau "identified" on Elm Street, just happens to look (unlike the real Gloria Calvery does in her high school photographs) like a (dark-complected) "Indian female," and the "Karan Hicks" your "Gloria Calvary" is walking with in that short Darnell clip just happens to be a "dead ringer" for the Gloria Holt / Gloria Jeanne Holt in her 1962 and 1963 high school photographs, don't you agree?

--  Tommy

PS  You're welcome

Edited April 15, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Robin Unger]

Judy Johnson said that she was standing with Jeannie Holt,Stella Jacob, Bonnie Richey, Carolyn Arnold,Betty Dragoo. ?

Southwest corner of Elm and Houston ???????

Bonnie Richey said that she was standing with Judy Johnson. ?

 

Edited April 14, 2017 by Robin Unger

[Thomas Graves]

8 hours ago, Robin Unger said:

Judy Johnson said that she was standing with Jeannie Holt,Stella Jacob, Bonnie Richey, Carolyn Arnold,Betty Dragoo. ?

Southwest corner of Elm and Houston ???????

Bonnie Richey said that she was standing with Judy Johnson. ?

[...]

Robin,

Sure, go ahead and try to ignore the (to me) obvious "American Indian" dark-complexion and facial features of your "Gloria Calvary" in the short Darnnel clip, below, and the fact that your "Karan Hicks" in said Darnell clip looks just like Gloria Jeanne Holt in her 1963 high school photograph, and the fact that TSBD co-workers Stella Jacob, Gloria Holt, and Sharon Simmons all said in their FBI statements that they were standing only with each other (making a total of only three (3) people in their little group, and that your "Calvary" "Hicks" "Reed" can be seen standing very close to each other in the Z-Film and other photos / films taken during the motorcade, and the fact that just the three (3) and only three (3) of them were photographically "caught" walking with each other, you know, just the three (3) of them, on the sidewalk by Darnell in that short clip of his.

Regardless, do you really still think that your (and Speth's and Roberdeau's) "Calvary, Hicks, and Reed" were the "real deal" Gloria Calvery, Karan Hicks, and Carol Reed?

Or are are a few doubts starting to creep in?

LOL

--  Tommy

PS  Here's a frame from that short Darnell clip.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Robin Unger]

I have an open mind,

Why did you ignore my Judy Johnson Testimony, placing Gloria Jeannie Holt on the Southwest corner of Elm and Houston. ?

Why do you continue to ignore Gloria Jeannei Holts own testimony placing her on the Southwest side of Elm ST ?

Edited April 14, 2017 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

I corrected my Zapruder image months ago in my gallery, but you continue to deliberately use the incorrect annotation labelled as Calvery

you are continuing the misconception that the woman in the brown cardigan is Gloria Calvery NOT ME.

as for Hicks and Reed, i am open for discussion regarding there identities.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Robin Unger

[Sandy Larsen]

29 minutes ago, Robin Unger said:

I have an open mind,

Why did you ignore my Judy Johnson Testimony, placing Gloria Jeannie Holt on the Southwest corner of Elm and Houston. ?

Why do you continue to ignore Gloria Jeannei Holts own testimony placing her on the Southwest side of Elm ST ?

 

Robin,

Judy Johnson's testimony regarding Gloria Jeanne Holt's position contradicts what Holt herself said. Holt said that she walked 50 yards toward the underpass. Johnson said they stood at the corner. Obviously some latitude must be taken in interpreting the testimonies of these women.

Perhaps early on Holt did walk to the corner with Johnson, only to later move to the position 50 yards down.

If so, Holt must have been mistaken when she said she stood on the south side of Elm. Or maybe the FBI agent who interviewed her made a mistake. Perhaps he merely assumed she stayed on the south side. Whatever the case, we know from the Z film that she wasn't 50 yards down on the south side during the shooting.

 

Edited April 14, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Robin Unger]

Sandy

Johnson said that Stella Jacobs was also standing with them on the South west corner of Elm and Houston. ?

That would also equate to 50-yards from the TSBD.

[Sandy Larsen]

33 minutes ago, Robin Unger said:

Sandy

Johnson said that Stella Jacobs was also standing with them on the South west corner of Elm and Houston. ?

That would also equate to 50-yards from the TSBD.

Robin,

Johnson's testimony also contradicts Stella Jacobs testimony. Jacobs said she walked down toward the underpass, about 50 yards west of the TSBD. As with Gloria Holt, she said she was on the south side of  Elm. Which the Z-film shows is not correct.

I believe that all three women, Jacob, Holt, and Simmons, were about 50 yards west of the TSBD. But on the north side of Elm, not the south.

What I believe can change, but that is what I currently believe.

Do you have a photo showing them at the corner with Johnson?

 

Edited April 14, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Robin Unger]

2 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Robin,

Johnson's testimony also contradicts Stella Jacobs testimony. Jacobs said she walked down toward the underpass, about 50 yards west of the TSBD. As with Gloria Holt, she said she was on the south side of  Elm. Which the Z-film shows is not correct.

I believe that all three women, Jacob, Holt, and Simmons, were about 50 yards west of the TSBD. But on the north side of Elm, not the south.

What I believe can change, but that is what I currently believe.

 

Johnson's testimony can't just be ignored because it throws a spanner in your placement of Holt and Jacobs on the North west side of Elm st

No FBI testimony places Holt and Jacobs on the north side of Elm st, and Johnson said that Holt and Jacobs were standing with her on the Southwest corner of Elm and Houston.

[Sandy Larsen]

10 minutes ago, Robin Unger said:

Johnson's testimony can't just be ignored because it throws a spanner in your placement of Holt and Jacobs on the North west side of Elm st

No FBI testimony places Holt and Jacobs on the north side of Elm st, and Johnson said that Holt and Jacobs were standing with her on the Southwest corner of Elm and Houston.

Holt and Jacobs themselves disagree with what Johnson said. They said they were standing elsewhere.

 

[Michael Walton]

This is why I've never really put a lot of relevance on witness statements. Too unreliable, too inconsistent and no one was standing around expecting this to happen with a car moving at a decent clip driving by them.  It's obvious some of these women can't even agree on what they saw. So what is the real point of this thread in relation to the case?

We can pretty much see what happened over and over with the Zapruder film.

Robin I like what you said above about Tom bumping threads that have long fallen asleep with the dogs.  But I'm surprised you're now posting witness statements here.  What's up with that?

[Thomas Graves]

8 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

This is why I've never really put a lot of relevance on witness statements. Too unreliable, too inconsistent and no one was standing around expecting this to happen with a car moving at a decent clip driving by them.  It's obvious some of these women can't even agree on what they saw. So what is the real point of this thread in relation to the case?

We can pretty much see what happened over and over with the Zapruder film.

Robin I like what you said above about Tom bumping threads that have long fallen asleep with the dogs.  But I'm surprised you're now posting witness statements here.  What's up with that?

Dear Mike,

Don't you realize that if Robin's "Calvary, Hicks, and Reed" on the north side of Elm Street were actually other people entirely (e.g. Jacob, Holt, and Simmons), then that would mean that Gloria Calvery, a person who happens to be important, timing-wise, in helping us to determine which of Shelley's and Lovelady's varying statements / testimonies are closest to reality, had to have been somewhere else during the motorcade, and that if Calvery, based on the her high school and wedding photographs (as well as upon where and with whom she claimed to have been standing, etc) can be spotted in the photographic images taken during the motorcade, then we would have a good idea not only about her relative proximity to the TSBD during the motorcade, but also about her physical size and the clothing she was wearing that day (all of which has a direct bearing on whether on not the lithe "Running Woman" running down the Elm Street Extension in Couch-Darnell could have been her), and would also make Calvery much easier to spot in the photos and films taken, say, 30 seconds or so after the assassination?

And perhaps most importantly, whether or not she interacted with anybody (e.g. Shelley and / or Lovelady ?) on her way back to her workplace and "sanctuary," the TSBD?

--  Tommy

PS  Why do you have to keep butting in on threads you "aren't interested in"?  Do you crave attention or something?  Go rain on your own parade, not mine.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Ray Mitcham]

In the two photos, there appears to me to be a slight discrepancy.

In the photo showing the Stemmons sign, the girl with the headscarf is to the West of the three girls. In the lower photo, the girl with the scarf is to the East. How and when did they change positions?

In the Stemmons photo could there be two other girls to the west, hidden by the sign.

 

Just askin'

Edited April 15, 2017 by Ray Mitcham

[Thomas Graves]

14 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

In the two photos, there appears to me to be a slight discrepancy.

In the photo showing the Stemmons sign, the girl with the headscarf is to the West of the three girls. In the lower photo, the girl with the scarf is to the East. How and when did they change positions?

In the Stemmons photo could there be two other girls to the west, hidden by the sign.

Just askin'

Gosh, Ray

Are ya talkin' about photos on this thread, or some other thread?

Could you please post 'em here?

Thanks!

--  Tommy

Edited April 15, 2017 by Thomas Graves