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Alberto Miatello

The "inconvenient" POMMEL on the scope of the 7.65 MAUSER

35 posts in this topic

For those still unconvinced that the rifle found on Nov. 22 on the 6th floor of TSBD was a 7.65 MAUSER (as Roger Craig ALWAYS repeated).

Please, look carefully this “inconvenient” photo (it is “inconvenient”  because they are normally showing  the officer handling that rifle  in a top view photo)

http://s27.postimg.org/cxphfolsz/image.jpg

You can easily notice a “POMMEL” , a little ball/sphere on top of a short shaft on the scope (for sight regulation and scroll of scope)

You can  clearly see  that round pommel also in the famous video on Youtube  here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RGZPa8FdbA&t=181s when the officers are handling and turning the rifle , precisely at the moments  2’:29”-2’:30”, 2’:46”- 2’:47”, 3’:01” (above the handkerchief in the hand of the officer).

And now, WHERE IS that pommel on the scope of the “official” Mannlicher – Carcano???

http://spartacus-educational.com/DPD12.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/95/3f/f0/953ff0fda51ba6081fa234b9f0899d59.jpg

http://68.media.tumblr.com/8f93fbec5b8fca86858795fb9f5bf63d/tumblr_mwn013FDZB1s57vgxo4_540.gif

See also the closer view of the scope of Mannlicher-Carcano

https://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/bbdd330271.gif

NO ROUND POMMEL AND NO SHORT SHAFT ON THE SCOPE OF MANNLICHER-CARCANO!

Oh, oh, a “vanishing” pommel!

So, the rifle found on Nov. 22, at 1:22 p.m. in the 6th floor of TSBD WAS NOT the Mannlicher-Carcano officially shown later!

Roger Craig was true, it was a 7.65 MAUSER.

A bogus Mannlicher-Carcano, a bogus Exhibit CE399, a bogus  "pristine and magic bullet"...

That was  a MAUSER McAdams…a MAUSER, and there’s nothing you can do…

Alberto Miatello

 

 

 

 

 

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Alberto, could you please draw a circle around the “POMMEL” on the TSBD photo you posted?

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

 

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6 minutes ago, Tom Hume said:

Alberto, could you please draw a circle around the “POMMEL” on the TSBD photo you posted?

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

 

I am curious as well. I am seeing the bolt handle, which would move to a lower location if the bolt was closed.

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That can't just be the little round part on the bolt action handle sticking up?

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The Pommel is one one side of the scope with the other pommel on top...

The images you posted show the top pommel but not the side one since you are only showing the side without the strap attachments... (top image)

The side with the slots for the strap has it...

Or did I misunderstand what you posted?

DJ

58f7de6d56734_Pommelonlyononesideofscope.thumb.jpg.825f39ae35891e9b34ae613eb97a9f13.jpg

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It looks like the same gun to me. That indentation carved into it where the fingers go, the shape of the scope, the tapering of the butt - they all look alike to me.

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@ Tom + Michael + Micah + David

No, no, those are 2 different SCOPES of 2 different rifles. and it is NOT the bolt handle of course. (the bolt handle of the Mannlicher is not on top of the scope, it is below to the right on the rifle see here https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/95/3f/f0/953ff0fda51ba6081fa234b9f0899d59.jpg

Please, look carefully here again :https://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/bbdd330271.gif

As you can see , the Mannlicher Carcano has also 2 METALLIC GASKETS ,  LESS THAN 1 INCH LONG, and just 5 cm. DISTANT  each other,  wrapping the scope and forming 2 LITTLE RECTANGULAR PROTRUSIONS, 2 LITTLE BARS emerging on top of the scope  for a  few millimeters.

NONE  of those very close  metallic gaskets is visible here, look carefully http://s27.postimg.org/cxphfolsz/image.jpg .There is just ONE GASKET (7-8 cm. far from  the lens opposite to that of sight).

In addition, if you magnify this image , you can see also that the scope of that rifle is more LIFTED, it is linked  to the rifle through rigid  JOINTS/SHAFTS. On the contrary the scope of the Mannlicher-Carcano is EMBEDDED , it runs sliding on side/lateral bars for scrolling .

My suggestion is to take this image, save it in your file of images, and then magnify it on your pc - as I've done - you can clearly see that the rifle the officer is handling is different for 3 remarkable items:

1) There is a little rigid  SHAFT  (and a round/spherical item "pommel"  on top of the shaft)   about 10 cm. distant from the lens of sight

2) In the Mannlicher Carcano  there are 2 METALLIC GASKETS wrapping the scope, very close each other (around 5-6 cm., a couple of inches) , forming 2 LITTLE RECTANGULAR BARS/PROTRUSIONS in the points where the gaskets  join, and clearly visible on top of the scope, On the contrary, in the rifle of Nov. 22 you can see only ONE metallic gasket

3) The scope of the rifle of the 6th floor (of Nov. 22 1:22 p.m.) was a bit more lifted and linked to the rifle through RIGID JOINTS/LITTLE SHAFTS. On the contrary the scope of the Carcano is EMBEDDED, it runs by sliding, scrolling on side bars.

Again, my suggestion is to MAGNIFY this photo https://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/bbdd330271.gif and watch it very carefully taking your time, keeping the close view of the scope of the Mannlicher     https://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/bbdd330271.gif   near to you, so that  to compare them.

The more you watch them, the more you find the differences!

Those were different scopes (of different rifles)

Hi

Alberto

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Alberto Miatello said:

 

Just FYI the little ball on the bolt action handle can be sticking up right next to the scope.

ficsc1.gif

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8 hours ago, Alberto Miatello said:

 

@ Tom + Michael + Micah + David

No, no, those are 2 different SCOPES of 2 different rifles. and it is NOT the bolt handle of course. (the bolt handle of the Mannlicher is not on top of the scope, it is below to the right on the rifle see here https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/95/3f/f0/953ff0fda51ba6081fa234b9f0899d59.jpg

Please, look carefully here again :https://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/bbdd330271.gif

As you can see , the Mannlicher Carcano has also 2 METALLIC GASKETS ,  LESS THAN 1 INCH LONG, and just 5 cm. DISTANT  each other,  wrapping the scope and forming 2 LITTLE RECTANGULAR PROTRUSIONS, 2 LITTLE BARS emerging on top of the scope  for a  few millimeters.

NONE  of those very close  metallic gaskets is visible here, look carefully http://s27.postimg.org/cxphfolsz/image.jpg .There is just ONE GASKET (7-8 cm. far from  the lens opposite to that of sight).

In addition, if you magnify this image , you can see also that the scope of that rifle is more LIFTED, it is linked  to the rifle through rigid  JOINTS/SHAFTS. On the contrary the scope of the Mannlicher-Carcano is EMBEDDED , it runs sliding on side/lateral bars for scrolling .

My suggestion is to take this image, save it in your file of images, and then magnify it on your pc - as I've done - you can clearly see that the rifle the officer is handling is different for 3 remarkable items:

1) There is a little rigid  SHAFT  (and a round/spherical item "pommel"  on top of the shaft)   about 10 cm. distant from the lens of sight

2) In the Mannlicher Carcano  there are 2 METALLIC GASKETS wrapping the scope, very close each other (around 5-6 cm., a couple of inches) , forming 2 LITTLE RECTANGULAR BARS/PROTRUSIONS in the points where the gaskets  join, and clearly visible on top of the scope, On the contrary, in the rifle of Nov. 22 you can see only ONE metallic gasket

3) The scope of the rifle of the 6th floor (of Nov. 22 1:22 p.m.) was a bit more lifted and linked to the rifle through RIGID JOINTS/LITTLE SHAFTS. On the contrary the scope of the Carcano is EMBEDDED, it runs by sliding, scrolling on side bars.

Again, my suggestion is to MAGNIFY this photo https://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/bbdd330271.gif and watch it very carefully taking your time, keeping the close view of the scope of the Mannlicher     https://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/bbdd330271.gif   near to you, so that  to compare them.

The more you watch them, the more you find the differences!

Those were different scopes (of different rifles)

Hi

Alberto

 

 

 

 

Hi there Alberto,

While I do believe that the rifle in evidence - CE139 - is not the same rifle with which Day leaves the TSBD... https://statick2k-5f2f.kxcdn.com/images/pdf/JosephsRifle.pdf is the paper I did which illustrates this... I do not see the differences in the scope you discuss...

With regards to the photos you post...  I see the pommels and the bumps right where I expect them for a scoped MC - It's the rifle itself that's the problem..  

58f8ce821e217_RiflePommeltherejusthardtosee.jpg.4e58902cdc1ad4826aa8691134e21e99.jpg

I my paper I found a photo which shows the location of the rifle's markings yet the markings for "Made in Italy" and "Cal 6.5" are not there.

I'd like you to consider an explanation I learned about that makes a lot of sense...  The MAUSER designation comes from the fact there was no CLIP found on the 6th floor where it should have been, by the 6th floor window when the shooter loaded the last round.  Since it was not, nor was it near the rifle, (in fact we have no idea how the clip gets into the rifle in some of the Day photos) the assumption from these gun savvy men was a Mauser which uses a Stripper CLip as opposed to a clip that stays in the rifle.

58f8cfbee8e68_StripperCliploadingtheMAUSERandtheCarcanoClipsystem-ScopecoversMAUSERstamp.thumb.jpg.2956112cb5102cfa9a8d6970c3093bf4.jpg

A quick explanation was arrived at due to the lack of a clip...  The MASUER fit the bill...  In my paper linked above I also show how the MAUSER stamp would be covered by a scoped rifle... Craig wouldn't be able to see the MAUSER or 7.65mm if the rifle was scoped.

Add also that Craig let loose about the DPD sniper on the County records bldg and his sighting of Oswald and "associates" in the car leaving the TSBD and we can see how he was targeted.

It would help a bit if you could open the image in any graphics program and point to what you are saying...  If I didn't do that above

DJ

 

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Posted (edited)

reticule adjuster screw.pdfTHE "POMMEL" IS A RETICULE ADJUSTER

Hi, David and All here is the magnified image I mentioned . My full  comments are in the post below

 

Edited by Alberto Miatello
it does not catch the other format

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THE “POMMEL”  SEEMS  A RETICULE ADJUSTER SCREW

Hi David and All,

I spoke yesterday to and expert of optical instruments (scopes, microscopes, telescopes, lenses, etc.) and his comments were very interesting, after that  I’ll try to make an overall picture of what it is my idea on this subject (of course, any new technical contribution his welcome).

Before that, David, I read your excellent paper (“The Evidence IS the Conspiracy”), and I 100% agree with you ,it is a pity I didn’t know your study  before!

But you  wrote yourself, at p. 16 : “3. The scope looks different”!

So, why are you now wrtiting   that the scope is not a problem?

Anyway, clearly those two scopes are different (as those rifles were different) , and here is why.

First of all let's discuss  about  the “pommel” that is visible 10 cm. below the ocular lens (it is just below the line separating the 2 carton boxes labeled “BOOKS”)

My optical expert told me that the “pommel” is not a sphere, it  is a reticule adjuster screw , namely a little wheel placed on a thin threaded rigid shaft (3-4 cm. long) whose function is to adjust the lenses and the focusing. It is normally placed in all optical instruments, in different shapes and places.

The photo you showed above "flipped 180 degrees" seems to make  the action bolt (pommel)  coincident with the "reticule adjuster screw". However, in the photo where Day is handling the rifle in TSBD clearly the reticule adjuster screw cannot be confused with the action bolt, because the action bolt cannot be rotated 90 degrees from a rest position in which  Day was keeping the rifle. In addition, if you look the photo of Day handling the rifle, you clearly realize that the thin shaft of the reticule adjuster screw is stuck right in the middle of the scope, so it cannot be the action bolt.

However, as you can see here https://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/bbdd330271.gif

the MC CE139 keeps – as many scopes – the reticule adjuster screw IN THE MIDDLE , that black round cap in the middle is the reticule adjuster screw.

But another reason making very different those scopes, is that the scope of the rifle handled by Day in the TSBD is clearly mounted on just a couple of shafts (one of them is visible below the ocular bell), connecting it to a narrow metal plate, whereas the Mannlicher- Carcano  is directly in contact and leaning on a rectangular (silver color) support (having a diagonal cross ) https://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/bbdd330271.gif

In this photo the only visible  “pommel” is clearly the action bolt.

To summarize, here are the main differences between those scopes:

1) reticule adjuster screw The rifle of Nov. 22 in TSBD had an external (little wheel on a shaft)   reticule adjuster screw placed nearly 10 cm. below the ocular lens, on the contrary CE139 had the scope keeping the reticule adjuster screw as a cap in the middle.

2) The support frames of the scopes are very different. The scope of rifle of Nov. 22 in TSBD is supported by just 2 thin shafts connecting the scope to a narrow metallic plate on the wood of the rifle, whereas the scope of CE139 is supported by (and embedded in)  a rectangular metallic (silver color)  plate (with a diagonal cross), that is totally absent on the scope of the rifle.

3) Gaskets on the scope On the rifle of Nov 22 in TSBD only one gasket (around 6-7 cm. far from the objective lens) is visible, whereas on CE139 there are two close gaskets (in the middle of them there is the reticule adjuster screw) whose distance is nearly 5 cm.

I hope this can be of help to clarify, but of  course feel free to let me know any remarks, objections, etc.

Hi

Alberto

 

 

 

 

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Is the circled item in the pic below what you are referring to as the "Reticule Adjuster Screw"?

 

Reticule.JPG

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1 hour ago, Ian Lloyd said:

Is the circled item in the pic below what you are referring to as the "Reticule Adjuster Screw"?

 

Reticule.JPG

That is what I think is the Knob on the bolt handle

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Posted (edited)

Yep, me too...just can't think what else could be being referred to as the "reticule"...

Edited by Ian Lloyd

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18 minutes ago, Ian Lloyd said:

Yep, me too...just can't think what else could be being referred to as the "reticule"...

Crosshairs.......

ret·i·cle
ˈredək(ə)l/
noun
NORTH AMERICAN
  1. a series of fine lines or fibers in the eyepiece of an optical device, such as a telescope or microscope, or on the screen of an oscilloscope, used as a measuring scale or an aid in locating objects.
 

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