The Fifth Estate: Putin, the FBI and Donald Trump

[Kirk Gallaway]

Definitely not as good as the Dutch film, but this is from the Podcast, The Fifth Estate, and highlights the sequence of events surrounding  the 2016 election. New info regards 1)Rudy Giuliani's complicity with the New York FBI, and his pre announcement of Comey's reopening of the Hilary Clinton e-mail episode 10 days before the election. 2) Giuliani associate, former New York FBI agent William Kallstrom and the New York FBI's long seated animosity to the Clinton's because of President Bill Clinton's  Monica Lewinsky scandal, and then the Benghazi inquiry. 3)Alihmzan Tokhtakhounov , international criminal, accused of bribes, money laundering, and busted in  the biggest internet sports gambling ring bust ever,out of the Trump Tower, and present  at the Trump Miss Universe Pageant in Moscow in 2013. Also, what some might not know, 4)RT America is an internet broadcast from the Kremlin cleverly made palatable to middle of the road Americans, using American broadcast talent. Sort of similar to the old Radio Free Europe, but with bits of Russian propaganda thrown in.RT's slant  was pro Trump and anti Hillary Clinton during the 2016 campaign.. There is an interview with one anchor, Liz Wall who quit  RT after the programs denial of Russia's invasion of the Ukraine.

I don't much like the narrator's voice because he sounds a bit tabloid, but the facts are all there, and have been substantiated from other sources.

 

 

[Paul Brancato]

I figured out months ago, to my satisfaction at least, that Comey was not a villain, and that he had no choice about the second Clinton email revelation 11 days before the election. 

[Michael Clark]

52 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

I figured out months ago, to my satisfaction at least, that Comey was not a villain, and that he had no choice about the second Clinton email revelation 11 days before the election. 

Paul, I am on the fence about that right now. My instincts tell me that you are right. However, as,a matter of course, as an excercise, I hypothetically make certain assumptions and look to see if those assumed hypotheticals make any sense. 

So, I, first of all, assume that what is happening was meant to happen,

What has happened? The election was tampered with, Temp-Trump came into office, and he is going to be taken-down prematurely. We will end-up with Pence.

Is it plausible that this was all set-up? I think so, I think it is plausible.

How did it happen? A pre election letter from Comey, a recommendation to Trump that he hire the tainted and inoculated Mr. Flynn. Trump then, as is his way, tries to twist an arm that he shouldn't be twisting, he asks for personal loyalty from someone who should not be making person pledges of loyalty.

Does Trump get all this? I don't think so. This is how he has always rolled, and, in his mind, it is what he was elected to do. 

Could all this have been predicted? Absolutely.

If Giuliani knew, why would'nt Comey?

Could it have been scripted. I think so.

Was it scripted? I don't know.

What was the end game?... Temp-Trump cedes to a Tea Party Republican.

It's plausible, IMHO, and Comey just might have had a witting role.

Cheers,

Michael

[Paul Brancato]

Michael - It's plausible - maybe - but runs against all my instincts, including a life long interest in conspiracy, especially in differentiating from real ones and red herrings. I think Giuliani and his FBI cohorts forced Comey's hand, along with Eric Prince of Blackwater. I don't think Pence will win a second term if he becomes president. The conspiracy for me does not revolve around the Tea Party people. I think it is a worldwide criminal group trying to take over governments and promote fascism. Putin and the oligarchs, with their huge resources and cyber warfare capability, are trying to change the map of world power. Their enemies are the stalwarts of the last 100 years.

[Michael Clark]

38 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Michael - It's plausible - maybe - but runs against all my instincts, including a life long interest in conspiracy, especially in differentiating from real ones and red herrings. I think Giuliani and his FBI cohorts forced Comey's hand, along with Eric Prince of Blackwater. I don't think Pence will win a second term if he becomes president. The conspiracy for me does not revolve around the Tea Party people. I think it is a worldwide criminal group trying to take over governments and promote fascism. Putin and the oligarchs, with their huge resources and cyber warfare capability, are trying to change the map of world power. Their enemies are the stalwarts of the last 100 years.

Paul, I agree that Comey's hand may have been forced, perhaps by the situation itself. He very likely was between Scylla and Charybdis. 

What was the DAP quote as related by Antonio Veciana? Was it that in order to get Kennedy to act, you had to put "his back up against the wall". It may be an art that has been mastered. My Spidey-Sense says there are script writers afoot.

Regarding Pence being re-elected: That completely depends on who the Democrats send into the election. The Democrats have to go with a moderate to win-over moderate Trump supporters. You can get another 1 million democratic voters out in NY, and it won't make a difference in the Electoral College. You have to bring-in and send-out Democratic voters in swing-states; a Bernie Sanders is not going to do that.

Cheers,

Michael

 

[Paul Brancato]

Michael - again I disagree. I think the Democratic Party has to move left to get enough voter turnout. I understand your electoral college analysis, but you may be discounting several things. First is the effect of fake news. Second is voter suppression, which will of course continue to be the Republican strategy of choice (by necessity), but which can be overcome with the right candidate and message. Do you remember the weird anti-Sanders news regarding his 'Black Lives Matter' civil rights bonafides? Fake news. Guaranteed. And there are younger, hipper, Democrats waiting in the wings, such as Tulsi Gabbard, Joe Biden, who would have crushed Trump, and Elizabeth Warren, with impeccable anti-establishment credentials. Even with Hillary Clinton they should have won, and would have were it not for the fake news and hacking operations. The electorate will get wiser as a result of the 2016 loss, assuming of course that we don't slip into a military totalitarian regime, which I'm worried about, but doubt will happen. Just my two cents...

[Kirk Gallaway]

Michael said:

How did it happen? A pre election letter from Comey, a recommendation to Trump that he hire the tainted and inoculated Mr. Flynn. Trump then, as is his way, tries to twist an arm that he shouldn't be twisting, he asks for personal loyalty from someone who should not be making person pledges of loyalty.

I can't imagine arriving at that theory.But I'll grant that must be strangely comforting for you to nurse such a view.

Flynn and Trump are tied by mutual financial interests in Russia. They met back in 2015, before Trump and Comey probably ever met. To assume Comey has anything to do with this is, we'll just say is completely groundless.So you're theory posits that Comey is really a Tea Party Republican. He's a Republican, but not every Republican is a Tea Party Republican. And there are factions within the FBI, like there is anywhere else.

Re: Comey, Michael, I got to be  truthful. IMO, You and a significant number of other posters here see nobody's actions as real, meaningful, or spontaneous and naturally occurring in life (except maybe JFK, of course!!) and almost everything as result of some invisible heavy handed conspiracy.

Why can't 1+1 =2? I tend to go with a rather conventional , and  rather boring conclusion for the perpetually conspiracy minded, but actually it is richer. It's a story of inner conflict, initially brought on by hubris. I think he should never have opened his mouth, but felt obligated to publicly conclude his investigation of HC, and chastise her but ultimately his aim was to  remove a dark shadow over the election, or at least he thought. Then in the last 10 days, he got a bunch of new e-mails and felt since he mistakenly had out himself  earlier, he had to cover his ass, and he ultimately had to face that he might have thrown an election.I tend to think he was trying to redeem himself in his investigation of Trump, not through any partiality toward Hillary, but his own instinct of justice.

The one conspiracy I could see was that I believe I read that Hillary's e-mails were first  found in Weiner's computer on Oct. 5th, and not shared with Comey for nearly 3 weeks.

 

[Joe Bauer]

I know there are still millions of Americans who do not get why Trump has never released his tax returns ... or even care about this.

Such is the political educational and emotional low bar state of this country. That is one main reason Trump may somehow survive the coming investigations.

There is only one reason for refusing to let his fellow Americans see those returns. If Trump and his backers thought those returns would make Trump look better than he looks now...they would have already sent copies to every media over-night priority mail.

Now imagine if Trump is forced to resign and Pence becomes our President.  I think we all should start scrutinizing this fellow big time right away.

My instincts tell me he would be much worse than Trump or G.W. Bush in his even more extreme religious, political and social views and beliefs.

And the most powerful groups that would want to keep Pence in office beyond 2020 know what it would take to make that happen despite more Democrats registered than Republicans ...  no matter how ominous and fear propagating those methods and actions may be.

Pence scares me way more than Trump ever could.

 

[Michael Clark]

9 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Michael said:

How did it happen? A pre election letter from Comey, a recommendation to Trump that he hire the tainted and inoculated Mr. Flynn. Trump then, as is his way, tries to twist an arm that he shouldn't be twisting, he asks for personal loyalty from someone who should not be making person pledges of loyalty.

I can't imagine arriving at that theory.But I'll grant that must be strangely comforting for you to nurse such a view.

 

Well, as it turns out, Flynn will go down in history as having played a large role in taking down Trump. So I guess you are questioning the part about somebody having set this up, knowingly. Well, we know there were people that knew of the danger Flynn posed, including Sally Yates. Why would others be unable to come to the same conclusion? Obama forced Flynn to resign, after all. I knew he was bad news for anybody. How could that be lost on anyone in Trump's inner circle? Trumps a stupid tool, but you can't say that about his entire circle.

Kirk, you still have me crammed into the wrong hole and it's uncomfortable. I know you are aware of my aversion to dyanastic power, because you have previously mocked-it.

What you are probably unclear about, because your eyes are still red and watery, is that a person in Trump's position, non-aligned, non-establishment, afforded a great opportunity to buck the trends of the last 50 years. It's too bad that that opportunity came in the form of a Trump, and with his baggage.

 

Edited May 18, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Michael Clark]

19 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Michael - again I disagree. I think the Democratic Party has to move left to get enough voter turnout. I understand your electoral college analysis, but you may be discounting several things. First is the effect of fake news. Second is voter suppression, which will of course continue to be the Republican strategy of choice (by necessity), but which can be overcome with the right candidate and message. Do you remember the weird anti-Sanders news regarding his 'Black Lives Matter' civil rights bonafides? Fake news. Guaranteed. And there are younger, hipper, Democrats waiting in the wings, such as Tulsi Gabbard, Joe Biden, who would have crushed Trump, and Elizabeth Warren, with impeccable anti-establishment credentials. Even with Hillary Clinton they should have won, and would have were it not for the fake news and hacking operations. The electorate will get wiser as a result of the 2016 loss, assuming of course that we don't slip into a military totalitarian regime, which I'm worried about, but doubt will happen. Just my two cents...

Paul, Thanks for your polite and well-considered offering.

Regarding fake news. I am kind of thinking that fake news has its greatest affect in a radicalized, polarized environment. I am thinking a centrist candidate will have some immunity to that, and would bring some measure of desperately-needed calm, unity and communication.

And... I do not recall the fake Sanders/BLM bonafides. I can clearly imagine it however.

Regards, 

Michael

 

[Michael Clark]

37 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

 

Pence scares me way more than Trump ever could.

 

They both scare me too. But Trump carries the inertia of a lot of fanatic people who are outside of the mainstream party system. Pence is within the system, caged if you will.

Trump is unstable, unenlightened, narcissistic, devoid of imagination, and absolutely unable to accept fault, blame or failings. That makes him, IMO, by far, more dangerous.

Cheers,

Michael

Edited May 18, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Michael Clark]

10 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Michael said:

How did it happen? A pre election letter from Comey, a recommendation to Trump that he hire the tainted and inoculated Mr. Flynn. Trump then, as is his way, tries to twist an arm that he shouldn't be twisting, he asks for personal loyalty from someone who should not be making person pledges of loyalty.

I can't imagine arriving at that theory.But I'll grant that must be strangely comforting for you to nurse such a view.

Flynn and Trump are tied by mutual financial interests in Russia. They met back in 2015, before Trump and Comey probably ever met.

To assume Comey has anything to do with this is, we'll just say is completely groundless. Kirk, Comey made the Hillary email disclosure, just before the election. Hillary even says that Comey disclosure caused her the election. How on earth can you you say that my point is groundless. Your just swatting at an enemy (me), that is just not there. I could say I am typing this on my IPad right now and you would find some fault with that. Get a grip, please.

 

So you're theory posits that Comey is really a Tea Party Republican. He's a Republican, but not every Republican is a Tea Party Republican. Kirk, I said: "What was the end-game? ... Temp-Trump cedes to a Tea Party Republican. 

Kirk, you are seeing enemies everywhere. You are so blinded with, I don't know what, that you misread simple statements. Trump will cede to the VP, Pence, not Comey. Do you disagree that Pence is a Tea Party Republican? You may want to check the expiry-date on your litmus test swabs.

And there are factions within the FBI, like there is anywhere else.

Re: Comey, Michael, I got to be  truthful. IMO, You and a significant number of other posters here see nobody's actions as real, meaningful, or spontaneous and naturally occurring in life (except maybe JFK, of course!!) and almost everything as result of some invisible heavy handed conspiracy. Kirk, I like most people on here are trying to figure-out who killed JFK. I like many people here are looking under every stone. Regarding who's actions are real, meaningful and spontaneous, I have no idea who your talking about, unless it's LHO, in which case I think your wrong, and I'll keep turning over stones, if you don't mind. If you're talking about Comey, I'll remind you that there is a difference between awareness of what may be the repercussions of ones actions, and the intent to cause those repercussions. Comey knew what affect that disclosure might have on the election. I'm not saying he intended to cause the outcome. He may or may not have had a choice to do what he did, I don't know.

Why can't 1+1 =2? I tend to go with a rather conventional , and  rather boring conclusion for the perpetually conspiracy minded, but actually it is richer. It's a story of inner conflict, initially brought on by hubris. I think he should never have opened his mouth, but felt obligated to publicly conclude his investigation of HC, and chastise her but ultimately his aim was to  remove a dark shadow over the election, or at least he thought. Then in the last 10 days, he got a bunch of new e-mails and felt since he mistakenly had out himself  earlier, he had to cover his ass, and he ultimately had to face that he might have thrown an election.I tend to think he was trying to redeem himself in his investigation of Trump, not through any partiality toward Hillary, but his own instinct of justice. The truth is something like that, probably.

The one conspiracy I could see was that I believe I read that Hillary's e-mails were first  found in Weiner's computer on Oct. 5th, and not shared with Comey for nearly 3 weeks. Ok, smells funky.

 

Regarding your apparent deduction that I am a hopeless conspiracy theorist, let me ask you this.... How many senators, representatives and insiders wanted Trump in office? Note: I am NOT asking you how many wanted Trump in preference to Hillary?

My answer: Probably not a single one!!!

So, is it really outlandish to hatch a simple plan to make a fool look like a fool and show him to the door before he wrecks the place? I don't think so.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Paul Brancato]

Michael - I think what you are doing isn't turning over stones, it's imagining what might be under them. You're theory that somehow Trump has been set up to take a fall is an example of that. Might be true I suppose. That's the best I can say.

[Michael Clark]

10 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Michael - I think what you are doing isn't turning over stones, it's imagining what might be under them. You're theory that somehow Trump has been set up to take a fall is an example of that. Might be true I suppose. That's the best I can say.

Fair enough Paul, I am not sure if you read my reply to Kirk, but there were two points.

-Flynn was poison, and a number of people had to have known that. Heck, I knew that.

-Comey had to know the consequences of his actions. I left the question of intent open. Kirk made some observations that went further on the question of intent than I did.

I don't want to paint Trump as a victim, I can't stand him. However, I have seen squirrelier means of getting people into, or out of office, for sure.

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

6 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

I know there are still millions of Americans who do not get why Trump has never released his tax returns ... or even care about this.

Such is the political educational and emotional low bar state of this country. That is one main reason Trump may somehow survive the coming investigations.

There is only one reason for refusing to let his fellow Americans see those returns. If Trump and his backers thought those returns would make Trump look better than he looks now...they would have already sent copies to every media over-night priority mail.

Now imagine if Trump is forced to resign and Pence becomes our President.  I think we all should start scrutinizing this fellow big time right away.

My instincts tell me he would be much worse than Trump or G.W. Bush in his even more extreme religious, political and social views and beliefs.

And the most powerful groups that would want to keep Pence in office beyond 2020 know what it would take to make that happen despite more Democrats registered than Republicans ...  no matter how ominous and fear propagating those methods and actions may be.

Pence scares me way more than Trump ever could.

 

Joe, I think you're right. Pence is a total Neanderthal as far as the Environment, Women's rights, all social issues.

You've expressed in the past, one of the greatest tragedies of the Trump election was what it will do to the Supreme Court. Pence will set that back even further. Forget rolling back Citizen's United. Political corruption will continue unabated, and even get worse..

 

I think the Republicans would be wise to get Trump out of the way before the 2018 election. Pence won't make such a fuss, or try to suck everyone's attention. He'll be along for the ride with their globalist , financial agenda, deregulation, tax reform, repatriation, stripping of health care benefits, just as Trump was and maybe even be perfect as he won't inject any bright new ideas,or rhetoric that might lead to trade wars, or real wars.(fingers crossed as we have no idea what his foreign policy would be like) In either case, they will obviously suffer as result of impeachment and at least lose the Senate, but then could make a partial recover for 2020. I do think our next President will probably be Pence. But having said that it's a laborious process removing a President from office, as you well can remember. Particularly without tapes.The fact that most people will believe Comey over Trump probably won't be enough. They'll need either Flynn or someone else to turn evidence on collusion, or just such a preponderance of evidence of Trump being dirty with Russian money or influence that he can't effectively govern.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2017 by Kirk Gallaway