Steve Rymer Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 20 minutes ago, Michael Clark said: Regarding Gerrymandering: I have always thought that congressional districts should be permanently re-drawn by watershed. my 2 cents, Michael Maybe, I would prefer to see an end to postal voting and voting machines. This is where most of the dodgy stuff is. I would also recommend voter ID - it would stop multiple casting, the dead voting and busing in from other districts. There's also voter purging which is an issue - don't have a solution to that - maybe no disqualifiers. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Steve Rymer said: Agreed. Savvy and moderately intelligent in a specific way. I also agree he probably dreams of deals and share your opinion of business ethics, but he's not really done anything yet. I doubt he will use his position to line his pockets - that comes after holding office, but he's already rich. My concern is he lacks the knowledge to not be led all over the place. Problem is, he HAS to be led. He is in unfamiliar territory. And he will be by people with their own self-interests, intelligence and Savvy. It's inevitable. I think a captain has to have a cursory knowledge of all the functions of every compartment and piece of equipment on the ship. Trump knows how to bark orders, but knows nothing about our ship. Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rymer Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Michael Clark said: Problem is, he HAS to be led. He is in unfamiliar territory. And he will be by people with their own self-interests, intelligence and Savvy. It's inevitable. I think a captain has to have a cursory knowledge of all the functions of every compartment and piece of equipment on the ship. Trump knows how to bark orders, but knows nothing about our ship. Cheers, Michael Maybe, but did Reagan? Bush 43? Or even Obama? Anyway, I don't really do politics - not this stuff anyway. It's a con. Got any comments on Comey's connection to previous Clinton investigations? Which is where I started... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, Steve Rymer said: Maybe, I would prefer to see an end to postal voting and voting machines. This is where most of the dodgy stuff is. I would also recommend voter ID - it would stop multiple casting, the dead voting and busing in from other districts. There's also voter purging which is an issue - don't have a solution to that - maybe no disqualifiers. Steve Steve, To be sure, I was not thinking about voting. I was thinking more about the efficiency of administration, control and allotment of resources, environmental responsibility and protection and the sharing of those responsibilities concerns and values. Also, those boundaries, at the headwaters are self defined. Downstream they would need to be defined but should never be changed. Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Steve Rymer said: Maybe, but did Reagan? Bush 43? Or even Obama? Anyway, I don't really do politics - not this stuff anyway. It's a con. Got any comments on Comey's connection to previous Clinton investigations? Which is where I started... Regarding Comey and Clinton, I briefly looked. I will look more. But this discussion will likely have become stale before I have anything to say. i have, within the last year, looked much more closely into the Clintons, Bushes, drugs, arms and murder. It is unsettling but, again, my knowledge is cursory and I'm not prepared to really make a case out of what I have found. on the surface, I think Comey is good, honest, has integrity, is fair, intelligent and Savvy. Regarding any Clinton taint, I am starting from the premise that it was unavoidable and undesirable to him. Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rymer Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Michael Clark said: Steve, To be sure, I was not thinking about voting. I was thinking more about the efficiency of administration, control and allotment of resources, environmental responsibility and protection and the sharing of those responsibilities concerns and values. Also, those boundaries, at the headwaters are self defined. Downstream they would need to be defined but should never be changed. Cheers, Michael Don't mean to be disrespectful, but it's not real. Government is the art of looking busy whilst never changing the things that really matter. Have you ever heard a politician say "Well, we've been doing it this way for xx # of years and it's works just fine. We've looked at numerous other methods and this really is the best way" or do constantly change things for the sake of changing them? If you are old enough you can watch old, abandoned polices re-introduced as new ones - just to shake things up. There is no best practice in government policy. One radical way to save money would be to stop changing stuff and stop funding quangos, committees, think-tanks, surveys, marketing campaigns, feasibility studies etc. My wife is a teacher and they can barely keep up with the changes imposed on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Steve Rymer said: Steve R. I like your term "Political Atheist" but at first thought one would probably interpret this to mean someone who doesn't religiously align themselves to "any" political group and the main candidates who lead and represent them and their commonly held views. Trump is not really an "outsider" in this regards. He is a lifetime member of the "Corporate" political party. Yes, this is a real political party. Distinctly separate from the two main ones we are used to recognizing but more powerful than either. Trump clearly represents and promotes the interests and agendas of this political group ( our top 1% to 5% of our wealthiest citizens who own and control over 75 to 80% of our nation's corporate assets ) as a number 1 priority well above the rest of Americans. Corporate America is that 1% to 5%. This is the small minority class of wealthy which owns and controls "the majority interest" in them which is basically the bulk of our nation's assets. The Corporate political party loves not being recognized as such ( obvious why ) but their powerful dark shadow presence is always there and influencing and manipulating and controlling elections and candidates and the other two main stream political parties more often than not. Trump's blustering and outraged yelling, finger and hand waving, podium pounding rhetoric about illegals and Obama care and so many other insecure emotion based ( fear, anger and personal frustration ) issues are all just over-the-top animated reality show theatrics ( which he is very experienced with ) and meant to dupe millions of angry and frustrated and easily manipulated American voters into thinking Trump and his wealthy class party are somehow the ones to lead them into their own promised land of ...what ... a society free of all that scares and frustrates them? But, this crazy reality show theatrics political gain format works in it's end game goal! Just like tens of millions of Americans now being absolutely enthralled with the inane TV shown daily doings of characters whose celebrity fame and attraction is nothing more than having incredibly large backsides, acting outrageous, being married to other odd people, haggling over pawned items and storage lockers and other crazy contexts. It's not unreasonable to say that our society and culture in the last 20 to 30 years has been seriously dumbed-down due in great part to this massive reality show media blitz ... coupled with the fear and hate mongering radio and TV political talk pundits who do this daily. Trump's popularity is born more from all these sad negative decline aspects of our current societal state than anything close to this created image of USA greatness saving crusader. To me, Trump is actually not mentally and emotionally right. He seems to be living in his own delusional bubble world of narcissistic grandeur that is so over-blown and out-of-touch with reality, that it is bound to POP and become exposed for what it truly is...a delusion. Just hope we all get through this crazy T.V. Reality show presidency without too much damage. Again however, Trump is the Corporate Party's man. They are just hoping to get as much of their agenda priorities pushed through with him in office as they can before he may be asked ( or ordered ) to go back to his previous occupation. Edited May 19, 2017 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Steve Rymer said: Don't mean to be disrespectful, but it's not real. Government is the art of looking busy whilst never changing the things that really matter. Have you ever heard a politician say "Well, we've been doing it this way for xx # of years and it's works just fine. We've looked at numerous other methods and this really is the best way" or do constantly change things for the sake of changing them? If you are old enough you can watch old, abandoned polices re-introduced as new ones - just to shake things up. There is no best practice in government policy. One radical way to save money would be to stop changing stuff and stop funding quangos, committees, think-tanks, surveys, marketing campaigns, feasibility studies etc. My wife is a teacher and they can barely keep up with the changes imposed on them. Steve, No disrespect taken. I am a dreamer. Sometimes that is stated as being an original thinker, or thinking outside the box. It's a good thing. IMO. Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said: Steve R. I like your term "Political Atheist" but at first thought one could interpret this to mean someone who doesn't religiously align themselves to "any" political group and the main candidates who lead and represent them and their commonly held views. Trump is not really an "outsider" in this regards. He is a lifetime insider in the "Corporate" political party. Yes, this is a real political party. Distinctly separate from the two main ones we are used to but more powerful than either. Trump clearly represents and promotes the interests and agendas of this political group ( our top 1% to 5% of our wealthiest citizens who own and control over 75 to 80% of our nation's corporate assets ) as a number 1 priority well over the rest of Americans. Corporate America is that 1% to 5%. This is the small minority class of wealthy which owns and controls "the majority interest" in them which is basically the bulk of our nation's assets. The Corporate political party loves not being recognized as such ( obvious why ) but their powerful dark shadow presence is always there and influencing and manipulating and controlling elections and candidates and the other two main stream political parties more often than not. Trump's blustering and outraged yelling, finger and hand waving, podium pounding rhetoric about illegals and Obama care and so many other insecure emotion based ( fear, anger and personal frustration ) issues are all just over-the-top animated reality show theatrics ( which he is very experienced with ) and meant to dupe millions of angry and frustrated and easily manipulated American voters into thinking Trump and his wealthy class party are somehow the ones to lead them into their own promised land of ...what ... a society free of all that scares and frustrates them? But, this crazy reality show theatrics political gain format works in it's end game goal! Just like tens of millions of Americans now being absolutely enthralled with the inane TV shown daily doings of characters whose celebrity fame and attraction is nothing more than having incredibly large backsides, acting outrageous, married to other odd people, haggling over pawned items and storage lockers and other crazy contexts. It's not unreasonable to say that our society and culture in the last 20 to 30 years has been seriously dumbed-down due in great part to this massive reality show media blitz ... coupled with the fear and hate mongering radio and TV political talk pundits who do this daily. Trump's popularity is born more from all these sad negative decline aspects of our current societal state than anything close to this created image of USA greatness saving crusader. To me, Trump is actually not mentally and emotionally right. He seems to be living in his own delusional world of narcissistic grandeur that is so over-blown and out-of-touch with reality, that it is bound to POP and become exposed for what it truly is...a delusion. Just hope we all get through this crazy T.V. Reality show presidency without too much damage. Again however, Trump is the Corporate Party's man. They are just hoping to get as much of their agenda priorities through with him in office as they can before he may be asked ( or ordered ) to go back to his previous occupation. Joe, Very well put, Cudos! Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rymer Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said: Steve R. I like your term "Political Atheist" but at first thought one could interpret this to mean someone who doesn't religiously align themselves to "any" political group and the main candidates who lead and represent them and their commonly held views. Trump is not really an "outsider" in this regards. He is a lifetime insider in the "Corporate" political party. Yes, this is a real political party. Distinctly separate from the two main ones we are used to but more powerful than either. Trump clearly represents and promotes the interests and agendas of this political group ( our top 1% to 5% of our wealthiest citizens who own and control over 75 to 80% of our nation's corporate assets ) as a number 1 priority well over the rest of Americans. Corporate America is that 1% to 5%. This is the small minority class of wealthy which owns and controls "the majority interest" in them which is basically the bulk of our nation's assets. The Corporate political party loves not being recognized as such ( obvious why ) but their powerful dark shadow presence is always there and influencing and manipulating and controlling elections and candidates and the other two main stream political parties more often than not. Trump's blustering and outraged yelling, finger and hand waving, podium pounding rhetoric about illegals and Obama care and so many other insecure emotion based ( fear, anger and personal frustration ) issues are all just over-the-top animated reality show theatrics ( which he is very experienced with ) and meant to dupe millions of angry and frustrated and easily manipulated American voters into thinking Trump and his wealthy class party are somehow the ones to lead them into their own promised land of ...what ... a society free of all that scares and frustrates them? But, this crazy reality show theatrics political gain format works in it's end game goal! Just like tens of millions of Americans now being absolutely enthralled with the inane TV shown daily doings of characters whose celebrity fame and attraction is nothing more than having incredibly large backsides, acting outrageous, married to other odd people, haggling over pawned items and storage lockers and other crazy contexts. It's not unreasonable to say that our society and culture in the last 20 to 30 years has been seriously dumbed-down due in great part to this massive reality show media blitz ... coupled with the fear and hate mongering radio and TV political talk pundits who do this daily. Trump's popularity is born more from all these sad negative decline aspects of our current societal state than anything close to this created image of USA greatness saving crusader. To me, Trump is actually not mentally and emotionally right. He seems to be living in his own delusional world of narcissistic grandeur that is so over-blown and out-of-touch with reality, that it is bound to POP and become exposed for what it truly is...a delusion. Just hope we all get through this crazy T.V. Reality show presidency without too much damage. Again however, Trump is the Corporate Party's man. They are just hoping to get as much of their agenda priorities through with him in office as they can before he may be asked ( or ordered ) to go back to his previous occupation. Hi Joe, Agree with a lot of what you say, but the Democrats are also the corporate party. The anger, disillusionment and disenfranchisement is also very real. It also explains Brexit. Have a look at Professor Mark Blyth. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rymer Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, Michael Clark said: Steve, No disrespect taken. I am a dreamer. Sometimes that is stated as being an original thinker, or thinking outside the box. It's a good thing. IMO. Cheers, Michael I love original thinkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Steve Rymer said: I love original thinkers. Steve, I have pulled-off many, impressive, Mcguyver-like feats in my day; to the astonishment of friends and co-workers. To be sure, I am a modest person. I am taking some liberties in this post. This is not the norm. Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Steve Rymer said: Hi Joe, Agree with a lot of what you say, but the Democrats are also the corporate party. The anger, disillusionment and disenfranchisement is also very real. It also explains Brexit. Have a look at Professor Mark Blyth. Steve Whew! a lot's been going on since I left. Joe, good piece! Hi Steve, Just to focus this conversation more.Since you agree a lot with what Joe has said, as do I. You felt to take exception .to say the Democrats are also a corporate party. Ok. and also earlier you've made a reference to the problem of globalization. Surely you realize that despite Trump's campaign rhetoric,and since his Presidency, despite his high profile tweets,he's really knuckled over in about every instance concerning globalization. So the question I'd ask you is: what would you do about globalization? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rymer Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 17 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said: Whew! a lot's been going on since I left. Joe, good piece! Hi Steve, Just to focus this conversation more.Since you agree a lot with what Joe has said, as do I. You felt to take exception .to say the Democrats are also a corporate party. Ok. and also earlier you've made a reference to the problem of globalization. Surely you realize that despite Trump's campaign rhetoric,and since his Presidency, despite his high profile tweets,he's really knuckled over in about every instance concerning globalization. So the question I'd ask you is: what would you do about globalization? Hi Kirk, I always frame the RNC/DNC argument like this. You accept the RNC is the party of the rich and powerful, but somehow think every 4/8 years they let the party of the people(PP) have a go. The PP raise just as much cash from all the same people, they often employ cabinet members and staff formerly employed by the RNC and enact identical policies (Obamacare should be named Romneycare - it was first proposed by him and was concocted by a right-wing think-tank) with the same outcomes. They do not improve the living standards of their core voters and they do not alter any of the core government policies (War/Neo-liberal economics/Globalization/Tax etc.). Nothing substantial changes. Apart the names of the vultures at the pig trough - would it really be any different if the RNC were in power? Most of the people in congress are multi-millionaires and became rich after being elected. Insider trading is legal for members. I am actually even more cynical than that. The DNC will enact legislation which the RNC then go on to use and vice versa. Bill Clinton repealed Glass-Steagal and signed NAFTA. Bush used extraordinary rendition and torture. Obama used extra-judicial assassination. Bush signed the Patriot act. Obama renewed it and signed the NDAA - which allows for indefinite detention and killing of US citizens without due process(Habeas Corpus). It ends Posse Comitatus - which prevents the military engaging in domestic law enforcement operations. If you tell someone that Trump can murder you without a trial - people freak, but if you tell them Obama signed legislation to allow it and has used it - everyone calms down(????) Still think you have real choice? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) So when in doubt, just throw out a bunch of subterfuge, or maybe go off on autopilot? The question again is. You expressed twice yours concerns about globalization.What would Steve do about globalization? Edited May 19, 2017 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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