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James DiEugenio

Vietnam Declassified: Kennedy, Johnson,Nixon

51 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

The following AV essay is an adaptation of my talk at the Future of Freedom Conference in Virginia last weekend.  It is based on the latest declassified info that I could find.  It is a comparative analysis of how the greatest American foreign policy disaster of the 20th century unfolded under three presidents.

I have come to the conclusion that what Nixon did in Vietnam was, in some ways, even worse than Johnson's.  Because as the reader will see, RMN knew the war was lost when he entered office.

https://statick2k-5f2f.kxcdn.com/images/pdf/VietnamDeclassified2017.pdf

Edited by James DiEugenio

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Two thumbs up.

Vietnam is such a heartbreak to me. So many of my friends' older brothers never coming back alive and one great friend of mine left a quadriplegic. I didn't serve until 7 years after the end of the draft but most of my senior NCO's of that era were all vets and had their scars, real, imagined, physical and mental.

I ask: for what? Communist Vietnam is not part of any "axis of evil".

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VIETNAM

We have seen the endless blaze

Emitting from your land

Watched you crouch in fear

Of your countrymen and mine

Not French or Yank turned willing tread

To slay you or to die

The greed of Godless men planned your fate

And our own

"Our brothers" they of't proclaim it

Ensnared us in that lawless horror

Your fear is our fear...your death our death

We are the people !

 

(C) H.J. Dean

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the poetry Harry.

Chris, yes I think I would have to agree.

For Nixon to continue the carnage for four years because of a Decent Interval, and he did not want to be the first President o lose a war tells you all you more than what you want to know about the guy.

And for LBJ to have deliberately disguised the break he was making with Kennedy, when he knew he was doing so, is really shameful.  And as I showed, the Kennedy guys knew it and did not say anything until seven years later.

 

PS The link to the AV essay has been corrected.

Edited by James DiEugenio

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Posted (edited)

James or Jim, I don't know which you prefer, the link still won't work for me, just a blank page.  Thanks for posting it though, hopefully it will be available in the future.  I'd hoped to listen to you, Jeff Morley and your discussion with Oliver Stone live on CSpan when it happened but life got in the way.  As Jeff used to say from time to time, Cheers.  FREETHFILES.  VOTE2018. 

Would be nice if it was all posted on youtube, food for thought.

Edited by Ron Bulman

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36 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

James or Jim, I don't know which you prefer, the link still won't work for me, just a blank page.  Thanks for posting it though, hopefully it will be available in the future.  I'd hoped to listen to you, Jeff Morley and your discussion with Oliver Stone live on CSpan when it happened but life got in the way.  As Jeff used to say from time to time, Cheers.  FREETHFILES.  VOTE2018. 

Would be nice if it was all posted on youtube, food for thought.

Hmmm, the link works for me. It worked for me before it was "fixed" as well.

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10 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

Hmmm, the link works for me. It worked for me before it was "fixed" as well.

It was impatience on my part.  I live in the country and often have slow loading speed.  I brought up the blank page this morning, left it up and came back in about 10 minutes and there it was.  Reading it now.

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Good Ron.  

Let me know what you think.  To my knowledge, this is the first time anyone has a done comparative study like this with the newest declassified documents.

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Posted (edited)

I like the presentation/format, the pictures as you read along add to the context.  I've not read in depth on the subject matter and found multiple points informative as a result.  Been going to read John Newman's JFK and Vietnam for years (did make it through Oswald and the CIA though a library copy, wish I had it for reference).  Taking it from the 50's to the 70's puts it all in perspective.  This could almost be a book within itself.  I have read on line arguments that NSAM 273 in effect reversed 263 only (?) four days after JFK's death.  Also, was it not in the last 2-3 months something came out about Nixon sabotaging  Peace talks in 68?  As I mentioned, the article is educational to me as is, thank you for it.

Edited by Ron Bulman

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29 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

I like the presentation/format, the pictures as you read along add to the context.  I've not read in depth on the subject matter and found multiple points informative as a result.  Been going to read John Newman's JFK and Vietnam for years (did make it through Oswald and the CIA though a library copy, wish I had it for reference).  Taking it from the 50's to the 70's puts it all in perspective.  This could almost be a book within itself.  I have read on line arguments that NSAM 273 in effect reversed 263 only (?) four days after JFK's death.  Also, was it not in the last 2-3 months something came out about Nixon sabotaging  Peace talks in 68?  As I mentioned, the article is educational to me as is, thank you for it.

Here is a recording of LBJ addressing Nixons gambit to sabotage peace negotiations.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qbEPI_9Ju0k

Greg Burhman has a great Video on NSAM 263 which I can't find again.

Burnhams video is important. Check out his site if you have not.

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Ron:

 

Yes as Mike notes above, its pretty well established today that Nixon sabotaged Johnson's attempt at a settlement in 1968.  That is from multiple sources today, including Robert Parry at Consortium News.  LBJ found out about it and was undecided as to whether or not to expose this before the election.  He decided not to, and that probably cost Humphrey the win.

IMO, its not actually correct to say NSAM 273 reversed NSAM 263.  It actually altered it to allow direct American naval participation in the Gulf Of Tonkin.  As Fletcher Prouty has noted, the actual reversal of NSAM 263 was more likely NSAM 288.  In that memo,Johnson actually allowed extensive targeting of the north with purely American air strikes.  To my knowledge, Kennedy had never done that.  LBJ then used that list for the Gulf of Tonkin retaliation. Therefore, the two NSAMs worked hand in hand in the expansion of the war.

If you are not familiar with the material, there is a reading list at the end of the presentation.  John Newman's book is a good place to begin.  But be sure to get his revised and updated version.

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As always incredibly informative.

The MSM sphere graphic is a nice addition tool in better understanding how newsworthy events are handled, processed, filtered and their truths controlled.

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3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Ron:

 

Yes as Mike notes above, its pretty well established today that Nixon sabotaged Johnson's attempt at a settlement in 1968.  That is from multiple sources today, including Robert Parry at Consortium News.  LBJ found out about it and was undecided as to whether or not to expose this before the election.  He decided not to, and that probably cost Humphrey the win.

IMO, its not actually correct to say NSAM 273 reversed NSAM 263.  It actually altered it to allow direct American naval participation in the Gulf Of Tonkin.  As Fletcher Prouty has noted, the actual reversal of NSAM 263 was more likely NSAM 288.  In that memo,Johnson actually allowed extensive targeting of the north with purely American air strikes.  To my knowledge, Kennedy had never done that.  LBJ then used that list for the Gulf of Tonkin retaliation. Therefore, the two NSAMs worked hand in hand in the expansion of the war.

If you are not familiar with the material, there is a reading list at the end of the presentation.  John Newman's book is a good place to begin.  But be sure to get his revised and updated version.

Thank you for the clarification regarding NSAM's 263, 73, 88.  But the change in procedure did start with the change in wording and Johnsons signing of 273 less than a week after JFK's death? 

I'm finally ordering the New version of JFK and Vietnam today, though it has a somewhat hefty price tag it looks to be Historic.   Maybe my kids will learn from it someday too.

https://www.amazon.com/JFK-Vietnam-Deception-Intrigue-Struggle/dp/153047793X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1497506925&sr=1-1&keywords=jfk+and+vietnam+2nd+edition

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Johnson, in phone call to McNamara:

I want you to dictate me a memorandum
… Now why’d you say you’d send a thousand home
in October of 1963? Why did McNamara say they
were coming back home in ’65? ... That doesn’t
mean everybody comes back, but that your training
ought to be in pretty good shape by that time.
That’s what’s said, not anything inconsistent.

 

I'm surprised that in 2017 this important directive hasn't been plastered all over the internet by those who know the truth about Kennedy's plan to pull out of Vietnam, and Johnson's reversal of that plan.

Yet I just googled it and found it NOWHERE on the internet. And in only one book, Virtual JFK: Vietnam If Kennedy Had Lived by James G. Blight et al.

Though I have the feeling that, even with this evidence, those who say, "Oh, no no no.... Kennedy only meant he'd pull out if the war was being won" would say that Johnson was merely telling McNamara to clarify Kennedy's order.

Yeah, right.


Question:  Are any widely respected historians finally figuring this out yet?

 

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