Lawrence Miller and Donnell Whitter

[James Richards]

I was hoping to get some forum members' opinions regarding Miller and Whitter. John Elrod claimed that Oswald identified Miller in the jail; Miller having been arrested 2 days earlier with Ruby's mechanic Whitter. These guys were in possession of US Army weapons stolen from the National Guard Armory in Terrell, Texas.

Could Miller and Whitter be a legitimate link between Ruby and Oswald? Is it possible that Oswald was the informant that brought about their arrest?

I certainly would like to hear opinions or any other information forum members have on this aspect.

Cheers,

James

[Tim Carroll]

I was hoping to get some forum members' opinions regarding Miller and Whitter.  John Elrod claimed that Oswald identified Miller in the jail; Miller having been arrested 2 days earlier with Ruby's mechanic Whitter. These guys were in possession of US Army weapons stolen from the National Guard Armory in Terrell, Texas.

Could Miller and Whitter be a legitimate link between Ruby and Oswald? Is it possible that Oswald was the informant that brought about their arrest?

I certainly would like to hear opinions or any other information forum members have on this aspect.

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, as likely as I could state it to be, this is what Oswald was involved with. The following was posted last week:

It is important to keep in mind that the CIA was supplying arms and ammunitions to Fidel Castro, while at the same time still sending arms, aircraft, and tanks to Batista. We were "Arms Merchants" supporting both sides. In order to grasp why some Cubans to this day do not trust the United States is, perhaps, because of these political policies of old.

Tosh,

Excellent post! Slightly off-topic here but since you referred to the Armory Burglaries to supply weapons and munitions outside the US, I would just like to add how this is not an isolated practice to the Cuban Operation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It seems to me I read about a similar armory burglary in Texas within a couple of months prior to the JFK assassination. Does anyone know anything about that?

Tim

Edited December 12, 2004 by Tim Carroll

[Tim Gratz]

I was hoping to get some forum members' opinions regarding Miller and Whitter.  John Elrod claimed that Oswald identified Miller in the jail; Miller having been arrested 2 days earlier with Ruby's mechanic Whitter. These guys were in possession of US Army weapons stolen from the National Guard Armory in Terrell, Texas.

Could Miller and Whitter be a legitimate link between Ruby and Oswald? Is it possible that Oswald was the informant that brought about their arrest?

I certainly would like to hear opinions or any other information forum members have on this aspect.

Cheers,

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Raises the question what, legally, happened to these people. Do you know?

Is it possible Ruby's murder of LHO was to prevent LHO's testimony against Ruby's mechanic? (Of course, had LHO been convicted of the assassination, his credibility as a prosecution witness would not be very great!)

[Dixie Dea]

James....

Here is one interesting version I have. I was going to post the article, but it is rather lengthy, so will just give a link to one that I found.

http://www.jfkhistory.com/tramp.html

Also, I am sure you are familiar with Marina's letter to the AARB.

I personally feel that she was most likely influenced by her affiliation with the LaFontaines, at the time.

Although it does mention about Oswald as possibly being the Informer.

Dixie

___________________________________

Mr. John Tunheim, Chairman

JFK Assassination Records Review Board

600 E Street, NW, Second Floor

Washington, DC 20530

Dear Mr. Tunheim:

I am writing to you regarding the release of still classified documents related to the assassination of President Kennedy, and to my former husband, Lee Harvey Oswald.

Specifically, I am writing to ask about documents I have learned of from a recent book and from a story in the Washington Post by the authors of the same book (as well as other documents they have described to me). The book reviews Dallas police, FBI, and CIA files released since 1992, and places them in the context of previously known information. I would like to know what the Review Board is doing to obtain the following:

1. The Dallas field office and headquarters FBI reports on the arrests of Donnell D. Whitter and Lawrence R. Miller in Dallas on November 18, 1963 with a carload of stolen U.S. army weapons. I believe that Lee Oswald was the FBI informant who made these arrests possible. I would also like to know what your board has done to obtain the reports of t he U.S. Marshal and the U.S. Army on the same arrests, and the burglary these men were suspected of.

2. the records of the FBI interrogations of John Franklin Elrod, John Forrester Gedney and Harold Doyle (the latter men were previously known as two of the "three tramps") in the Dallas jail November 22-24, 1963. All of these men have stated that they were interrogated during that time by the FBI.

3. The official explanation of why the arrest records for Mr. Elrod, Mr. Gedney, and Mr. Doyle, as well as for Daniel Wayne Douglas and Gus Abrams were placed "under federal seal" in the Dallas Police Records Division for 26 years as described by Dallas City Archives supervisor Laura McGhee to the FBI in 1992.

4. The FULL records of the interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald, including his interrogation in the presence of John Franklin Elrod as described by Elrod in an FBI report dated August 11, 1964.

5. The reports of army intelligence agent Ed J. Coyle on his investigation of Captain George Nonte, John Thomas Masen, Donnell D. Whitter, Lawrence R. Miller, and/or Jack Ruby. I am also requesting that you obtain agent Coyle's reports as army liaison for presidential protection on November 22, 1963 (as described by Coyle's commanding officer Col. Robert Jones in sworn testimony to the House Select Committee on Assassinations). If the army does not immediately produce these documents, they should be required to produce agent Coyle to explain what happened to his reports.

6. Secret Service reports and tapes of that agency's investigation of Father Walter Machann and Silvia Odio in 1963-64.

7. Reports of the FBI investigation of Cuban exiles in Dallas, to include known but still classified documents on Fermin de Goicochea Sanchez, Father Walter Machann and the Dallas Catholic Cuban Relocation Committee. These would include informant files for Father Machann and/or reports of interviews of Father Machann by Dallas FBI agent W.Heitman.

8. The full particulars and original of the teletype received by Mr. William Walter in the New Orleans FBI office on the morn-ing of November 17, 1963, warning of a possible assassination attempt on President Kennedy in Dallas. I now believe that my former husband met with the Dallas FBI on November 16, 1963, and provided informant information on which this teletype was based.

9. A full report of Lee Harvey Oswald's visit to the Dallas FBI office on November 16, 1963.

10. A full account of FBI agent James P. Hosty's claim (in his recent book, ASSIGNMENT: OSWALD) that Lee Harvey Oswald knew of a planned "paramilitary invasion of Cuba" by "a group of right wing Cuban exiles in outlying areas of New Orleans.'

We now know that such an invasion was indeed planned by a Cuban group operating on CIA payroll in Miami, New Orleans, and Dallas--the same group infiltrated by Lee Oswald. We know this information ONLY from documents released since 1992, as described in the book I have mentioned. On what basis did agent Hosty believe Lee "had learned" of these plans, unless Lee himself told him this? I am therefore specifically requesting the release of the informant report that Lee Oswald provided to agent Hosty and/or other FBI personnel on this intelligence information.

The time for the Review Board to obtain and release the most important documents related to the assassination of President Kennedy is running out. At the time of the assassination of this great president whom I loved, I was misled by the "evidence" presented to me by government authorities and I assisted in the conviction of Lee Harvey Oswald as the assassin. From the new information now available, I am now convinced that he was an FBI informant and believe that he did not kill President Kennedy. it is time for Americans to know their full history. On this day when I and all Americans are grieving for the victims of Oklahoma City, I am also thinking of my children and grandchildren, and of all American children, when I insist that your board give the highest priority to the release of the documents I have listed. this is the duty you were charged with by law. Anything else is unacceptable--not just to me, but to all patriotic Americans.<

Please be advised that this is an open letter, and I intend to make it available to anyone who wishes to see it. The time for secrecy in government is over. I ask that you respond to me in writing within two weeks, and will take no further action until then.

Thank you for your attention to my requests.

Sincerely,

/s/ Marina Porter

Edited December 12, 2004 by Dixie Dea

[Shanet Clark]

Dixie Dea

Great Post, sheds much light on the topic.

Here is some common sense evidence that Oswald's role as an informant to FBI agent Hosty actually resulted in arrests. The field of knowledge he was aware of was secret, treasonous, right wing counter revolutionary domestic operations (ostensibly focused on Cuba) This totally ties in with the Marita Lorenz scenario of Watergate figures, Ruby and Oswald (or a lookalike) converging in 1963 ........

[Steve Thomas]

James,

I was hoping to get some forum members' opinions regarding Miller and Whitter.

Thanks for the photos.

Here is what I posted on the Lancer Forum back in 2003:

On December 1, 1963 Detective K.L. Anderton wrote up a handwritten report of a meeting he had with prisoner "Robert" Borchgardt.

DPD Archives, Box 2, Folder# 6, Item# 9

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm

In summary, Borchgardt said he had information about a gun running operation, stolen cars and narcotics.

Borchgardt said that he had gotten his information from 4 people both inside and outside of jail, and named them:

E. Dalrymple (the first name is hard to make out - it looks like Elrice)

Lawrence Miller

Perry Wydell

Marvin Fraizer

Borchgardt said that Wydell worked for Jack Ruby as a bouncer in his clubs "some time back".

(I have not been able to corroborate that yet).

He said that these four worked for a man named "Fred" aka "The Goose" aka "The Big Dago" in this gun running/car theft/narcotics ring.

I believe that "Robert" Borchgardt is actually Richard Borchgardt, who took part in Oswald's third line-up, which took place at 7:40 p.m. on the night of the 22nd. This is the infamous "Davis sisters" line-up, which may or may not have involved Howard Brennan.

In this same interview with Anderton, Borchgardt also said that Ruby was in hock to bookies for $40,000, and that if he killed Oswald, the debt would be forgiven.

What jumped out at me of course, is the name Lawrence Miller.

For those of you familiar with the book, Oswald Talked, you will remember that Miller was arrested on November 18, 1963 for an arms theft involving weapons stolen from the National Guard Armory in Terrell, TX. Rather than go over the details of the book, here is a brief description of Miller and Whitter from Mary Ferrell's database:

MILLER FIRST LAWRENCE MID/AKA REGINALD

Rt. 4, Canton, TX (1963) 'PHONE

Arrest Report, Dallas Police Department, 11/18/63; Houston Post,

11/14/93, p. A-1

DOB: 7/13/30. Arrested with Donnell Darius Whitter 11/18/63 at Gaston

and Hall, Dallas, TX, and held as suspects in theft of military weapons

from National Guard Armory near Terrell, TX. Allegedly identified by

John Franklin Elrod's cellmate (LHO ?) 11/22/63 as one of five men who

met at a motel several days prior to assassination. Jack Ruby was

supposedly one of the five.

WHITTER FIRST DONNELL MID/AKA DARIUS

326 S. Edgefield, Dallas, TX (1963) 'PHONE

CD 847; Arrest Report of Dallas Police Department 11/18/63; Dallas

Morning News, Tuesday, 11/19/63, p. 1-A; Houston Post, 11/14/93, p. A-1;

14 pgs being withheld - Record No. 180-10071-10289 - Agency File No.

010223 (FBI)

DOB: 5/30/20. Wife: Mary. Driving 1962 Thunderbird, HD5095, with

Lawrence Reginald Miller as a passenger when arrested 11/18/63 at Gaston and Hall, Dallas, and held on suspicion of robbing National Guard Armory near Terrell, TX. Had been attendant at V.E. Morallis Texaco Service Station and had "waited on" Jack Ruby.

In Mary's summary of Lawrence Miller, I was struck by the fact that the meeting in the motel room involved 5 men, including Ruby. According to the LaFontaines, one of these 5 men supposedly was Lawrence Miller.

Borchgardt said the he got his info from 4 men, one of whom was Miller.

The 4 men belonged to a "ring".

Is it possible that in his interview with Anderton, Borchgardt has identified the other men in that motel room meeting?

In Box 7 Folder #7, Item #17 of the Dallas Police Archives, in a handwritten note by an unknown author, in a listing of the 7:55PM lineup with Oswald involving Barbara Davis and Virginia Davis (witnesses in the Tippit shooting), Richard Walter Borchgardt is listed in position #1 of the lineup. Oswald was in the # 2 position.

Is it possible that Robert Borchgardt got some of his information from Oswald himself?

Steve Thomas

[James Richards]

Thanks to everyone who has replied. Some fascinating information indeed.

And Steve, that is the first time I had heard of Robert Borchgardt. That spun me out completely. It certainly does raise the question of whether he got information from Oswald direct.

For those who are interested, the image below shows some of the weapons that Miller and Whitter were in possession of. Sorry about the poor quality.

James

[Steve Thomas]

James,

And Steve, that is the first time I had heard of Robert Borchgardt. That spun me out completely. It certainly does raise the question of whether he got information from Oswald direct.

Borchgardt himself may not be lily white in this case.

Detective Boyd, in his WC testimny said that Borchgardt had been arrested on firearms, burglary and theft charges.

(In the printed text, it says, "CPW" and burglary and theft, but I think he actually said "CCW", or carrying a concealed weapon). Maybe he played a small tangenital role.

Steve Thomas

[Greg Parker]

Detective Boyd, in his WC testimny said that Borchgardt had been arrested on firearms, burglary and theft charges.

Steve

That is what Boyd said, but if you read Anderton's note, he said Borchgardt was being held for Houston PD on fraud charges. Maybe the above was his past record?

What jumped out at me of course, is the name Lawrence Miller.

Steve

Apart from naming Miller, his citing of Ruby's 40K debt was also impressive - even if he got the nature of it wrong.

I

believe that "Robert" Borchgardt is actually Richard Borchgardt, who took part in Oswald's third line-up, which took place at 7:40 p.m. on the night of the 22nd. This is the infamous "Davis sisters" line-up, which may or may not have involved Howard Brennan.

Steve

Yep. I was thrown by the Richard/Robert thing too for a while, but finally concluded it was the same person. The DPD files are full of such errors on names.

He said that these four worked for a man named "Fred" aka "The Goose" aka "The Big Dago" in this gun running/car theft/narcotics ring.

Steve

I have attempted to find out who "The Goose" is a couple of times over the last few years. It may well be me for thinking I could actually identify the guy...

Could Miller and Whitter be a legitimate link between Ruby and Oswald? Is it possible that Oswald was the informant that brought about their arrest?

James

Consider Ruby for that role. Not my theory... but it does come from one of the best minds in the business (I have to say that since he pokes his head in here now and again... ). His argument, I have to say, is growing on me...

Consider for starters, that Ruby had 2 cars... and that is why multiple searches of his car yielded boxes of new material each time - 2 cars searched - but officially only one. Consider that the guy who delivered the weapons to Miller and Whitter was allowed to get away. Was it because the delivery man was also the informant?

[Steve Thomas]

Greg,

I have attempted to find out who "The Goose" is a couple of times over the last few years. It may well be me for thinking I could actually identify the guy...

Yep, I've had my eye out for "The Goose" ever since.

Could Miller and Whitter be a legitimate link between Ruby and Oswald? Is it possible that Oswald was the informant that brought about their arrest?

James

Consider Ruby for that role. Not my theory... but it does come from one of the best minds in the business (I have to say that since he pokes his head in here now and again... ). His argument, I have to say, is growing on me...

Interesting. I've never thought about that before.

Steve Thomas

[Robert Howard]

Greg,

I have attempted to find out who "The Goose" is a couple of times over the last few years. It may well be me for thinking I could actually identify the guy...

Yep, I've had my eye out for "The Goose" ever since.

Could Miller and Whitter be a legitimate link between Ruby and Oswald? Is it possible that Oswald was the informant that brought about their arrest?

James

Consider Ruby for that role. Not my theory... but it does come from one of the best minds in the business (I have to say that since he pokes his head in here now and again... ). His argument, I have to say, is growing on me...

Interesting. I've never thought about that before.

Steve Thomas

I found an interesting item that I had been intending to post for some time, it may not be the most current thread on the arms stolen from Fort Hood but is perhaps worth a mention.

An article ran in the Dallas Times Herald on November 20, 1963 as follows.

International Inspection Tryout

Team Seeking Ft. Hood Secrets

Washington (UPI) How

effective would international

inspection teams be in any

disarmament agreement with

the Russians?

Four Inspectors from an

obscure Washington agency

known as “Project Cloud Gap”

quietly began to seek the answer

to that question Monday at

Ft. Hood, Texas.

Their mission: Without access

to headquarters secrets, to figure

out the amount and types of armor

on the base, which was the jump-off

point for the recent “Operation Big-Lift”

to Europe.

The governments unique experiment in

spying on itself is to see how inspection

teams might go about policing a

disarmament agreement with the

Soviet Union, should the international

climate ever make one possible.

The Ft. Hood experiment is the first

field trial of an actual inspection under

simulated circumstances. The four

inspectors wear red armbands. Under the

rules of the test they are to be neither

“helped nor hindered” by base personnel,

whom they may not interrogate anyway.

The four inspectors may move freely about

the base except in posted danger areas such

as firing ranges. They may take pictures

and are provided with cameras with both

regular and telescopic lenses.

The correct number of tanks and armor

at the base is known to Dr. Lessing A.

Kahn, head of “Project Cloud Gap”

in Washington but not to the inspectors.

The four who started Monday

have never been to Ft. Hood

which is the Headquarters of the 1st

and 2nd Armored Divisions.

Apparently, Project Cloud Gap was a joint

Arms Control Disarmament Agency-Department of Defense

field test program, which was approved in September 1962.

See

http://www.google.com/books?id=dwmQAAAAMAA...oject+Cloud+Gap

minutae?