Shanet Clark

Lt. Col. George Whitmayer

27 posts in this topic

Dawn,

I was given some information on this matter of lack of security recently: Some time back, on a different thread someone asked if there was any source aside from Prouty as to any official  "stand down" order. There is now, but he's "off the record" at this time:Lumpkin, I was told,  had far more power then was hereto fore known. It was he who told Reserve Ltd. Whitmore and other necessary men (out of San Antonio) that their services would not be required, in other words " To stand down". Lumkin, had this authority "over the entire state of Tx" .  More later as I learn same from an unnamed source who was there, and in a capacity to know these matters. 

Thank you for this. It reinforces something that I have long suspected about Lumpkin.

Would you do me a favor?

Around 11:00 PM on November 22nd, a cable was sent from The Commanding General U.S. Continental Army Command to the Commander in Chief, U.S. Strike Command in Fort Macdill, FL. This cable summarized a telephone call between a Captain Saxton in U.S. Strike Command and a Lieutenant Colonel Fons in the 4th Army Headquarters, Fort Sam Houston, TX. Part of the information in this phone call contained the following:

"Assistant Chief Don Stringfellow, Intelligence Section, Dallas Police Department, notified 112th Intelligene Group, this Headquarters that information had been obtained from Oswald revealed he had defected to Cuba in 1959 and is card carrying member of Communist Party."

Now, we know that Don Stringfellow was just a Detective and not an Assistant Chief, but could you ask your source if Don Stringfellow was a liason from the Dallas Police Department to military intelligence?

Thanks,

Steve Thomas

_____________________________

Steve:

I will ask. I am in an all day long continuing legal ed class for the next 3 days, 8-5 an hour north of me, so may not get to post much, but will ask re this.

Also, I did not post that last entry 3 times on purpose, when I tried to post it I kept getting "that page cannot be opened" showing that the site may be down, but I wanted this to be posted as I am about to walk out the door to my class. Sorry.

Dawn

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Hi Steve.

I find this to be a very interesting thread.

When you mention the lead car, does this reffer to the white car seen in the altgens photo. ?

Or is there another car some distance in front of that one. ?

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Shanet, Steve pointed you to my comments in the Lancer thread so you've got that - but to throw in a couple more observations:

1. Puterbaugh was introduced in various ways at various times by people who really didn't know him....he was an Ag Dept employee who was officially borrowed by the DNC and represented the DNC and by generalization the administration e.g. the White House staff although he was in no way attached to it. Whether all that is suspect is a completely different story and I happen to think it may have been even without Puterbaugh's knowledge...that takes you back to Cliff Carter who was standing behind the scenes coaching him (logically Carter himself would have been the logical political advance man and performed that function for Johnson both before and after the Texas trip....very experienced in that). However it does make sense that people introduced Puterbaugh in different ways - given that he traveled with Lawson and attended all the advance planning meetings, I expect many people assumed he was actually Secret Service.

2. No matter what we would all have wished, the DPD did not regard the motorcade as a security matter, they regarded it as a parade and as a traffic control challenge. You can see that in the morning instructions to the force, you can see it in many of Sneed's interviews with officers long after the fact. Its clear that security worries were about crowds and demonstrations at the Trade Mart - the DPD security chief was at the Trade Mart not with the motorcade and arrests had already been made there before the assassination. Previous violence in Dallas had all been when political targets were "on the street" in front of crowds - and there were special security precautions for that, we know that DPD built photo files of protestors and did special briefs for the door guards at the Trade Center. Based on history that made sense, as I have said repetitively (sorry) neither the Secret Service or DPD or likely any other law enforcement group had any history or experience with covert operations against public figures. You can see that in the primitive and pitiful way the SS handled threat intelligence - if somebody made a public threat against the President it got investigated, but only for that city, apparently the thought of even a lone nut "stalking" a President from place to place did not occur to them prior to Dallas.

3. Having mentioned my study of the 112th / MI which is available on CD I won't bore anybody but I think if you want to pursue that track you really ought to either check it out or get copies of the extensive investigation of the 112th conduced by the ARRB for yourself.

-- Larry

Steve,

Great stuff, as usual. Could you go over all that again and give

us your conclusions or hypothesis about what was going on?

From a first look, it seems that Whitmayer may have been

"out of the loop" a reserves MI guy who was not linked to

the 112th and the suspicious Texas MI/Ed Walker connected

Captain Sidwell.

What do you think was really going on?

Anybody else who has looked into this is encouraged to comment.

(great material lately --- thanks, everybody)

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Jim Marrs "Crossfire":

"A pilot car, which preceded the motorcade by a quarter of a mile

checking for 'motor accidents, fires and obstructions along the route'

contained Dallas Deputy police chief G.L. Lumpkin, two Dallas homicide

detectives, and Lt. Col. George Whitmayer, commander of the local

Army Intelligence reserve unit."

This, to me, is a very intriguing statement of fact. Has anyone looked

into this farther or developed any information concerning this car and its

official party of motorcade scouts?

Russ Baker's new book, Family of Secrets, has some information on Whitmayer. In 1956 Jack Crichton, a close friend of George W. W. Bush, started up his own spy unit, the 488th Military Intelligence Detachment. Crichton served as the unit's commander under Lieutenant Colonel George Whitmeyer, who was in overall command of all Army Reserve units in East Texas.

According to Fabian Escalante (The Secret War: CIA Covert Operations Against Cuba, 1959-62), in 1959, Crichton and Bush raised funds for the CIA's Operation 40. Originally it was set up to organize sabotage operations against Fidel Castro and his Cuban government. However, it evolved into a team of assassins. One member, Frank Sturgis, claimed: "this assassination group (Operation 40) would upon orders, naturally, assassinate either members of the military or the political parties of the foreign country that you were going to infiltrate, and if necessary some of your own members who were suspected of being foreign agents... We were concentrating strictly in Cuba at that particular time."

In November 1963 Jack Crichton was involved in the arrangements of the visit that Kennedy made to Dallas. His close friend, Deputy Police Chief George L. Lumpkin, and a fellow member of the Dallas Army Intelligence Reserve Unit, drove the pilot car of Kennedy's motorcade. Also in the car was Lieutenant Colonel George Whitmeyer.

In the Warren Commission Report it stated that Jack Crichton arranged for a member of the local Russian community, Ilya Mamantov, to work for the Dallas Police Department as a translator for Russian-born Marina Oswald shortly after the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Crichton's volunteer translated for Oswald during her initial questioning by the Dallas authorities in the hours immediately after her husband Lee Harvey Oswald had been arrested. According to Russ Baker, the author of Family of Secrets (2009), there "were far from literal translations of her Russian words and had the effect of implicating her husband in Kennedy's death."

Jack Crichton died in Dallas last month.

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When the Advance Car stopped at Houston and Elm, which Dallas police officer did those in the car talk to? - W.E. Barnett, Edgar L. Smith or Joe M. Smith?

Bk

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When the Advance Car stopped at Houston and Elm, which Dallas police officer did those in the car talk to? - W.E. Barnett, Edgar L. Smith or Joe M. Smith?

Bk

Is there any mention of the stop the advance car made at Houston and Elm in any of the reports?

Why did the car stop?

Who did they talk to? One of the three cops - Barnette, EL Smith or Joe Smith?

And what did they say?

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Shanet, Steve pointed you to my comments in the Lancer thread so you've got that - but to throw in a couple more observations:

1. Puterbaugh was introduced in various ways at various times by people who really didn't know him....he was an Ag Dept employee who was officially borrowed by the DNC and represented the DNC and by generalization the administration e.g. the White House staff although he was in no way attached to it. Whether all that is suspect is a completely different story and I happen to think it may have been even without Puterbaugh's knowledge...that takes you back to Cliff Carter who was standing behind the scenes coaching him (logically Carter himself would have been the logical political advance man and performed that function for Johnson both before and after the Texas trip....very experienced in that). However it does make sense that people introduced Puterbaugh in different ways - given that he traveled with Lawson and attended all the advance planning meetings, I expect many people assumed he was actually Secret Service.

2. No matter what we would all have wished, the DPD did not regard the motorcade as a security matter, they regarded it as a parade and as a traffic control challenge. You can see that in the morning instructions to the force, you can see it in many of Sneed's interviews with officers long after the fact. Its clear that security worries were about crowds and demonstrations at the Trade Mart - the DPD security chief was at the Trade Mart not with the motorcade and arrests had already been made there before the assassination. Previous violence in Dallas had all been when political targets were "on the street" in front of crowds - and there were special security precautions for that, we know that DPD built photo files of protestors and did special briefs for the door guards at the Trade Center. Based on history that made sense, as I have said repetitively (sorry) neither the Secret Service or DPD or likely any other law enforcement group had any history or experience with covert operations against public figures. You can see that in the primitive and pitiful way the SS handled threat intelligence - if somebody made a public threat against the President it got investigated, but only for that city, apparently the thought of even a lone nut "stalking" a President from place to place did not occur to them prior to Dallas.

3. Having mentioned my study of the 112th / MI which is available on CD I won't bore anybody but I think if you want to pursue that track you really ought to either check it out or get copies of the extensive investigation of the 112th conduced by the ARRB for yourself.

-- Larry

Steve,

Great stuff, as usual. Could you go over all that again and give

us your conclusions or hypothesis about what was going on?

From a first look, it seems that Whitmayer may have been

"out of the loop" a reserves MI guy who was not linked to

the 112th and the suspicious Texas MI/Ed Walker connected

Captain Sidwell.

What do you think was really going on?

Anybody else who has looked into this is encouraged to comment.

(great material lately --- thanks, everybody)

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Can anyone supply an obit for Lt. Col. George Whitmeyer (and will an administrator please correct the spelling in the topic heading?) Thanks,

BK

RIP April 18, 1978

Also need obit for George L. Lumplin (RIP July 15, 1994)

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VERY interesting topic going on here. Thanks a ton guys for the research and sharing. I remember learning how close Bush and Crichton were and of course Crichton serving under Whitmayer.

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VERY interesting topic going on here. Thanks a ton guys for the research and sharing. I remember learning how close Bush and Crichton were and of course Crichton serving under Whitmayer.

Lt Col George L Whitmeyer's obituary seems a little hard to come by.

Orlando Sentinel, The (FL) - October 13, 1993

Deceased Name: IRA GEARHART

IRA GEARHART, 83, 900 Canada St. N.E., Palm Bay, died Sunday, Oct. 10. Mr. Gearhart was a cryptographer for the civil service. Born in Plumville, Pa., he moved to Central Florida in 1964. Mr. Gearhart was retired from the Army. Survivors: daughter, Sally Gearhart Gillmore, Chesterland, Ohio; four grandchildren; three great-grandchildren; sister, Olive Gearhart Fuller, Akron, Ohio; brother, Russell, Arkon. Brownlie & Maxwell Funeral Home, Melbourne.

Washington Post, The (DC) - May 22, 1994

Deceased Name: PERDUE W. LAWRENCE -- Kennedy Motorcade Officer

Perdue W. Lawrence, 82, the Dallas police captain who was in the lead car of the presidential motorcade the day President Kennedy was assassinated, died May 15 in Cleburne, Tex. The cause of death was not reported.

Capt. Lawrence kept meticulous notes of the day's events and was one of the first witnesses before the Warren Commission. He retired in 1966

Dallas Morning News, The (TX) - July 18, 1994

Deceased Name: Services today for George Lumpkin , 40-year member of Dallas police force

Retired Dallas police Capt. George Lumpkin, 84, died Friday of cancer. Services will be at 4 p.m. Monday at Restland Memorial Chapel in Dallas.

Mr. Lumpkin served for 40 years in the Police Department and played a significant role in the investigation of President John F. Kennedy's assassination, his family said.

"Dad was in the lead car of the motorcade," said his daughter, Maureen Stone. "He was also one of the first to reach the hospital when Kennedy was shot."

He also served 39 months in the Army during World War II, receiving the Bronze Star for taking part the capture of 30 prisoners, his daughter said.

"He captured them without killing them," Mrs. Stone said. "My father believed in not using guns unless necessary."

He retired as a colonel from the Army Reserves and was awarded the Legion of Merit for his service as commandant of the Dallas Area Army Reserve School.

Other survivors include his wife, Katherine Lumpkin; son Michael Lumpkin of Dallas; sister Mildred Bunch of Arlington; six grandchildren; and two great-grandchildren.

There are several Whitmeyer's listed here

http://www.rootsweb..../fairmount.html

although something tells me that is another branch of the family,

from what I can tell I believe his obituary would turn up near

Tyler, Texas.

According to a very detailed article on the website below the pilot car

was a "White Ford Sedan," it should definitely be noted that the Lead car,

according to the same article was "an unmarked white Ford police sedan"

See

http://www.worldling...y_assassination

It may come as a surprise, but Jim Bishop's The Day Kennedy Died

seems to have more passages related to the pilot car than

Manchester's Death of A President.......

Even though I believe DOAP is an infinitely better book......

I was looking through it today, and there are passages

that are amazing, even for someone who

knows a lot regarding the assassination.

Although the following does not have to do with the pilot car,

I had never heard of the following, I think it deserves to be included

in the Air Force One Transmissions thread.

The Day Kennedy Was Shot Jack Jove cited pages 121-123, 318; by Bishop, Jim (1968)

Jack Jove stood in the glass octagonal tower and watched the Clipper coming, head on, with about 20-degree flaps, like a dragonfly trailing a dirty veil.

It was over the skyscrapers of downtown Dallas, dropping steadily. The overhead speaker crackled and the first officer gave his call letters and said, " . . . . on final 31 right."

Jove, chief of FAA at Love Field, watched five of his men work the consoles. A radar man below had the plane on scope and said: "Okay, Pan American Clipper 729."

It was obvious to Jove that, in flight, the three presidential planes had spread further apart. They had taken off from Carswell at two-minute intervals but radar showed that the Clipper had come in a little faster; the Vice-President's AF-2 had swung wide to the right, which gave it additional space; and Colonel Swindall had climbed to 7,000 feet to ease the moderate turbulence and held the speed down to a minimum.

Mr Jove liked that. A little spacing never hurt any aircraft. He was a dark wavy-haired man with an office below the tower, but he wanted to be in the tower this time. Two weeks ago, the Air Force had sent Major Charles Nedbal to Jove to work out the entire procedure. It was a nothing flight, from nowhere to nowhere in no time, but Nedbal wanted to know where the fire trucks and ambulance would be stationed, whether they could follow the plane on an apron runway without being hit by jet blast, who would man the "Follow Me" jeep, what turns would be made, and where each of the three planes would come to rest.

He also had to know and report on departure procedures when the President had finished his Trade Mart speech; what gate; what minute of what hour; what commercial jets might be taking off or landing at Love Field at 2:45 P.M.; when he could have a weather projection for Nov. 22, 1963, and what would be the three favored flight plans direct to Bergstrom Air Force Base at Austin, Texas

..........There was a parking area for 1,666 automobiles, but it was not enough and there was contention between the police and the residents. Love was used by several airlines the main ones were American, Braniff, Delta, and Eastern. Mr Jove used his binoculars and could see mechanics on the opposite side of the field dropping work to come out on the apron.

Has anyone ever heard of this guy, Jack Jove?

Edited by Robert Howard

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The Day Kennedy Was Shot Jack Jove cited pages 121-123, 318; by Bishop, Jim (1968)

Jack Jove stood in the glass octagonal tower and watched the Clipper coming, head on, with about 20-degree flaps, like a dragonfly trailing a dirty veil.

It was over the skyscrapers of downtown Dallas, dropping steadily. The overhead speaker crackled and the first officer gave his call letters and said, " . . . . on final 31 right."

Jove, chief of FAA at Love Field, watched five of his men work the consoles. A radar man below had the plane on scope and said: "Okay, Pan American Clipper 729."

It was obvious to Jove that, in flight, the three presidential planes had spread further apart. They had taken off from Carswell at two-minute intervals but radar showed that the Clipper had come in a little faster; the Vice-President's AF-2 had swung wide to the right, which gave it additional space; and Colonel Swindall had climbed to 7,000 feet to ease the moderate turbulence and held the speed down to a minimum.

Mr Jove liked that. A little spacing never hurt any aircraft. He was a dark wavy-haired man with an office below the tower, but he wanted to be in the tower this time. Two weeks ago, the Air Force had sent Major Charles Nedbal to Jove to work out the entire procedure. It was a nothing flight, from nowhere to nowhere in no time, but Nedbal wanted to know where the fire trucks and ambulance would be stationed, whether they could follow the plane on an apron runway without being hit by jet blast, who would man the "Follow Me" jeep, what turns would be made, and where each of the three planes would come to rest.

He also had to know and report on departure procedures when the President had finished his Trade Mart speech; what gate; what minute of what hour; what commercial jets might be taking off or landing at Love Field at 2:45 P.M.; when he could have a weather projection for Nov. 22, 1963, and what would be the three favored flight plans direct to Bergstrom Air Force Base at Austin, Texas

..........There was a parking area for 1,666 automobiles, but it was not enough and there was contention between the police and the residents. Love was used by several airlines the main ones were American, Braniff, Delta, and Eastern. Mr Jove used his binoculars and could see mechanics on the opposite side of the field dropping work to come out on the apron.

Has anyone ever heard of this guy, Jack Jove?

Guess Not.......

A Followup.........

Whitmeyer, Frances Raby was born February 21, 1922 and passed away April 4, 2009. Frances was born in Athens, Alabama to S.W. and Donna Raby. She graduated from Alabama Women's College in Athens. She moved to New Orleans and worked for the Lykes Steamship Co. and also for the City of New Orleans helping to translate French law into English. She later married George Whitmeyer and they moved to Germany where he was stationed after the war. They moved to Fort Worth in 1961 and then to Dallas in 1963. She pursued her love of antiques by first working for a silver dealer and eventually opening her own business in the 1960's on Sale St. and Dickason. She later moved her shop to Milam and N. Henderson. She loved the antique business and made so many friends during those years. She also was an estate appraiser. Her husband George, Sr. and her youngest son, Glenn, preceded her in death. She is survived by her son George, Jr., daughter-in-law Cindy and granddaughters Lindsey and Allison. A graveside service will be held Tuesday, April 7, 2009 at 1:00 p.m. at Restland Memorial Park.

END

DMN April 19, 1978

Whitmeyer, George L., Sr., 5301

Mockingbird Lane, Survived by

wife, Frances Whitmeyer; Son,

George Whitmeyer, Jr., Glenn

Whitmeyer, Dallas; brothers

John Whitmeyer, Roselle Park, N.J.,

Victor Whitmeyer, Cranford N.J.,

sisters, Helen Arthur Kenilworth,

N.J., Louise William,

Philadelphia, Pa., Services 2:00 pm

Thursday RESTLAND WILDWOOD

CHAPEL, Greenville Ave. at

Restland Rd., Internment Restland

Memorial Park Full

military graveside service

Restland Laureland

Greenville Ave. at Restland Rd

238-7111

END

mary ferrell's website bio of Whitmeyer,

is reposted here, "WC Vol 21, p. 578; WC Vol 24, pp. 295, 323; CIA 1642-1092 re "military assistant" to

J. Walton Moore of CIA; Dallas Morning News, Wednesday, April 19, 1978, p. 5-D.

Mary's Comments: He rode in Pilot Car in 11/22/63 motorcade. Was he the "military assistant" assigned to

assist J. Walton Moore in running the Dallas CIA office? 1963-1964 City Directories list him as

Area Commander USA Reserve Training Center. In 1963, his wife Frances Raby Whitmeyer had a gift shop

in [the Dallas] Trade Mart. There was a rumor that FBI set up command post in her shop on 11/22/63.

[Robert: i could really go places on this rumor business, if anyone really knows the name of the shop.]

FBI 62-109060 JFK HQ File, Section 8 pg 28

Found in: FBI JFK Assassination File (62-109060)

At 3:25 pm November 24, 1963 Supervisor J.W. Burns telephonically contacted SAC Harry Maynor

of the New Orleans office with reference to the allegation of Airman Second Class Palmer McBride

who had worked with Oswald as delivery boy for Pfisterer Dental Laboratory, New Orleans, Louisiana,

from 1957 to 1958 at which time according to McBride Oswald was preaching the communist doctrine

and stated he would like to kill President Eisenhower in view of "Eisenhower's exploitation of working

people."

http://www.maryferre...58&relPageId=28

Defector [pfc.] Bruce F. Davis from 18 August 1960 to 19 July 1963

after leaving the Soviet Union he was given a lie-detector test on August 9, 1963 while at

the Frankfort Post Stockade, the INTC groups are clearly shown in the document referenced

when Oswald was in the Soviet Union, he had been primarily at Minsk, whereas Davis

was at the Kiev Institute of Technology for some 34 months.

below.....

Frankfurt Joint Interrogation Center (JIC) and the 513th INTC Group APO (757) U S Forces.

this document was prepared by Clay R Sturn 66th INTC Group

http://www.maryferre...16&relPageId=86

Robert: Palmer McBride had met a "Lee Oswald" in 1956;

(references Warren Report, 360; CE 1386; CD 75, pp. 16, 251-254, 325, 495-498; Lee, Robert Oswald, 76)

At the time of the assassination he was "an Airman Second Class in the United States Air Force at Patrick

Air Force Base in Florida." Without expounding on the possibility of whether McBride knew "the" Lee

Oswald, or an Oswald double, what I believe can be proven to a degree, is that the document in which

McBride is referenced as saying Oswald wanted to kill Eisenhower was forwarded by the San Antonio

office of the 112th MI Group, to Dallas within a very short time after Oswald was in the custody of the

Dallas Police Department.

DMN 11-16-1965

10 Dallas reserve Units Included In Inactivation

By Gene Ormsby

Fourteen Army Reserve units in Dallas, including 10 in the 90th Infantry Division,

are scheduled to be inactivated immediately, Major Gen. William R. Calhoun

commander of the Eighth U.S. Army Corps said Monday in Austin.

Some 1,000 reservists are attached to these units, but one local military

source said other units may be moved in from other areas to help absorb

the personnel.

Dallas bases with the 90th Infantry Division which would be inactivated

by the Pentagon order include:

HEADQUARTERS DIVISION ARTILLERY; Headquarters and Headquarters

Co., 3rd Infantry Brigade; 90th Division Band; Military Police Co.;

Headquarters and Service Battery, Battery A and B of the 3rd Howitzer

Battalion, 12th Artillery; Co. D of the 790th Maintenance Battalion;

Headquarters and Headquarters Co. and Co. A of the 1st Battalion,

359th Infantry; Co. A of the 2nd Battalion 359th Infantry;

All of these units are based at the Muchert Reserve Center

10031 E. Northwest Highway, and include about 800 reservists.

Other units expected to get the ax include the 363rd Engineering

Group's Headquarters and Headquarters Detachment;

the 327th Military Intelligence Detachment (Armed Forces

Censorship) the 406th Military Intelligence Detachment

(Armed Forces Censorship) and Co. B of the 719th

Transportation Battalion, all based at the Herzog Reserve Center

at 4900 S. Lancaster.

Lt. Col. George L. Whitmeyer, deputy East Texas sector commander

said the same units were listed more than a month ago by

Defense Secretary Robert S. McNamara as the ones to be disbanded.

McNamara announced at that time that the 90th Infantry Division

would be disbanded

Whitmeyer said he had not received confirmation of the orders from

Gen. Calhoun, but said they could take place in the next two to three

months. The Colonel speculated that in another location where the

unit is sharing facilities with a 90th Division unit which is being

disbanded the remaining outfit might be moved to another location,

hopefully Dallas.

"I hope they have something in mind to offset the loss," Whitmeyer

said.

Dallas personnel in the abolished units may be able to transfer to

remaining reserve units to complete their military obligation,

Calhoun said.

Other alternatives include enrollment in an Army Reserve school

or transfer to National Guard units or to a ready reserve

reinforcement pool.

Calhoun said the ready reserves or "select force"

will qualify members for a 50 per cent increase in drill pay

as announced by the Pentagon.

150,000 reservists and Guardsmen will compose the

full strength force.

"I do not anticipate that all Dallas personnel will find a vacancy

in other reserves of the Guard." Calhoun added. "If they cannot,

school courses leading to retirement will be made available."

Col. George Lumpkin, a member of the Dallas police force is head of the Dallas

Reserve School.

google books The Eccentric Genius, Trammell Crow

and How He's Changed the Face of America.

by Joseph Nocera

Texas Monthly Aug 1984

page 202, By the mid-fifties Crow was the biggest warehouse builder

in Dallas and on his way to becoming the biggest in the country. But a

little of the thrill was gone; so he turned to other pursuits:

he made an ill fated attempt to build a bus line;

he began building parking garages with Eugene Locke, the well-known

attorney who would later become US Ambassador to Pakistan; he constructed

a small decorative center in the Trinity Industrial District to house a

number of rug manufacturers. And in 1956 he got involved in the project

that would mark the next big turning point in his career.

He decided to build the Homefurnishings Mart.

Robert: Comment;

The Homefurnishings Mart was a unique concept for the time, the article

mentions his travels to Chicago and North Carolina; the idea which translated

to a cost of 5.6. million dollars, was so successful that by 1958,

he had to build the Dallas Trade Mart.

And on and on and on........

see google books mojo on the edge

Mother Jones Magazine May/June 1995

Help Wanted Spying on Allies

"The CIA's economic spies are currently

active in Japan, Western Europe and key

developing countries like Mexico, Brazil

India and the countries in the Middle East.

The recent spy scandal in France exposed

four U.S. diplomats and a NOC*— an American

woman working as a public relations executive

for the Dallas Market Center owned by

international real estate mogul Trammell Crow.

She was accused of trying to recruit and bribe

French corporate and government officials

to pass technology secrets to the CIA."

* Non-official cover

Also See

The CIA Crosses Over

http://motherjones.c...ia-crosses-over

Pondering the future, while wondering what became of George Orwell or

Does anyone remember that the "1984" Republican Convention was held in Dallas.

As a final point to consider, insofar as

just how well the circles of who knew who

back in those days specifically pre-1963

Dallas, consider Jack Ruby and the whole

Atomic Energy issue, the following

excerpt reveals just how essential

at least a rudimentary knowledge

of Warren Commission documents

are.

What can be gleaned is that the complexity

of understanding Lee Harvey Oswald

and Jack Ruby is made more confusing

by the lack of objective accounts

of what their motivations were,

according to their own words.

For Instance, There are multiple

assertions that "Oswald said,

he wanted John Abt to represent

him," but if you pay attention to detail

you will discover, the only assurance

we have of this is "what other people

said Oswald said;"

I believe it is far from certain that Oswald

even said that, nevertheless

the same point should be kept in mind when

reading the following excerpts from CD 732:

Jack Ruby is simply a contact point for these

persons, what I believe is really interesting

is the fact that Chance-Vought is not exactly

unheard of in JFK lore

CD 732 - FBI Letter from Director of 07 Apr 1964 with Attachments; 24 pages

Letter to Lee Rankin from J Edgar Hoover

In response to your letter of March 3, 1964, a thorough search was made of all FBI records. Copies of all the records located wherein mention is made of Ruby prior to Nov. 23, 1963 have been prepared and are being forwarded to you.

Item 1 Information indicating that in March 1962 Ruby was the owner of the Carousel Club. This information was developed in connection with a survey of crime conditions in the Dallas Division.

Item 2 Information obtained from a confidential source during the course of an investigation concerning Ralph Eugene Young [3110 North Clybourn, Chicago, Ill.] which related to a possible violation of the Atomic Energy Act. The investigation was conducted in 1950.

Item 3 Information furnished by Bunny Breen.....

Item 4 Information obtained from Lt Jack Revill on July 9, 1959......

Item 5 Information obtained from......

Item 6 An interview with Jean Bostick on September 25, 1961.

Item 7 An interview with Mrs. Sue Brown on November 13, 1962

Item 8 Information submitted by Special Agent Ralph J Miles .......

Item 9 Information obtained from a confidential source.....

Item 10 The description of Jack Ruby.......

He did not furnish any information and further contacts with him were discontinued

A confidential source exhibited the records of the Ambassador Hotel which reflected that Ralph Young 3110 North Clybourn, Chicago, Ill., was registered in apartment 321, John E Wahl Engineering Co., and Russ Products Co., The source stated that had been brought to Dallas along with R. M. Piper, Fred N. Ruic, Charles Campbell, Donald Henry Mars, Leo Stukas, and Pat Henry Roethe by L. A. Robinson. It was the source's understanding that these individuals had been brought to Dallas by Robinson for employment with the Chance Vought Company.

Joyce Skillman R. H. Hopkins

LO-2841 Barba Carden, 4113 Hyer, Apartment 26

(It is to be noted that this call was to the original informant in instant matter and was dated Oct. 3, 1950 which substantiates the allegation of informant that she was called by Ralph E. Young on the morning of Oct. 3, 1950, from the Ambassador Hotel, Room 321.

also see DMN 12/16/1951

Engineering Company Leases Industrial District Building;

also see CD 1100 where it states:

1950 relative to Ralph Eugene Young who was suspected of violating the Atomic Energy Act.

In October and November 1950 investigation was conducted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation concerning a possible violation of the Atomic Energy Act by Ralph Eugene Young and Joyce Skillman, both then residing at the Ambassador Hotel in Dallas, Texas. This investigation was instituted when one Barba Carden, 4113 Hyer Street advised Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation that she and Skillman had been hired as stenographers by a private contractor at Los Alamos, New Mexico and were leaving Dallas soon thereafter to take up this employment. Miss Carden advised she had learned through Skillman and Young that the latter was endeavoring to ascertain information concerning various activities at Los Alamos, New Mexico. On October 6, 1950, Lillian Louise Kness, room clerk at Ambassador Hotel

in Dallas, advised agents she suspected Joyce Skillman and Ralph Eugene Young of engaging in the obtaining of secret government information, based on Skillman's unusual interest in servicemen and engineers staying at the hotel and Skillman's friendliness with Young. Max Moore, Plant Protection Division, Chance-Vought Aircraft Company, Grand Prairie, Texas, advised during the course of the investigation that Young was one of several employees hired through the John E Wahl Company of Chicago, an employing agency for engineers hired by Chance-Vought. Young was hired as a draftsmen.

Ralph Eugene Young was interviewed by a Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation on October 27, 1950. He said his interest in Los Alamos was prompted by a desire to promote the formation of a new company at Los Alamos, similar to the John E. Wahl Company of Chicago. The purpose of such a company would be to furnish engineers to various companies at Los Alomos, and, in order to promote the formation of such a business, he had attempted to secure the identities of the companies at Los Alamos which were doing work which required the service of engineers. He said he had asked Joyce Skillman to obtain this information for him, as she was to be employed at Los Alamos.

Young stated he had no desire to violate any of the laws of the United States and had no interest in Los Alamos other than as stated. During the course of the above investigation it was learned that among telephone calls made by Ralph Young

was one made to HA-3654.* It was further determined that this number was to the Silver Spur Club

* For a long time I thought that there was a missing digit regarding this phone number, but what I believe

is the case, is that in this time frame [1950], phone numbers in the Dallas area, were actually only six digits.

I am still not 100% about that, but I believe that is the case........

It also is good to remember "Oswald's alleged signature on a register at the Atomic Energy Museum, wonder

where the inspiration for that came from....I believe it had something to do with the above lol

I have several irons in the fire, but the Tippit thread and others will be updated......

Edited by Robert Howard

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Who is George Stratemeyer? On another thread he is mentioned as being in the pilot car. Does anyone have any info on this?

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