A Trujillo Sponsored Assassination

[Ron Ecker]

Tim,

To me, 9/11 was the work of monsters. But I'm sure that you think they came from the Middle East, some party-loving Muslim "fanatics" sent by a rich guy living in a cave.

Ron

[Tim Gratz]

I do.

If 9-11 was indeed a government conspiracy, then you are correct about America being ruled by mosters.

But of course it was, as you put it, planned by a Muslim fanatic living in a cave. And he indeed is a monster.

[Ron Ecker]

Tim,

This is not the place for a 9/11 debate, but one must ask about Bin Laden the same question that one asks about the Mafia, KGB, Castro, or other non-U.S. governmental suspect in the JFK assassination: how did Bin Laden have the power to cover up the crime? (I refer you to the 9/11 Commission Report, which actually managed to make the Warren Commission Report look good.)

Ron

[Tim Gratz]

Yes, Ron, somehow we did get far, fasr afield.

How we got from Trujillo associates sponsoring the assassination to Bin Laden and 9-11 certainly escapes me!

[John Dolva]

Perhaps this is a proper place to ask, to what extent is "the wealthy" organized internationally? Is there really a cabal of international bankers running everything? Is there really a group called the Bilderbergers that get together every year or whenever to plot the financial rape of everyone else? This leads ultimately to the idea of the "Illuminati," who worship Satan and sacrifice babies or dine on them when not counting their money. There are websites where you can read about this kind of stuff, but there's no way of knowing if there's an ounce of truth anywhere in it, which makes it seem like a waste of time to read about it. It all sounds farfetched, till you realize that something called the MIC does in fact exist and runs America and is all about war which is all about money which is all about screwing everybody else, and it's got the MI5 or 6 and whoever else on its side, and you've got real entities like Skull and Bones at Yale turning out such secretive world dangers as George W. Bush. Sometimes I don't know what to make of it all. I get this nagging fear that I'm stupid or naive to think that the "Illuminati" is a bunch of ridiculous crap, when I know for a fact there are monsters ruling America. Can any light be shed on this stuff?

Ron, I've spent a fair bit of time trying to find answers to those questions. I wonder about the effectiveness of such a facade in diverting, discounting, discrediting serious enquiry?

If it wasn't for credible infiltration and exposure of for example the boneheads, they would remain behind this 'mystical' facade. When the inner workings are not laid bare, rumoured rituals, oaths, and decorations such as skulls and foetuses in bottles lends credence to the loony reputation. When fascist connections and racism (genetics) is thrown in, pickled indian skulls, nazi tableware, and secrecy becomes more representative. There are a few people who are not infected with the nonsense who have researched these organisations. They're harder to find than the cosmic conspiracists. I think its good to discuss this Ron, to demystify it so that if there is information worth looking at one may do so and to some extent know how to separate the rubbish out. Not giving a xxxx what some people might think if you do look at this stuff helps as well.

[Robert Howard]

Tim,

This is not the place for a 9/11 debate, but one must ask about Bin Laden the same question that one asks about the Mafia, KGB, Castro, or other non-U.S. governmental suspect in the JFK assassination: how did Bin Laden have the power to cover up the crime? (I refer you to the 9/11 Commission Report, which actually managed to make the Warren Commission Report look good.)

Ron

If there has been an intended or un-intended residual effect of JFK research over the last 42 years it is a elaborate expounding on what David Wise and Thomas Ross called the Invisible Government some 41 years ago, unfortunately I believe, they only touched the tip of the iceberg. There is an area of research that I suspect many, many members of this forum are aware, in which the Kennedy Assassination is "somewhere amidst" a linear chart of scandals and sinister activities that go on to this day. I do not read the newspapers the same way I did twenty years ago, but I am not a "conspiracy theorist" or a "coincidence theorist" either, I am an amateur historian who delights in the Jack Webb, Dragnet "Just the fact's Maam" approach here in the land of the living. For one who wants to deal with reality on the topic the only people I can recommend (and I am sure there are others who are out there I am not aware of) are Carroll Quigley (Tragedy and Hope) and some material by Malichi Martin, who generally writes about the Catholic Church, but writes about the topic at hand as well. My other faves are Noam Chomsky (excepting that piece of dribble Re-Thinking Camelot (what is the deal with Chomsky and Nov.22 "He went to the other side"?) and Peter Dale Scott, the latter who is about? to release a book concerning 9-11 and Mess-opotamia (pseudo-phonetic spelling intended). As far as I am concerned, the biggest obstacle to a remedy for government nefarious-ness, is a Congress which does its job and isn't corrupt and an electorate that is capable of educating itself without watching CNN and Fox News to get it's take on reality. Neither of which I am afraid are the case. As for Gerry's inquiriy into members political leanings mine are posted on the thread John recently started for the Education Forum. I hope I didn't move away from the direction of the thread, I just wanted to respond to the last couple of posts.

Edited October 27, 2005 by Robert Howard

[Gerry Hemming]

Compare how we handled Batista, when Earl Smith essentially ordered him out of Cuba. I suspect we had the same power we could have told Trujillo he no longer could count on US support for his wicked regime.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After Trujillo tried to kill Betancourt of Venezuela, the OAS ostracized the Dominican Republic and looked to the U.S. to set an example. After all, we were angling for OAS support for the overthrow of Castro, since he was purportedly exporting terrorism, and a right wing exporter should deserve no less. And so the U.S. cut the Dominican's sugar quota and basically cut off ties, which had the same effect it had on Castro--it drove Trujillo closer to the Soviets. I can't remember where but I've seen several sources that assert Trujillo, the strongest and craziest anti-Communist in the hemisphere, was playing footsie with the Soviets by early 61, thereby writing his own death warrant.

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Colonel Arturo Espaillat [self-styled General] was permitted to sneak inside Cuba during February, 1961. Trujillo's "secret emissary" offered a "non-aggression compact" between Fidel & "El Generalissimo". Trujillo had arranged for the sale of his sugar through "cut-outs" long before RFK/JFK got pissed at him; and to sweeten the deal he offered:

[1] Inside Intel on the BOP plans, which he tasked Robt. E. Johnson to gather from Somoza & Ydigaras Fuentes;

[2] The return of millions of the old Batista pesos, which trujillo had confiscated, thus protecting the peso's mark-up with the Dollar;

[3] The guarantee of all POL supplies needed by Fidel, especially the spare parts and lubricants for the sugar mills;

[4] An unlimited supply of US greenbacks as commissions for the sugar, tobacco, etc. exports via Santo Domingo [Gringos called it the DomRep, Cubans called it Santo Domingo, which is the Capital City now, replacing the obnoxius "Ciudad Trujillo"];

[5] Fighter & bomber aircraft [some Hawker-Hunter Jets] in support of the FAR against the BA2506 at the BOP; and;

[6] Intel [ELINT, HUMINT, and SIGINT] alerts if the US escort task force transited south of the D.R.

This was just enough for RFK's group to make a deal with Marcello to supervise the take-down of the Afro/Mestizo dictator. After the "Little Man" meandered as a lost soul through Guatemala sufficiently enough, and upon finally reaching the airport at La Ceiba, Honduras -- he was picked up by Dave Ferrie and flown to a Gulf & Western cane-field airport in eastern Santo Domingo. The charade continued until Marcello whined to Garrison that the Cellini's [or their cohorts] were blackmailing him as having assisted in the JFK hit -- which is what started "Big Jim;'s" quijotic" quest in the first place !!

Quaker Oats,

GPH

__________________________

[Tim Gratz]

Quaker Oats?

[Pat Speer]

Quaker Oats?

Tim, Gerry's regular sign-off is "cereal' as opposed to "seriously." "Quaker Oats" is an extension of the joke.

[Terry Mauro]

Quaker Oats?

Tim, Gerry's regular sign-off is "cereal' as opposed to "seriously." "Quaker Oats" is an extension of the joke.

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Tim, Gerry's regular sign-off is "cereal" as opposed to "seriously." "Quaker Oats" is an extension of the joke.

I thought GPH's, "cereal" was somehow synonymous with "cheers", or "cheerio" [the English slang for a greeting, or a farewell], and Cheeri-Os, the American cereal, shaped like an "O", and supposedly made from "oats". Hence, "Cheerio, old chap." Or, "Cereal, old chap." As well as, his "Quaker Oats" sign off, with Quaker Oats Cereal. The cereal, "That's shot from guns!", from what the old commercials used to claim about it. At least that's what I'm reading into it. FWIW.

[Mark Knight]

Hmmm...maybe as I kid I missed the irony of it all...Quakers, who are known for being a peace-loving group, and the cereal bearing their name being "shot from guns"...

At my age, perhaps I oughta sign off with "Rice Krispies," since these days my joints seem to "snap, crackle and pop" a lot more than they should...

[Tim Gratz]

Me too, Mark! Old Amerricans for Freedom!

[John Dolva]

Me too, Mark! Old Amerricans for Freedom!

Heh, I thought this might have had something to do with it

(on the flip side is the fold from MAD topic).

Edited October 29, 2005 by John Dolva

[Terry Mauro]

Me too, Mark! Old Amerricans for Freedom!

Heh, I thought this might have had something to do with it

(on the flip side is the fold from MAD topic).

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Leave it to "MAD" Madison Avenue to come up with any old way to sell a product regardless of the misinformation, just as long as it "sells". Hey, another arm of Operation Mockingbird mocking the gullibility of the dumb American public, perhaps?

[John Dolva]

Terry, I dunno, don't know how to read that one. I think Hoover started to involve the bureau when kids started sending him applications for membership to 'The Draft Dodgers Club' and inquiries for 'Hoover Tonic'. General Walker, his lawyer Brig. Gen. Watts and others jumped on the band wagon and alerted Hoover of this seditious rag. Other parents and fine outstanding citizen kids sent a lot of alerts re the editors and even AE Neuman being communists. For a lot it was all tounge and cheek, but for some it was as bad as playing 'sounds of music' backwards. (note, the FBI did conclude that A.E. Neuman was a fictional character, on the whole they just grinned and bore it I think. Apparently one agent wrote on a concerned parents letter a comment 'the kid probably blew his dad a raspberry'). (Possibly the fact that one of the owners of MAD was a jew had something to do with things? Walker seems to have been a bit rabid.) They (MAD) hit pretty hard at the JBS.