Three Tramps.

[Michael Clark]

2 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

Michael C

They had a communist lined up within minutes of the assassination.

The real killers (tramps) who had been captured were let go.

Roger that, I was just thinking in terms of when things don't go as planned.

Cheers,

Michael

[George Sawtelle]

Michael C

And that´s a valid concern.

Apparently the plan was do not resist if captured since we will get you out.

OTOH, Oswald was told don´t worry you´ll be downstairs when the shooting starts so you have nothing to worry about. But the plotters didn´t tell him that there would be a guy who looked a lot like him doing the shooting from the sixth floor TSBD.

[George Sawtelle]

Michael C

Since this thread appears to be dying I don´t think anyone would mind if we steer off topic a little. Plus I would like to finish how the plotters pulled off the double switch.

Immediately after the shooting, the sixth floor shooter handed the rifle to a man dressed as a Dallas policeman, and used the elevator to get down to the first floor. The man dressed like a Dallas policeman and another man dressed like a Dallas policeman had walked up the back of the fire escape (routine security right! ) before the motorcade arrived; one stationed himself on the roof of the TSBD and the other went  over to the southwest window of the sixth floor. Both fake policemen then walked down the fire escape with a rifle.They got into a fake police car and drove off. The rifle has never been found.

Oswald either received a phone call at the phone near the front door of the TSBD or was told before hand to leave the building asap since his plane would be waiting for him at Red Bird to fly him and others to Mexico. Two Oswalds in the same building would mess things up. He was probably told not to carry a weapon to work since he may be frisked  after the assassination and it wouldn´t look good if he is found carrying a pistol. But they also told him that he needed to be packing for his trip to Mexico. The rest is history.

[David Josephs]

From what I could tell from the evidence...

The three "tramps" in DP were indeed let go by Decker while the three records of arrest for Gedney, Abrams and Doyle refer to three other people who spent a couple days in Jail that weekend...  the 2 separate stories of the two sets of tramps leads me to the question - why parade these three thru DP at all and why lie about who the DPD personnel were?

Ofc Harkness is the only one who acknowledges more than just those three were taken from the trains that day - last paragraph

 

Middleton was named as one of the arresting officers - except he wasn't at work, according to him

 

And neither Bush or Chambers recalls being involved with these three reports that weekend - I believe they were created and found well after the fact...

 

 

Edited March 1, 2018 by David Josephs

[George Sawtelle]

David

Harkness also is wrong about where Amos Euins/Eunis was standing during the shooting. He wasn´t on the grassy knoll. He was standing on the southwest corner of Houston and Elm. Euins said he walked over to the grassy knoll after he noticed people running toward the knoll. I´m assuming his testimony wasn´t changed.

It appears from the arrest record that Abrams, Doyle and Gedney were arrested at 4:00 pm. Harrelson, Rogers and Holt were walked through Dealey Plaza before 4:00 pm. Based on the shadows Harrelson, Rogers and Holt walked through Dealey Plaza at about 2:00 pm ?????.

The DPD doesn´t want to acknowledge that Harrelson, Rogers and Holt were taken in that day. If they did, people would question why a killer like Harrelson was let go.

Edited April 4, 2017 by George Sawtelle

[Steve Thomas]

13 hours ago, David Josephs said:

From what I could tell from the evidence...

The three "tramps" in DP were indeed let go by Decker while the three records of arrest for Gedney, Abrams and Doyle refer to three other people who spent a couple days in Jail that weekend...  

David,

 

If you read the FBI Report of an interview with William Chambers here:

http://jfkassassinationfiles.com/fbi_124-10179-10312

 

it looks like the three were, in fact, arrested twice that day. See pp. 2-3 of Chambers' interview. That would account for their various stories about  whether they were sleeping or awake, men in different colored uniforms, whether they were in a boxcar or laying on sheets of steels, etc.

 

What I can't account for is why they were held by the DPD after being told they were "free to go". 

A "fall-back" position in case Oswald didn't work out perhaps?

They were released and signed out by Beck on the 26th as part of a general house cleaning along with John Elrod, Daniel Wayne Douglas, etc.

 

Steve Thomas

 

[David Josephs]

8 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

David,

 

If you read the FBI Report of an interview with William Chambers here:

http://jfkassassinationfiles.com/fbi_124-10179-10312

 

it looks like the three were, in fact, arrested twice that day. See pp. 2-3 of Chambers' interview. That would account for their various stories about  whether they were sleeping or awake, men in different colored uniforms, whether they were in a boxcar or laying on sheets of steels, etc.

 

What I can't account for is why they were held by the DPD after being told they were "free to go". 

A "fall-back" position in case Oswald didn't work out perhaps?

They were released and signed out by Beck on the 26th as part of a general house cleaning along with John Elrod, Daniel Wayne Douglas, etc.

 

Steve Thomas

 

2 different sets of people Steve....

The men arrested were not the men photographed in DP..  the link you provide is the tip of the iceberg - a great collection of files

Is that what you are getting at here?

[George Sawtelle]

And the research community can´t have Holt running around Dealey Plaza with Harrelson and Rogers because just maybe Dunbarr is right, just maybe, and if he´s right about Holt he maybe right about you know who and maybe he´s right about JVB and ... well you know what mean.

So it´s Gedney, Abrams and Doyle.

[Roger DeLaria]

I've always found this video of Prouty discussing Ed Lansdale being in DP and involved with the Tramps episode very interesting, being a great scenario/coup orchestrator as Lansdale was. Clearly some theater for the public. Muddy the scene up, a good way to extricate some people? Who knows what these 3 were told they were to be doing. Possible back-up patsies?

Edited April 5, 2017 by Roger DeLaria

[Thomas Graves]

On 4/3/2017 at 5:41 PM, George Sawtelle said:

David

Harkness also is wrong about where Amos Euins/Eunis was standing during the shooting. He wasn´t on the grassy knoll. He was standing on the southwest corner of Houston and Elm. Euins said he walked over to the grassy knoll after he noticed people running toward the knoll. I´m assuming his testimony wasn´t changed.

It appears from the arrest record that Abrams, Doyle and Gedney were arrested at 4:00 pm. Harrelson, Rogers and Holt were walked through Dealey Plaza before 4:00 pm. Based on the shadows Harrelson, Rogers and Holt walked through Dealey Plaza at about 2:00 pm ?????.

The DPD doesn´t want to acknowledge that Harrelson, Rogers and Holt were taken in that day. If they did, people would question why a killer like Harrelson was let go.

In 1963, was Harrelson already a convicted killer, about whom the DPD should have known?

--  Tommy

[George Sawtelle]

You´re right. At the time of the assassination Harrelson had not been convisted of killing anyone. I think he had a criminal record however.

[Don Roberdeau]

Good  Day.... The photos of the three tramps was  scientifically documented on the assassination anniversary in 1997 to have been snapped at approximately 2:19 PM CST, Dallas time.

There is a still-existing, specific part of the TSBD building bricks wall seen in a tramps photo that sticks-out,  away from its main wall.  This specific part that sticks-out was exactly the same on 11-22-63, as it is today.

This part caused a shadow to be cast onto a close by, specific brick and its brick-mortar vertical line interface.  The timing of 2:19 PM CST of the three tramps photos was confirmed a match to the 11-22-63 tramp photo when that same part's shadow movement,  along with a clock,  were both simultaneously video recorded by GREG JAYNES on the 11-22-97 anniversary.

Does any researcher really think that anyone in DP directly involved in the assassination would remain inside the  kill zone  (or  anywhere  near it)  for over 109 minutes after their already successful attack?

Best  Regards  in  Research,

+ ++Don
 

Donald Roberdeau

United States Navy
U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, plank walker
Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges clearly

For your key considerations + independent determinations....

Homepages Website:  "Men of Courage": President Kennedy-elimination Evidence, Witnesses,

Photographers, Outstanding Researchers Discoveries, Suspects, + Key Considerations....

http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2009/08/1-men-of-courage-jfk-assassination_09.html

The Dealey Plaza Detailed Map:  Documented 11-22-63 Victims Precise Locations +

Reactions, Evidence, Witnesses Locations, Photographers, Suspected Bullet Trajectories,

Outstanding Researchers Discoveries, + Important Information + Key Considerations, in One

Convenient Resource....

http://i.imgur.com/rGmmWxD.gif

( 2012 updated map, + new information )

Discovery:  Very Close JFK Assassination Witness ROSEMARY WILLIS's
Zapruder Film Documented  2nd  Head Snap: West, Ultrafast,  and Directly

Towards the  Grassy Knoll ....

http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2011/01/discovery-close-jfk-assassination.html

Visual Report:  The  First  Bullet Impact Into President Kennedy: While JFK was  Still  Hidden

Under  the  "Magic-limbed-ricochet-tree"....

http://i.imgur.com/rfRH5jX.gif

Visual Report:  Reality  Versus C.A.D. : the  Real  World, versus, Garbage-in-garbage-out....

http://i.imgur.com/r8Ga26x.gif

T ogether
E veryone
A chieves
M ore

For the United States:  
http://www.dhs.gov

Edited April 8, 2017 by Don Roberdeau

[George Sawtelle]

Don

How long do you think the shooter/secret service man stayed around to prevent cops and people from jumping the fence to look for the shooter? The shooter acted like a SS agent after the shooting.

Plus, someone in the motorcade told his officers not to allow the trains to leave the RR yard.

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

Harold Dean Doyle, one of the tramps is one of the assassins. He died in 2008, there is a special place in hell for him. Do not believe a single word that comes out of his mouth. You can see the following photograph of him here. http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/pojfkwhiteslides01019.jpg There you can see the image of a rifle butt on his left lapel. He shot Gov. Connally in the back after John Gedney blew JFK's head off. If you think that the above image is cropped and fake, you can visit the Sixth-floor museum website.http://emuseum.jfk.org/ There they have other primary source images of the tramps. In these other images, you can see parts of the rifle butt imprinted on Harold's left lapel as well. These so-called tramps need to be fully investigated. Harold and John both served in the Military. We need to know if they fell into some money after the assassination, who are their known associates. Are they mob related or have military connections. As I said earlier, there is a special place in hell for these scum bags.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Keyvan Shahrdar

[Ron Bulman]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 0:36 PM, David Josephs said:

From what I could tell from the evidence...

The three "tramps" in DP were indeed let go by Decker while the three records of arrest for Gedney, Abrams and Doyle refer to three other people who spent a couple days in Jail that weekend...  the 2 separate stories of the two sets of tramps leads me to the question - why parade these three thru DP at all and why lie about who the DPD personnel were?

Ofc Harkness is the only one who acknowledges more than just those three were taken from the trains that day - last paragraph

Middleton was named as one of the arresting officers - except he wasn't at work, according to him

And neither Bush or Chambers recalls being involved with these three reports that weekend - I believe they were created and found well after the fact...

 

David, I'm wondering if you have ever read anything about a second set of tramps being found in a grain car South of the triple underpass about an hour and a half after the assassination.  This may have been hashed out and debunked on the forum before, if so, you or anyone please direct me there.  What I read on line 4-5 years ago was about after the search of the railroad yard was deemed complete 1:30-2:00 lee Bowers was allowed to release a train headed Southbound (towards Reunion Arena now).  As it proceeded South over the triple underpass and beyond Bowers noticed men run to it and jump on a grain car from the East side of the tracks, South of the triple underpass, near the West end of the Postal Annex building and it's parking lot.  He stopped the train, called the police back, told them which car.  Three men found hunkerd down/dug in to the grain in an open topped car, only observable from above.  The really intriguing part was police reports supporting the story.  Wish I could remember where I read this, relatively sure I didn't dream it and I'm not making it up.