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John Simkin

Dr. Jose Rivera

124 posts in this topic

I've been doing some research along those lines. I think the link to Gottlieb travels right through Dr. Jose Rivera to H. Warner Kloepfer and then Ruth Paine and LHO. I'm still convinced that there's a Gottlieb/Rivera connection when I consider Adele Edison's account of events prior to Nov. 63. Rivera was in Gottlieb's employ.

I thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on Dr. Jose Rivera. He was born in Lima, Peru, in 1911. After studying medicine at the University of San Marcos he moved to the United States. He resumed his studies at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore. He earned his doctoral degree from Georgetown University in 1939.

In 1942 Rivera joined the United States Army and served as first lieutenant in the medical corps. He was stationed at Walter Reed Army Hospital and later assigned to Halloran General Army Hospital in New York. In 1944 he was promoted to captain and went on a series of assignments in Italy and France and at the 198th General Army Hospital in Berlin.

During the Korean War he served in the Medical Field Unit and was promoted to the rank of major. After the war, he was chief of laboratory service and pathology at the U.S. Army Hospital in Tokyo. In 1958, he was assigned to the Reserve Training Center in Washington.

In April, 1963, Adele Edisen met Rivera at a biomedical scientific conference in Atlantic City, New Jersey. The conference had been organized by the Federation of American Societies of Experimental Biology. Rivera told Edisen that he been on the faculty of the biochemistry department at Loyola University in New Orleans, and that he was now living in Washington. Edisen was planning to visit Washington and so Rivera suggested she telephone him when she arrived in the city.

Adele Edisen arrived in Washington on 22nd April, 1963. She telephoned Rivera and had dinner with him at Blackie's House of Beef restaurant. During the meal Rivera asked Adele if she knew Lee Harvey Oswald. He also talked about the Carousel Club in Dallas.

The following evening Rivera gave Adele Edisen a tour of Washington. When they passed the White House he asked Edisen, "I wonder what Jackie will do when her husband dies?" After Adele replied "What!", Rivera said, "Oh, oh, I meant the baby. She might lose the baby."

During the tour Rivera made several comments about JFK. Adele later reported: "He asked me if I saw Caroline on her pony Macaroni, and all kinds of crazy nonsense, and I was beginning to think I was with an absolute madman.... Rivera's part of the conversation at times was difficult to follow, but many of his statements, such as the reference to 'Jackie,' seemed deliberately placed. When he spoke of President Kennedy, Rivera was extremely critical of Kennedy's position on civil rights. Rivera made many disparaging remarks about black people and the civil rights movement."

Later that evening Rivera asked Adele to carry out a couple of tasks when she arrived home in New Orleans. This included contacting Winston DeMonsabert, a member of the faculty at Loyola University. He then asked her to call Oswald at 899-4244. "Write down this name: Lee Harvey Oswald. Tell him to kill the chief." Rivera then said, "No, no, don't write that down. You will remember it when you get to New Orleans. We're just playing a little joke on him."

Adele phoned this number in early May and was told by the man who answered that there was no one there by the name of Oswald. Later, when she called again, the same man answered, saying that Oswald had just arrived but was not there at the time. Instead she spoke to Marina Oswald and asked her if she might call again in a few days to speak with her husband when he was at home. Marina only spoke Russian to Adele but seemed to understand her request because she replied, "Da". The next time she phoned she got Oswald, but he denied knowing Jose Rivera. Adele asked Oswald for the address where the telephone he was speaking on was located. Oswald gave her an address on Magazine Street. She did not give Oswald Rivera's message.

Adele was concerned that Rivera might be involved in a plot against JFK. She decided to contact the Secret Service in New Orleans and spoke to Special Agent Rice. According to Adele, "After giving my name, address and telephone number to him, I told him I had met a man in Washington in April who said some strange things about the President which I thought they should know. It was my intention to go there and tell them about Rivera and his statements, but I began to think they might not believe me, so I called back and cancelled. Agent Rice told me they would be there any time I would care to come in."

Two days after the assassination Adele arranged a meeting with Secret Service Agent John Rice. Also at the meeting was Orrin Bartlett, Liaison Special Agent of the FBI: "Mr. Rice was seated at his desk, and I was seated to his right, and the FBI agent remained standing most of the time. I believe he may have taped it because every time Mr. Rice got up from his desk, there was a partition over there, for example, and there was a phone there which they used even though there was a phone on the desk, which I didn't understand, but apparently there was some reason for that. So every time Mr. Rice got up to answer the phone or to use the phone, I noticed his hand would do this, and I would either hear a whirring, a mechanical sound like a tape recorder or something. It may have been audiotaped."

Adele told them the story of how she met Rivera in Atlantic City and Washington in April. She also supplied the agents with Rivera's office and home telephone numbers. Edisen later claimed that: "Agent Rice asked me to call them if I remembered anything else, and requested that I not tell anyone I had been there to speak with them. I understood this to be for my own protection as well as for their investigation. Both agents thanked me for speaking with them.

Adele contacted Rice a few days later and he told her, "Don't worry. That man can't hurt you." Edisen assumed that Rivera had been arrested and that she would be called as a witness before the Warren Commission. "When the Warren Report was published, I was mystified and dismayed by the conclusion that Oswald acted alone, and that Jack Ruby acted alone, for my experiences told me otherwise."

After retiring from the United States Army in 1965 Rivera started a second career as a medical research analyst at the Institute of Neurological Diseases and Blindness.

Jose Rivera died of pancreatic cancer in Naval Medical Center in Bethesda on 16th August, 1989.

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This is generally supportive of Judyth's account in TMWKK.

Oswald was involved with these "mad scientists".........

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This is generally supportive of Judyth's account in TMWKK.

Oswald was involved with these "mad scientists".........

Touche Shanet :ph34r:

Let's see if you can connect these dots...

The Koepfler's names and phone number is in LHO's address book.

Ms Koepfler and daughters visted Marina in New Orleans.

Ms Paine sent a letter to Ms. Koepfler RE: LHO and Marina.

The Paines and the Koepflers both belong to The Society of Friends.

Rivera is at Tulane in the summer of 63 offering research grants from NIH.

Koepfler researches genetics at Tulane for 25 years and is especially interested in twins.

Rivera gives Adele Edison LHO's phone number and tells her to tell him to "kill the chief".

Billings notes that " . . Fair Play for Cuba meetings may have been held at Ruth Kloepfer's home".

I found out through my research that the The Dallas South Central Yearly Meeting of Friends has a scholarship setup in H Warner Koepfler's name. (interesting connection here, no?).

I've also found MKULTRA documents with Rivera's name on them.

Koepfler and Clay Shaw jointly owned a real estate investment in New Orleans.

Did you mention Judyth and add the "mad scientist" comment as an attempt to discredit Adele's testimony? The problem is that Adele reported her story to the FBI within hours of the assassination.

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Did you mention Judyth and add the "mad scientist" comment as an attempt to discredit Adele's testimony? The problem is that Adele reported her story to the FBI within hours of the assassination.

Unfortunately Adele Edisen is sometimes compared to Judyth Baker. The story is definitely a strange one. How much documentary evidence is there to back up her story? For example, have the relevant FBI files been released?

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Bill Kelly: I am aware you have written about this case. I have also been in contact with Adele Edisen via email and I am convinced she is telling the truth. However, the story is fairly amazing. Are there any documents to back up this account of events? For example, have the relevant FBI documents been released?

I have been intrigued by this passage from the statement she made in Dallas, Texas, on 18th November, 1994.

“There were other references to the assassination which I only - he said, for example, after - he kept talking about it in this way, he would say, after it happens - it happens, what happens, you know, I don't know what he is talking about - after it happens, he would say, someone will kill him, meaning apparently the assassin, and I presume it was Oswald, although I never considered until much later that Oswald did it, but anyway Oswald. They will say his best friend killed him. After it happens the President's best friend will jump out of a window because of his grief, and there was such an event about two weeks later, the former Ambassador to Ireland jumped out of a window in Miami, his name was Grant Stockdale. Although, again, at the time I didn't make the connection.”

Grant Stockdale did in fact jump out or was pushed out of a window in Miami on 2nd December, 1963. What puzzles me is how the conspirators knew this was going to happen. What is more, why did they need it to happen?

Have you done any research into Grant Stockdale? My view is that he knew of the conspiracy and told Robert and Edward Kennedy about it in their meeting on 26th November, 1963. That appears to have been a mistake.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKedisen.htm

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKstockdale.htm

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John,

I don't think it's fare to compare Adele and Judyth, though they both have the medical research background.

While Judyth only gives info that is verafiable from books and published sources, Adele has given us literally dozens of new leads that DO check out and lead to others.

Stockdale is one example. Others have done more research on his death, all I have is a newspaper clip.

Other leads: Drs. Jose Rivera, his superior Dr. Carl Lamana, SS SAIC NO John Rice, Blackie's House of Beef, the New Orleans medical research community, etc. are all more significant and pan out with other leads.

As for your profile of Dr. Rivera, when she met Rivera at the conference in Atlantic City Adele was a research student with a grant from the NIH that Rivera provided as the administrator.

The Army Inspector General's Report on the Use of Human Subjects in Chemical Agent Research (circa 1976) notes that for the most part, subjects of MKULTRA (LSD, etc.) experiments were either prisoners, soldiers or students, and she was one of the subjects who has survived. It's time to go beyond Adele, and instead of concentrating on her, follow up on the leads she presents.

Doug Horne, a military investigator for the ARRB, requested Rivera's military files and got about 800 pages, which include his background, military postings and the name of his superior on the classified projects Rivera was working on.

Both in 1948 at Ft. Detrick and 1961-63 Rivera worked on classified projects under Dr. Carl Lamanna, who isolated the crystaline form of the botulinum toxin (the most poisonous poison) at Ft. Detrick and did research on Anthrax in the 50s. Dr. Richard E. Shope (U. of Iowa) says that Lamanna was with the Scientific Defense Biological Warfare Program at Ft. Detrick ( later USAMRIID).

The Church Committee discovered the existence of MKNAOMI, a joint CIA-USArmy research project and covert operational base that I believe Lamanna and Rivera were affiliated with. [see attached doc.]

Both Lamanna and Rivera were assigned to a joint Navy-Army research project at Monteray, Calif. at the time Oswald got out of the service and defected, and Rivera, besides being a teacher of nurses in New Orleans at relevant times, was assigned for the longest time - seven years - at Brooks Medical facility in Texas, which JFK visited on 11/21/63. While there, he broke off from the tour he was given to check out a special, new oxygen tank that could have possibly saved the life of his young son Patrick, whose medical condition Rivera was familar with from his NIH position in Bethesda, DC.

The most important lead Adele gives us however, is Special Agent In Charge (SAIC) of the New Orleans Secret Service office, who she talked to on the phone before and after the assassination, and who interviewed her in NO on 11/24/63 at the time of Oswald's murder. I'm sure Oswald's sudden demise suddenly made those whistleblowers like Adele to keep quite.

Rice is only mentioned in a dozen or so docs at the NARA, and in only one book as far as I can tell. Pat Lampert's lame book on Jim Garrison mentions Rice was looking for David Ferrie at one point. Then he disapears, though Adele says he was fairly young and we believe he is still alive today.

There are a number of imortant witnesses and suspects who are stll alive and should be located and properly interviewed, including John Rice, Jim Braden, Steve Kennan, Don Norton, Jean Aase, Carl Mather, the mystery man in Mexico City, and the positive id of the tramps.

Identifying them and their whereabouts, and asking them the proper questions would be significant, and having them testify under oath before a Congressional Hearing or a Grand Jury would be even better.

Bill Kelly

bkjfk3@yahoo.com

Edited by William Kelly

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Both in 1948 at Ft. Detrick and 1961-63 Rivera worked on classified projects under Dr. Carl Lamanna, who isolated the crystaline form of the botulinum toxin (the most poisonous poison) at Ft. Detrick and did research on Anthrax in the 50s. Dr. Richard E. Shope (U. of Iowa) says that Lamanna was with the Scientific Defense Biological Warfare Program at Ft. Detrick ( later USAMRIID). (Bill Kelly)

Bill,

Carl Lamanna is a very interesting character. He was part of the Military Representatives to the Armed Forces Epidemiological Board in 1965.

The image below shows him in the front row. He is the man wearing the suit.

James

Edited by James Richards

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G'Day to you James,

Thanks for the Pix of Lamanna.

He looks remarkablly similar to Rivera -

from Rivera's photo in military files. I scanned the photo in my old mac computer and

posted it at JFK Research a few years ago.

I think Jack White still has the scan filed away. Maybe he can post it for us.

BK

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Hi Bill,

These ones of Rivera will be in the Spartacus photo archives section of this site shortly.

James

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This is generally supportive of Judyth's account in TMWKK.

Oswald was involved with these "mad scientists".........

Touche Shanet :)

Hi Chris,

Let's see if you can connect these dots...

The Koepfler's names and phone number is in LHO's address book.

Ms Koepfler and daughters visted Marina in New Orleans.

Mother Ruth... daughters... Ruth and Karol. Ruth had studied Russian and Karol had recently returned from Russia as a student abroad exchange student.

Ms Paine sent a letter to Ms. Koepfler RE: LHO and Marina.

The Paines and the Koepflers both belong to The Society of Friends.

Rivera is at Tulane in the summer of 63 offering research grants from NIH.

Koepfler researches genetics at Tulane for 25 years and is especially interested in twins.

Rivera gives Adele Edison LHO's phone number and tells her to tell him to "kill the chief".

Billings notes that " . . Fair Play for Cuba meetings may have been held at Ruth Kloepfer's home".

I doubt it very much. They'd be just as inclined as the Paine's to do so.

I found out through my research that the The Dallas South Central Yearly Meeting of Friends has a scholarship setup in H Warner Koepfler's name. (interesting connection here, no?).

That's true. Though\ it's not just in his name. It's called the Kenny Kloepfer Scholarship after George Kenny of Dallas, and Warner

I've also found MKULTRA documents with Rivera's name on them.

Koepfler and Clay Shaw jointly owned a real estate investment in New Orleans.

That's not true. Wrong Kloepfer. The one you refer to was named William and members of Warner's family have specifically denied any knowledge of any relationship to him. William however, is an interesting character in his own right. He is mentioned in a memo during the Garrison probe concerning a "fag ball". His CV includes work for NASA, Chrysler Corp, Aerojet, Cryometric Co, and for the US Naval Ordnance Test Station as a systems engineer in underwater warfare.

A couple more things... they were originally from Ohio, same as Ferrie and moved to NO about the same time. In 1965, they lived in the same street (close by, as I understand it). Seem deal as above though... the family denies ever knowing Ferrie.

Did you mention Judyth and add the "mad scientist" comment as an attempt to discredit Adele's testimony? The problem is that Adele reported her story to the FBI within hours of the assassination.

Edited by Greg Parker

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John, I don't think it's fare to compare Adele and Judyth, though they both have the medical research background.

I agree. I was only commenting on what other people have said.

I still remain confused about how the conspirators knew that Grant Stockdale was going to jump from a high window in Miami. Until this is explained, I will still retain my doubts about the rest of the story.

Have you ever tried to interview George Smathers about Grant Stockdale? In fact, I suspect that Smathers knows a great deal about the assassination of JFK. Do you know why he left the Senate in 1967?

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(Quoting Edisen) - after it happens, he would say, someone will kill him, meaning apparently the assassin . . . They will say his best friend killed him.

This was of course before Ruby killed Oswald, which would not have been part of the original plan. "They will say his best friend killed him" suggests that the original plan was for Oswald to be eliminated by "his best friend." Who could that be?

The closest thing Oswald had to a best friend, as I recall, was George de Mohrenschildt.

Ron

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I see Dr. Jose Rivera does not have an entry at Namebase. Do any members know of any books that look at Rivera's career?

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