MKULTRA and the assassination

[Greg Parker]

The interesting thing about Puharich's technique of implanting metal in teeth and using this as a radio-transmitter quite literally to enable a programmer to "speak" to his subject, is that this is a method by which "Radio" could be considered part of a Manchurian Candidate operation. I had difficulty reading the Guy Nice correspondence. Is there any specific mention of this Radio aspect?

Jan,

Here are the things he says:

"I have in the past lived in West Europe. There, I slowly became aware that listening devices were being used to hear everything I said and did in my room and elsewhere. Then I began to see myself as paranoid, caricatured etc on TV and in the papers there".

He then goes back to the US after what he says were problems with a bank transfer which caused his account to double. Back in the US, he says he became a "marked man" because of that bank problem and that he has lost "his freedom to come and go" and "followed constantly."

"They first used film titles, stories etc to convey message to me. When I stopped attending, it had continued (never stopped) on TV and in the papers and then came police and ambulance sirens, train whilstles and every other form of public racket available."

"Finally I stopped going into town at all and stayed in the country as now, then came airplanes, small private planes buzzing the house very low every day. After a month or so, they must have been out of lies to tell these pilots, so then came the Air Force with their roar and vapor trails, and nearly always [?] square across my house as if drawn on a geometry board, all day, every day."

"To all this, I have not yielded an inch, to these messages, I have not reacted the least, or have done something else in the direct opposite."

"I have consequently been mocked and tormented unbearably, but far more than that, I have faced death many times and over a long period."

"I travel a lot and in various countries there have been Communist demonstrations against me."

"My troubles started in West Europe and I have never been to a country known as Communist. Who then is doing this?"

"My contact with Russians has been very slight, although I have seen Russian films and know from other sources that they are a rough, crude, bumbling, ignorant people."

"Only once in these two years of endless persecution was a Russian put after me and he ended up in a terrible fright. I tricked him."

"Who then is the acting intelligence directing all and causing all our troubles today, including the negro trouble? Those negroes are an easy-going people seeking trouble with no one; but now they have someone abetting them and teaching them to cause trouble. This negro trouble is the biggest bonanza the enemy has found."

I have no qualifications in psychology, but have, in a past life, provided services for among others, those with psychiatric conditions. Among those, I clearly recall at least two who believed they were being followed by ASIO and/or the CIA. Both those clients were drug addicts and homeless. Neither could give lucid accounts of that days activities, let alone why they felt they were being followed, and would not have been able to write a letter such as this. Not even close.

This second letter was not addressed to anyone, but given what is said in it, and in the Ruby letter, I believe it may have been meant for the JBC.

His belief that various media were transmitting messages to him may well have been the only explanation he could think of for what he was "receiving" in some other way eg electromagnetic/microwave/implant.

His profile btw, was very similar to Oswald's:

He owned a rifle. He received a dependency discharge from the Armed Forces. He was separated and had 2 daughters. He had traveled through Europe and visited Mexico. He spoke more than one language. At the time of his arrest he had been drifting around with only a post office mailing address. He was obviously (at least) reasonably intelligent.

I'm not welded to the idea he was a victim of mind control... just think it's at least a possibility. Does any of this help rule it in or out in your mind?

[Robert Howard]

I wanted to explore, and I do not doubt that there are some other noble persons on the Forum, who may feel the same way, the question...."Who Was General Donald Donaldson?"

I first came upon the name years ago in a article written by Fletcher Prouty, which states the following:

General Donald Donaldson, alias Dimitri Dimitrov alias Jim Adams, was intimately acquainted with the CIA people who planned JFK's assassination. He was in Holland to tell his story to NOS-TV and Willem Oltmans. He told Oltmans that Allen Dulles was the key CIA man in planning JFK's assassination. (Donaldson had been brought to the U.S. as a double agent during World War II by Franklin Roosevelt.) He held back his knowledge of the assassination conspiracy until the Church Committee was formed. He then took his information to Church, who brought him to President Ford rather than having him questioned by the Church Committee or the Schweiker sub-committee. Ford, Church and Donaldson had a meeting in which Ford talked both of them into keeping Donaldson's information under wraps.

When de Mohrenschildt was killed, Donaldson decided it was time to make his information public and to offer it to the Select Committee. He approached Oltmans, asked that his identity be kept secret, told NOS his story, and then remained in Holland while Oltmans attempted to tell the story to President Carter. Oltmans revealed Donaldson's identity on American TV and to the Select Committee when Carter refused to listen to the story. Donaldson then moved to England, and subsequently disappeared from a London hotel, leaving http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...elPageId=1large unpaid bills at both his London and Amsterdam hotels. The possibility is very good that he has gone the same route as de Mohrenschildt, murdered by the PCG.

See

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAchp15.html

After researching some of the more recent MKULTRA files at maryferrell.org, it has come to my attention, that one of the earliest "subjects," although there is some confusion as to whether he was ever actually given the "treatment," if you will was one Dimitri Dimitrov......

See

BLUEBIRD/ARTICHOKE SOFT FILE REVIEW - "KELLY" - DIMITROV, D. A

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...c.do?docId=3016

Since there was a literal scramble, by former CIA Director Mr Helms to destroy the MKULTRA Files, I have always been interested in that area. Once you read the above document, you will discover that Dimitri Dimitrov, was ostensibly involved in Greek, [Athens] politics circa 1949-52, and according to the above document & others I have read, the documents assert that Dimitrov was going to sell his operational knowledge to French intelligence and the CIA decided that they did not want that to happen; so, he was basically imprisoned for quite some time. See

MF: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY-WILLEM LEONARD OLTMANS, DIMITUR ADAMOV DIMITROV

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=1

My understanding of the documents regarding Dimitri Dimitrov, leads me to the conclusion, that there is a pretty good possibility General Donald Donaldson and the former were one and the same person......

Even more confusing however, is what happened to Dimitrov/Donaldson after DeMohrenschildt died.

Donaldson was Oltmans second person to throw into the HSCA investigation, and all I have been able to determine is that in an old issue of the Continuing Inquiry [Penn Jones] circa 1977, a Charles Spears asserts that........Donaldson was found with 17 bullet holes in his body [ostensibly in Europe somewhere] and the US media did not run the story.

Also See.....

Kelly Case

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=31347

MEMO: BLUEBIRD/ARTICHOKE SOFT FILE REVIEW - "KELLY" - DIMITROV, D. A

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=59985

SOFT FILE SUMMARY - TITLE OF FILE: KELLY

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=31346

After you let all the above documentation absorb into your cerebral cortex, you realize that you probably don't know as much about Willem Oltmans as you should.......Although Oltmans may appear to be something of a white knight regarding his assertions concerning George DeMohrenschildt, H.L. Hunt, Oswald et cetera, the truth is that Oltman's had been "cultivating" a relationship with George DeMohrenschildt for the preceding 10 years before his "suicide," and much of his information is based "his version" of what George DeMohrenschildt "told him," which was a very convenient situation for him when he testified before the House Select Committee, and DeMohrenschildt was no longer alive to neither rebut nor substantiate to the truthfulness or validity of Mr. Oltmans very own testimony.

I admit to a certain degree of confusion regarding what, if any country, Oltmans allegiances were ultimately to, and in those cases, I pretty much always side with persons such as Gaeton Fonzi, Peter Dale Scott, Paul Hoch etc, on matters of that nature that appear confusing.

And I am in complete agreement re Fonzi's perception of Oltmans.

Regarding the documents that Oltmans turned over to the Select Committee, Fonzi made some sort of reference to a pile of crap.

PS There is a bigger picture here, which delves into the whole dynamic of Helms, Gottlieb, and William Harvey and their roles in ZR/RIFLE and QJ/WIN in relation to MKULTRA, MKNAOMI. As an example consider that at one time Oltmans was in Leopoldville in the Patrice Lamumba era. A fact that beg's the question, why was Oltmans there, and what government or individuals instructed him to go there.

[Guest David Guyatt]

Thanks Greg. I'll also promise to try to sort out in my slothful, recalcitrant mind the difference between the dad and granddad. I'm both and it's confusing me no end.

David, I had no idea you were Austrian.

No worries, mate, I don't have a cellar. If I did, the only thing I'd keep down there would be aging bottles of claret.... assuming I could keep my paws of them long enough to allow them to "age".

[Robert Howard]

Robert - thank you for your very interesting post #120.

“While the technique that Ecke and Gladych are considering for use in this case is not known to the writer, the writer believes the approach will be made through the standard narco-hypnosis technique. Re-conditioning and re-orienting an individual in such a matter, in the opinion of the writer, cannot be accomplished easily and will require a great deal of time and the fact that an interpreter is required in this case complicates it considerably more. It is also believed that with our present knowledge, we would have no absolute guarantee that the subject in this case would maintain a positive friendly attitude toward us even though there is apparently a positive response to the treatment. The writer did not suggest to [ 06 ] that perhaps a total amnesia could be created by a series of electro shocks, but merely indicated that amnesia under drug treatments were not certain.

MORSE ALLEN”

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=8

This excerpt from the Artichoke documentation is further confirmation that narco-hypnosis and electro-shock techniques both to "re-condition" and "re-orient" the attitudes of individuals, and to attempt to wipe out memory, "total amnesia", were fairly advanced and operational by 1952.

The officially approved history of MK-ULTRA suggests that the CIA "discovered" Ewen Cameron's use of electroshock and "psychic driving" in a civilian programme in Canada in 1957. I contend that this is a cover story, or a limited hangout.

The official story suggests this aspect of mind control research travelled from the Civilian sphere (Cameron in Canada) to the Intelligence/Military sphere (MK-ULTRA funding) in the late 1950s. The opposite is almost certainly the case.

This conditioning/memory programming research was developed in the Intelligence/Military sphere (Bluebird/Artichoke) and was sufficiently successful for it to be tried in the Civilian sphere (Cameron's post-partum depression victims).

As usual, the official history is rubbish.

------------------------------------

On the specific issue of Dimitrov/Dmetroff/Donaldson/Kelly - the fact that he was linked to extreme anti-communist circles and was a Bulgarian working on "secret missions" in the Balkans in the immediate post-WW2 years (perhaps even

with US Presidential authorization), is reminiscent of DeMohrenschildt's White Russian background. I smell the likes of Gehlen & Gladio...

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=11

Dimitri Dimitrov, is or was an obviously under the radar type of figure in the JFK saga. Mention of him prior to the release of these documents is sparse to say the least and one of the few books that even references him is Oswald Talked by Ray and Mary LaFontaine.

The passage is as follows.....

What is known about De Mohrenschildt's March agony is that before reaching his

final destination, the Tilton oceanfront mansion near Palm Beach, he stopped

off at his apartment in Dallas to pick up some papers. He stuffed them in his

briefcase and kept going. On March 16, a Wednesday, he showed up at the door of

Nancy Tilton, the sister of one of his earlier wives, asking to be let in.

Alexandra, who regarded this close aunt as her mother-and who had discarded

Gary Taylor in Texas some years past-lived in the Tilton house. Her father,

arriving with the clothes on his back and the briefcase, was invited to stay on

as a house guest by Mrs. Tilton. She, it would turn out, was a soap-opera fan

and her favorite show was "The Doctors," both of which points would prove

germane at the coroner's request.

About the Russian 's final dash for freedom, Oltmans later wrote that he had

been told De Mohrenschildt received word from Washington to "go to Florida

where he would be less exposed." That presumably explained why the baron showed

up at the Manalapan estate. The Dutchman's source wasn't a psychic this time,

but supposedly a Bulgarian man with the rank of general in the US Army, Dimotor

Dimitrov.........

As I mentioned in my previous post. When reading documents about Oltmans, I get the feeling that he was in his own way, practically as enigmatic as DeMohrenschildt.

Researchers may recall that ostensibly Oltman's initial contact with the more documented aspects of the JFK saga, that is to say in JFK assassination books, was in 1967...... Citing the following passage in Oswald Talked.....

Russell announced another seeming Oltmans surprise in his generous 824-page The

Man Who Knew Too Much (focusing on purported conspiracy figure Richard Case

Nagell), published in 1992. He discovered, after De Mohrenschildt's death, "an

FBI file reporting that Oltmans had contacted its New York office on April 3,

1967 -- around the time the Dutch journalist first met De Mohrenschildt. It had

Oltmans saying he 'had received information from an informant in Western Europe

that De Mohrenschildt was the principal organizer of the assassination of

President Kennedy. ' A curious thing for a 'friend' to do to the baron."

But another glance at De Mohrenschildt's own manuscript, available for

fifteen years at the time of Russell's writing, shows that the matter was both

less -- and more -- curious than the conspiracy author suggests. It wasn't

surprising that Oltmans would tattle on De Mohrenschildt to the federal agency

on April 3, 1967, assuming the journalist believed he had something

world-shaking to announce, since as of that date the two men had yet to meet

face-to-face; they couldn't very well be considered acquaintances then, much

less friends.

What was strange was the nature of the "informant" in the FBI report. As De

Mohrenschildt reveals (in a manuscript chapter fittingly titled "Willem Oltmans

and His Clairvoyant"), this person was Gerard Croiset, an "amazing Dutchman who

has been solving crimes and murders all over the world."

De Mohrenschildt's chapter explains that as he was told by Oltmans, the U.S.

educated journalist became interested in the Kennedy assassination in 1964,

when, on a speaking trip to Texas, he ran into Marguerite Oswald at an airport

ticket counter. The two "sat together during the following dinner-flight and it

was during this journey that Oltmans first began to doubt the truth as to Lee

Oswald being the killer of President Kennedy all by himself and miserably

alone."

When Oltmans returned to the Netherlands, he discussed his mind-expanding

American encounter (Marguerite had told him he Dallas police interrogated her

son for forty-eight hours without making a tape recording or even keeping

notes) with another mind-bender, the clairvoyant Croiset. As psychics are wont

to, Croiset experienced a flash; he revealed to the journalist "that I

existed," says De Mohrenschildt. "Croiset told Oltmans that Lee had a friend in

Dallas, in his fifties. He described some of my physical features, including

that my name held the letters sch and the word de."

More significantly, the clairvoyant informed Oltmans that this partly spelled

out friend of Oswald, whom he also described as of noble descent and a

geologist, was "the architect of the ambush in which Kennedy had been killed."

Oswald, he said, "was only the fall guy."

Oltmans carried this news bulletin to the chief of programs at the

Hilversum-based television network. It may be worth considering that whereas in

America it was a gaffe for a First Lady to consult an astrologer, Dutch

authorities didn't blush at employing "paranormal" avenues -- men like Croiset

and Peter Hurkos -- in searching for bodies and lost children. At any rate, on

the basis of Croiset's pronouncement, we're told, the Hilversum management sent

Oltmans back to the other side of the world, Texas, USA, to check out the

story.

Initially, as I read the documents re Oltmans, I was suspect about the fact that he had attended Yale in 1950, for a brief time, and personally have never let that slip out of my mind. But if one wants to think of Oltmans as acting as a party in some Skull and Bones conspiracy, the documentation hardly supports that asssertion, nevertheless with regards to investigative techniques, nothing is definitively ruled out unless a factual consensus of incontrovertible evidence supports doing so.

Nevertheless, in researching Oltmans comments regarding Dimitrov in relation to FDR, I looked for corroboration of this claim and found none, ie Finis Farr FDR to name but one source, I am tempted to think of Oltman's testimony before the HSCA in the following context, "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull_ _ _ _."

If anyone can provide factual corroboration re Oltman's comments about Dimitrov having a relationship of any kind with Franklin Roosevelt, they are most welcome to post them on this thread.

As they say, we all are hopefully interested in keeping it real.

[William Kelly]

Thanks for that Jan,

As MKULTRA relates to Oswald, they weren't programing an assassin, a very difficult thing to do, they were programming a patsy, much easier.

BK

[Lee Forman]

Along the way, Artichoke/Bluebird/MK-ULTRA scientists almost certainly discovered that it was relatively easy to get a person to a specific place at a specific time - and in a disorientated or trance state if so desired. And thus patsies were easier to create than assassins. This certainly seems to fit the Sirhan Sirhan case.

Sort of like this perhaps...

My head is coming together a little now, and I say groggily that I'd like to see Lee now that we're in Dallas."

"You'll see him," says David Ferrie, then: "Casey, you never believe me on these things, but they don't even remember you. We slipped them something. You'll see."

I once had an interesting discussion with Hemming with respect to handling and a patsy - his own comments with respect to Dennis Harber was that he was a 'homo,' a drunk, and not even worthy of using as a patsy. That one stuck with me. In the case of the handler, Hemming was clear that a true handler worked behind the scenes and through cut-outs so that the individual being handled never even knew who his true handler was.

- lee

[Len Colby]

Thanks for that Jan,

As MKULTRA relates to Oswald, they weren't programing an assassin, a very difficult thing to do, they were programming a patsy, much easier.

BK

Hi Bill

My own belief is that there definitely were programmes to create Manchurian Candidate assassins.

Along the way, Artichoke/Bluebird/MK-ULTRA scientists almost certainly discovered that it was relatively easy to get a person to a specific place at a specific time - and in a disorientated or trance state if so desired. And thus patsies were easier to create than assassins. This certainly seems to fit the Sirhan Sirhan case.

However, Dr Colin Ross, an expert on dissociative states who's performed years of original archival research into MK-ULTRA luminaries such as Estabrooks, West & Orne, states the following regarding the book about the Hardrup ("murder by hypnosis") case:

"Antisocial or Criminal Acts and Hypnosis: A Case Study" could be used as a training manual for Manchurian Candidate programs.

(p184, Ross, The CIA Doctors, 2006)

Hardrup committed his murders in 1951 and the book was published in 1958.

My own sense is that one of the keys to understanding the theoretical and operational development of Manchurian Candidate programmes lies in the Phoenix Program. And that the patsy thesis, whilst strong, does not rule out the assassin thesis.

See:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=150720

[Nathaniel Heidenheimer]

Lots and Lots on MKULTRA in the book Thy Will Be Done about Nelson Rockefeller. Especially useful for those researching the HEW funding angle of MKULTRA. Here is a start. Between 1952-54? Nelson

merged the Federal Security Agency (and its 4.6 billion budget, ten operating units, and three federal corporations)

into a single new cabinet-level department, Health, Education, and Welfare (he managed to get himself appointed the

first undersecretary of HEW to boot.) This was Nelson's best hope for salvaging some of the CIAA's legacy of education

public health, and vocational rehabilitation programs....HEW became involved in intelligence matters that included not only

the integration of the educational, health, sanitation, and technical assistance programs into overall foreign policy goals,but

HEW serving as the CIA's first conduit for its "mind control" experiment.... the CIA's search for ways of modifying and

controlling human behavior was given cover by both HEW and its subagency, the National Institute of Mental Health.

What's new? The authors emphasis on the extremely hands on efforts of Rocky because at the same time he had replaced

C.D. Jackson as top psych-warfare man for Eisenhower. The authors show how Rocky could use HEW relations with state and

local govs to funnel research cash in ways that would be less likely to attract attention than if it were all centralized.

Personally, this led to rather vulgar thought on my part. What about the periodically irreverent Jim Jones and his (Mendocino?

County), CA welfare contacts. Did the multi-tasking of HEW enable Jim to funnel welfare cash to SF pols and also CIA research?

The broad array of HEW's different areas of responsibility could have been very useful for covert actions that might generate a

bad vibe, as they later did in the mid 1960s, when they finally received some press attention.

NEXT POST: THE GOOD STUFF

[Robert Howard]

Lots and Lots on MKULTRA in the book Thy Will Be Done about Nelson Rockefeller. Especially useful for those researching the HEW funding angle of MKULTRA. Here is a start. Between 1952-54? Nelson

merged the Federal Security Agency (and its 4.6 billion budget, ten operating units, and three federal corporations)

into a single new cabinet-level department, Health, Education, and Welfare (he managed to get himself appointed the

first undersecretary of HEW to boot.) This was Nelson's best hope for salvaging some of the CIAA's legacy of education

public health, and vocational rehabilitation programs....HEW became involved in intelligence matters that included not only

the integration of the educational, health, sanitation, and technical assistance programs into overall foreign policy goals,but

HEW serving as the CIA's first conduit for its "mind control" experiment.... the CIA's search for ways of modifying and

controlling human behavior was given cover by both HEW and its subagency, the National Institute of Mental Health.

What's new? The authors emphasis on the extremely hands on efforts of Rocky because at the same time he had replaced

C.D. Jackson as top psych-warfare man for Eisenhower. The authors show how Rocky could use HEW relations with state and

local govs to funnel research cash in ways that would be less likely to attract attention than if it were all centralized.

Personally, this led to rather vulgar thought on my part. What about the periodically irreverent Jim Jones and his (Mendocino?

County), CA welfare contacts. Did the multi-tasking of HEW enable Jim to funnel welfare cash to SF pols and also CIA research?

The broad array of HEW's different areas of responsibility could have been very useful for covert actions that might generate a

bad vibe, as they later did in the mid 1960s, when they finally received some press attention.

NEXT POST: THE GOOD STUFF

In 1959, there was a conference held in Princeton, New Jersey which is, I believe mentioned in two books. The first being.....

The Use of LSD in Psychotherapy: Transactions [which, was also the Title of the Conference, I believe.]

By Harold Alexander Abramson

Published by Josiah Macy, Jr. Foundation, 1960 [1]

......and the second The Drug Experience: First Person Accounts of Addicts, Writers, Scientists and others, Edited by David Ebin [1961] [2]

The participants of the Conference were the following persons:

Paul H Hoch

Harold A Abramson

Gregory Bateson

Arthur L. Chandler

Sidney Cohen

Johnathan O. Cole

Herman C. B. Denber

Keith S Ditman

Betty G Eisner

Mortimer A Hartman

Mollie P. Hewitt

Abram Hoffer

Cecelia E Jett-Jackson

Solomon Katzenelbogen

Gerald D Klee

Henry L. Lennard

Sidney Malitz

Robert C Murphy, Jr.

Gwendolyn J Neviackas

T T Peck, Jr.

Ronald A. Sandison

Charles Savage

C.H. Van Rhijn

Louis J. "Jolyon" West

John R.B. Whittlesey

Frank Fremont-Smith...

My reasoning for mentioning the conference, is due mainly to the fact that, while there is a plethora of information about LSD, and research associated with MKULTRA and MKNAOMI, outside of academic journals and the, what would you describe it as? more generic types of books written on the subject.

Although there is nothing odd about this, I find it odd that George Estabrooks, who in the 1940's was Chairman of Colgate University's, Dept. of Psychology doesent appear in Ebin's book, or, at least I didn't see it, if he is. [The book has no index]

The two books above represent an area of focus that is, at least peripherally related to the CIA relationship that continued to developed under Sidney Gottleib and Richard Helms, and also appears to have involved, in at least a speculative sense Lee Harvey Oswald, at least there is the documented instance of Lee Oswald inquiring about LSD.

The second book, The Drug Experience: First Person........by David Ebin, is unique in the sense that interspersed throughout the work are passages containing accounts of their experiences, by such luminaries as Jean Cocteau, Allen Ginsberg, Billie Holliday, William Burroughs and others.

As someone who was too young to be a child of the sixties, I nonetheless was fascinated by reading in or around the late 1970's Ken Kesey's The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test....Certain passages in Ebin's book are very much along the same lines.....

For the time being, there is one passage that is worth mentioning..."I am a clinical psychiatrist and became interested in LSD while I was in the Air Force. Many Air Force prisoners-of-war were subjected by their Communist captors to various kinds of stress, sufficient to cause them to sign confessions of germ warfare, in which, in fact, they had not been engaging........When I visited Dr. Abramson in the winter of 1953, I learned that there was a great deal of experimental work going on; I have tried to keep in touch ever since. I have been surprised at developments in the use of LSD as a therapeutic agent, and so perhaps I am here under false pretenses. I have never used LSD in psychotherapy; my interest in it has been primarily in the realm of experimental psychopathology........

The speaker?

Louis J. "Jolyon" West

See page 375, The Drug Experience: First Person Accounts of Addicts, Writers, Scientists and others, Edited by David Ebin - An Evergreen/Black Cat Book

As mentioned earlier regarding Lee Harvey Oswald, one distinction that Dick Russell and I share is the realization, that Jim Garrison, whatever ones opinion is of him, acquired some very compelling leads in his "files."

In this case information pertaining to Edward G Gillin, whom Gillin believed was visited by Lee Harvey Oswald in July or August of 1963, [remembering that Oswald had checked out Brave New World from the N.O. Public Library, among others.]

Dick Russell mentioned this episode on pages 385-386 of the 1993 version of The Man Who Knew Too Much

Gillin was an Assistant D.A. in New Orleans that year and he recalled Oswald inquiring about whether a particular drug was legal or illegal. Gillin, as Russell noted, made mention of Oswald "demonstrating a super-imposed indoctrination in which he had no great self-identification." 3

1. http://books.google.com/books?id=99I5HgAACAAJ&dq

2. http://books.google.com/books?id=di4eHQAACAAJ&dq

3. Mallin interview, Garrison Files & Dick Russell telephone interview of Mallin, cited page 768, The Man Who Knew Too Much - 1993 Carroll & Graf.

Edited October 13, 2008 by Robert Howard

[Robert Howard]

Lots and Lots on MKULTRA in the book Thy Will Be Done about Nelson Rockefeller. Especially useful for those researching the HEW funding angle of MKULTRA. Here is a start. Between 1952-54? Nelson

merged the Federal Security Agency (and its 4.6 billion budget, ten operating units, and three federal corporations)

into a single new cabinet-level department, Health, Education, and Welfare (he managed to get himself appointed the

first undersecretary of HEW to boot.) This was Nelson's best hope for salvaging some of the CIAA's legacy of education

public health, and vocational rehabilitation programs....HEW became involved in intelligence matters that included not only

the integration of the educational, health, sanitation, and technical assistance programs into overall foreign policy goals,but

HEW serving as the CIA's first conduit for its "mind control" experiment.... the CIA's search for ways of modifying and

controlling human behavior was given cover by both HEW and its subagency, the National Institute of Mental Health.

What's new? The authors emphasis on the extremely hands on efforts of Rocky because at the same time he had replaced

C.D. Jackson as top psych-warfare man for Eisenhower. The authors show how Rocky could use HEW relations with state and

local govs to funnel research cash in ways that would be less likely to attract attention than if it were all centralized.

Personally, this led to rather vulgar thought on my part. What about the periodically irreverent Jim Jones and his (Mendocino?

County), CA welfare contacts. Did the multi-tasking of HEW enable Jim to funnel welfare cash to SF pols and also CIA research?

The broad array of HEW's different areas of responsibility could have been very useful for covert actions that might generate a

bad vibe, as they later did in the mid 1960s, when they finally received some press attention.

NEXT POST: THE GOOD STUFF

In 1959, there was a conference held in Princeton, New Jersey which is, I believe mentioned in two books. The first being.....

The Use of LSD in Psychotherapy: Transactions [which, was also the Title of the Conference, I believe.]

By Harold Alexander Abramson

Published by Josiah Macy, Jr. Foundation, 1960 [1]

......and the second The Drug Experience: First Person Accounts of Addicts, Writers, Scientists and others, Edited by David Ebin [1961] [2]

The participants of the Conference were the following persons:

Paul H Hoch

Harold A Abramson

Gregory Bateson

Arthur L. Chandler

Sidney Cohen

Johnathan O. Cole

Herman C. B. Denber

Keith S Ditman

Betty G Eisner

Mortimer A Hartman

Mollie P. Hewitt

Abram Hoffer

Cecelia E Jett-Jackson

Solomon Katzenelbogen

Gerald D Klee

Henry L. Lennard

Sidney Malitz

Robert C Murphy, Jr.

Gwendolyn J Neviackas

T T Peck, Jr.

Ronald A. Sandison

Charles Savage

C.H. Van Rhijn

Louis J. "Jolyon" West

John R.B. Whittlesey

Frank Fremont-Smith...

My reasoning for mentioning the conference, is due mainly to the fact that, while there is a plethora of information about LSD, and research associated with MKULTRA and MKNAOMI, outside of academic journals and the, what would you describe it as? more generic types of books written on the subject.

Although there is nothing odd about this, I find it odd that George Estabrooks, who in the 1940's was Chairman of Colgate University's, Dept. of Psychology doesent appear in Ebin's book, or, at least I didn't see it, if he is. [The book has no index]

The two books above represent an area of focus that is, at least peripherally related to the CIA relationship that continued to developed under Sidney Gottleib and Richard Helms, and also appears to have involved, in at least a speculative sense Lee Harvey Oswald, at least there is the documented instance of Lee Oswald inquiring about LSD.

The second book, The Drug Experience: First Person........by David Ebin, is unique in the sense that interspersed throughout the work are passages containing accounts of their experiences, by such luminaries as Jean Cocteau, Allen Ginsberg, Billie Holliday, William Burroughs and others.

As someone who was too young to be a child of the sixties, I nonetheless was fascinated by reading in or around the late 1970's Ken Kesey's The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test....Certain passages in Ebin's book are very much along the same lines.....

For the time being, there is one passage that is worth mentioning..."I am a clinical psychiatrist and became interested in LSD while I was in the Air Force. Many Air Force prisoners-of-war were subjected by their Communist captors to various kinds of stress, sufficient to cause them to sign confessions of germ warfare, in which, in fact, they had not been engaging........When I visited Dr. Abramson in the winter of 1953, I learned that there was a great deal of experimental work going on; I have tried to keep in touch ever since. I have been surprised at developments in the use of LSD as a therapeutic agent, and so perhaps I am here under false pretenses. I have never used LSD in psychotherapy; my interest in it has been primarily in the realm of experimental psychopathology........

The speaker?

Louis J. "Jolyon" West

See page 375, The Drug Experience: First Person Accounts of Addicts, Writers, Scientists and others, Edited by David Ebin - An Evergreen/Black Cat Book

As mentioned earlier regarding Lee Harvey Oswald, one distinction that Dick Russell and I share is the realization, that Jim Garrison, whatever ones opinion is of him, acquired some very compelling leads in his "files."

In this case information pertaining to Edward G Gillin, whom Gillin believed was visited by Lee Harvey Oswald in July or August of 1963, [remembering that Oswald had checked out Brave New World from the N.O. Public Library, among others.]

Dick Russell mentioned this episode on pages 385-386 of the 1993 version of The Man Who Knew Too Much

Gillin was an Assistant D.A. in New Orleans that year and he recalled Oswald inquiring about whether a particular drug was legal or illegal. Gillin, as Russell noted, made mention of Oswald "demonstrating a super-imposed indoctrination in which he had no great self-identification." 3

1. http://books.google.com/books?id=99I5HgAACAAJ&dq

2. http://books.google.com/books?id=di4eHQAACAAJ&dq

3. Mallin interview, Garrison Files & Dick Russell telephone interview of Mallin, cited page 768, The Man Who Knew Too Much - 1993 Carroll & Graf.

So just what was that "mysterious drug," that Lee Harvey Oswald was inquiring about.....To those familiar with both the pharmaceutical industry and Aldous Huxley, you could probably adduce that the substance was probably "soma."

Continuing......

In Western culture Soma often refers to some form of intoxicating drug. In Aldous Huxley's dystopian novel Brave New World, Soma is a popular dream-inducing drug. It provides an easy escape from the hassles of daily life and is employed by the government as a method of control through pleasure. It is ubiquitous and ordinary among the culture of the novel and everyone is shown to use it at some point, in various situations: sex, relaxation, concentration, confidence. It is seemingly a single-chemical combination of many of today's drugs' effects, giving its users the full hedonistic spectrum depending on dosage.

Soma is the central theme of the poem The Brewing of the Soma by the American Quaker poet, John Whittier (1807-1892) from which the well-known Christian hymn "Dear Lord and Father of Mankind" is derived. Whittier here portrays the drinking of soma as distracting the mind from the proper worship of God.

In the book Junkie, author William S. Burroughs refers to soma as a non-addictive, high-quality form of opium said to exist in ancient India. He hypothesizes that, were such a drug to exist, drug dealers would be quick to seize on the opportunity and cut the drug until it became generic "junk."

See google search "soma + Aldous Huxley."

And if you are really a historical buff, lol you probably know that Aldous Huxley's date of death was also......November 22, 1963......Imagine that!

So now you know regarding the pharmaceutical industry there is a drug today that is not exactly unheard of which is associated with the word soma......Do you know what it is?

[Robert Howard]

Lots and Lots on MKULTRA in the book Thy Will Be Done about Nelson Rockefeller. Especially useful for those researching the HEW funding angle of MKULTRA. Here is a start. Between 1952-54? Nelson

merged the Federal Security Agency (and its 4.6 billion budget, ten operating units, and three federal corporations)

into a single new cabinet-level department, Health, Education, and Welfare (he managed to get himself appointed the

first undersecretary of HEW to boot.) This was Nelson's best hope for salvaging some of the CIAA's legacy of education

public health, and vocational rehabilitation programs....HEW became involved in intelligence matters that included not only

the integration of the educational, health, sanitation, and technical assistance programs into overall foreign policy goals,but

HEW serving as the CIA's first conduit for its "mind control" experiment.... the CIA's search for ways of modifying and

controlling human behavior was given cover by both HEW and its subagency, the National Institute of Mental Health.

What's new? The authors emphasis on the extremely hands on efforts of Rocky because at the same time he had replaced

C.D. Jackson as top psych-warfare man for Eisenhower. The authors show how Rocky could use HEW relations with state and

local govs to funnel research cash in ways that would be less likely to attract attention than if it were all centralized.

Personally, this led to rather vulgar thought on my part. What about the periodically irreverent Jim Jones and his (Mendocino?

County), CA welfare contacts. Did the multi-tasking of HEW enable Jim to funnel welfare cash to SF pols and also CIA research?

The broad array of HEW's different areas of responsibility could have been very useful for covert actions that might generate a

bad vibe, as they later did in the mid 1960s, when they finally received some press attention.

NEXT POST: THE GOOD STUFF

In 1959, there was a conference held in Princeton, New Jersey which is, I believe mentioned in two books. The first being.....

The Use of LSD in Psychotherapy: Transactions [which, was also the Title of the Conference, I believe.]

By Harold Alexander Abramson

Published by Josiah Macy, Jr. Foundation, 1960 [1]

......and the second The Drug Experience: First Person Accounts of Addicts, Writers, Scientists and others, Edited by David Ebin [1961] [2]

The participants of the Conference were the following persons:

Paul H Hoch

Harold A Abramson

Gregory Bateson

Arthur L. Chandler

Sidney Cohen

Johnathan O. Cole

Herman C. B. Denber

Keith S Ditman

Betty G Eisner

Mortimer A Hartman

Mollie P. Hewitt

Abram Hoffer

Cecelia E Jett-Jackson

Solomon Katzenelbogen

Gerald D Klee

Henry L. Lennard

Sidney Malitz

Robert C Murphy, Jr.

Gwendolyn J Neviackas

T T Peck, Jr.

Ronald A. Sandison

Charles Savage

C.H. Van Rhijn

Louis J. "Jolyon" West

John R.B. Whittlesey

Frank Fremont-Smith...

My reasoning for mentioning the conference, is due mainly to the fact that, while there is a plethora of information about LSD, and research associated with MKULTRA and MKNAOMI, outside of academic journals and the, what would you describe it as? more generic types of books written on the subject.

Although there is nothing odd about this, I find it odd that George Estabrooks, who in the 1940's was Chairman of Colgate University's, Dept. of Psychology doesent appear in Ebin's book, or, at least I didn't see it, if he is. [The book has no index]

The two books above represent an area of focus that is, at least peripherally related to the CIA relationship that continued to developed under Sidney Gottleib and Richard Helms, and also appears to have involved, in at least a speculative sense Lee Harvey Oswald, at least there is the documented instance of Lee Oswald inquiring about LSD.

The second book, The Drug Experience: First Person........by David Ebin, is unique in the sense that interspersed throughout the work are passages containing accounts of their experiences, by such luminaries as Jean Cocteau, Allen Ginsberg, Billie Holliday, William Burroughs and others.

As someone who was too young to be a child of the sixties, I nonetheless was fascinated by reading in or around the late 1970's Ken Kesey's The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test....Certain passages in Ebin's book are very much along the same lines.....

For the time being, there is one passage that is worth mentioning..."I am a clinical psychiatrist and became interested in LSD while I was in the Air Force. Many Air Force prisoners-of-war were subjected by their Communist captors to various kinds of stress, sufficient to cause them to sign confessions of germ warfare, in which, in fact, they had not been engaging........When I visited Dr. Abramson in the winter of 1953, I learned that there was a great deal of experimental work going on; I have tried to keep in touch ever since. I have been surprised at developments in the use of LSD as a therapeutic agent, and so perhaps I am here under false pretenses. I have never used LSD in psychotherapy; my interest in it has been primarily in the realm of experimental psychopathology........

The speaker?

Louis J. "Jolyon" West

See page 375, The Drug Experience: First Person Accounts of Addicts, Writers, Scientists and others, Edited by David Ebin - An Evergreen/Black Cat Book

As mentioned earlier regarding Lee Harvey Oswald, one distinction that Dick Russell and I share is the realization, that Jim Garrison, whatever ones opinion is of him, acquired some very compelling leads in his "files."

In this case information pertaining to Edward G Gillin, whom Gillin believed was visited by Lee Harvey Oswald in July or August of 1963, [remembering that Oswald had checked out Brave New World from the N.O. Public Library, among others.]

Dick Russell mentioned this episode on pages 385-386 of the 1993 version of The Man Who Knew Too Much

Gillin was an Assistant D.A. in New Orleans that year and he recalled Oswald inquiring about whether a particular drug was legal or illegal. Gillin, as Russell noted, made mention of Oswald "demonstrating a super-imposed indoctrination in which he had no great self-identification." 3

1. http://books.google.com/books?id=99I5HgAACAAJ&dq

2. http://books.google.com/books?id=di4eHQAACAAJ&dq

3. Mallin interview, Garrison Files & Dick Russell telephone interview of Mallin, cited page 768, The Man Who Knew Too Much - 1993 Carroll & Graf.

So just what was that "mysterious drug," that Lee Harvey Oswald was inquiring about.....To those familiar with both the pharmaceutical industry and Aldous Huxley, you could probably adduce that the substance was probably "soma."

Continuing......

In Western culture Soma often refers to some form of intoxicating drug. In Aldous Huxley's dystopian novel Brave New World, Soma is a popular dream-inducing drug. It provides an easy escape from the hassles of daily life and is employed by the government as a method of control through pleasure. It is ubiquitous and ordinary among the culture of the novel and everyone is shown to use it at some point, in various situations: sex, relaxation, concentration, confidence. It is seemingly a single-chemical combination of many of today's drugs' effects, giving its users the full hedonistic spectrum depending on dosage.

Soma is the central theme of the poem The Brewing of the Soma by the American Quaker poet, John Whittier (1807-1892) from which the well-known Christian hymn "Dear Lord and Father of Mankind" is derived. Whittier here portrays the drinking of soma as distracting the mind from the proper worship of God.

In the book Junkie, author William S. Burroughs refers to soma as a non-addictive, high-quality form of opium said to exist in ancient India. He hypothesizes that, were such a drug to exist, drug dealers would be quick to seize on the opportunity and cut the drug until it became generic "junk."

See google search "soma + Aldous Huxley."

And if you are really a historical buff, lol you probably know that Aldous Huxley's date of death was also......November 22, 1963......Imagine that!

So now you know regarding the pharmaceutical industry there is a drug today that is not exactly unheard of which is associated with the word soma......Do you know what it is?

Answer: carisoprodol [soma] is a fairly well known muscle relaxer.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=c...amp;btnG=Search

I would also like to point out that there is, what I consider to be a very cerebral historical overview and analysis of the background of Dr. Estabrooks and a very plausible explanation behind MKULTRA doctors and the issue of UFO abductions.

Unfortunately, I believe it is a little too deep for some minds.....

At any rate it is entitled.

The Controllers

a new thesis of Alien Abduction

by Martin Cannon

http://www.constitution.org/abus/controll.htm

...........Alien abductors=Terra and the Pirates

P.S.

Sometimes, it is useful to document other Forum threads to buttress arguments in support of a premise, such as mine, in this case.

If there are any scoffers to the suppositions contained in my posts, before ridiculing the information contained, I would suggest that the thread entitled Friendly Eugenics from Philly to Dallas be perused.

The link is

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10085.

I would also point out in my estimation that after the cities of Dallas, New Orleans and Washington D.C. in the JFK saga none are more important as Philadelphia.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Robert Howard

[Jack White]

I noted that PAUL HOCH headed the list of participants at the mind control conference.

What was his role?

Hoch is a well-known UCal researcher who published the JFK newsletter ECHOES OF

CONSPIRACY. For several years that I know of, he and Gary Mack were in frequent

close contact, and Gary furnished me xeroxes of the newsletter. Copies are available

in my papers at Baylor's Penn Jones Library.

Jack

[Robert Howard]

I noted that PAUL HOCH headed the list of participants at the mind control conference.

What was his role?

Hoch is a well-known UCal researcher who published the JFK newsletter ECHOES OF

CONSPIRACY. For several years that I know of, he and Gary Mack were in frequent

close contact, and Gary furnished me xeroxes of the newsletter. Copies are available

in my papers at Baylor's Penn Jones Library.

Jack

Actually Jack, the Paul L Hoch you are referring to is a different person than the Paul H Hoch who was a participant in the aforementioned conference. In addition to the information you supplied, Paul L Hoch did an excellent job of obtaining JFK Assassination documents, as well as being a co-author, along with Russell Stetler and Peter Dale Scott's The Assassinations: Dallas & Beyond.

The Paul H Hoch who participated in the Conference on the Nature and Use of LSD, was the Chairman of the Department of Psychiatry at Columbia University as well as a member of the College of Physicians and Surgeons at New York,, N.Y. 1

1 page 369, The Drug Experience, Edited by David Ebin, Grove Press - Black Cat Ed., - 1965.

Hoch rarely appears in this book, he was however, apparently a significant figure in the field of psychiatry and the use of LSD and other hallucinogenic drugs in relation to, various models of research.

See

http://www.namebase.org/cgi-bin/nb01?Na=Hoch%2C+Paul+H

* Hunt,L. Secret Agenda. 1991 (170)

* Lee,M. Shlain,B. Acid Dreams. 1985 (20-1, 38, 69-70)

* Marks,J. The Search for the Manchurian Candidate. 1980 (67)

* Mother Jones 1982-05 (16)

* Spotlight Newspaper 1996-04-29 (11)

Unfortunately, I do not have any of the books cited by namebase on Dr. Paul H. Hoch, but I do know that he authored, the book, The Complete Psychiatrist, the Achievements of Paul H. Hoch, M.D.:

By Paul H. Hoch, Nolan Don Carpentier Lewis, Margaret O. Strahl

Published by State University of New York, 1968

It is a collection of Hoch's speeches, contributions, and official reports accompanied by papers written in his honor.

Edited November 22, 2008 by Robert Howard

[William Kelly]

I noted that PAUL HOCH headed the list of participants at the mind control conference.

What was his role?

Hoch is a well-known UCal researcher who published the JFK newsletter ECHOES OF

CONSPIRACY. For several years that I know of, he and Gary Mack were in frequent

close contact, and Gary furnished me xeroxes of the newsletter. Copies are available

in my papers at Baylor's Penn Jones Library.

Jack

Actually Jack, the Paul L Hoch you are referring to is a different person than the Paul H Hoch who was a participant in the aforementioned conference. In addition to the information you supplied, Paul L Hoch did an excellent job of obtaining JFK Assassination documents, as well as being a co-author, along with Russell Stetler and Peter Dale Scott's The Assassinations: Dallas & Beyond.

The Paul H Hoch who participated in the Conference on the Nature and Use of LSD, was the Chairman of the Department of Psychiatry at Columbia University as well as a member of the College of Physicians and Surgeons at New York,, N.Y. 1

1 page 369, The Drug Experience, Edited by David Ebin, Grove Press - Black Cat Ed., - 1965.

Hoch rarely appears in this book, he was however, apparently a significant figure in the field of psychiatry and the use of LSD and other hallucinogenic drugs in relation to, various models of research.

See

http://www.namebase.org/cgi-bin/nb01?Na=Hoch%2C+Paul+H

* Hunt,L. Secret Agenda. 1991 (170)

* Lee,M. Shlain,B. Acid Dreams. 1985 (20-1, 38, 69-70)

* Marks,J. The Search for the Manchurian Candidate. 1980 (67)

* Mother Jones 1982-05 (16)

* Spotlight Newspaper 1996-04-29 (11)

Unfortunately, I do not have any of the books cited by namebase on Dr. Paul H. Hoch, but I do know that he authored, the book, The Complete Psychiatrist, the Achievements of Paul H. Hoch, M.D.:

By Paul H. Hoch, Nolan Don Carpentier Lewis, Margaret O. Strahl

Published by State University of New York, 1968

It is a collection of Hoch's speeches, contributions, and official reports accompanied by papers written in his honor.

Robert,

Many thanks for pointing this out.

I think this may also be the answer to questions posed in the thread on C. D. Thompson, one being the Life Mag/Psych War expert and the other being a UFOlogist as mentioned by Dixie.

Two people with the same name is the bane of all researchers, for which there are many examples.

BK

[Jack White]

Doppelgangers again!

Jack