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James Richards

Silencers, suppressors and their effect?

22 posts in this topic

Given some of the discussion lately regarding shot origin and how many reports witnesses heard, I though it was appropriate to post the following image and hopefully we can get Ryan Crowe to give us an expert's opinion on what exactly a rig like this will do.

Specifically, does this effect the rifle's performance, how is the sound controlled and what kind of volume levels are produced.

The man in the photo is Jose 'Yayo' Varona

James

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That's a nasty-looking weapon, James!

Do you know who manufactured the silencer and what type of weapon it is on?

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That's a nasty-looking weapon, James!

Do you know who manufactured the silencer and what type of weapon it is on?

Hi Tim,

Rather than embarrassing myself with a layman's guess, hopefully Ryan can give us some details.

James

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Hi James,

I will do my best on 2hrs of sleep B)

The weapon in the picture looks to be a AK-47, with folding stock and silencer.The AK-47 is NOT thee most accurate rifle in the world, just the most reliable IMHO. How the silencer will effect its performance would be in the accuracy dept. Again this isnt a long range rifle and would be used to take out enemy personel on a trail etc. where silence was very important and a silenced pistol wouldnt be enough fire power to drop multiple targets..

There are four noise levels while firing a weapon..

One is the pressure wave from rapidly expanding propellant gases, second would be the sonic crack of the bullet, third would be the cycle action of the weapon, and fouth would be the flight of the bullet.

The only noise out of the 4 that a silencer can control is the pressure wave, the silencer reduces noise by two parts, first things it does is slows the release through expansion and turbulance of the high pressure gases that are ears hear as a loud "BANG" or "Boom"..

The second part is when some of the kinetic energy of the noise impulse is converted into heat..

Now something that is very important when talking silencers on HIGH powerd rifles is that the only way to eliminate the "sonic crack" of a high velocity rifle round is by the use of "sub sonic" ammo. These can either be bought for some calibers or hand loaded to download the velocity below the speed of sound.

I hope this answers your question James on the silencer? If there is any incorrect spelling please forgive me as ive been up most of the night.

Also if a silencer or silencer's were used in DP that horrible day, the only thing people would have heard is bullets whizzing by them, as im sure the shooters would use sub sonic rounds to eliminate the "sonic crack"...

Im not up to par on DB noise, but have heard the difference when using high velocity(or super sonic) and sub sonic rounds with a silencer, the super sonic sounds like a .22 and the sub sonic is as loud as a mouse fart, all I could hear was the bolt operating...spooky stuff. The weapon used was a Springfield M1A1 .308

I hope I was of some help, And just hearing the news I want to give my thoughts and prayers to the victims and families in London.....

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Ryan, Thank you from all the "Brits" you are a gentleman. sorry for being off topic.

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Thanks, Ryan. As always, your information is very helpful. Have you ever heard of any of the Cuban exiles being armed with AK-47's? This seems like a new development for me.

I would also like to extend my thoughts and prayers to our friends in England.

James

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Thanks, Ryan. As always, your information is very helpful. Have you ever heard of any of the Cuban exiles being armed with AK-47's? This seems like a new development for me.

I would also like to extend my thoughts and prayers to our friends in England.

James

I was thinking the same thing last night when I first saw the picture but like James said last night I did not want to guess at it. Anti Castro soldiers using soviet weapons that AK-47 must be as good as they say it is! Strange indeed.

I also am praying for the safety of our friends in England. I hope all is as well as it can be in a time like this. Justin

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Hi James,

I would not doubt Cuban Exiles were using AK-47's during the mid to late 60's, after China got ahold of the blue prints those things were being stamped out a dime a dozen..It is thee most copied weapon ever produced, I cant think of a third world country that doesnt use the AK-47 or its brother the AK-74..Just think of the siezed weapons the U.S Govt had taken from Vietnam, nothing like free guns to arm a group..

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James, is it possible that certain shots were fired without a silencer to distract potential witnesess,whilst similtaneously silenced rounds from at least two shooters did the actual wounding, Eg one shooter in TSBD three shots all blancs, Two shooters Dal Tex using silenced rounds, two shooters Knoll area likewise.

Is this a possible scenario? Ryan, Al? All pure speculation of course.

Edited by Stephen Turner

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James, is it possible that certain shots were fired without a silencer to distract potential witnesess,whilst similtaneously silenced rounds from at least two shooters did the actual wounding, Eg one shooter in TSBD three shots all blancs, Two shooters Dal Tex using silenced rounds, two shooters Knoll area likewise.

Is this a possible scenario? Ryan, Al? All pure speculation of course.

Stephen, I believe that is exactly what happened. I believe that the first shot was fired from the TSBD, and was subsonic. This hit Kennedy in the back. A second later a burst of silenced gunfire from the Dal-Tex hit Kennedy near the EOP, went down his neck and hit Connally. It's possible as well that a second round from this burst hit Connally. Then, a non-silenced, non-subsonic round fired from the TSBD hit Kennedy atop his head and killed him. A second later a loud noise erupted from behind the arcade, quite possibly a cherry bomb or m-80.

This created mass confusion and allowed the shooters to get away.

From what I've read on silencers they effectively remove 12-20 db from the sound of the rifle. This would reduce the sound of a rifle fired from the upper floors of the Dal-tex to the equivalent of a loud shout, which would be lost amidst the sounds of the motorcade to all but a few. Not coincidentally, there is an area right under the Dal-Tex where almost half of the witnesses heard four shots. This is significant in light of the fact that not one of the 40 or so witnesses a block away at Houston and Main, who were further from the original shots and much more likely to be confused by echoes, reported four shots. It's also significant, and perhaps telling, that, while dozens of witnesses from the courts building and TSBD were questioned, not one witness standing inside or in front of the Dal-Tex building was questioned by the WC, or even by the DPD, near as I can figure. It's almost as if someone said "that's the building where that Braden character was arrested, let's not bother to ask what anyone from that building saw or heard." It's like they didn't want to know.

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James, is it possible that certain shots were fired without a silencer to distract potential witnesess,whilst similtaneously silenced rounds from at least two shooters did the actual wounding, Eg one shooter in TSBD three shots all blancs, Two shooters Dal Tex using silenced rounds, two shooters Knoll area likewise.

Is this a possible scenario? Ryan, Al? All pure speculation of course.

Hi Stephen,

I am far from an expert and like Pat, I do agree that a combination of silenced and non silenced shots were fired in Dealey Plaza. The varying effects would certainly be confusing for those close to the action.

I do believe that whether the gunfire was masked or not, all bullets were meant to hit JFK.

James

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[...] I believe that the first shot was fired from the TSBD, and was subsonic. This hit Kennedy in the back. A second later a burst of silenced gunfire from the Dal-Tex hit Kennedy near the EOP, went down his neck and hit Connally. It's possible as well that a second round from this burst hit Connally. Then, a non-silenced, non-subsonic round fired from the TSBD hit Kennedy atop his head and killed him. A second later a loud noise erupted from behind the arcade, quite possibly a cherry bomb or m-80.

This created mass confusion and allowed the shooters to get away. [...]

_________________________

Hi Pat,

Sorry if this is a stupid question but what does "EOP" stand for?

Thanks

--Thomas

_______________________

Edited by Thomas Graves

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[...] I believe that the first shot was fired from the TSBD, and was subsonic. This hit Kennedy in the back. A second later a burst of silenced gunfire from the Dal-Tex hit Kennedy near the EOP, went down his neck and hit Connally. It's possible as well that a second round from this burst hit Connally. Then, a non-silenced, non-subsonic round fired from the TSBD hit Kennedy atop his head and killed him. A second later a loud noise erupted from behind the arcade, quite possibly a cherry bomb or m-80.

This created mass confusion and allowed the shooters to get away. [...]

_________________________

Hi Pat,

Sorry if this is a stupid question but what does "EOP" stand for?

Thanks

--Thomas

External Occipital Protuberance---that part in the back of your head that kinda sticks out.

You're way back there reading---fun,huh?

Kathy

_______________________

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[...] I believe that the first shot was fired from the TSBD, and was subsonic. This hit Kennedy in the back. A second later a burst of silenced gunfire from the Dal-Tex hit Kennedy near the EOP, went down his neck and hit Connally. It's possible as well that a second round from this burst hit Connally. Then, a non-silenced, non-subsonic round fired from the TSBD hit Kennedy atop his head and killed him. A second later a loud noise erupted from behind the arcade, quite possibly a cherry bomb or m-80.

This created mass confusion and allowed the shooters to get away. [...]

_________________________

Hi Pat,

Sorry if this is a stupid question but what does "EOP" stand for?

Thanks

--Thomas

External Occipital Protuberance---that part in the back of your head that kinda sticks out.

You're way back there reading---fun,huh?

Kathy

_______________________

Thanks Kathy!

_______________________

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The EOP is a small bump in the middle of the back of the head. It is just below the far back of the head, when the head is held erect; it usually resides around the level of the middle of the ear in this position. It is slightly above the hairline on most men. The small entrance wound described at autopsy was an inch to the right of this bump, and slightly above. Later, some doctors decided, after looking at the photos, that the wound was really 4 inches above this location, and in a different bone. The autopsy doctors swore by the location they described at autopsy. Chaos ensued. Dweebs like myself got wind of this chaos and started writing about it, hoping to exploit this controversy in order to re-open the case.

Never mind, says Bugliosi, the "experts" aren't mistaken, the "experts" aren't lying; of course the autopsy doctors made a mistake; they were, after all in a hurry. And of course they lied about it later to protect their reputations. But that doesn't mean they were incompetent, or liars, no, we can't have that or we'd have a legitimate case for exhumation, so, no, they weren't incompetent, or liars. Major media sources swallow this foot-wide sleeping pill in one gulp, in the name of giving a man whose murder has been witnessed millions of times, and whose murder remains unsolved, some measure of sleep. It is they who are the happy recipients of this sleep, IMO.

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