• Announcements

    • Evan Burton

      OPEN REGISTRATION BY EMAIL ONLY !!! PLEASE CLICK ON THIS TITLE FOR INFORMATION REQUIRED FOR REGISTRATION!:   06/03/2017

      We have 5 requirements for registration: 1.Sign up with your real name. (This will be your Username) 2.A valid email address 3.Your agreement to the Terms of Use, seen here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21403. 4. Your photo for use as an avatar  5.. A brief biography. We will post these for you, and send you your password. We cannot approve membership until we receive these. If you are interested, please send an email to: edforumbusiness@outlook.com We look forward to having you as a part of the Forum! Sincerely, The Education Forum Team
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
John Simkin

Patrick Hoy

18 posts in this topic

Bill,

You take the same narrow approach, in considering the significance and role of IB Hale's employer, Gen Dyn, in this post:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=164206

WC assistant counsel Albert E. Jenner Jr., arguably assigned the most central role in finding or debunking the possibility of a conspiracy in either or both the JFK and Oswald murders, was the personal attorney of largest Gen Dyn stockholder and chair of it's executive committee, and in 1963 was representing the Gen Dyn's Material Service Div. in the appeal of the Stern v. Material Service lawsuit. From 1959, the son of that Gen Dyn principle stockholder was a lawyer at Jenner's firm, and later a partner.

Since this is the thread titled, "Patrick Hoy", and Hoy was the suspicious, due to weak job qualifications and strong Chicago mob ties, executive hire by Gen Dyn's Henry Crown, I do not think I am out of line in pressing you to explain the narrowness of the lines you are drawing related to who you suspect and why.

I have a theory that compartmentalization is at the core of this being "unsolved" for 45 years. Hoy, for example, we know for certain, had the opportunity to speak in person to Irv Kupcinet in the Pump Room at the Ambassador East Hotel in Chicago, every night from the late 1940's until 1960 when Crown hired Hoy. Kupcinet knew "Sparky" Ruby and had as his long time co-columnists, Ruby friends since childhood, Ira and Jimmy Colitz. Kupcinet was practically the best friend of top mob lawyer, Sid Korshak, also close to Patrick Hoy. Kupcinet was publicly silenced, as far as mentioning Ruby ever again, after he associated Ruby, on Nov., 25. 1963 with Paul Dorfman. Kupcinet's daughter Karyn was found suspiciously dead in LA, days later. Korshak had to ID her body at the morgue on behalf of Kupcinet.

It isn't difficult to imagine that Hoy, the man said to have convinced both Crown, and Crown's real estate and hotel development partner, Conrad Hilton, (close friend of Earl Warren's daughter and friend of Warren) to put Sid Korshak on permanent retainer, could have had a role in putting Jack Ruby in the basement of the Dallas PD on sunday morning. Hoy knew who to call to recruit and direct Ruby to eliminate Oswald, but, from what we know, his potential as a conspiracy participant in both murders, is limited to the above description.

Compare these "limits" to what we know of Henry Crown. In 1962, he had a personal fortune above $1 billion. It is not an exaggeration to say that half of this fortune hung in the balance because of developing uncertainty of the $5.8 billion TFX contract, already awarded to Gen Dyn. Drew Peason refers several times, from 1962 on, of Crown's personal lobbying efforts on Capital Hill, in gaining and keeping TFX.

Aside from Gen Dyn, Crown's closest, highest dollar amount, and most important business partner is Earl Warren's friend, Conrad Hilton. WC commissioner John McCloy, during the first WC executive session, steamrolls over Warren's WC suggested chief counsel, and McCloy sponsored J. Lee Rankin gets the job. The next act is Warren's praise filled sponsorship of Crown's own attorney and employer of Crown's son as WC assistant counsel, Albert E. Jenner Jr.

Gen Dyn's Max Clark, IB Hale, and Patrick Hoy; they all work for Crown. Any info picked up by bugging Judith Campbell's phone that works to influence the Kennedy brothers not to go further in the TFX matter than firing Navy Secretary Fred Korth, benefits Crown first, and perhaps former Texas senator and US VP LBJ's state, Texas, and therefore, LBJ's prestige, second. Events that end the Senate's McClellan investigation of LBJ's assistant, Bobby Baker and allegations of TFX contract award related, $100,000 cash bribe paid to LBJ, benefit Henry Crown and LBJ equally.

Albert Jenner, and, by default, Earl Warren and FBI's Hoover, work for Crown.

Crown and LBJ have the most "cui bono" "hang out", in the assassination of JFK and thus in the murder silencing Oswald. The dissatisfaction with JFk represented most prominently on the WC by McCloy, Dulles, and McCone, manifests itself in the cooperation and ease in putting together everything that made the assassination happen, from determining where and when, putting together, positioning, and extracting the triggermen, and staging/manning the motorcade route, timing, components, and security.

Far from upsetting the establishment status quo, the assassination of JFK can be seen to have maintained it, much more so than the establishment's estimation of the impact on that status quo if JFK had been permitted by it, to continue in office. Everything that happened after November 22, can be attributed to the goal that required the elimination of JFk and his "patsy" assassin. No one "talked", because no one "talked" or was listened to, about the background that got the establisment where it found itself..... Hoover set up as dictator of the federal police force, the mob and politicians partnered to run Chicago and many of the rest of the country's urban areas, the mob infiltration and control of labor unions, the christo-fascist-corporatist control of MIC, Intelligence, and foreign policy apparatus, and all, by extension both branches of the federal congress, the supreme court, and the news and entertainment media businesses.

Fast forward to today: (Effective propaganda prevents messy "tweaks", like assassination of a president. Most of the time, propaganda works to the satisfaction of the establishment, all by itself, and to their credit, they've had a remarkable recent run....Reagan and Bush, father and son. )

P-R-O-P-A-G-A-N-D-A=

The very best men: four who dared : the early years of the CIA‎

by Evan Thomas - History - 1996

The Wise Men: Six Friends and the World They Made‎ -

by Walter Isaacson, Evan Thomas - Biography & Autobiography - 1997

Robert Kennedy: His Life‎ -

by Evan Thomas

http://www.newsweek.com/id/191393

By Evan Thomas | NEWSWEEK

Published Mar 28, 2009

......If you are of the establishment persuasion (and I am), reading Krugman makes you uneasy.....By definition, establishments believe in propping up the existing order. Members of the ruling class have a vested interest in keeping things pretty much the way they are. Safeguarding the status quo, protecting traditional institutions, can be healthy and useful, stabilizing and reassuring. But sometimes, beneath the pleasant murmur and tinkle of cocktails, the old guard cannot hear the sound of ice cracking....

Edited by Tom Scully

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"I have a theory that compartmentalization is at the core of this being "unsolved" for 45 years. Hoy, for example, we know for certain, had the opportunity to speak in person to Irv Kupcinet in the Pump Room at the Ambassador East Hotel in Chicago, every night from the late 1940's until 1960 when Crown hired Hoy. Kupcinet knew "Sparky" Ruby and had as his long time co-columnists, Ruby friends since childhood, Ira and Jimmy Colitz. Kupcinet was practically the best friend of top mob lawyer, Sid Korshak, also close to Patrick Hoy. Kupcinet was publicly silenced, as far as mentioning Ruby ever again, after he associated Ruby, on Nov., 25. 1963 with Paul Dorfman. Kupcinet's daughter Karyn was found suspiciously dead in LA, days later. Korshak had to ID her body at the morgue on behalf of Kupcinet.

Since this thread has much to say about the Kupcinets, I would like to add that I spoke on the phone with Cyril Wecht about 3 weeks ago. I sent him Karyn's autopsy report, copies of clippings regarding her coroner, Dr. Henry Wade. He was found to have erroneously concluded in several female autopsies that these women had died from strangulation. One woman was exhumed and there was no such strangulation.

So Karyn's autopsy was compromised. Dr. Wecht couldn't go by it. I sent him a short letter telling him of Karyn's drug use and the basic circumstances of how she was found. He said he couldn't call it. Whether it was murder, suicide or an OD, he could not ascertain. I had asked him if he could look at autopsy photos of her neck, where there supposedly was so much damage, and rule out murder. But Dr. Wecht said he couldn't call it, so I didn't nag him.

Sidney Korshack ID'd Karyn's body, as Irv couldn't do it. She was in a state of advanced decomposition. Strangely enough, Karyn's brother, Jerry, said on True Hollywood Story that his father identified the body and that it was very hard on him.

????

Kathy C

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you read this post about Tom Clark,

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...mp;#entry180140

...it seems that it would be a challenge to draw a conclusiion that J. Edgar Hoover, Tom Clark and Earl Warren did not know what Henry Crown and Patrick Hoy were about.

Hoy was a close friend of Sidney Korshak who Hoy linked up on permanent retairner, with Crown and Conrad Hilton. Korshak has been described as both bribing and blackmailing Kefauver in 1951 to protect Crown, Hilton, and their Chicago mob associates. Roz Gilpatric negotiated the "take over" of Crown's Material Service Corp. by General Dynamics, and Gilpatric testified that he knew that the shares of preferred Gen Dyn stock granted to Crown to pay for the acquisition would give Crown 20 percent of Gen Dyn and 1/5 of the directors. The followiing year, in 1960, Crown hired Hoy away from Ernest Byfield Jr. after Hoy had worked for the Byfield's for more than 15 years, rising to president of their hotel group. Ernest Byfield Jr. went into a partnership with Hoy's nephew, in 1957, to control and manage the Lincoln Park West Hiotel in Chicago.

Next to the Byfield/Hoy Sherman Hotel and Sherman corporate offices, was the the Clovitz brothers' Clover Bar, frequented by Jack Ruby. Irv Kupcinet, closer to Sidney Korshak even than Hoy, and newspaper column partners with the Clovitz brothers, spent every evening with his wife Essie, in Byfield and Hoy's Pump Room restaurant.

The questions that arise are, with Hoover, Clark, and Warren all knowing that Crown and Hilton are at the top echelon of the Chicago mob, could Division 5 of the FBI, along with the Department of Industrial Security based in Dayton, OH, possibly approve the merger of Crown's company and Gen Dyn, a large defense contractor?

Even more curiously, aside from the fact that the Secret Service Chief, Urbanus Baumann, claimed that there was no organized crime syndicate, how could the above named officials, knowing what they knew, permit the JFK family in November, 1960, to lease and reside in the Virginia estate of Ernest Byfield Jr.'s mother, until spring of 1963?

Along with all of the other oddities. conflicts, and curiousities, how did Robert S. McNamara end up marrying Byfield's widowed, second wife?

Tom Clark and Hoover knew since James Ragen talked in 1946 that Crown and Hilton "ran the syndicate in Chicago", yet Clark hires Crown's son, ten years later, as one of his only two annual term law clerks.

John Crown then goes to work for the firm of Crown's personal attorney, and Clark comes forward to approve this lawyer to be senior assistant investigaitve counsel on the WC. Warren allows a close personal friendship with Hilton, and looks the other way while his own daughter, 30 years younger than Hilton, serves as Hilton's social escort and travel partner for more than two yeats.

The same mobsters paroled by Clark and associated with Crown and Hilton, take over Ragen's race wire after killing him when Tom Clark withdraws government protection from this important material withness. With Crown's Arizona land investment and his affiliation with Del Webb, they move in to Phoenix and Las Vegas, build the Flamingo casino, kill Siegel and Greenbaum, and link up with Barry Goldwater and his bnother, Robert.

They also forge close ties with Kemper Marley, the Phoenix organized crime king pin who makes John McCain's future father-in-law the multi-millionaire who bankrolls McCain's earliest political campaigns.

Willie Bioff is given a new name and discovered to be living near and associating with this Phoenix group.

This syndicate also seems to own current US senate majority leader, Harry Reid, for many years.

Sidney Korshak and his Hollywood associates, along with Crown's and Ragen's Chicago mob associates, the billionaire Annenberg faimly, were intimates of Ronald Reagan.

Crown's other son, with a net worth above $5 billion and still with an 8 percent family stake in General Dynamics, becomes Obama's earliest deep pockets presidential campaign backer, a few years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0