• Announcements

    • Evan Burton

      OPEN REGISTRATION BY EMAIL ONLY !!! DETAILS HERE:

      We are opening registration!! If you are interested, please send an email to: edforumbusiness@outlook.com We require you use your real name, a valid email address, and your agreement to the Terms of Use, seen here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21403. Additionally, you will have to send us your photo for use as an avatar and submit a brief biography. We will post these for you, and send you your password. We cannot approve membership until we receive these. We look forward to having you as a part of the Forum! Sincerely, The Education Forum Team
Wim Dankbaar

Backyard Photos, invitation for Jack White.

82 posts in this topic

Invitation to Jack White and/or Bill Miller to show us why the Backyard Photos are fakes, like Oswald said.

To whomever believes they are fakes, it must cast a strange shadow over Professor Epstein and Michael Paine, who both mention the existence of these photographs MONTHS before the assassination.

Wim

http://edwardjayepstein.com/diary/dem.htm

But it then became apparent to him that he had become a much closer confidant of Oswald than he realized. In early April, Marina gave him a curious memento from Oswald. It was an inscribed photograph showing Oswald dressed in black, holding, in one hand, the radical newspaper The Militant and, in the other, the sniper's rifle with the telescopic sight-- that he had shown De Mohrenschildt the week before. The photograph was signed "For George, Lee Harvey Oswald" and dated April 5th, 1963. Marina had derisively scribbled in Russian "Hunter of Fascists. Ha. Ha." That "Ha Ha" became less a joke to De Mohrenschildt on April 10th when De Mohrenschildt heard on the radio that a sniper had fired a shot at General Walker. Only a few weeks before, in the company of three young geologists, he recalled that he had heard Oswald single out Walker as a "fascist" that should be dealt with, and, when one the geologists egged him by talking of an assassination plot against Hitler, Oswald answered that Hitler should have been shot before he ever achieved power. He thus had a "pretty good suspicion who had taken the potshot" at Walker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bump, I know Jack White has passed. I am searching the forum for the Photo Analysis expert opinions on the backyard photos.

Related thread: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/22303-more-on-the-byp/

Related thread: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/23028-how-did-they-get-roscoe-white-to-lean-like-that-and-not-fall-over/&

Related thread: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/706-backyard-photographs/

 

Cheers, Mike

Edited by Michael Clark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me Jack White is a mystery.  I don’t understand some of the things he said about various topics.  I don’t understand what he was doing with the Altgens photos or why late in life he revealed information about Dick Bothun. 

He was dead set that the Zapruder film was a fraud and offered many explanation why that was so.

In the Backyard Photos, if my memory serves me, he gave 15 or so explanations why the BYP were false.  The strange thing is he allowed himself and Robert Groden to be beat up at the HSCA hearings when discussing the BYP.

In my opinion Jack White hints at but does not fully explain the most devastating aspects of the BYP.  As I said he hints at the most fraudulent concept in the BYP but does not state it fully.  In other discussions of other photos he comes right out and bluntly and forcefully states why that photo is false using the same concept he should have used in describing the BYP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

Bump, I know Jack White has passed. I am searching the forum for the Photo Analysis expert opinions on the backyard photos.

Cheers, Mike

Hey there Michael...

I've always felt that the photo of Det Brown and the famous cutout of Oswald prove the same thing.  How would the DPD or anyone else know of the 133-C pose when that photo was not even known about until 1976?  Furthermore, when one tries to replace Oswald into the image, standing the same way, the background doesn't work.

BYP with stand in and Det Brown in 133-c pose Nov 29th.jpg

You'll notice that the step on the stairs fits (upper left of Ossie image) but everything else is off kilter.

As a back-up to this I quote Marina who was forced into remembering taking 2 photos, let alone having taken a third... and she recalls putting the camera to her face to see thru the viewfinder and snap a photo - as she testifies: This is the first time taking photos with a camera...  

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the day that you took the picture of him with the rifle and the pistol?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think that that was towards the end of February, possibly the beginning of March. I can't say exactly. Because I didn't attach any significance to it at the time. That was the only time I took any pictures.
I don't know how to take pictures. He gave me a camera and asked me someone should ask me how to photograph, I don't know.

Mrs. OSWALD. Now I paid attention to it. A specialist would see it immediately, of course. But at that time I did not pay any attention at all. I saw just Lee. These details are of great significance for everybody, but for me at that time it didn't mean anything. At the time' that I was questioned, I had even forgotten that I had taken two photographs. I thought there was only one. I thought that there were two identical pictures, but they turned out to be two different poses.

 

My POV is that she'd have to remember one of the most difficult cameras to work and get a clear, well-framed photo.  This is what Marina would see taking just one of these photos, yet she supposedly took 3 and doesn't remember this camera's peculiar operation:

Q. What did he tell you to do with the camera as far as taking the pictures? 
A. He just told me which button to push and I did. 
Q. Did you hold it up to your eye and look through the viewer to take the picture? 
A. Yes. 
Q. And after you took the picture what did you do after you took the first picture? 
A. I went into the house and did things I had to attend to. 
Q. How many pictures did you take? 
A. I think I took two. 
Q. When you took the first picture you held it up to your eye? 
A. Yes; that is what I recall. 

 

Viewfinder image for Imperial reflex camera with inverted BYP - what Marina would have seen.jpg

 

There are more reasons of course... but I think this is a realistic place to start

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks David, After browsing the forum it seems that most people believe they are faked, by a heathy margin. The pictures are quite valuable in adding evidence to the very thin claim that LHO even owned a rifle. It's hard to believe that Marina would lie so much and maintain the fiction for so long; but it just appears, more and more, that that is indeed the case.

Thanks again David, for your reply,

 

Cheers,

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did Marina actually testify to writing "Hunter Of Fascists Ha Ha Ha" on the photo mentioned?

I just can't figure her trying to be funny, even derisively, about such talk from her husband.

And who wouldn't be asking their husband why he would want her to take extremely provocative pictures of him with two guns and those Russian newspapers?

Maybe she did.  Wonder what he told her in response.

Oswald told Will Fritz ( when he was claiming the BYP were faked ) that he ( Oswald ) knew a lot about photography.  

Was he exaggerating his level of knowledge and skills in this area?

Or does anyone know whether Oswald was into photography ( even recreational ) in the military or during his stay in Russia?

Or did Oswald think he learned enough at S and Jaggers to claim this expertise?

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

Thanks David, After browsing the forum it seems that most people believe they are faked, by a heathy margin. The pictures are quite valuable in adding evidence to the very thin claim that LHO even owned a rifle. It's hard to believe that Marina would lie so much and maintain the fiction for so long; but it just appears, more and more, that that is indeed the case.

Thanks again David, for your reply,

Cheers,

Mike

Mike,

I see no lying by Marina Oswald in all of that. 

To keep things in context -- Marina Oswald told the FBI and the Warren Commission multiple times -- I only took one photograph.  Period.  I clearly remember I snapped the button only one time.   Once.  I remember that clearly.

Yet the FBI and the WC attorneys pushed back hard.   "NO WAY!  We have these TWO photographs here!  Look at them!  LOOK AT THEM!   YOU took both of these!  Are you lying to us?  Stop lying!  Tell us the TRUTH!   How can you not remember!   We have TWO photographs here!  You had to take BOTH!   REMEMBER??  REMEMBER???  REMEMBER!?!?!?!?!??"

Eventually, they wore Marina down, so that she couldn't resist anymore.  "I guess I just don't know cameras very well."  It looks like I did take TWO photographs.  I just don't remember."

The REAL TRUTH (IMHO) is that Marina Oswald only took one photograph, just as her memory told her. 

Lee did not own any black outfit as he wore for her that day.  The REAL TRUTH is that Lee Oswald then took that SINGLE photograph which Marina took, and used the FACE of that photograph to make FOUR DIFFERENT POSES with Roscoe White, and then at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, made some sophisticated Fakes of Four different BYP's.

Why?   For plausible deniability, later.

It's amusing that the WC forced Marina Oswald to "confess" that she took two BYP's, but they were dumbfounded years later to learn that Roscoe White's wife had a completely different pose, and there was also a fourth pose (IIRC) later found.

What a joke.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

 

Edited by Paul Trejo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Did Marina actually testify to writing "Hunter Of Fascists Ha Ha Ha" on the photo mentioned?

I just can't figure her trying to be funny, even derisively, about such talk from her husband.

And who wouldn't be asking their husband why he would want her to take extremely provocative pictures of him with two guns and those Russian newspapers?

Maybe she did.  Wonder what he told her in response.

Oswald told Will Fritz ( when he was claiming the BYP were faked ) that he ( Oswald ) knew a lot about photography.  

Was he exaggerating his level of knowledge and skills in this area?

Or does anyone know whether Oswald was into photography ( even recreational ) in the military or during his stay in Russia?

Or did Oswald think he learned enough at S and Jaggers to claim this expertise?

Joe,

Marina didn't write "Hunter of fascists, ha ha!" on the back of any BYP.  

She never said she did.  Also, it wasn't her handwriting.

The handwriting, IMHO, was that of George De Mohrenschildt himself.

Marina said she didn't want to take the photo -- but LHO forcefully insisted.

As for LHO's skill in photography -- it wasn't expert -- he was a trainee at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, as attested to all who worked with him there.  But he was bright.  And he did also create his Alek J. Hidell Fake ID there.  (LHO always resented seeing less intelligent people get educations when he was very bright and well-read yet had to fend for himself in America.)

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Joe,

Marina didn't write "Hunter of fascists, ha ha!" on the back of any BYP.  

She never said she did.  Also, it wasn't her handwriting.

The handwriting, IMHO, was that of George De Mohrenschildt himself.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Paul, not to be picky, but is it your thought that George wrote it, or is it your thought that the handwriting looks like George's and so you think he wrote it? Have you seen and compared the handwriting, or has that comparison, analysis and conclusion been made by someone else and you happen to agree with it? Again, not to split hairs but it would be an interesting distinction that would be valuable. 

It has been my thinking that some spook planted it in his stuff while he was away.

Cheers, Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Paul, not to be picky, but is it your thought that George wrote it, or is it your thought that the handwriting looks like George's and so you think he wrote it? Have you seen and compared the handwriting, or has that comparison, analysis and conclusion been made by someone else and you happen to agree with it? Again, not to split hairs but it would be an interesting distinction that would be valuable. 

It has been my thinking that some spook planted it in his stuff while he was away.

Cheers, Mike

Mike,

It is my thought that the handwriting looks like George's.  It could also be Jeanne's handwriting.

I have seen and compared the handwriting, so I think it's George's.   On that same photograph, there is not only that handwriting, but there is also a "copyright" notice handwritten by George himself, and notice the similarity of the letters.  I'm pretty sure that George was the writer.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

Did Marina actually testify to writing "Hunter Of Fascists Ha Ha Ha" on the photo mentioned?  No she actually testified to NOT writing it but also not remembering very well.. IOW "the FBI had not yet told me what to say"

I just can't figure her trying to be funny, even derisively, about such talk from her husband.

And who wouldn't be asking their husband why he would want her to take extremely provocative pictures of him with two guns and those Russian newspapers?

Maybe she did.  Wonder what he told her in response.  Joe, She did not take the BYPs.  Not a single one of them.  There is, in fact, quite a bit of skepticism that the Oswald's ever lived at Neely to begin with...  At Neely they only had one small child

June on 214 Neely Balcony.jpg
Man woman and 2 children at Neely - not Oswald.jpg

Oswald told Will Fritz ( when he was claiming the BYP were faked ) that he ( Oswald ) knew a lot about photography.  

Was he exaggerating his level of knowledge and skills in this area?

If you look at the list of inventory items taken from Oswald you'll find quite a lot of photographic equipment.  When searching in New Orleans he was looking for a photography job...  Amazingly, he was hired at Jagger-Chiles-Stovall who was doing photograhic work for the DoD

63-08-08 Oswald lists United Fruit as a job search for the TEC on Aug 3.jpg

Or does anyone know whether Oswald was into photography ( even recreational ) in the military or during his stay in Russia?

Or did Oswald think he learned enough at S and Jaggers to claim this expertise?

Here is a list of some of the photographic equipment, among other things.

0113-001.gif

 

 

 

 

 

Mrs. PORTER. No, I don't. That is what I was discussing with my lawyer. We tried to find out if that was written by me. I mean as I told him, that my handwriting does change a few times a day. I do not write same way, you know, in the morning and maybe at night, so it is hard for me to claim even my own handwriting, but you have certain way of writing, habit of writing certain letters, so I know for sure that I could not, I do not write certain letter that way. So at first I thought it was maybe my handwriting, but after I examine it, I know it is not. 
Mr. McDONALD. Well, first of all, what does it say? 
Mrs. PORTER. "For hunter of fascist, ha, ha, ha." 
Mr. McDONALD. "Hunter of fascist"? 
Mrs. PORTER. Yes. 

George DeMor BYP with HUNTER OF FACISTS HA HA HA.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Paul wrote: “It's amusing that the WC forced Marina Oswald to "confess" that she took two BYP's, but they were dumbfounded years later to learn that Roscoe White's wife had a completely different pose, and there was also a fourth pose (IIRC) later found.”

 

I’m not aware of a “fourth pose”, Paul - please elaborate.

 

Tom

 

Edit added: But maybe you’re referring to a photo that Marina claimed that she and Marguerite destroyed.

 
 
Edited by Tom Hume

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tom, I believe there was one which Marge also mentioned with Oswald holding the rifle above his head.

I think it's in her testimony, not Marina's.

Mr. RANKIN. In regard to the photograph, I will show you some photographs. Maybe you can tell me whether they are the ones that you are referring to. Here is Commission's Exhibit 134. 
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir, that is not the picture.
Mr. RANKIN. And 133, consists of two different pictures. 

Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir, that is not the picture. He was holding the rifle and it said, "To my daughter, June, with love." He was holding the rifle up. 
Mr. RANKIN. By holding it up, you mean---- 
Mrs. OSWALD. Like this. 
Mr. RANKIN. Crosswise, with both hands on the rifle? 
Mrs. OSWALD. With both hands on the rifle. 
Mr. RANKIN. Above his head? 
Mrs. OSWALD. That is right. 

=====

While there, Marina--there is an ashtray on the dressing table. And Marina comes with hits of paper, and puts them in the ashtray and strikes a match to it. And this is the picture of the gun that Marina tore up into bits of paper, and struck a match to it. 
Now, that didn't burn completely, because it was heavy--not cardboard--what is the name for it--a photographic picture. So the match didn't take it completely. 
Mr. RANKIN. Had you said anything to her about burning it before that? 
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir. The last time I had seen the picture was in Marina's shoe when she was trying to tell me that the picture was in her shoe. I state here now that Marina meant for me to have that picture, from the very beginning, in Mrs. Paine's home. She said--I testified before "Mamma, you keep picture." 
And then she showed it to me in the courthouse. And when I refused it, then she decided to get rid of the picture. 
She tore up the picture and struck a match to it. Then I took it and flushed it down the toilet. 
Mr. RANKIN. And what time was this? 
Mrs. OSWALD. This--now, just a minute, gentlemen, because this I know is very important to me and to you, too. 
We had been in the jail. This was an evening. Well, this, then, would be approximately 5:30 or 6 in the evening. 
Mr. RANKIN. What day? 

Mrs. OSWALD. On Saturday, November 23. Now, I flushed the torn bits and the half-burned thing down the commode. And nothing was said. There was nothing said. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back to the original question, Jack White said there were conflicting shadows without explaining how the shadows conflicted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, John Butler said:

Back to the original question, Jack White said there were conflicting shadows without explaining how the shadows conflicted.

I think Wim was talking figuratively about casting shadows upon reputations. I doubt we'll hear from Wim, I'll have to change my shorts if we hear from Jack..... and, to be sure, I was trying to draw-out Bill Miller, to no avail.

Cheers,

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now