Ashton Gray

Where are the films and photos?

45 posts in this topic

Ashton has bemoaned the state of this thread. Let's recap the posts and see where it went all screwy:

1. Ashton starts the thread asking for info about photographs.

2. John Dolva offers some helpful links.

...

32. Ashton Grey calls the Forum a "petri dish for such agent provocateurs and idiots"

This stuff deserves its own TV series...

MV

And when you did your assessment, there were about 4 messages out of the 32 that were responsive and on-topic, and it all included a visit by the forum administrator.

It doesn't take a math genius to figure out the signal-to-noise ratio.

Ashton

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And when you did your assessment, there were about 4 messages out of the 32 that were responsive and on-topic, and it all included a visit by the forum administrator.

It doesn't take a math genius to figure out the signal-to-noise ratio.

Ashton

I agree - it's one reason I recapped the posts. I'm as guilty as anyone of piling on when the going gets rough. Someone once suggested a two hour requisite cooling-off period between reading and returning Internet emails. Posts intending to inflame and provoke are too often successful. I'm going to give it a try and see if I can make a small contribution toward comity on this forum.

MV

Thanks very much. I'll try to do my part better in that regard, too. I hope this thread can result in some kind of coordinated effort at some point, but I'm also putting out feelers on other lines. I have no doubt whatsoever that the resources exist. It's really only a matter of enough agreement on it being a worthwhile purpose to get a seed planted. It can grow and improve over time.

The first requirements are going to be a server that can bear the strain and someone with the technical savvy to set it up intelligently and maintain it. I'm making inquiries on both counts.

Ashton

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And when you did your assessment, there were about 4 messages out of the 32 that were responsive and on-topic, and it all included a visit by the forum administrator.

It doesn't take a math genius to figure out the signal-to-noise ratio.

Ashton

I agree - it's one reason I recapped the posts. I'm as guilty as anyone of piling on when the going gets rough. Someone once suggested a two hour requisite cooling-off period between reading and returning Internet emails. Posts intending to inflame and provoke are too often successful. I'm going to give it a try and see if I can make a small contribution toward comity on this forum.

MV

Thanks very much. I'll try to do my part better in that regard, too. I hope this thread can result in some kind of coordinated effort at some point, but I'm also putting out feelers on other lines. I have no doubt whatsoever that the resources exist. It's really only a matter of enough agreement on it being a worthwhile purpose to get a seed planted. It can grow and improve over time.

The first requirements are going to be a server that can bear the strain and someone with the technical savvy to set it up intelligently and maintain it. I'm making inquiries on both counts.

Ashton

Excellent - and FWIW, this site - http://www.jfk-online.com/jfklinks.html - has numerous links for info. Sorry if it's already been posted, and I have *NO* idea of the personal leanings (pro or anti conspiracy) of the web site administrator. It just seems rich in information.

MV

Dave Reitzes and Lone Nutter associates. Associate of John McAdams (creator of the moderated newsgroup alt.assassination.jfk, prof. Marquette University, USA) -- One of the most most prolific JFK assassination poster (by some count 30,000), he's disappeared the past few years, last I heard DReitzes was working with Bob Vernon on one project or another [year or so ago]. Longtime JGarrison attack specialist. Admitted convert to Lone Nutter status... a huge void was created when Reitzes "retired", hasn't be filled to this day

The film and photo archive is of questionable source -- no lineage for imagery, not bad for reference. End-all be-all regarding assassination imagery? never happen! Reitzes however is a good writer...

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You obviously don't hear or hear and totally can not fathom the logic of what I say. You have appointed yourself Jack White's censor and corrector, judge and executioner minus trial.

I'll let the record speak for itself, Peter. I respond to sorry assed poorly thought out alteration claims ... it just so happens that Jack invents nearly all of them, thus he is the one I respond to. The trial is in the evidence that is offered in rebuttal.

Bill Miller

What is it with you Lone Neuter's, can't spell a guys last name correctly --- sheesh, another graduate of the Lamson school of etiquette...

Maybe someone can start a thread over why someone would continue to call known CT's LNRs or in this case ... try to provoke others by playing with the spelling.

Bill Miller

Don't you see [i guess not] all the negativity you bring, and that is pervades the forum and spreads..... some others also do a bit too much.

Chemotherapy is not a pleasant experience to endure and may seem to be a nagative thing to those having to deal with it, but it counters the cancer which is the worse of the two evils.

Edited by Bill Miller

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The "cancer" is the political mindset that begat this conspiracy, coup and cover-up and all that has followed since. For the true lovers of this nation and all that it used to stand for - there can never be a worse evil.

Edited by JL Allen

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The "cancer" is the political mindset that begat this conspiracy, coup and cover-up and all that has followed since. For the true lovers of this nation and all that it used to stand for - there can never be a worse evil.

I agree. But let's not forget about the little boy who cried wolf and why no one believed him. It's better to offer just one well thought out piece of evidence for a conspiracy rather than to post utter nonsense again and again that can easily be showed in error.

Bill Miller

Edited by Bill Miller

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I have a question.

Where are the corresponding photos to the list of hundreds of phototgraphs compiled and published in Computers and Automation article?

I am interested in viewing the photos of Dealey Plaza in the hour after the assassianation because among the mele should be the man in the brown suit coat, Jim Braden and Lummie Lewis emerging from the Dal Text building.

BK

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I have a question.

Where are the corresponding photos to the list of hundreds of phototgraphs compiled and published in Computers and Automation article?

I am interested in viewing the photos of Dealey Plaza in the hour after the assassianation because among the mele should be the man in the brown suit coat, Jim Braden and Lummie Lewis emerging from the Dal Text building.

BK

excellent question - some of them I suspect, are housed at the 6th floor Museum. I doubt they'll [originals or 1st generations] be made available to researchers... Seems the 6th floor museum is now in the business of managing JFK-DP 'amateur' photographer photo/film assets. I'm sure others have made maximum use of Sprague's list ...

Edited by David G. Healy

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Ashton,

I've been somewhat amazed at the seeming difficultly of locating anything resembling an easily accessible comprehensive repository of the known photos and films from the Kennedy assassination.

Ashton Gray

As far as photos, you might want to check this site out:

http://jfkmurderphotos.bravehost.com/photos.html

Steve Thomas

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A general gracious and hearty "Thank You!" to everyone who in good faith has supplied resources, links, and helpful suggestions.

The bravehost site consistently gives a "bandwidth exceeded" error page. I guess you have to get up early.

Ashton

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On topic, hopefully, is the real question - where are the films and photos? Using Bravehost for the comparison. If any knows where the other Altgens photos can be found, that would be great. Only missing ~60.

I tried to augment this list a bit - I'm sure I omitted something.

http://wiretap.area.com/Gopher/Library/Fri...ry/jfk-foto.lis

"The assassination of John F. Kennedy, a comprehensive historical and legal

bibliography, 1963-1979" by DeLloyd J. Guth and David R. Wrone

M = motion picture P = still photograph

MC = motion picture color PC = still photograph

MB = motion picture black color (slide)

and white PB = still photograph

TV = television film black and white

195. Allen, Richard.

M: Amateur's edited footage which was incorporated into

President Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

196. Allen, William.

PB: Dallas Times Herald photographer who snapped 73

shots of Dealey Plaza, the inside of the TSBD, and also

three shots of "winos" being taken in for questioning.

I only know of a few Allen photos. Bravehost attributes 11 to Allen, which, assuming that this is correct, leaves the whereabouts of 62 unknown?

197. Altgens, James W.

PB: Associated Press photographer who snapped 73 photos,

seven at the time of the motorcade and the rest that

afternoon. A crucial picture taken from the south side

of Elm depicts JFK clutching his throat with a figure,

said to resemble LHO, standing in the TSBD background.

It is the subject of intense controversy. The FBI

severely cropped the picture, used as evidence by the

WC. Washinton Post, 23 Nov. 1963; Shaw [2213] and es-

pecially Weisberg [735]; [see 3665].

There are only a few Altgens photos publicly available. Bravehost lists 8 and has 7 attributed to Altgens. Where are all the aftermaths shots Altgens took? The 6th Floor Museum does not have them either - nor POTP, Groden's KOAP, etc.

198. Alyea, Thomas P.

TV: WFAA-TV photographer who at the first sound of

gunfire ran toward the TSBD with his Bell & Howell, 70

DR, 16 mm, filming as he ran. Inside the TSBD he took

five reels as the police made their initial search of

the interior, including the discovery of the alleged

murder weapon, the alleged sniper's nest, etc. The FBI

refused to acquire the 500 feet of film which totaled

25,000 frames until many weeks later, after the studio

had severely edited the reels for a composite single reel

and the integrity of the evidentiary value was impaired.

Remnant frames exist. Weisberg [1075], 39-40, 121-23,

274-75.

199. Atkins.

Listed by Sprague [1098] but unverifiable.

200. Beck.

Listed by Sprague [1098], but unverifiable.

This account can be found on McAdams. Allegedly taken by a Mrs. Beck of Lincoln Park, from the top of the underpass. There is an interesting account on this by Sprague someplace - the FBI could not locate the film - can't find the reference.

201. Beers, Jack.

PB: Dallas Morning News photographer who snapped 33

shots around and inside the TSBD immediately after the

assassination. Included are shots of the boxes and sash

arrangement inside the alleged sniper's window which clash

with the official findings and shots of "winos" being

taken in for questioning. Weisberg [1058], Shaw [2213].

Bravehost lists 21, but only has 3.

202. Bell, F. M.

MC: Filmed from the SW corner of Main and Houston.

Thompson map [732].

203. Benell, Albert.

M: Amateur whose edited footage was incorporated into

President Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

204. Betzner, Hugh, Jr.

PB: Citizen who with his Kodak 120 snapped three pictures

of the JFK party turning from Houston into Elm Street

including one with the TSBD in the background. Weisberg

[1058].

205. Bond, Wilma.

PC: Amateur who snapped nine 35 mm slides as the motor-

cade moved onto Houston Street, as well as after the

assassination. Some of her slides contain important

factual material obfuscated by the federal investigative

agencies. Weisberg [1075], 42, 46-9 Thompson map [732].

Bravehost has 8 for Bond, and has only 5 available.

206. Boren, Bryant.

M: Amateur whose edited footage was incorporated into

President Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

207. Bothun, Richard.

PB: Snapped from inside grassy triangle opposite

Zapruder. Thompson map [252], Cutler map [1071].

? Referred to elsewhere as Bothun #4. Bravehost has 4 listed, but only 2 available.

208. Brenk, Rudy.

M: Amateur whose footage was incorporated into

President Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

209. Bronson, Charles L.

MC: Amateur whose 8mm film of the assassination scene

was discovered in 1978 by critics. Released with a major

news story by Dallas Morning News, 26 Nov. 1978. Film

analyzed and enhanced by optic expert Robert Groden.

Major national coverage impaired by inexpert news

releases by Assassination Information Bureau, 26 Nov.

1978. See also NYT, 28 Nov. 1978.

210. Brown, Joe.

M: Amateur whose footage was incorporated into President

Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

211. Burrows, Henry.

An Associated Press photographer listed by Sprague [1098]

but unverifiable.

212. Cabluck, Jerrold.

PB: Fort Worth Star Telegram photographer who snapped

three pictures of Dealey Plaza from a helicopter as well

as three ground pictures.

Bravehost has 6 listed, 1 available.

213. Cabluck, Harry.

Fort Worth Star Telegram photographer who snapped four

shots of grass on interior triangle of Dealey Plaza where

a bullet possibly hit, and three pictures at Parkland.

Shaw [2213]; [see 714].

Bravehost has 7 listed and 3 available.

214. Cancellare, Frank.

United Press International photographer who snapped

several pictures on Dealey Plaza.

How many? Bravehost has 7 and 6.

215. Cook, Donald.

A KTTV-TV photographer listed by Sprague [1098] but

unverifiable.

216. Couch, Malcom.

TV: ABC-TV cameraman in motorcade who filmed Dealey

Plaza area immediately after killing. Views of TSBD

front and related subjects.

217. Croft, Robert Earl.

PC: One reel 36 exposures on Kodachrome X film.

Bravehost, 3 and 3.

218. Daniel, Jack.

MC: Amateur 8mm, ten second, 176 frame movie that

depicts the events immediately after the assassination

including the departure of motorcycle policemen. Dis-

covered in 1978.

219. Darnell, James.

Listed as a WBAP-TV cameraman by Sprague [1098] but

unverifiable.

220. Davis, William.

Listed by Sprague [1098] but unverifiable.

221. Dillard, Thomas C.

PB: Dallas Morning News photographer who snapped at

least five pictures. Immediately after the assassina-

tion he took two snaps of the TSBD, one which was repro-

duced in the WR severely cropped and improperly labeled

a picture of the triple underpass area which the WC offi-

cially refused to admit to its existence, and two shots

which were snapped the next day of the curbstone asso-

ciated with the wounding of citizen James T. Tague.

Weisberg [1075].

Bravehost has 4 in DP.

222. Dorman, Elsie T.

MC: Amateur on the fourth floor TSBD who filmed the

motorcade passing as the assassination occurred. Film

neither acquired nor examined by the FBI or WC despite

her statement to SS. Thompson map [732]; Weisberg [1075].

223. Field, Mr. C.

Listed by FBI in 100-10461-1178 Dallas Field Office

Files. No description.

224. Gewertz, Irving.

M: Amateur whose edited footage was incorporated into

President Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

225. Gray, W. C.

M: Amateur whose edited footage was incorporated into

President Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

ADD - Hood - photo of blood pool.

226. Howard, T.

Listed by Sprague [1098] but unverifiable.

227. Hughes, Robert J.

MC: Amateur standing on the corner of Main and Houston

whose 8mm film recorded the motorcade turning onto Elm

past crowds before the TSBD. The FBI severely cropped

one frame for presentation in CD 1 [91] by removing infor-

mation essential for understanding the time and place and

carefully mislabeling it as being taken at 12:20 rather

than the actual 12:30, the time of the assassination. In

WR 644 the error is continued with the second part in the

footnote reference to a non-existent source, while the

first part is to data other than is claimed. The two

figures appearing in the windows adjacent to the alleged

sniper's window are presumptively asserted by officials,

and replicated and enhanced by CBS [2690], to be the

central point at issue, but the empty alleged sniper's

window and the empty fifth floor windows where the WC

said the alleged earwitnesses sat at the time the assassi-

nation was in progress are the evidentiary points raised.

Thompson's map and discussion [732] ignore the empty

window and FBI misrepresentations and focus on tangential

issues. Weisberg [1075] is basic.

228. Jackson, Robert.

P: Dallas Times Herald photographer snapped pictures

after the assassination and over the several days of the

controversy. His pictures were not introduced when he

testified before the WC and his picture of Oswald's

arrest was excised from the printed record. WC 26 H

781-2; Weisberg [1075].

None for Bravehost.

229. Jamison, J.

MB: WBAT-TV cameraman mentioned in Weisberg [1075].

230. Kincaid, George.

M: Amateur whose edited footage was incorporated into

President Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

231. KRLD-TV.

TV: Copy of Oswald murderfllm claimed by Sprague [1098]

but unverifiable.

232. Laird, J.

PB: Dallas Morning News photographer who snapped 47

shots.

Bravehost = 0.

233. L'Hoste, A. J.

TV: Professional cameraman for WFAA-TV who filmed the

TSBD immediately after the murder. No official record of

the film exists.

Was it Cole and Hood that had the pool of blood they saw photographed and not L'Hoste also? Didn't L'Hoste also capture the one he saw? Can't remember and no reference at the moment.

234. McAulay, Joseph.

PB: Fort Worth Star Telegram photographer who snapped

three pictures of a man being apprehended in Fort Worth.

235. MacCammon, Jim.

PB: Snapped pictures of Tippit murder scene and Texas

Theater arrest of Oswald.

236. Martin, John H.

M: Amateur whose edited film of assassionation scene

was incorporated into President Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

ADD: McIntyre, Mel. Bravehost has 3 listed, 2 available.

237. Mentesana, Ernest.

MC: Amateur located in the freight yard area near the

TSBD who filmed "the turmoil" immediately after the

assassination. Edited version incorporated into President

Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

238. Mester, Earl.

M: Amateur whose edited film was incorporated into Presi-

dent Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

239. Miller, D.

PB: Snapped JFK limousine on Stemmons Freeway on way to

Parkland Hospital.

240. Moorman, D.

PB: Snapped JFK limousine on Stemmons Freeway on way to

Parkland Hospital.

241. Moorman, Mary.

PB: From the grass on the south side of Elm snapped at

least two Polaroid pictures of the assassination, one

showing the TSBD and sixth floor window, the other the

grassy knoll; [see 1089, 1090].

Bravehost lists 7, has 4.

242. Muchmore, Mary.

MC: From the grassy interior, an amateur filmed the

assassination. Acquired by UPI.

243. Murray, James.

PC: Freelance cameraman whose slides include a frontal

view of the TSBD about the time of the assassination.

244. Newman, Justin.

PB: Amateur who snapped the JFK limousine rushing to

Parkland Hospital on Stemmons Freeway opposite the Trade

Mart where JFK was to have spoken.

245. Nix, Orville.

MC: Amateur who filmed the assassination from the south

of Elm.

246. Owens, Dan.

TV: Cameraman for WBAP-TV listed by Sprague [1098] but

unverifiable.

247, Parr, Wyman.

M: Amateur whose edited film was incorporated into

President Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

248. Paschall, P.

Listed by Sprague [1098] but unverifiable.

Since that time it has been verified and is available for study.

249. Phenix, George.

Listed by Weisberg [1075].

?

250. Powell, James W.

PB: Member of a U.S. Army Intelligence Reserve unit who

snapped at least one picture of the full front of the

TSBD about 30 seconds after the assassination. Long

suppressed by the federal government. Shown in Shaw

[2213].

251. President Kennedy's Last Hour.

MC: A 16 mm film produced by Dallas Cinema Associates,

Inc., Dallas, 1964. 175 feet, 8720 frames, 12 minute

composite of 18 Dallas amateurs' edited films of the

motorcade and the assassination and immediate aftermath,

sold commercially first by the amateur group and then

through Wolper Productions, Inc., Dallas. The FBI

refused the edited film and ignored the original films.

The WC ignored it. Weisberg [1075].

252. Randell, Hazel (Gooch).

M: Amateur whose edited film was incorporated into

President Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

253. Reed, 5. L.

PC: Snapped three 35 mm pictures of the Texas Theater

arrest scene and related subjects.

254. Reiland, Ronald.

TV: Listed as WFAA-TV cameraman by Sprague [1098] and

Weisberg [1075].

255. Rhodes, Allen.

M: Amateur whose edited film was incorporated into

President Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

256. Rickerby,

PB: Amateur who snapped pictures from the middle of Elm

opposite Zapruder's position a few seconds after the

assassination.

257. Sanderson,

Listed by Sprague [1098] but unverifiable.

258. Seigler, Howard.

M: Amateur whose edited film of the motorcade was

incorporated into President Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

259. Shawver, George.

M: Amateur whose edited film was incorporated into

President Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

ADD - Jay Skaggs. Available for viewing at Sixth Floor museum. Headshot photo [part of a collage that hung on the wall] disappeared before photos were donated to the museum.

260. Similas, Norman Mitchel.

P: Canadian professional photographer who snapped a roll

of film of JFK's assassination from "seven feet" away.

The film was not acquired by the federal government. The

magazine publishing them ceased publication in the midst

of a series. Similas [345] and Weisberg [1075].

Tried contacting Similas without success. He should have photos of LBJ and Nixon at the Bottler's convention, possibly Carousel photos the evening of 11/21, and shots from the Plaza. Allegedly one of the TSBD with men in the window was confiscated.

261. Smith, George.

P: Fort Wortn Star Telegram photographer who snapped

seven pictures of the assassination scene immediately

afterwards.

262. Speigle

M: Amateur whose edited film was incorporated into

President Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

263. Stoughton,

Listed by Sprague [1098] but unverifiable.

Verified since then - Cecil Stoughton. No clue how many photos he took. He was in one of the Press cars in the motorcade. The only photo that I am aware of is the one that appears to have been taken almost simulateously with Rickerby. Marcel did an interesting study on that here:

http://users.skynet.be/copweb/jfk/Stoughton-Rickerby.htm

264. Thomas, Larry

M: Amateur whose edited film was incorporated into

President Kennedy's Last Hour [251].

265. Towner, Jim.

PC: Amateur who snapped twelve pictures of the assassina-

tion scene immediately afterwards.

Bravehost has 3 listed, 3 available. I don't recall having seen any others personally.

ADD: Towner, Tina. Film. Verified and available.

266. Underwood, James.

TV: Photographer for KRLD-TV riding in press car of

motorcade who filmed the TSBD, grassy knoll, and the crowd

as the car moved onto Elm. He left the car and remained

"in front of the building" continuing to photograph all

who entered and left the TSBD. After taking his testimony

the WC declined to examine the film and did not acquire a

copy. Weisberg [1075].

I don't recall ever seeing that one anywhere. Bravehost = 0.

267. Unknown AP.

Sprague [1098] lists four Associated Press photographers,

but this is unverifiable.

268. Unknown DCA-l.

M: Amateur film on list Dallas Cinema Associates supplied

to the FBI of those films making up President Kennedy's

Last Hour [251]. The FBI rendered the name illegible.

Weisberg [1075].

269. Unknown DCA-2.

M: Amateur film on list Dallas Cinema Associates supplied

to the FBI of those films making up President Kennedy's

Last Hour [251]. The FBI rendered the name illegible.

Weisberg [1075].

270. Unknown DFO-FBI.

In the FBI's Dallas Field Office files on JFK since 1963

are "bulky exhibits containing numerous photographs and

other documents . . . located in a secure metal file

cabinet with the total volume . . . being 15 cubic feet."

(DFO 89-43. Serial 9958). Only after a tangled legal

battle did Weisberg discover their existence.

271. Unknown UPI.

Sprague [1098] lists three UPI photographers but this is

unverifiable.

272. Volkland,

Listed by Sprague [1098] but unverifiable.

Verified. Al Volkland. If memory serves he took several photos, but I am only aware of one - the shot of the Lincoln speeding away on Stemmons. I think POTP has a photo of the individual believed to have been Volkland.

273. Weaver, Jack A.

PB: One photograph of President's car making the right-

hand turn onto Houston Street from Main showing the TSBD

in the background.

ADD: Weigman, Dave - Film. In one of the Press cars - runs while filming.

274. Westfall, Mrs. E. H.

PC: Two color photographs of the TSBD, both showing the

pertinent window on the sixth floor as being closed.

Taken 9:00 a.m., 22 Nov. 1963.

I believe this one is in contention - with the lean towards 11/23.

275. Willis, Phillip L.

PC: Snapped 18 important slides of the murder scene and

its aftermath which he sells commercially. Slide number

five was taken after the first apparent shot hit JFK and

coordinates with Zapruder frames 202-206. After commer-

cial publication brought them into public view, the WC

interviewed Willis. Weisberg [532, 1075] provides indis-

pensable commentary upon the evidentiary value of the

slides and the relationship of them to the WC's investi-

gation.

Bravehost lists 22 - and has 12 available. POTP has one additional that Bravehost appears to be missing. Where are the other ones?

276. Winfrey, Bill.

PB: Picture of Oswald handcuffed at Dallas jail, taken

by a professional.

277. Zapruder, Abraham.

MC: Amateur who stood on the pergola north of Elm just

in front of the picket fence and filmed the motorcade from

its entrance into Elm Street until the car bearing the

assassinated President sped away under the triple under-

pass. Using an 8 mm super Bell & Howell camera his film

has 484 frames running at 18.3 frames per second

constituting a clock of the assassination, and establish-

ing a time and a place for much evidentiary data. The

FBI and the WC assigned a number to each frame and con-

cluded that trees blocked JFK's car from the alleged

assassin's lair in the TSBD from frame 170 to 210, being

the point where they allege the first shot fired by the

alleged assassin could have hit JFK. The third and last

of the three alleged shots occurred at frame 313. The WR

prints several frames and the Hearings and Exhibits

begins reproduction with 171. The motion picture has

about 25 percent of each frame cropped, removing vital

data; frames 155 and 156 are missing; 207 and 212 are

spliced diagonally being composites; 208, 209, 210, and

211 are missing, reportedly having been destroyed in the

processing lab of Life magazine, who purchased the film.

Black and white copies of the missing frames 208-211 were

made from the poor copy of the Secret Service set.

ADD: The 'Gory' version of the film - ref, Palamara's Survivor's Guilt.

For Fun...

ADD - Other film, seen by many individuals, ref MIDP, Fetzer. Allegedly higher quality, contains Limo turn on Elm, multiple headshots, limo stop, etc. No Jiggle. From questions asked it seems as if it was taken from further back, and lower than Z's position, possibly the Nix Classic 'Gunman' location.

ADD - Arnold, Gordon - allegedly took film and had it removed by man dressed in DPD uniform with dirty fingernails.

ADD - Bubushka Lady. Allegedly Beverly Oliver, who had the film confiscated by Regis Kennedy.

ADD - Lady in Blue. Can be seen filming from area of North Peristyle on sidewalk, south side of Elm, in Dorman film. Unknown.

ADD - Lady with Kodak Brownie on the triangle, south side of Elm close to underpass. Can be seen in Cancellare? aftermath photo. Unknown.

ADD - Other film - Mrs. Thomas / Thompson? Unverified. Allegedly taken from an office building window. No reference available. Heard about it from a vendor in DP.

ADD - Other film, allegedly seen By Edward Bray. Taken through the crosshairs from the TSBD. Training film also using cameras mounted on weapon - [GSAP].

ADD - Other film, allegedly seen by individual bussing tables at high Military brass viewing. Allegedly showed 2 shooters. Can't find the reference at the moment. Email posted on JFK forums.

ADD - Other film? B&W referred to by Hosty?

ADD - Alleged other films, Fort Hood video crew with wireless feeds, as per HSCA Steve Osborne testimony.

Edited by Lee Forman

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A general gracious and hearty "Thank You!" to everyone who in good faith has supplied resources, links, and helpful suggestions.

The bravehost site consistently gives a "bandwidth exceeded" error page. I guess you have to get up early.

Ashton

Such a site as you envision, if done well, must not only have the right items in high-quality format, but a big server and high-bandwidth and lot of strong firewalls and protections from tampering/hacking..which I'd be willing to bet would be a regular feature. Apparently, the photo evidence bothers the cover-upers more than the paper and witness evidence in some ways.

not only the highest quality, but the *provenance* of said film and photos that reside on ANY server. In my estimation the lineage of every DP related film/photo should be questioned. Research regarding a image/film, the lineage of the source imagery used should be absolutely clear. The longer folks do study's on 10th generation internet downloaded .jpegs, the more time wasted.

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not only the highest quality, but the *provenance* of said film and photos that reside on ANY server. In my estimation the lineage of every DP related film/photo should be questioned. Research regarding a image/film, the lineage of the source imagery used should be absolutely clear. The longer folks do study's on 10th generation internet downloaded .jpegs, the more time wasted.

So basically what you are implying is that maybe John Simkin might as well turn off the image posting part of the forum because any study of the photos and films is a waste of time unless each one of us can actually hold the originals in our hands. As I recall, in the 'Hoax' book that you particpated in - none of the images used in that book to make claims were the originals, yet I didn't see you mention a single word about that part of the book being a waste of time. How interesting! While agree that having the alleged originals authenticated for evidentuary value is important, it has little to do with the photos not being worthy of study. In fact, all the alteration claims I have seen so far having nothing to do with the authenticity of the film or photograph because it was the information within the image itself that was being misinterpreted.

Bill Miller

Edited by Bill Miller

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