• Announcements

    • Evan Burton

      OPEN REGISTRATION BY EMAIL ONLY !!! DETAILS HERE:

      We are opening registration!! If you are interested, please send an email to: edforumbusiness@outlook.com We require you use your real name, a valid email address, and your agreement to the Terms of Use, seen here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21403. Additionally, you will have to send us your photo for use as an avatar and submit a brief biography. We will post these for you, and send you your password. We cannot approve membership until we receive these. We look forward to having you as a part of the Forum! Sincerely, The Education Forum Team
Greg Parker

question for Larry H or David B

8 posts in this topic

Larry, David - or indeed, anyone else who might be able to help - has anyone looked for/interviewed Larry Jones?

Weissman told the WC that Jones had left Dallas before he himself arrived, giving the impression that Jones was not in Dallas on 22nov63.

But later in his testimony, is this exchange:

Senator COOPER. May I ask this question: Would you state now to this Commission the idea of printing this ad was conceived by you and Larry Jones--- what is the other's name?

Mr. WEISSMAN. Larrie Schmidt.

Senator COOPER. Alone, and there was no stimulation from any out. side group or organization. Do you state that under oath?

Note, he did not contradict Cooper about Jones being a party to the Black Border ad - which places him firmly in Dallas.

The FBI interviewed Weissman, Schmidt ad Burley - but not Jones.

They did however, interview Weissman's boss at the carpet company. He claimed that Jones phoned and left a message for Weissman just before or just after the assassination asking to meet at the usual place. Again, according to the manager, Weissman freaked out at hearing Jones' name - even denying he knew him.

[CE 1813]

I personally believe Jones should be considered a suspect, but the lack of investigation on him is frustrating. Any help much appreciated.

greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greg, to the best of my knowledge nobody has really spent any time with Larry Jones, Dick Russell gives a fair amount of attention too the CUSA guys in his book The Man Who Knew Too Much and you might want to take a look at that. Dick also mentions that Look magazine interviewed Schmidt pretty extensively about their whole CUSA plan, who was involved, strategy etc. so you might check the Look back issues.

Dave may be able to tell you more but of course our usual problem is that nobody not directly associated with Oswald was considered a suspect for criminal investigation - not even employees in the TSBD....or somebody like Jack Lawrence. Which means if a researcher has't pursued it there's nothing in the record from a criminal investigation perspective (which the WC obviously was not...not a DA or practicing prosecuting criminal lawyer in the crowd as I recall). Sorry I can't be of help.

-- Larry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks anyway Larry,

I recently bought a copy of TMWKTM, but was a little disappointed there wasn't as much info on CUSA as I'd thought there'd be. In fact, Jones isn't even mentioned. Maybe I should have got hold of the 1st edition?

The FBI should have found Jones and interviewed him not just as one of the founding members of CUSA, but to follow up on the phone call. Scott's negative template may well apply here.

There is a photo of three of the CUSA guys in Russell's book. I believe one is Weissman, another is Schmidt. Do you know if the third one is Jones?

If it is him, he looks to be a similar build to LHO, and Weissman described him as 21 but looking 30 -- the age given of the suspect in DPD broadcasts.

Thin, I know... but added to his timely phone call to Weissman -- and Weissman's reported reaction to it, as well as the distinct lack of interest by the FBI... well... I'm keen to find out more about him, if only to rule him out.

greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting point you make about Larry Jones. Most books about the Kennedy assassination have very little to say about Larry Jones or Bernard Weissman. Those that do point out that Weissman placed the anti-Kennedy advert in the Dallas Morning News that appeared on the morning of the assassination. Others refer to the claims made by Mark Lane that Weissman met Ruby and Tippit at the Carousel Club on 14th November, 1963.

Weissman was interviewed by the Warren Commission and he had a very interesting story to tell.

In August, 1961, Weissman joined the U.S. Army and served in Germany where he met Larrie Schmidt. The two men shared an interest in right-wing politics and were both supporters of the John Birch Society. While in Germany the two men discussed the possibility of establishing a right-wing political group when they returned to the United States.

Weissman was discharged in August 1963 but was unable to find work. Short of money, Weissman contacted Larrie Schmidt who was at that time living in Dallas. Schmidt told Weissman about his involvement in the attack on the liberal politician, Adlai Stevenson. According to Schmidt, this had been organized by General Edwin Walker. Schmidt added that his brother was working as General Walker's chauffeur and general aide.

Schmidt invited Weissman to Dallas. Weissman later told the Warren Commission that Schmidt argued: "If we are going to take advantage of the situation, or if you are," meaning me, "you better hurry down here and take advantage of the publicity, and at least become known among these various right-wingers, because this is the chance we have been looking for to infiltrate some of these organizations and become known," in other words, go along with the philosophy we had developed in Munich."

Weissman arrived in Dallas on 4th November, 1963. Soon afterwards Weissman joined an organization called the Young Americans for Freedom. Schmidt also invited Weissman to join the John Birch Society but according to his testimony before the Warren Commission he changed his mind when he discovered too many of them were anti-Semitic (Weissman was Jewish).

Schmidt introduced Weissman to Joe Grinnan of the John Birch Society. Grinnan was involved in organizing protests against the visit of John F. Kennedy. Grinnan seemed to know about the visit before it was officially announced to the public. Grinnan suggested that they should place a black-bordered advert in the Dallas Morning News on 22nd November, 1963. The advert cost $1,465. Grinnan supplied the money. He claimed that some of this came from Nelson Bunker Hunt, the son of Haroldson L. Hunt. Weissman was given the task of signing the advert and taking it to the newspaper office.

The advert attacked Kennedy's foreign policy as being anti-American and communistic. This included the claim that Gus Hall, "head of the U.S. Communist Party praised almost every one of your policies and announced that the party will endorse and support your re-election in 1964". It also attacked Kennedy's domestic policies. Another passage asked why Robert Kennedy had been allowed "to go soft on Communists, fellow-travelers, and ultra-leftists in America."

Weissman was shocked by the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and told Schmidt he feared he would be accused of being involved in the killing. He told the Warren Commission he suspected that Kennedy had been killed by supporters of General Edwin Walker and that as a result he would be implicated in the plot. Weissman watched the reports on the assassination in a bar with Schmidt. He told the Warren Commission he felt relieved when he discovered that Lee Harvey Oswald had been arrested for the murder. The Warren Commission did not ask how he knew that Oswald was not a right-winger. Despite this news, Weissman and Schmidt decided to leave Dallas

Mark Lane testified before that Warren Commission that Thayer Waldo, a journalist on the staff of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, had told him that Weissman was involved in a two-hour meeting with Jack Ruby and J. D. Tippit at the Carousel Club on 14th November, 1963. According to Joachim Joesten (How Kennedy Was Killed), "a rich oil man" was also at this meeting. Weissman denied he had ever been to the Carousel Club and had never met Ruby or Tippit.

George Senator told reporters that Jack Ruby had tried to contact Weissman after the assassination. According to Seth Kantor (Who Was Jack Ruby): "He (Ruby) couldn't get to Bernard Weissman. There was no such person in the Dallas phone book. He checked"

From this evidence it seems that Oswald was not the only one being set-up as a patsy in Dallas during November, 1963.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKweissmanB.htm

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=660

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi John,

thanks for this reply, and also for the invitation to join the forum.

You have hit on one of my concerns over this: that Jews were likewise being set up.

As you probably know, Schmidt had written to Jones in Germany, telling him to ask Weissman to change his name because the Dallas extremists were very much anti-Semites.

Now skip forward to the ACLU meeting attended by Oswald where Mike Paine alleges the ACLU was calling for the JBS not to be called anti-Semitic.

Let me say at this point, I believe Paine was lying. If such a statement was made, it was more likely made at Morris' version of the ACLU. I simply cannot see the ACLU defending the JBS on this issue... but such a lie fits with the concerted effort being made by the likes of Schmidt, Morris etc to paint the JBS as Jewish-friendly.

A DPD report clearly indicates that only two groups were planning trouble during the motorcade -- The Indignant White Citizens Council (Grinnan's baby) and Walker's group. The WCC did hold a demonstration. Several were arrested after the assassination "for their own protection". But Walker's group was a no-show. So where was Walker? On a plane making sure everyone on it could confirm his alibi.

I don't think Walker was directly involved, but was possibly warned to make himself scarce.

Weissman's testimony showed a lot of animus toward Jones, and I have to wonder if the whiff of a double-cross wasn't the cause -- eg that Jones joined up with those groups Weissman et al were hoping to take control of.

I don't put much store in the Ruby/Weissman meeting... way too convenient, and fits the "Jewish conspiracy" touted by some at the time a bit too easily. From memory, I think Lane disavowed any oilman being mentioned.

Who was funding Weissman and Burley in Dallas? He claimed they lived on meagre savings, and Schmidt's credit card. Their job at the carpet company was strictly commission, and they made no sales -- yet Richard Marks of the Republican National Bank told the FBI that Weissman and Burley opened an an account on the 12th of November (see CE 1814). This was the date that Burley claimed in his interview with the FBI that the idea for the Black Border ad came up(see CE 1811).

Could the likes of Weissman and Burley have been working for, and paid by, the government?

An FBI memo to the WC referring to a memo it received from a USIA employee:

QUOTE

On 11/23/63 a U.S. Information Agency (USIA) employee,

Bernard Weisman, furnished the Bureau a four-page

memorandum concerning the Fair Play for Cuba Committee

(FPCC) in which Weisman raised a question as to whether

Communist China was possibly involved indirectly in the

assassination of President Kennedy by Lee Harvey Oswald.

Weisman indicated he was making copies of his memorandum

available to USIA and State Department.

The memorandum contained public source data regarding

Oswald; Vincent Theodore Lee, National Director of the FPCC

Richard Gibson, former head of the FPCC; Conrad Lynn,

communist attorney who has made trips to Cuba; Bureau

fugitive Robert F. Williams who fled to Cuba and visited

Communist China this fall; William Worthy, the controversial

Negro newspaperman who has appealed his conviction for

violating United States regulations pertaining to Cuban travel;

and Milton Rosen, who was expelled from the Communist Party

for disruptive activities which included following some Communist

Chinese ideologies. It showed that some of them had associated

themselves with the Communist Chinas "line" as regards race

relations in the United States.

Referring to Oswald's disillusionment with the Soviet Union,

his recent activities in connection with the FPCC and the fact

that he still reportedly held Marxist ideas, the memorandum

indicated that President Kennedy's assassination could have at

least advanced the interests of Communist China."

UNQUOTE

Note that Weissman is spelt with one "s" in the above, which means it may not be the same BW -- but -- his name has been mispelled that way in other documents.

The USIA - your friendly neighbouhood psyops specialists - were very active in West Germany were these guys were stationed, and Schmidt indeed, had media (newspaper?) experience.

greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greg,

I concur with your description of USIA. A little background: In August 1942 the COI was split into two distinct entities; The Office of War Information (OWI) and the Office of Strategic Services (OSS). In 1947 the United States Information Service (USIS) was formed to take over the duties of the OWI (1). USIS was subsequently renamed the United States Information Agency (USIA).

I can't categorize the USIA as an agency that would be complicit with the Communist Chinese concerning advanced knowledge of the assassination of JFK. My grandfather was a USIA station chief in southeast asia and had a $100,000 bounty placed on his life by the communist chinese. If anything this memo might have been disinformation to try to redirect tempers from communist russia to communist china. An internal Red Herring?

Nonetheless it would be interesting to see the actual "Weisman" memo.

Footnote: 1. The Black Ops group in OWI was transfered to CIA (along with OSS) not to USIS. This group's methods were so underhanded and horrifying that they caused the veteran OSS staffer's to cringe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks anyway Larry,

I recently bought a copy of TMWKTM, but was a little disappointed there wasn't as much info on CUSA as I'd thought there'd be. In fact, Jones isn't even mentioned. Maybe I should have got hold of the 1st edition?

The FBI should have found Jones and interviewed him not just as one of the founding members of CUSA, but to follow up on the phone call. Scott's negative template may well apply here.

There is a photo of three of the CUSA guys in Russell's book. I believe one is Weissman, another is Schmidt. Do you know if the third one is Jones?

If it is him, he looks to be a similar build to LHO, and Weissman described him as 21 but looking 30 -- the age given of the suspect in DPD broadcasts.

Thin, I know... but added to his timely phone call to Weissman -- and Weissman's reported reaction to it, as well as the distinct lack of interest by the FBI... well... I'm keen to find out more about him, if only to rule him out.

greg

Ah yes, CUSA. Larrie Schmidt and Robert J. Morris. That man Morris

along with his close fiend Willoughby were identified long ago by Bill

Turner and Mae Brussell, then later by Dick Russell as being the lynchpins

into the high level JFK plot. They will be recognized someday as being

the plotmaster perps along with Wick Draper and Annie Vonsiatsky and

the entire Manchurian Candidate gang like Dr. Edward Hunter, Major

George Racey Jordan, James Angleton, Ray S. Cline and company. Now

that the movie is coming back, I hope that renewed interest will cause

the focus to go back to MR MCCARTHYITE himself, Robert J. Morris who was

cited 6 times by Condon in the novel ManCand.

McCarthyites, MacArthurites, Pioneer Fund operatives and Eugenicists with

pro-Nazi sentiment. The World anti-Communist League which for a period

was laden with pro-Nazis, neo-Nazis and ex-Nazis.

Take it to the bank. Who would make better anti-Communists than

pro-Nazis? No one.

I rest my case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Greg,

I concur with your description of USIA. A little background: In August 1942 the COI was split into two distinct entities; The Office of War Information (OWI) and the Office of Strategic Services (OSS). In 1947 the United States Information Service (USIS) was formed to take over the duties of the OWI (1). USIS was subsequently renamed the United States Information Agency (USIA).

I can't categorize the USIA as an agency that would be complicit with the Communist Chinese concerning advanced knowledge of the assassination of JFK. My grandfather was a USIA station chief in southeast asia and had a $100,000 bounty placed on his life by the communist chinese. If anything this memo might have been disinformation to try to redirect tempers from communist russia to communist china. An internal Red Herring?

Nonetheless it would be interesting to see the actual "Weisman" memo.

Footnote: 1. The Black Ops group in OWI was transfered to CIA (along with OSS) not to USIS. This group's methods were so underhanded and horrifying that they caused the veteran OSS staffer's to cringe.

Hi Chris,

thanks for for the background info. I was aware of some, but not all of what you've added.

Not sure what you mean however by "I can't categorize the USIA as an agency that would be complicit with the Communist Chinese concerning advanced knowledge of the assassination of JFK." Can you elaborate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now