G. Gordon Liddy and Marathon Oil—1962 to 1963

[Ashton Gray]

I only have some sketchy information that has started taking foggy shape in the Wayback Machine on this at the moment, but it was such a head-turning curiosity to me that I felt I ought to at least get this topic started, hoping and believing that it is going to grow significantly.

G. Gordon Liddy was in the FBI from 1957 until September 1962, and prior to resigning in September 1962 had been involved in COINTELPRO. In his autobiography, "Will," he leaps from 1962 to 1965 with hardly a nod to anything in between except Too Much Information about the rhythm method, birth control pills, the Catholic religion in relation to all of that, and his crisis of faith.

Before getting into the little bit of substantive data he does let slip out, let me mention that in a sworn deposition, Liddy moved his resignation from the FBI an entire year, claiming that it was September 1963 instead of September 1962. Oh, what a difference a year makes.

When Liddy "resigned" from the FBI in September of 1962, he went to work at this father's law firm, which recently had moved from we-know-not-where to Wall Street in New York City. And one of Sylvester Liddy's clients was Marathon Oil.

Liddy is extremely cagey and vague about dates during this period. Efforts are being made to get records that will open this up, and any information that can be supplied on this by anyone will be invaluable. But here are a few interesting coincidences in time and place leading up to Liddy's pretty thoroughly unexplained "resignation" from the FBI:

• On 3 August 1962, the CIA's Louis "Jolly" West, of the Department of Psychiatry, Neurology, and Behavioral Sciences at the University of Oklahoma School of Medicine, killed an elephant with a massive dose of LSD.
  
• On 5 August 1962, Marilyn Monroe was found dead, purportedly a suicide.
  
• On 13 August 1962, a congressional hearing was held regarding Ruth Hyde Paine's brother-in-law John Lindsay Hoke, associated with the CIA front organization, Agency for International Development (AID). Ruth Hyde Paine's father, William Avery Hyde, was in some way also connected with AID (but little information can be found on his role with AID). The hearings were over financial improprieties in a project of boat development between AID and Hoffman Electronics Corporation of California under circumstances which Congressman Hardy described as "collusion."
  
• On 21 August 1962, the CIA granted an Approval for Liaison by CIA Engineering Staff with John Lindsey Hoke, who had been cleared for classified information up to and including Top Secret since 19 April 1954.
  
• On 27 August 1962, George De Mohrenschildt sent a chart of Haiti and surrounds from Port-au-Prince, Haiti, to a Mr. Raigorodsky of Dallas, Texas, marked with various claims of development DeMohrenschildt purportedly was planning. Although the chart doesn't say so, DeMohrenschildt was in league with Clemard Joseph Charles at the time.
  
• On or about 1 September 1962, G. Gordon Liddy retired from the FBI and went to work for his father's law firm on Wall Street in New York City, where he would remain, primarily, into sometime in 1965—bracketing the Kennedy assassination. And one of the accounts of the firm at the time was Marathon Oil.
  
• On Tuesday, 25 September 1962, CIA's Mrs. Van Sast called Naval Intelligence wanting to know John Lindsay Hoke's Top Secret "clearance and basis."
  
• On Tuesday, 25 September 1962, an article about John Lindsay Hoke appeared in the Washington Daily News titled "AID Official Has Wings Clipped." The article simply charged that Hoke has been alleged to have been planning to "make personal profit from" a venture for AID.
  
• On Friday, 28 September there was this CIA notation regarding Ruth Hyde Paine's brother-in-law John Lindsay Hoke: "EAB card reflects on September 28, 1962, Subject's Security Officer advised that SAC was cleared for access to classified information up to and including Top Secret."
  
• On Friday, 9 November 1962, the Assistant United States Attorney, Frederick G. Smith, quietly declined to prosecute John Lindsay Hoke, saying that the violations of federal law by Hoke were "merely of a technical nature."
  

Okay, I've just got to stop right there. Don't you love the way these scum operate? If the Hoke Joke doesn't rip open the whole squirming bag-o-maggots that is Washington, D.C. for you, check to see if your breath will fog a mirror.

Now, there's lots else going on around all of this, but these are some of the very interesting things surrounding G. Gordon Liddy's rather sudden and unexplained "resignation" from the FBI (and COINTELPRO) to go off to the Big Apple and work with Daddy Liddy on Wall Street in Daddy's law firm—which had Marathon Oil as one of its clients.

Of course, also there in New York City on Wall Street at the time was the investment firm of Train, Cabot and Assossiates—CIA front for WUSALINE and the WUBRINY operations tied to Thomas James Devine and George H.W. Bush. And it is while G. Gordon Liddy is working there on Wall Street that Clemard Joseph Charles and George DeMohrenschildt are known to have been in New York City in April 1963, including their visit to Train, Cabot, after which Clemard Joseph Charles met with vice president of Chase Manhattan Bank Jerry W. Johnston and secured a loan of $1 million dollars—as long as it was backed by the CIA front AID (who Ruth Hyde Paine's father and brother-in-law BOTH were working for at the time).

And who else was in New York City during this fertile period in 1963? James McCord, of CIA's Manhattan Field Office. In fact, there are some indications that McCord may even have been the "Special Agent In Charge" of the Manhattan Field Office.

And I'm going to leave this here at the moment, except to say that one of the offshoots of this little research investigation is a trip G. Gordon Liddy took sometime in 1963 to Ohio and trips to Washington, D.C., puportedly on the Marathon Oil account.

And while this is still being narrowed down, it's beginning to look like Liddy's little D.C. and Ohio trips very well might have coordinated awfully closely with Ruth Hyde Paine's little trip to Washington, D.C., to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and to Ohio between 24 August and 10 September 1963. And if that's not scary enough, look at this little section of timeline:

• On Thursday, 22 August 1963, the CIA again granted an Approval for Liaison with John Lindsay Hoke "on a continuing basis," reaffirming his clearance for classified information "up to and including Top Secret."
  
• Three days later, on Sunday, 24 August 1963, Ruth Hyde Paine traveled to Baltimore, Maryland, then the next day to Washington, D.C. "to stay with sister." And "sister" happens to be Sylvia Hyde Hoke—who has a CIA-blessed secret clearance from AID, and whose husband is John Lindsay Hoke.
  
• Five days later, on Thursday, 29 August 1963, Ruth Hyde Paine left the Hokes and went to Paoli, Philadelphia, just outside Philadelphia, to "wait for" her father would will join her there. Her father, of course, is William Avery Hyde, also of AID.
  
• On 10 September 1963, Ruth Hyde Paine left Paoli for Ohio to see "relatives and friends." Also in Ohio is the headquarters of Marathon Oil—where G. Gordon Liddy was afoot around this time.
  

Ashton Gray

Edited January 20, 2007 by Ashton Gray

[Ron Ecker]

On 13 August 1962, a congressional hearing was held regarding Ruth Hyde Paine's brother-in-law John Lindsay Hoke, associated with the CIA front organization, Agency for International Development (AID). Ruth Hyde Paine's father, William Avery Hyde, was in some way also connected with AID (but little information can be found on his role with AID). The hearings were over financial improprieties in a project of boat development between AID and Hoffman Electronics Corporation of California under circumstances which Congressman Hardy described as "collusion."

It's rather disconcerting to realize that I once worked with the CIA, although not as an agent (at least as far as I know). While in the Peace Corps in Peru in the 1960s, I established a small library in the community where I lived, thanks to funds from AID. And the AID folks seemed like such nice people. I suppose this is proof that the CIA, through a front company, has done something good at least once. I don't recall having to do anything in return, nor being subjected to any mind-altering drugs (other than pisco, a powerful Peruvian brandy that I often bought and administered myself).

I was also able to get a medical post started in my community through funds from a concert by the U.S. Marine Band. (The funds came through the Peace Corps office. I didn't hear this concert, and only assumed that something called the U.S. Marine Band actually existed.) I guess this means that I once had a connection, however indirect, with Naval Intelligence.

My work with the CIA and ONI was technically against Peace Corps policy, as the PC was determined not to be associated (at least officially) with intelligence agencies. Even then Peruvians would sometimes accuse PC volunteers of being American spies. My stock answer was to ask them what they had in Peru to spy on. That always stumped them. Little did I know that they were indeed being spied on, by AID.

My naivete in Peru reached its apex when in 1964 I voted by absentee ballot for Lyndon Johnson for president. (What choice did I have? Barry Goldwater was going to escalate the war in Vietnam.) I have never lived that down and never will.

[Robert Howard]

On 13 August 1962, a congressional hearing was held regarding Ruth Hyde Paine's brother-in-law John Lindsay Hoke, associated with the CIA front organization, Agency for International Development (AID). Ruth Hyde Paine's father, William Avery Hyde, was in some way also connected with AID (but little information can be found on his role with AID). The hearings were over financial improprieties in a project of boat development between AID and Hoffman Electronics Corporation of California under circumstances which Congressman Hardy described as "collusion."

It's rather disconcerting to realize that I once worked with the CIA, although not as an agent (at least as far as I know). While in the Peace Corps in Peru in the 1960s, I established a small library in the community where I lived, thanks to funds from AID. And the AID folks seemed like such nice people. I suppose this is proof that the CIA, through a front company, has done something good at least once. I don't recall having to do anything in return, nor being subjected to any mind-altering drugs (other than pisco, a powerful Peruvian brandy that I often bought and administered myself).

I was also able to get a medical post started in my community through funds from a concert by the U.S. Marine Band. (The funds came through the Peace Corps office. I didn't hear this concert, and only assumed that something called the U.S. Marine Band actually existed.) I guess this means that I once had a connection, however indirect, with Naval Intelligence.

My work with the CIA and ONI was technically against Peace Corps policy, as the PC was determined not to be associated (at least officially) with intelligence agencies. Even then Peruvians would sometimes accuse PC volunteers of being American spies. My stock answer was to ask them what they had in Peru to spy on. That always stumped them. Little did I know that they were indeed being spied on, by AID.

My naivete in Peru reached its apex when in 1964 I voted by absentee ballot for Lyndon Johnson for president. (What choice did I have? Barry Goldwater was going to escalate the war in Vietnam.) I have never lived that down and never will.

Ashton, You may find the comments posted on a thread entitled The James Schlesinger Directive of interest.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4121

Particularly this item.

We know from a Helms memo that, despite a contrary claim by historian Stephen Ambrose, Helms did temporarily order the suspension of the FBI's investigation in Mexico of funds deposited into the bank account of Bernard Barker. (9) The FBI thus called off a proposed interview in Mexico city with CIA officer George Munro. (10) Why the FBI wished to interview him is far from clear. FBI Director Gray identified Munro as the CIA Station Chief, but he was a much more minor officer. All I know about him is that he was recently identified as the CIA official in charge of the electronic intercept program which allegedly overheard Lee Harvey Oswald. (11)

[Ashton Gray]

On 13 August 1962, a congressional hearing was held regarding Ruth Hyde Paine's brother-in-law John Lindsay Hoke, associated with the CIA front organization, Agency for International Development (AID). Ruth Hyde Paine's father, William Avery Hyde, was in some way also connected with AID (but little information can be found on his role with AID). The hearings were over financial improprieties in a project of boat development between AID and Hoffman Electronics Corporation of California under circumstances which Congressman Hardy described as "collusion."

It's rather disconcerting to realize that I once worked with the CIA, although not as an agent (at least as far as I know). While in the Peace Corps in Peru in the 1960s, I established a small library in the community where I lived, thanks to funds from AID. And the AID folks seemed like such nice people. I suppose this is proof that the CIA, through a front company, has done something good at least once. I don't recall having to do anything in return, nor being subjected to any mind-altering drugs (other than pisco, a powerful Peruvian brandy that I often bought and administered myself).

I was also able to get a medical post started in my community through funds from a concert by the U.S. Marine Band. (The funds came through the Peace Corps office. I didn't hear this concert, and only assumed that something called the U.S. Marine Band actually existed.) I guess this means that I once had a connection, however indirect, with Naval Intelligence.

My work with the CIA and ONI was technically against Peace Corps policy, as the PC was determined not to be associated (at least officially) with intelligence agencies. Even then Peruvians would sometimes accuse PC volunteers of being American spies. My stock answer was to ask them what they had in Peru to spy on. That always stumped them. Little did I know that they were indeed being spied on, by AID.

My naivete in Peru reached its apex when in 1964 I voted by absentee ballot for Lyndon Johnson for president. (What choice did I have? Barry Goldwater was going to escalate the war in Vietnam.) I have never lived that down and never will.

If good people weren't accomplishing good things through the auspices of front organizations, they would be ineffective fronts indeed.

Parasites attach themselves to extremely benign hosts.

Ashton

[Ashton Gray]

Ashton, You may find the comments posted on a thread entitled The James Schlesinger Directive of interest.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4121

Particularly this item.

We know from a Helms memo that, despite a contrary claim by historian Stephen Ambrose, Helms did temporarily order the suspension of the FBI's investigation in Mexico of funds deposited into the bank account of Bernard Barker. (9) The FBI thus called off a proposed interview in Mexico city with CIA officer George Munro. (10) Why the FBI wished to interview him is far from clear. FBI Director Gray identified Munro as the CIA Station Chief, but he was a much more minor officer. All I know about him is that he was recently identified as the CIA official in charge of the electronic intercept program which allegedly overheard Lee Harvey Oswald. (11)

Thanks, Robert.

Robert Charles-Dunne's observations are always incisive and perceptive.

The rest I fear reads like a CIA public relations pamphlet (glorifying Richard Helms, of course), starting right at the title: "The James Schlesinger Directive." The order that produced the "Family Jewels" never was anything but an op by William Colby, Vernon Walters, and fellow CIA thugs, signed off by Schlesinger as he was picking up his hat and coat on his way out the door—all, of course, only after the pinworms Helms and Gottlieb had destroyed the worst of the evidence, which would have fried all of them.

The self-authored martyred story of CIA "confessions" actually was one of the most effective cover-ups of CIA crimes ever, as I at least partially documented on forum page 5 of the thread Masters of Deceit, Propaganda, Disinformation and Corruption. No forum thread title ever was more apt, and the Colby directive (signed off by Schlesinger) was one of the masterful applications ever of deceit, propaganda, disinformation, and corruption. It saddens me to see the fiction still given so much currency in an enlightened forum, just the way the CIA wrote it for their own aggrandizement.

Ashton

Edited January 21, 2007 by Ashton Gray

[James Richards]

Three days later, on Sunday, 24 August 1963, Ruth Hyde Paine traveled to Baltimore, Maryland, then the next day to Washington, D.C. "to stay with sister." And "sister" happens to be Sylvia Hyde Hoke—who has a CIA-blessed secret clearance from AID, and whose husband is John Lindsay Hoke. (Ashton Gray)

Some interesting associations there, Ashton.

The Agency opened an official file on Sylvia Hyde Hoke in 1955. I think that would make an interesting read.

On Marathon Oil, their general counsel in 1963 was a guy named Clayton Orn, a man whose various dealings I have been checking into for some time now. He was a prolific speaker especially for the Independent Petroleum Association of America sharing the stage with the likes of Hale Boggs and Russell Long.

Do you know anything about the death in October of 1963 of a man named G. Poe who was Marathon's manager of domestic production?

Cheers,

James

[Michael Clark]

I'll give this a bump along with the Ruth Paine thread

edit**** adding this so I don't have to bump it:

"McCord worked for the Central Intelligence Agency. In 1961, and under his direction, a counter-intelligence program was launched against the Fair Play for Cuba Committee." (Wikipedia; Oswald and the CIA by John Newman p.138)

Edited July 28, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Chris Newton]

On 1/19/2007 at 11:56 PM, Ashton Gray said:

On 13 August 1962, a congressional hearing was held regarding Ruth Hyde Paine's brother-in-law John Lindsay Hoke, associated with the CIA front organization, Agency for International Development (AID). Ruth Hyde Paine's father, William Avery Hyde, was in some way also connected with AID (but little information can be found on his role with AID). The hearings were over financial improprieties in a project of boat development between AID and Hoffman Electronics Corporation of California under circumstances which Congressman Hardy described as "collusion."

interesting coincidence?

[Andrej Stancak]

On 2007-1-20 at 7:56 AM, Ashton Gray said:

Three days later, on Sunday, 24 August 1963, Ruth Hyde Paine traveled to Baltimore, Maryland, then the next day to Washington, D.C. "to stay with sister." And "sister" happens to be Sylvia Hyde Hoke—who has a CIA-blessed secret clearance from AID, and whose husband is John Lindsay Hoke.

What an interesting thread this is, and what an elaborate post by Ashton.

I do not have my notes at hand and may not remember correctly, however, did not Lee Harvey Oswald mention in one of his letters to FPCC or some other organisation that he had plans to move to Baltimore area? It would be in some letter from his New Orleans period, possibly from August. 

How did "Baltimore area" come to Lee Harvey Oswald's mind? Could it be via the Ruth Paine channel?

Edited May 10, 2017 by Andrej Stancak

[Andrej Stancak]

The reference to Oswald mentioning Baltimore which I could only partially recall is from the book: "JFK and the Unspeakable" by James W. Douglas:

Also, on September 1, Oswald wrote to the Socialist Workers Party in New York City: "Please advise me as to how can I get into direct contact with S.W.P. representatives in the Washington, D.C.-Baltimore area. I and my family are moving to that area in October".  [p. 155].

Thus, Lee Harvey Oswald mentioned Baltimore with quite a strong connotation (moving to that place with his family) only few days after Ruth Payne had visited Baltimore, Maryland and then Washington, D.C. on the next day. How could Lee Harvey Oswald come to the idea of moving to "Baltimore area" if not in reference to Ruth Paine's connections with that area. Could there initially be a plan to move Oswalds'  to Baltimore to be honed by Ruth's sister and the plan then changed to moving them to Irving/Dallas?

Edited May 10, 2017 by Andrej Stancak

[Michael Clark]

4 minutes ago, Andrej Stancak said:

The reference to Oswald mentioning Baltimore which I could only partially recall is from the book: "JFK and the Unspeakable" by James W. Douglas:

Also, on September 1, Oswald wrote to the Socialist Workers Party in New York City: "Please advise me as to how can I get into direct contact with S.W.P. representatives in the Washington, D.C.-Baltimore area. I and my family are moving to that area in October".  [p. 155].

Thus, Lee Harvey Oswald mentioned Baltimore with quite a strong connotation (moving to that place with his family) only few days after Ruth Payne had visited Baltimore, Maryland and then Washington, D.C. on the next day. How could Lee Harvey Oswald come to the idea of moving to "Baltimore area" if not in reference to Ruth Paine's connections with that area. Could there initially be a plan to move Oswalds'  to Baltimore to be honed by Ruth's sister and the plan then changed to moving them to Irving/Dallas?

That is an interesting follow-up Andrej. I believe you are being more than fair in suggesting, hinting, that a CIA or other intelligence position may have been waved under the nose of LHO by Ruth's sister, and not Ruth herself. Perhaps there was no change with the move to Dallas but maybe there was a "one last job" delay for him to do, in Dallas, before gettting a real job near Washington.

This would be a good plan for LHO. It would get him away from the Cuban's and others with whom he had interacted, down south, prior to the assassination.

[David Josephs]

[David Josephs]

And here is the letter stating his change in plans... no more Baltimore

 

What I can't find is this letter:   http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/lee-harvey-oswald-letter-to-communist-gus-hall-to-be-sold-1.6286346 

 

 

[Andrej Stancak]

7 hours ago, David Josephs said:

And here is the letter stating his change in plans... no more Baltimore

Thanks, Joseph, for locating the original letters. Would you know what was the date of the later letter in which Lee wrote about settling in Dallas? Also, what could be the word (where my dots stand) in this second letter which I cannot interpret: "in Dallas, ..... for the time" .  Could it be "just" ? This is important to understand whether Dallas was his temporary mission before eventually getting to "Baltimore area". If he understood that Dallas was only a temporary stop before getting to Baltimore, it would show that Lee Oswald's seemingly erratic steps were thoroughly planned.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Andrej Stancak

[Chris Newton]

54 minutes ago, Andrej Stancak said:

"in Dallas, ..... for the time"

Texas