Shane O'Sullivan

[Steve Rosen]

Bill, I haven't seen the dvd since it first came out, but I believe you are right: The man thought to be "Gordon Campbell" was ID'd as a Bulova employee.

I also recall James Richards posting in the JFK forum some notes about the history of Bulova and its contacts to the military community.

The other problem with the "Gordon Campbell" and "David Morales" identifications in RFK Must Die are that the individuals thought to be those persons are hanging around for an extraordinary amount of time. The men ID'd as Morales and Campbell are trudging back and forth right near news cameras for what seem like minutes. One would think that if they were in fact CIA operatives they would be more circumspect (if they stayed around at all after a murder they knew was coming or were involved with in some way).

While the "Morales Man" does seem to be nosing around the scene, I just don't think he looks much like the David Sanchez Morales that has been presented in photographs identified by family and colleagues through the efforts of researchers. I await the new Morales photo(s) that James Richards said he would present on his upcoming website for further comparison and study.

That being said, Morales' comments to his attorney Robert Walton and friend Ruben Carabal about being in LA when in his words the "little bastard" [RFK] was killed remain chilling and worthy of investigation. I applaud Shane O'Sullivan for his efforts in pursuing the Morales avenue.

Steve

Edited May 24, 2008 by Steve Rosen

[James Richards]

Bill, I haven't seen the dvd since it first came out, but I believe you are right: The man thought to be "Gordon Campbell" was ID'd as a Bulova employee.

I also recall James Richards posting in the JFK forum some notes about the history of Bulova and its contacts to the military community.

The other problem with the "Gordon Campbell" and "David Morales" identifications in RFK Must Die are that the individuals thought to be those persons are hanging around for an extraordinary amount of time. The men ID'd as Morales and Campbell are trudging back and forth right near news cameras for what seem like minutes. One would think that if they were in fact CIA operatives they would be more circumspect (if they stayed around at all after a murder they knew was coming or were involved with in some way).

While the "Morales Man" does seem to be nosing around the scene, I just don't think he looks much like the David Sanchez Morales that has been presented in photographs identified by family and colleagues through the efforts of researchers. I await the new Morales photo(s) that James Richards said he would present on his upcoming website for further comparison and study.

That being said, Morales' comments to his attorney Robert Walton and friend Ruben Carabal about being in LA when in his words the "little bastard" [RFK] was killed remain chilling and worthy of investigation. I applaud Shane O'Sullivan for his efforts in pursuing the Morales avenue.

Steve

Steve,

Yes, Bulova was a curious entity. In 1968, the chairman of Bulova was Omar Bradley. The president of the company was Harry Henshel with intel connections via army intelligence back to WW2.

Bradley was also chairman of the Bulova Research and Develpment Labs, Inc. Classified contracts included work on guided missiles.

President of the Bulova Research and Development Labs was E.K. Patterson who was also a business associate of Roy Cohn.

Executive Vice President of BRDL was Brig. Gen. Kenneth E. Fields who was also the General Manager of the Atomic Energy Commission. In 1965, LBJ appointed Fields to a commission which was to select a site for a sea-level canal between the Atlantic and Pacific. Also on this commission and friendly with Fields was R.G. Storey - the same man who accompanied Earl Warren during his visit with Jack Ruby.

Anyway, I am hoping to have the web site up and running soon. Bottom line, I do not believe that was Morales photographed at the Ambassador and I too applaude Shane in his considerable efforts.

James

[Steve Rosen]

James,

Thanks for the additional information on Bulova and its military connections. And I know many of us look forward to your website to further advance our research.

I just received Shane O'Sullivan's new book, Who Killed Bobby? The Unsolved Murder of Robert F. Kennedy. It is a massive tome at 500 plus pages with notes. It is well-documented and a good read.

Chapters 17 and 18, titled "The CIA at the Hotel" and "Chasing Shadows", detail Shane's original BBC story from 2006 and his search to clarify the identities of three men captured on video and photographed at the Ambassador Hotel that night, initially thought to possibly be CIA operatives Gordon Campbell, George E. Joannides, and David Sanchez Morales.

If you have seen Shane's movie RFK Must Die, it will not be much of surprise for you to find that after a diligent and thoughtful search, which included photo comparisons and numerous interviews with former colleagues and family members of the above-named Agency hands, Shane has backed off his original tentative assertions. He now concludes that it was most likely not Campbell, Joannides, and Morales in the photos and video he presented in his reporting and film.

The "Gordon Campbell" individual was a man named Michael D. Roman, and the "George Joannides" individual was Frank S. Owen, both Bulova watch salesman. Shane details the history of Bulova, and interviews family members of Roman before writing that Roman and Owen were in all probability misidentified as Campbell and Joannides.

It should be noted: Bradley A. Ayers insists that Michael D. Roman was a dead ringer for the man he knew from JM/WAVE as "Gordon Campbell" (even though others said Campbell died in 1962, before Ayers arrived); Ed Lopez and Dan Hardaway both said Owen looked like Joannides; and Tom Polgar said that the photo of Owens was "not incompatible" with Joannides.

The book contains new information on Dave Morales that will be of interest to you and other researchers. There are plenty of remembrances from friends and family, brushstrokes that help paint a fuller picture of El Indio and his infamous self-incrimination.

Steve

Edited May 25, 2008 by Steve Rosen

[James Richards]

James,

Thanks for the additional information on Bulova and its military connections. And I know many of us look forward to your website to further advance our research.

I just received Shane O'Sullivan's new book, Who Killed Bobby? The Unsolved Murder of Robert F. Kennedy. It is a massive tome at 500 plus pages with notes. It is well-documented and a good read.

Chapters 17 and 18, titled "The CIA at the Hotel" and "Chasing Shadows", detail Shane's original BBC story from 2006 and his search to clarify the identities of three men captured on video and photographed at the Ambassador Hotel that night, initially thought to possibly be CIA operatives Gordon Campbell, George E. Joannides, and David Sanchez Morales.

If you have seen Shane's movie RFK Must Die, it will not be much of surprise for you to find that after a diligent and thoughtful search, which included photo comparisons and numerous interviews with former colleagues and family members of the above-named Agency hands, Shane has backed off his original tentative assertions. He now concludes that it was most likely not Campbell, Joannides, and Morales in the photos and video he presented in his reporting and film.

The "Gordon Campbell" individual was a man named Michael D. Roman, and the "George Joannides" individual was Frank S. Owen, both Bulova watch salesman. Shane details the history of Bulova, and interviews family members of Roman before writing that Roman and Owen were in all probability misidentified as Campbell and Joannides.

It should be noted: Bradley A. Ayers insists that Michael D. Roman was a dead ringer for the man he knew from JM/WAVE as "Gordon Campbell" (even though others said Campbell died in 1962, before Ayers arrived); Ed Lopez and Dan Hardaway both said Owen looked like Joannides; and Tom Polgar said that the photo of Owens was "not incompatible" with Joannides.

The book contains new information on Dave Morales that will be of interest to you and other researchers. There are plenty of remembrances from friends and family, brushstrokes that help paint a fuller picture of El Indio and his infamous self-incrimination.

Steve

Steve,

Yes, I did see Shane's documentary which I thought was skillfully constructed and a very well balanced presentation.

I have not read Shane's book but look forward to doing so.

Many years ago, I did speak with several people who knew Morales from his school years and from the 'neighborhood'. One particular gentlemen is still owed a small sum of money from 'Didi'. I don't like his chances of getting it back.

Also, two brothers who were well acquainted with Morales shared some interesting stories - nothing that tied him to the dramatic events of 1963 and 1968, but curious impressions and anecdotes.

James

[Steve Rosen]

James,

I think you'll find Shane's book very informative. Several people seem to think Mr. Zamka was prone to braggadocio and maybe exaggeration.

There is an interesting retelling of Morales' involvement in taking out a radio tower in the Dominican Republic by Ed Wilson. Wilson says Morales rowed ashore, dressed up as "Doctor Mendes", claimed he was there to see patients, and then ... bang and boom, no tower.

Any anecdotes or stories that the brothers told you that you can relay here?

Steve

[James Richards]

James,

I think you'll find Shane's book very informative. Several people seem to think Mr. Zamka was prone to braggadocio and maybe exaggeration.

There is an interesting retelling of Morales' involvement in taking out a radio tower in the Dominican Republic by Ed Wilson. Wilson says Morales rowed ashore, dressed up as "Doctor Mendes", claimed he was there to see patients, and then ... bang and boom, no tower.

Any anecdotes or stories that the brothers told you that you can relay here?

Steve

Steve,

The stories mainly involved the power and influence Morales would wield during his visits to Arizona. He had personal relationships with many prominent folk including the police chief. Doors would open and the gratuities would flow.

There was also the so-called inside word on business opportunities in Latin America that some of his friends took advantage of.

James

[Shane O'Sullivan]

Steve and James,

Thanks very much for your feedback. A lot of long nights and early mornings went into the book, so I hope you enjoy it. I've just put up a website here, with the table of contents and introduction: Who Killed Bobby?

I'm also looking forward to getting more US reaction on the film. There are new dates at the Roxie in San Francisco on June 3rd and at the Farmers and Merchants Building in downtown Los Angeles on the 4th. I'll be there both nights, so it'd be great to see some of you if you can make it. Full details at the film site: RFK Must Die

Best,

Shane

[Steve Rosen]

Shane,

Good to see you back here. Thank you for your tremendous efforts. You really are to be commended for pushing this case back into the public eye through your perceptive and penetrating film, in-depth book, and now the website. Excellent work.

I hope you'll consider a Philadelphia or D.C. showing of RFK Must Die. I'm sure there are East Coast board members who will make the trek (Philly's up the road from me). I realize your travel opportunities might be limited coming from across the pond.

Can you tell us any stories about Dave Morales relayed by Tom Clines? Did Clines confirm Ed Wilson's story of Morales blowing up a radio tower in the Dominican Republic circa 1965? In your book you said Clines dismissed Morales' confessional rant as bullxxxx, but there was little else from Clines. Any expansion in that area is appreciated.

Congrats,

Steve

Edited May 27, 2008 by Steve Rosen

[Shane O'Sullivan]

Thanks very much, Steve. I really appreciate your feedback. It's great to hear my mountainous files have been put to good use. I decided to focus on California for the screenings as that's where the power is to reopen the case. Luckily, a cinema in New York also liked the film, so the week at the Pioneer is wonderful. There'll be a feature on the film in the NY Daily News this Sunday and I hope the release will go some way to bringing the East Coast media up to speed on the unresolved issues.

Ed Wilson let me audio-tape our conversation, that's why my account of our meeting is more detailed. The meeting with Clines was pretty much as I describe in the book. Not a lot of new detail. I was circling, waiting to bring up the Ambassador footage. He was a bit wary, wondering why I was really there or already briefed on why I was there. Clines brought his business partner Derek, who worked with him in Central America in the eighties. Derek told tales of staking out a hotel lobby with 19 operatives, each blending into the furniture. I told Clines I wanted to talk about the Secret War (on Castro) and he asked "Which one?' and burst out laughing. An impenetrable guy but fair play to him for meeting me.

[Gene Kelly]

Shane:

Your book is excellent... it gave me some new (fresh) investigative insights that are not common knowledge, plus good food for critical thought. I am 2/3rds through it, and its very informative building on past work by Melanson, Klaber, Kaiser et al. I am struck by the role of Ambassador security (especially Gardner and his interaction with ACE security) as well as the hypnotic exams given to Sirhan in jail. You spur interest in a key question... how was RFK led into the 'killing zone" by a last-minute change in exit route, and were there 'insiders' or traitors associated with the Kennedy camp. Your treatment of the compromised Sirhan defense team was thoughtful, and I appreciated additonal expose of the biased (and Agency-influenced) LAPD Pena and Hernandez. I recognize its tough to tread into the necessary (but difficult) black waters of Morales, and his possible presence at the Ambassador... but in spite of the conflicting opinions and observations of the film, I remain convinced that the hand of Morales is present (literally). It will be interesting to compare your work with what Larry Hancock is doing on the Mary Ferrell website. Well done! - gene kelly

[Shane O'Sullivan]

Gene,

Thanks very much for your feedback. I agree the Ambassador head of security William F. Gardner is an intriguing figure who hasn't really been covered before. There are so many contradictions in his FBI interviews and if there was anyone pulling strings backstage, he strikes me as a key figure who was never properly questioned. But I find it hard to believe there was a Judas in the Kennedy camp, given the agonised look on the faces of his aides in the pantry, so how RFK was manipulated into the "killing zone" still eludes me.

As for Ace Guard Service: after his very candid interview with Betsy Langman, I don't suspect Frank Hendrix, the Ace owner, but I find it very curious that nobody seems to have ever spoken to Tom Spangler, Thane Eugene Cesar's contact at Ace and the man who summoned Cesar to the Ambassador that night.

I'm also keeping Morales in the frame. There may be another twist to his story yet. Enjoy the rest of the book. When I was in the US last month, I interviewed Phil Van Praag about the new audio evidence. The resulting 7-minute update to my film will be screening on the Documentary Channel and online soon.

Best,

Shane

[Gene Kelly]

Shane:

I'm intrigued by what seasoned operatives have to say about a how such an event would be designed, especially luring RFK into the pantry. The interaction of Cesar with Gardner is of interest. Gardner's suicide a year or so later is sinister. The Polka Dot girl almost seems too contrived... another obvious distraction, being intentionally seen (and heard) by many witnesses, both before and after. As Larry Hancock has surmised, hardly the behavior of a professional. There had to have been several teams in place that night, contingencies for the possible paths Bobby would take after the speech. The scene was secured quickly, and evidence was controlled... similar to Dealey Plaza five years earlier. Another impression I have from reading your work is that LA was picked for many reasons (in advance) with pre-staged police accomplices, attorneys and investigators, phony coroner assistants etc. The entire response, investigation and trial were rigged comprehensively from the start. And within one year, key volumes of evidence were destroyed well in advance of any appeals. I have a number of strong impressions I want to share with you, now that I've finished your book, including the strange behavior of Sirhan's brothers (who must have known what he was doing in the preceding months) with the authorities... I'd think Sirhan's whereabouts in the previous year would be cataloged in brute detail (like Oswald). Curious that all we get is the simple 'white fog" excuse. Tom Rathke, Jerry Owen and Dr. Bryan seemed to disappear from public scrutiny after 1975. Also, Sirhan's ranting/ravings in captivity remind one of Jack Ruby... spontaneous tears at the mention of Israel and bombers, strong anti-semitic overtones (that don't really fit the mild-mannered Christian Sirhan), suggestion of the hero role... essentially painting him with a persona that mirrors the phony motive. Your book is excellent work and a nice read.

Gene

[Shane O'Sullivan]

Gene: Thanks for your kind words. Those operatives certainly see the pantry as the perfect "killing zone" - so narrow and crowded it seems a second gunman could operate without detection. Gardner is the most interesting figure for me in manipulating Kennedy into the pantry or being a source of inside information for the bad guys. His proximity to Cesar in the backstage hallway before Kennedy left the stage is troubling. And there does seem to be a pattern in the dishonest or incompetent LAPD officers, attorneys and phony coroner's assistants who later worked on the case.

I know Larry has his doubts about Sirhan's brothers but I can't say I share those. According to Sirhan's family, he spent every night in the year before the assassination at home. But he would spend his days alone, going to the racetrack or to the library, with no regular friends really monitoring his whereabouts. According to Dr. Spiegel, an hour or so each day for a couple of months with a programmer would be enough to direct Sirhan towards Kennedy, so I don't believe he disappeared for months, I think the programming was done right there in Los Angeles. And Bill Turner's book shows Dr. Bryan to be a leading candidate for the programmer. The Ruby parallels are indeed very interesting.

[Gene Kelly]

Shane: Gardner's suicide a year later is very troubling; seems like a strong cuase/effect, way too much of a coincidence to be unrelated. If anyone had the wherewithall to arrange for insiders, strategic ACE guard placement, advance logistics, coverage of certain doors and rooms, access for several shooter teams, egress for post-event escape, then it was most certainly Mr. Gardner. Yet there's nothing much written about him, nor did LAPD inteview him... and he's the man in charge of hotel security! I would love to study his background, and his 'movements/life in the years prior to and after the murder. I think I read somewhere (maybe Larry's 6-part piece) that another detective in charge of LAPD dignitary protection was "cruising the area" and had a 'premonition' that something would happen (as a lame pretext for being at the hotel). Then he reappears 20 years later with an apparent sting on Teeter and Lynn Mangan and then an offer to tell what 'really happened' for a $20k fee. I have also formed an opinion that the polka dot girl was obviously real, but way too obvious, and as such was an intentional distraction (along with her alleged accomplices) for the real professionals to do their lethal work... do you share that view? What additonal followup do you have planned, and who would you continue to hone in on (besides Morales) as a person of interest? This RFK case now holds as much inerest for me as JFK, maybe more, thanks to your book. Regards - gene

[Shane O'Sullivan]

Shane: Gardner's suicide a year later is very troubling; seems like a strong cuase/effect, way too much of a coincidence to be unrelated. If anyone had the wherewithall to arrange for insiders, strategic ACE guard placement, advance logistics, coverage of certain doors and rooms, access for several shooter teams, egress for post-event escape, then it was most certainly Mr. Gardner. Yet there's nothing much written about him, nor did LAPD inteview him... and he's the man in charge of hotel security! I would love to study his background, and his 'movements/life in the years prior to and after the murder. I think I read somewhere (maybe Larry's 6-part piece) that another detective in charge of LAPD dignitary protection was "cruising the area" and had a 'premonition' that something would happen (as a lame pretext for being at the hotel). Then he reappears 20 years later with an apparent sting on Teeter and Lynn Mangan and then an offer to tell what 'really happened' for a $20k fee. I have also formed an opinion that the polka dot girl was obviously real, but way too obvious, and as such was an intentional distraction (along with her alleged accomplices) for the real professionals to do their lethal work... do you share that view? What additonal followup do you have planned, and who would you continue to hone in on (besides Morales) as a person of interest? This RFK case now holds as much inerest for me as JFK, maybe more, thanks to your book. Regards - gene

Thanks, Gene. I think you hone in on two potentially very important characters here that have long been overlooked. I agree Gardner could well be the "missing link" in all this but I can find no other information on him apart from the contradictory FBI interviews. He was a retired LAPD lieutenant and within months of the shooting, he left the Ambassador to go to law school. Soon after that, he apparently committed suicide and nobody at the Ambassador would talk about it. Unfortunately, most of the hotel guards who worked with him are now dead or don't want to talk. The LAPD officer in charge of VIP protection was Jean M. Scherrer - I tell those stories in the book, quoting from what he told C. David Heymann. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find Scherrer either.

I believe Serrano and Di Pierro probably saw the same girl and I believe Serrano's account of what the girl said but there's no denying it's bizarre behaviour for a co-conspirator. She may well have been a decoy, it's hard to say. I think following through on the audio evidence is the best way forward. Paul Schrade and Sirhan's attorney William Pepper are now very active in the case, pursuing legal channels re a second gun and Sirhan's programming.

Pepper plans to pursue a civil trial, as he successfully did in the King case. I'll help that process as much as I can, to put all this evidence on the record, in as uncluttered, accurate and credible manner as possible. So stay tuned!