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Ps Bill, if Jimmy Burt said he saw Tippit roll down the front passenger window (maybe partway?), I think Burt may have been only a car length away and therefore that witness claim is of interest. I would not automatically assume it was wrong. In that case I could imagine Tippit normally driving with that window up, lowering it partway to be able to hear what the man flagging him down wanted to tell or ask him, then rolling it back up the partway again before getting out of the vehicle on the drivers side. It would be plausible behavior it seems to me. I just was not aware until your mention that Jimmy Burt had claimed to witness that if what you say is right.

You're welcome. Sorry but I'm probably going to drop out of this thread. Not for lack of interest, but I have a bad feeling about incurring a major misconduct penalty for lèse-majesté. BTW been meaning to tell you I cannot locate the McMahon links you referenced a few weeks ago. I neither have a Twitter account nor participate in any form of social media. In the meantime Bagley's Spy Wars held me spellbound.

You are playing games, citing evidence inaccessible to anyone, and not lifting a finger to make it available and can’t be bothered even to make a civil private reply to my private inquiry. If you are going to cite evidence you keep hidden in your vest pocket that no one else is allowed to see, I am asking for an exact quote (with any sentence or so relevant surrounding context exact quote too). I am not saying you’ve misremembered or are paraphrasing wrong. I just like to verify fact claims I’ve never heard before. I check footnotes, and you’re not giving one that can be checked; why? Are you more interested in winning arguments by withholding access to secret evidence, than in discussion where both sides may learn something from one another?

Another bloodbath for Trump's stock today; Forbes editor says it could go to zero: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/forbes-editor-predicts-where-truth-121905169.html

Oh man I apologize Kevin! I meant the question to Bertolino.

Does anyone know what time Cecil McWatters bus cleared the post-assassination traffic jam and made it to Gloco and on to Jefferson & Marsalis? It had to be at least 15 minutes behind schedule.

How did you ever get that idea? I was rebutting Richard Bertolino’s claims about Kantor. I have no reason to doubt that Kantor is sincere.

I tried that this morning even though my car, as all other modern vehicles, doesn’t have vents. I didn’t have a problem keeping my balance. I could see where someone very tall, heavy or old might have difficulty. But Oswald was none of these. The Tatum claim that he had his hands in his pockets makes sense if he thought he might need his handgun in a hurry as well as to prevent Tippit from detecting the outline of a gun in the pocket. Someone being questioned by a cop might be inclined to be respectful to catch a break by not leaning on the car. On the other hand, if the Tippit killing was pre-arranged, the killer would likely be careful about not leaving fingerprints.

Asked, at the hearings, to put an "X" on a map (CE 371) to indicate where he left off Oswald, Whaley marks a big "X" on the intersection of N. Beckley and Neches/El Dorado/Zangs, different names for a street which is actually continuous. And in the video, he calls that intersection the 500 block. Oswald threw him off when he changed destinations and said "This will do fine"--at the 1000 block, when he saw that the coast was clear...

"Where did Jimmy Burt say that? Reference, quote?" In the 1968 interview with Al Chapman, Burt said Tippit reached over and rolled his window down. Of course, we know the window was up when seen in the crime scene photos. If Burt was wrong about Tippit physically reaching over and rolling the window down., then why can't Burt also be wrong about the killer physically placing his hands on the patrol car? Why is automatic that the killer placed his hands on the car? The answer is that is NOT automatic that the killer physically placed his hands on the car.

Oh boy. Do you not understand the difference between leaning on the car and placing your hands on the car? My point, which I was very clear about, is that the killer could have indeed leaned on the car (forearms, elbows) and Markham made the mistaken assumption that the killer placed his hands on the car. Incidentally, Jack Tatum drove by the scene and said the killer had his hands in his jacket pockets as he leaned forward to talk to Tippit.

It's on the record, all the same. Here and elsewhere, and will, in due time, not far from now, be disclosed. Thank you, however.

Matt, not likely this complicated topic will receive the careful analysis you contemplate from pontificators who refuse to study the source material. Yet malice never was his aim; He lashed the vice, but spared the name; No individual could resent Where thousands equally were meant.

Richard Gilbride posted a valuable essay, Mistaken Identity, at his website (https://jfkinsidejob.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/MISTAKEN-IDENTITY.pdf). He announced it at Deep Politics Forum. The essay explores a Harvey & Lee theme proposed by William Torbitt II in Mistaken Identity: What the Warren Commission Did Not Want You To Know, published in 2016. The book is listed as unavailable at Amazon, which comes as no surprise. The publisher, Infinity Publishing, fell apart last year. Richard's review is also worth reading.

Let us examine what exactly Seth Kantor's said in his Warren Commission testimony taken on June 2nd, 1964, that the Commission used to determine that Kantor was most likely confused about meeting Jack Ruby at Parkland at approximate 1:30 PM on 11,22,1963 and that in their final finding they stated this meeting did not happen. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, can you tell us what happened when you saw Ruby--when you encountered Ruby at Parkland Hospital, what the encounter consisted of? Mr. KANTOR. Yes; I apparently walked right past him, because the first I was aware of Jack Ruby was that as I was walking, I was stopped momentarily by a tug on the back of my jacket. And I turned and saw Jack Ruby standing there. He had his hand extended. I very well remember my first thought. I thought, well, there is Jack Ruby. I had been away from Dallas 18 months and 1 day at that time, but it seemed just perfectly normal to see Jack Ruby standing there, because he was a known goer to events. And I had my mind full of many things. My next reaction was to just turn and continue on my way. But he did have his hand out. And I took his hand and shook hands with him. He called me by name. And I said hello to him, I said, "Hello, Jack," I guess. And he said, "Isn't this a terrible thing?" I said, "Yes"; but I also knew it was no time for small talk, and I was most anxious to continue on up the stairway, because I was standing right at the base of the stairway. Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you inside the building or outside? Mr. KANTOR. I was inside the building, just immediately inside the building. Mr. GRIFFIN. Were the doors guarded? Mr. KANTOR. If there was a guard on the door, I don't recall seeing one. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, you do recall, however, that there was a guard at the entrance to the emergency area? Mr. KANTOR. There was at least one guard, yes--when I first got there. Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Go ahead. Mr. KANTOR. A Dallas policeman. I am not sure how many Secret Service men or other guards there were. But I do remember this one man, because he let me in. At any rate, Jack Ruby said, "Isn't this a terrible thing," or words to that effect. I agreed with him that it was. And he said--and he had quite a look of consternation on his face. He looked emotional---which also seemed fitting enough for Jack Ruby. But he asked me, curiously enough, he said, "Should I close my places for the next 3 nights, do you think?" And I said, "Yes, I think that is a good idea." And I excused myself. And he said he understood, and I went on. And that was the sum total of it. Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me ask you this: At the time you were out at Parkland 80 Hospital, did you see any other press representatives whom you had remembered from your days in Dallas, who worked in Dallas? Mr. KANTOR. I didn't see any outside. However, by the time Kilduff made his announcement at 1:30, there were newsmen coming in from all over whom I recognized. And because of this weird situation, unreal situation, I didn't speak to any then. During the next hour or so that I was in the hospital I saw a number of news people from both Dallas and Fort Worth who I at least said hello to, who I know. Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember if there were any people from the Dallas Morning News that you saw at Parkland Hospital, either reporters or photographers? Mr. KANTOR. I can tell you who I remember seeing, and I don't think I recall seeing a Dallas Morning News person at all until I got to the police station later that afternoon. Mr. GRIFFIN. You are going to tell me who you remember seeing from the Dallas papers at Parkland Hospital, or just who you generally remember seeing during those 3 days. Mr. KANTOR. I can tell you who I can remember seeing in the makeshift press headquarters from Dallas and Fort Worth. Mr. GRIFFIN. At Parkland? Mr. KANTOR. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. But I take it you don't remember anybody from the Morning News? Mr. KANTOR. I don't recall anyone from the Dallas Morning News, no, as a matter of fact. Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. How far is the Morning News Building in Dallas from the Times Herald Building? Mr. KANTOR. The better part of a mile. Mr. GRIFFIN. When you saw Ruby, did you notice anybody with him? Did he seem to be with anybody? Mr. KANTOR. He didn't seem to be with anybody. The only other people I noticed in this area--as I say, it seemed like a small entranceway, and it was just a very few steps to the stairway--were these people who appeared to be hospital attendants. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you recall if at the time you were at Parkland Hospital there were television cameras setup outside the main entranceway? Mr. KANTOR. No. I was told later on that various people around the country who I know saw me on television as I came out to talk to the Congressmen before they went out to Love Field, and I was not aware of any cameras. Mr. GRIFFIN. But it is your best impression that you were shown on TV? Mr. KANTOR. Well, I have been told that. Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you any idea what TV networks you appeared on? Mr. KANTOR. No, sir; none. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now-- Mr. KANTOR. This happened frequently, incidentally, over the weekend, also, in the police station as well. I don't know--I guess all the networks were involved at one point or another, but I don't know when or where. Mr. GRIFFIN. In ,the first report that you made of this encounter with Ruby, you reported that you saw him before you went to the press conference. Mr. KANTOR. That is right. Mr. GRIFFIN. And now as I understand your testimony, you are not sure whether it was before or after. Mr. KANTOR. Yes; and the thing that gave me pause was that Jack Ruby had specifically said to me, or asked me my opinion about closing his places for three nights, and it occurred to me later on that no announcement of the President's death had been made. as I was following Kilduff up the stairway, at 1:30, whereas at approximately 2 o'clock it had been made. Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you try to focus on your state of mind at the time that you first wrote your newspaper article about this, and reported that it was before the press conference. What was it at that time that made you think that you saw Ruby before the press conference? 81 Mr. KANTOR. To be honest, with all the events crowded into that weekend, I don't think that I recalled the significance of my second brief trip out of the hospital to the main entranceway in front of the hospital, and then back in again. It was a very fast trip. And I think it was just a failure on my part to remember the second incident. Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. As you were going back into the hospital the second time, where were you going? Mr. KANTOR. I was returning to the makeshift press headquarters in the classroom, on the second floor. Mr. GRIFFIN. As you were entering that building, did you have any expectation that there was something important going on at that pressroom that you ought to get to right away? Mr. KANTOR. Well, I didn't know. I knew that I was not going with this pool group, and that my people in Washington were interested in knowing the logistics of the U.S. Government at that moment, where Lyndon Johnson was going and what was going to happen, and were we remaining in Dallas, and John Connally's condition, and everything at once. And this seemed to be the logical place to get whatever information there was, because information was very scanty. Mr. GRIFFIN. What I want to get at is whether your concern or apprehension about getting into the building was any greater as you went in before the press conference than it was when you returned after the press conference. Mr. KANTOR. No; I would I say this was a consistent feeling. Mr. GRIFFIN. So that your reluctance to stop and talk with Ruby when you saw him wouldn't have been any greater at one time than at another? Mr. KANTOR. Oh, no. I saw really a number of close friends on the second floor of the hospital, newspapermen who I had known intimately, been to their house, and they had been to my house quite often. And we still didn't indulge in anything resembling small talk. Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, do you have any question in your mind that you did see Ruby out at Parkland Hospital? Mr. KANTOR. >>> If it was a matter of just seeing him, I would have long ago been full of doubt. But I did talk to the man, and he did stop me, and I just can't have any doubt about that. <<< Mr. GRIFFIN. Now--- Mr. KANTOR. As a matter of fact, I didn't give it much thought, or any thought, perhaps, again, concrete thought at least, until the following night, Saturday night, when things quieted down enough so that I could take a walk in downtown Dallas, somewhere around 10 o'clock in the evening. And I passed by Ruby's place, the Carousel, and saw a sign on the door stating that it was closed. And I recalled this weird conversation I had had with him at the hospital. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now-- Mr. KANTOR. Excuse me because a man named Barney Weinstein, who operates a strip joint a couple of doors away, had his place open. Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you first think about this again after Saturday? Mr. KANTOR. Well, I understood later on that Jack Ruby had been in the assembly room in the basement of the Dallas Police Station after midnight on Friday going into Saturday. I didn't see him at that time. I was in that room. It was a very crowded room. But I thought about our conversation on Saturday when I passed by his place. And earlier Saturday evening I thought of Jack Ruby because meat sandwiches, beef sandwiches, I believe they were, had shown up in the pressroom of the Dallas Police Station, and I heard someone remark that Jack Ruby had brought them in. I didn't see him then, either. Mr. GRIFFIN. You heard this while you were at the police station? Mr. KANTOR. Yes; Well, I was going in the room to get a sandwich, and they were gone, they were gone very rapidly. I heard someone either specifically say it to me or I heard someone specifically saying, to someone else that Jack Ruby was the person that brought these in. Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that Friday afternoon or late Friday evening, or in the middle of Friday? 82 Mr. KANTOR. I am not sure now. It seems to me that it was Saturday. It seems to me that it was Saturday, late afternoon. Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, when, after you walked down Commerce Street on Saturday night did you next think about your encounter with Ruby at Parkland Hospital? Mr. KANTOR. Well, having walked past his place, and having seen that it was closed, I don't know whether I gave it any more thought. Mr. GRIFFIN. I mean after that, when was the next time you thought about it? Mr. KANTOR. The next time was just moments after 11:21 a.m., Sunday morning, when I discovered that Jack Ruby had shot Oswald.

This is my latest interview about the book The JFK Assassination Chokeholds, plus the fate of the last classified records on the case still being withheld. Andrew Eiler wrote about that in the book so that is why it was brought up, in fact the book is the only one I know that deals with the latest info on the topic. I thought the interview turned out well, and Bruce put it on Rumble, so it will not be suppressed. Its a good one. https://rumble.com/v4ps0ei-reality-with-bruce-de-torres-11.-james-dieugenio.html

Would you care to say why you think journalist Kantor “worked for the murderers”? Do you have some reason to support that?

“Hit List” and its predecessor “Dead Wrong” are in my local library. I will have to look at them.

Exactly right, KIrk. Tillerson, Mattis, and McMaster all wanted Trump to uphold the Iranian Nuclear Disarmament Treaty. As I recall, even some Mossad and IDF leaders believed, at the time, that the Iran treaty was in Israel's best interests. Netanyahu never did. When Tillerson, Mattis, and McMaster quit the Trump administration, they were replaced by Iran war hawks, including Pompeo and John Bolton. Then the Orange Mar-a-Lago Boobie withdrew from the Iran treaty and destabilized the entire region. As the authors pointed out, Trump didn't even know who Brian Hook was, during his meeting with Macron. (Hook was the Trump administration's own guy in charge of revising-- and preserving-- the Iran treaty.) As for Biden, IMO, he should have followed Obama's lead, from the start, in dealing with Netanyahu and the Likudniks. During Obama's presidency, Biden had privately told the Israelis that he was "their best friend" in Washington. Paul Rigby posted an interesting article on one of the JFK and Gaza threads about Biden's history with Israel. Now, if I understand the latest news, Biden has, essentially, announced that bombing Iran is up to Bibi-- but that the U.S. will not get involved in an Israeli war with Iran. I'm not a foreign policy expert, but this doesn't make sense to me. For one thing, Tehran is aligned with Moscow. Is Biden passively acquiescing to a wider regional war-- with potential Russian involvement?

Actually, Kevin, the actuarial stats for these JFK witness murders indicates that it is astronomically improbable that they would have occurred by mere chance, when they occurred. That statistical data is reviewed at the beginning of Hit List. But, beyond the astronomical improbabilities, the forensic data about the murders is extremely damning. If people are interested in the subject, they should ignore the internet "spin" and study the facts in the book.

Going back to Ruby’s statement about his motive for killing Oswald, was the choice of Lyndon Johnson as VP an insurance policy from the very beginning? Is there a reliable account on how that came to be? Caro? Theodore White?

I don’t. I was arguing against the claim that he was.

The problem with these “hit list” claims is that even if every member of the list died of natural causes at the exact year of their life expectancy, the result would result in a very low probability overall. There are a large number of possible outcomes for a collection of people, each one with a very small probability of occurring. Humans are not very good at incorporating low probabilities in their thinking.

W. I gleaned your very good article in the Political Discussions forum . It does seem like the one issue where I would have preferred Obama as President over Biden is the Israel Hamas War. As Obama was rightfully opposing Netanyahu and it almost appears that Biden started out using "atonement" with Bibi for Obama's sins for offending him! Obviously Bibi was very upset at Obama's peace accords with Iran and was very happy when Trump came in and pulled every lever with Trump to make sure he destroyed it. Of course, when Bibi came to Washington, he completely bypassed and snubbed meeting Obama and talked directly and wooed favor from the Republican Congress, who love him! Hey, I'm for decreased U.S. Defense expenditures. But there seems to be a sort of myopic projection back to the 60's here about the current U.S. military establishment. Correct me where I'm wrong, but from what I gleaned, it's worth mentioning that all of Trump's first cabinet military leaders were very much in favor of keeping the Iran peace initiatives as well as the MIC (Rex Tillerson), until Trump replaced them and Mike Pompeo, a known Iran hawk, became Trump's Secretary of State. I think the world, at this time would be at least a little closer to Peace if we had better relations with Iran,. though I don't claim to know the ins and outs of the Iran Peace initiative. I know the Iranians were hoping to start it up again when Trump left office. But Biden's put a lot more conditions on it and it failed, to Bibi's delight! Why do you think Biden jettisoned it?

Why do you think he was an FBI asset?