Robin Unger Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 From Gary Mack re: Darnell filmNBC took the original Wiegman and Darnell films from the Dallas NBC affiliate to New York following the assassination weekend. Whether the network still has the original Darnell film is unknown, but as a former employee I know the affiliate does not have it or a copy. Nor does Jimmy Darnell.Fortunately, a first-generation 16mm copy print was made in Dallas over that weekend and it is in the Museum's collection; however, the Museum cannot do anything with it until copyright issues are resolved. It'll happen, and sooner rather than later.The 16mm Darnell print in the Museum's collection was the source film for what's seen in the "JFK" movie. The Blu-ray version is currently the best quality copy available, as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) http://www76.zippyshare.com/v/O9VT35mr/file.html The Weigman gif is a 2frame/4second differential,time lapse. PM appears to be filming/photographing and then stops. Lovelady appears to take at least one step down. chris Very nice Chris some speculation. He is raising his arms, so he is possibly drinking coffee out of a cup or eating a sandwich ( it was lunchtime ) or he is snapping a photo Edited April 7, 2015 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) Okay, I found the FBI report for Billy Lovelady. It lists his height at the bottom but, damn these old typewriters, it's hard to make out the second number. It does appear, though, that his height was 5'8". I compared the "8" to other numbers on the report, and it does not look like a "6" or a "9" or a "3". If Oswald was 5'9", there is a problem here, as Lovelady definitely appears to be taller than PM in the Wiegman gif. posted by Chris. Coincidentally, the top step is precisely where Lovelady said he was in his WC testimony. "Mr. BALL - Draw an arrow down to that; do it in the dark. You got an arrow in the dark and one in the white pointing toward you. Where were you when the picture was taken? Mr. LOVELADY - Right there at the entrance of the building standing on the the step, would be here (indicating).Mr. BALL - You were standing on which step?Mr. LOVELADY - It would be your top level.Mr. BALL - The top step you were standing there?Mr. LOVELADY - Right." Edited April 7, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Whoa! Here's a little gem I just discovered, though I don't doubt some of you already knew this. Billy Lovelady died in January, 1979, during the HSCA hearings, just a month shy of his 42nd birthday. Cause of death is said to be "complications from a heart attack". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) Hi David Except that PM is standing right behind where the TSBD door opens and anyone going into the TSBD would have been staring him right in the face as they opened the door. If he was a stranger on the day of the assassination don't you think he would have stood out? Most of the TSBD employees are specifically asked, and specifically deny, seeing any strangers around the TSBD that day in their WC testimony and affividavits. Hi VL... A test - walk around your office on a different floor than usual... or a cafe you've had lunch at a few times... no assassination, no traumatic experience. Give it a week. do you supposed you could tell me if you saw someone you barely knew standing by an elevator or door who is now accused of assassination of the president... the story out is this person was on the 6th floor firing a rifle and killing the president. Do you suppose you could say with certainty that this person was someone you walked past as you were scrambling to your office to get your stuff to go home and tell everyone what you witnessed? He has little if any identifying marks... he looks like Lovelady and a handful of other people you might walk by in the course of your day... our hindsight makes us assume these people would be looking for him.... they wouldn't be... he was a quiet nobody who had been there about a month, and a lowly grunt at that. I just dont think he would be remembered so that someone would say, no - he was on the steps outside - to the FBI... and contradict the authorities. It's hard for us to think that way since we are so overly familiar with the details - we live them daily and we didn't experience it first hand. Just another POV to consider DJ added: and those little clauses in their statements that say the witness did not see Oswald after 11:50 or so is not something anyone would question... Every once in a while you have to look at it as if you know nothing about the case... Witnesses over time recall the strangest things... the details of which can easily be guided by professionals to conclude whatever was needed IMO Edited April 7, 2015 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Thanks for your response David. Except that what we are talking about here is the Kennedy assassination where everyone in the world who was alive on that day can remember exactly where they were and what they were doing when they heard the news. So I expect if I worked in the TSBD and the shooter turned out to be a fellow employee I'd be combing my mind for every detail of what I did that day. Especially as the TSBD employees were asked about whether they saw a stranger around the building and they all say they didn't. In Weigman the employees who are walking back into the building are not the ones who went down to the Knoll and then returned to the building. Weigman is taken only seconds after the shots were heard and it's possible this was the group that was lining Elm St right in front of the TSBD and hadn't really grasped what had happened in the motorcade at this point and just headed back to work. If that is the case and they had to look PM in the face to open the door and get into the building then I would expect they would remember him either as Oswald or as a stranger. But there is not a word about this man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) Thanks for your response David. Except that what we are talking about here is the Kennedy assassination where everyone in the world who was alive on that day can remember exactly where they were and what they were doing when they heard the news. So I expect if I worked in the TSBD and the shooter turned out to be a fellow employee I'd be combing my mind for every detail of what I did that day. Especially as the TSBD employees were asked about whether they saw a stranger around the building and they all say they didn't. In Weigman the employees who are walking back into the building are not the ones who went down to the Knoll and then returned to the building. Weigman is taken only seconds after the shots were heard and it's possible this was the group that was lining Elm St right in front of the TSBD and hadn't really grasped what had happened in the motorcade at this point and just headed back to work. If that is the case and they had to look PM in the face to open the door and get into the building then I would expect they would remember him either as Oswald or as a stranger. But there is not a word about this man. Vanessa, Everyone can remember where they were and what they were doing except, of course, the retired ONI special agent, Robert David Steel, who told me he had "very probably" done the investigation of Oswald at El Toro when Oswald defected to Russia, who was a good friend of Oswald's arrester, Paul Bentley, and whom I interviewed on tape a few years ago (and which tape I am still waiting for Bill Kelly to return to me). Steele could remember how long his small WW II ship (USS Sea Scout) was, where he was when he heard that Pearl Harbor had been attacked (Brownwood, Texas), but for the life of him he couldn't seem to remember where he was when he heard JFK had been shot. But I digress. --Tommy Edited April 7, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Hi Tommy Well, there's only two possible explanations for that. He was either 1) in Dealey Plaza doing the shooting; or 2) Prayer Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) Hi Tommy Well, there's only two possible explanations for that. He was either 1) in Dealey Plaza doing the shooting; or 2) Prayer Man. Vanessa, Good one! Btw, when I asked him where the ONI office was situated in Dallas in 1963, he said, "It was across the street (from the TSBD?), it was in the Postal building (the Terminal Annex Building had a post office in it !), it was in the building Kennedy was killed from ("killed from" meaning where the command center / observation center was located? -- maybe even Harry Holmes' upper floor office?) " But I digress, again. --Tommy Edited April 7, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Oh - he probably really was in Dealey Plaza then! As you probably already know there was a large number of intelligence agencies all situated right near each other in the vicinity of Dealey Plaza. Did he say where was he stationed at the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Thanks very much for those comments, Robin. I really appreciate your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) Oh - he probably really was in Dealey Plaza then! As you probably already know there was a large number of intelligence agencies all situated right near each other in the vicinity of Dealey Plaza. Did he say where was he stationed at the time? Vanessa, He told me he was "the best investigator the ONI had" (bragging to me a few times that his IQ was 170), so he traveled a lot, investigating the really important stuff for the Navy. He was from Texas and knew a lot of the ONI and FBI and CIA people in Dallas and traveled there quite a bit. But to answer your question, he was living in San Diego at the time and was assigned to the old Eleventh Naval District. From a Wikipedia article: "The Eleventh Naval District, headquartered at the Lake Training Station in Lake Bluff, Illinois, was established on 7 May 1903 in accordance with General Order No. 128, signed by Acting Secretary of the Navy Charles H. Darling. The district was activated in 1911 as part of a larger administrative unit known as the "Ninth, Tenth and Eleventh Naval Districts." In 1920 the Eleventh Naval District became a separate Naval District. In 1945 the district was headquartered at San Diego, California, and consisted of the following geographic areas:New Mexico; Arizona; Clark County, Nevada; southern part of California, including Counties of Santa Barbara, Kern, and San Bernardino, and all counties south thereof. The Eleventh Naval District was disestablished on 30 September 1980." --Tommy PS We became aware of him because he sent his friend Paul Bentley, the polygraph officer at the Dallas Police Department, a telegram on the evening of 11/22/63 11/24/63 congratulating him for his role in the arresting of Oswald at the Texas Theater. Edited April 7, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) Oh - he probably really was in Dealey Plaza then! As you probably already know there was a large number of intelligence agencies all situated right near each other in the vicinity of Dealey Plaza. Did he say where was he stationed at the time? Vanessa, I didn't know that, actually, but I wouldn't be surprised. I do know that the Terminal Annex Building was a federal building and had a lot of federal offices in it, including a Navy Recruiting Office in 1962 and perhaps later. Are you sure you aren't confusing Dealey Plaza with Bannister's office in New Orleans, which was supposedly within walking distance of the offices where the "big boys" (CIA, ONI, FBI, etc) worked? But I digress yet again. What do you say we get back to trying to prove that Prayer man was Oswald so that we will know for sure that he didn't do it. LOL --Tommy Edited April 7, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Hi Tommy Another one of those six degrees of separation that crops up constantly in this. Although in his case it sounds like only 2 degrees of separation between him and Oswald. Were you able to find out where he sent the telegram from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I see everyone is steadfastly ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room, and merrily chatting about other things. Not a single comment about Chris Davidson's gif.? No comments about the obvious, that the 5'8" Billy Lovelady is obviously taller than PM, until he steps off of the top step onto a lower step? I would dearly love for PM to be Oswald, too, but I refuse to ignore the obvious in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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