Thomas Graves Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) Do you think that Prayer Man was standing as far back as you were? I think if we knew exactly where he was standing and drew 2 foot circle around that spot I would have had to have been in or touching it. I stood pretty close to the wall and in that corner. Chris, So I guess it was impossible for the sunlight to have hit him on that forearm, even though he was holding it out from his body a foot or so... And even if he was standing a foot-and-a-half or so closer to the street in your two-foot circle. -- Tommy Edited September 6, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) Tommy, I can't claim that's impossible. It wasn't something I was looking at or paying attention to. Next time I'm there I'll try to figure that out for you. Edited September 6, 2016 by Chris Newton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) Tommy, I can't claim that's impossible. It wasn't something I was looking at or paying attention to. Next time I'm there I'll try to figure that out for you. Okey dokey, Chris. At 12:31 on a sunny November 22 afternoon, right? (lol) And maybe you can ask someone to stand about where Weigman / Darnell / Couch were filming from and tell you if your Imperial Reflex camera lens is glowing "in the dark" way way back there in the corner where the sun don't even shine. -- Tommy Edited September 6, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 If "Prayerman" was carrying his Imperial Reflex camera, how did it get back to the Paine's garage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Ray, The troubling “if's” are beginning to accumulate in a variety of threads on this forum. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) If "Prayerman" was carrying his Imperial Reflex camera, how did it get back to the Paine's garage? I think that's an excellent question, Ray. Thanks for asking it. So, if PM was LHO, it looks like he couldn't have been holding his IR camera in Weigman and Darnell / Couch, unless the police took it back to Ruth's place, to be "found" there, later. -- Tommy Maybe he was holding binoculars or a very full (and therefore two-handed) mug of very, very hot coffee. Edited September 7, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hume Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Or a camera mounted light so he could occasionally take a selfie to establish his alibi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) Or a camera mounted light so he could occasionally take a selfie to establish his alibi. Tom, The more I think about that idea, the more I like it. Which would suggest that Oswald realized that he'd been patsied-up, and stood just far enough outside so he might be captured on film, but wouldn't necessarily be noticed by any of the other bad guys who might be monitoring the situation. I'm convinced he was holding something with both hands, probably a camera. Either that or a very full mug of very, very hot coffee, forcing him to hold it with both hands in order to not spill any of it. (lol) -- Tommy Edited September 9, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hume Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) Hi Tommy, What makes sense, at least to me, is that the plan was to have Oswald think he was performing some sort of necessary function in a secluded place on one of the upper floors of the TSBD. He would have been shot and killed there at 12:33, by whomever, and the Carcano would have been with him in the pool of blood. It makes sense that Lee knew what was happening and was intentionally out of position. What makes less sense, is why he wasn’t having a photo opportunity out on Elm Street wearing a bright red sweatshirt with “LHO” written across the front. Tom Edited September 9, 2016 by Tom Hume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Hi Tommy, What makes sense, at least to me, is that the plan was to have Oswald think he was performing some sort of necessary function in a secluded place on one of the upper floors of the TSBD. He would have been shot and killed there at 12:33, by whomever, and the Carcano would have been with him in the pool of blood. It makes sense that Lee knew what was happening and was intentionally out of position. What makes less sense, is why he wasn’t having a photo opportunity out on Elm Street wearing a bright red sweatshirt with “LHO” written across the front. Tom Tom, Maybe because LHO was afraid another bad guy might see him outside and do something bad to him. -- Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hume Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Thanks Tommy, your comment above makes sense. If Oswald was intentionally away from his assigned position (to save his own life), he might have wanted to be someplace with lots of witnesses around, yet someplace where he could keep a low profile; like in the shadows of the TSBD entrance. Speculating further, maybe Oswald’s assigned position required electricity (being at-the-ready in one of the elevators, or something), and it was Oswald or one of his cohorts that cut the power so Oswald had a good excuse for not being where is was supposed to be. Sorry to divert things. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Dealey Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Last year when I visited Dallas to speak briefly at the Lancer Conference I wandered around the Plaza the day before and took some pictures. This one is from the position of "Prayer Man" looking towards the direction of the approaching motorcade. I took it because I was curious as to whether this was a "good" vantage point to watch from and if there were any clues that could be gleamed. I post a link to it here to add it to the thread and maybe it can be some use to someone. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13150922/PM_view_11-21-2015.jpg Chris, Thanks for sharing your photo. Not that it necessarily matters, but do you remember what time of day you took it? Were you as far back as you could get? Was the sun shining on any part of you, or were you where the sun don't shine? Just a thought: Maybe Prayer Person had been expecting a coming-down-Houston head shot. (lol) -- Tommy Guys, Based on a shadow study I did a few years ago in Dealey Plaza.... The shadow from the lamp post across the street is a good indicator of the time of day (sun dials, etc. - OLD technology). It is almost 90 degrees across that curb, which is a natural 10 degrees off of N-S-E-W (whole Plaza is). I would say the time of day is about Noon. Respectfully, Jerry Dealey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 (edited) Interesting view of the Prayer Man position. Do I see Prayer Man's raised arms just below a tiny, tiny white spot? Click to enlarge. http://derosaworld.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c7c7d53ef012875649017970c-pi -- Tommy Edited October 6, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) Deleted due to wrong documents assigned to William Shelley. Edited October 20, 2016 by Bart Kamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) ROKC Scans of Bill Shelley's criminal record.scroll two/thirds down for the gallery. So Shelley had a history, Givens did (from 1951 no less) and so did Lovelady (first 5 pix of the gallery at the bottom of the page)) of which Ochus Campbell paid off Lovelady's remainder of the fine Bart, Which, if any, of those 13 documents has to do with his 1960 criminal record? (They are very slow to "open" on my computer.) All I see is 1969. Is his 1960 problem only mentioned in one of them? -- Tommy Edited October 13, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts