Robert Prudhomme Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Malcolm Couch was a cameraman for WFAA-TV in Dallas, and he and photographer Bob Jackson were riding in the backseat of a press car convertible in the motorcade; the eighth car back from JFK's limo. According to Couch's WC testimony, they had just turned onto Houston St. when they heard the first shot. Then, just before they reached the corner of Houston and Elm, two more quick shots were heard. According to Couch, at this time Bob Jackson yelled "Look up in the window! There's the rifle!" Couch then testifies that he looked up to the 6th or 7th floor just in time to see a rifle barrel being withdrawn into the window. This is the footage he took likely only a second later: Amazingly, Couch passes up a chance, should the gunman have leaned out for another shot, of filming the 6th floor window, just to film Baker running into the TSBD. Anyone besides me find this a bit strange? The REALLY interesting thing about this film, and I am embarrassed to say I never noticed it until last night, is that the car Couch and Jackson are in is sitting absolutely still for the entire time Couch was filming Baker, and only moves off down Elm St. after Couch pans back to film the convertible ahead of them in the motorcade. Does this prove the limo halted? Considering both cars were halted for quite some time, at the corner of Elm and Houston, Bob Jackson must not have yelled very loud about the rifle in the 6th floor window, as the occupants of the car ahead of them don't seem to be interested in it either, and none of them so much as glance up at the 6th floor. Edited January 17, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Jeffries Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) There were nearly 60 witnesses who reported, independently of one another, that the limousine had either dramatically slowed down or completely stopped. Vince Palamara tabulated these witnesses here: http://www.jfk-info.com/palam1.htm It defies credulity to believe that so many disparate witnesses just happened to notice this oddity, yet were all "mistaken" in an identical way. Much like the witnesses who reported other things that conflicted with the official story, and were all "mistaken" as well. There is no reason to dismiss the limo stop witnesses, any more than researchers should accept that Steven Witt was the Umbrella Man, that there was no hole in the windshield, that it definitely WAS Billy Lovelady in the TSBD doorway, that all the unnatural deaths of witnesses can be logically explained, etc. Even with so much evidence destroyed, missing or withheld, virtually everything that's in the public record regarding the assassination of President Kennedy screams conspiracy. Edited January 17, 2015 by Don Jeffries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) No one has ever disputed that the "motorcade" came to a brief halt. As a number of the press got out and ran around and then got back in their cars, it's clear that it did. The question is, and has been, whether or not the President's limo came to a complete stop. All the photographic evidence says "no." The eyewitness evidence is split, with many if not most saying it slowed but did not come to a complete stop. Researchers claiming otherwise almost always take witnesses back in the pack who said the motorcade stopped as support that the limo came to a complete stop. This has been demonstrated numerous times, on this forum and elsewhere. P.S. as I was writing this, Don posted a link to Palamara's list of "limo stop" witnesses. Those thinking the limo actually came to a dead stop, should go through that list and highlight the comments of those closest to the limo, and throw out the comments of witnesses from far back in the pack who said the motorcade stopped. When one does so, it becomes 100% clear that those assuming these witnesses all said the limo stopped are incorrect. Edited January 18, 2015 by Pat Speer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Jeffries Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Pat, I never claimed that all the witnesses said the motorcade stopped. Vince coupled the "slow down" witnesses with them, because they were obviously describing something very similar. But that many unconnected people each sharing the same voluntary observation indicates, at least to me, that something was quite unnatural about the speed of the motorcade at the time that shots were being fired at the limo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon G. Tidd Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Did the Warren Commission address whether the limousine slowed down or stopped? I seem to recall it did and determined all the persons who believed the limo slowed down or stopped were mistaken. If my recollection is correct, the Commission was flat out, provably wrong. The extant Nix film, which I believe was altered by the U.S. Government, depicts a distinct slowing, which appears in the film to begin just following the Z-313 head shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 "Oh, Mrs. Kennedy, oh my God, oh my God. I didn't mean to do it, I didn't hear, I should have swerved the car, I couldn't help it. Oh, Mrs. Kennedy, as soon as I saw it I swerved. If only I'd seen it in time!" SS agent and limo driver William Greer, as quoted in William Manchester's "The Death of a President" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon G. Tidd Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Robert, Didn't Jackie subsequently in private conversation dismiss Greer as being no more effective than her children's nanny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 "P.S. as I was writing this, Don posted a link to Palamara's list of "limo stop" witnesses. Those thinking the limo actually came to a dead stop, should go through that list and highlight the comments of those closest to the limo, and throw out the comments of witnesses from far back in the pack who said the motorcade stopped. When one does so, it becomes 100% clear that Don's assumption these witnesses all said the limo stopped is incorrect." From the FBI interview with Charles Brehm, close eyewitness to the assassination: "BREHM expressed his opinion that between the first and third shots, the President's car only seemed to move 10 or 12 feet. It seemed to him that the automobile almost came to a halt after the first shot, but of this he is not certain. After the third shot, the car in which the President was riding increased its speed and went under the freeway overpass and out of his sight." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Robert, Didn't Jackie subsequently in private conversation dismiss Greer as being no more effective than her children's nanny? She might have, I don't know. I'm more interested in this "swerve" he spoke of. It was observed by some witnesses but, of course, is not in the Zapruder film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 The question to ask is not whether or not the motorcade stopped, but to ask just how fast Greer would have been going while turning around and facing JFK, which was his position for much of the Z-film(s) until well after the fatal headshot at Z313. The answer is obvious. Not. Only after Greer was facing forward was the limo gunned into action and then it sped past the other cars in the motorcade, overtaking the lead car under the Triple Underpass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) It seems odd that the three camera cars, of which Jackson and Couch were in the third, would come to a halt up at the corner of Elm and Houston, when the assassination took place much further down Elm St. It is more likely they were stopped there by the cars stopped in the motorcade ahead of them, and if press people jumped out there, they only did so because their drivers could not get them closer to the assassination site. Edited January 17, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Palamara Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) No great claim to fame, but I was the first to 'popularize' the notion that many witnesses said the limousine slowed or stopped (way back in 1991 via The Third Decade conference and in the pages of the Dec 1992 Third Decade journal, since quoted in numerous books and articles, including Fetzer and Charnin, among many others). The one thing I do notice- some people misconstrue my intent: I am NOT saying that the limo stopped, only that the limousine SLOWED so much that a good number THOUGHT it stopped or almost stopped. One thing not under debate: the limousine slowed at a critical juncture of the shooting; even Posner and Bugliosi are on record as blaming Greer for the success of the assassination. And yes: Jackie most definitely was critical of Greer's actions (or lack thereof) and that above quote is from Manchester's book (both Jackie and Greer were interviewed for the book, as were Powers and O'Donnell, who both were critical of Greer's slowing of the limo. Powers even agreed with CBS Charles Kuralt in 1988 that Greer not hitting the gas pedal is the reason JFK died that day) Edited January 18, 2015 by Vince Palamara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 What do you make of Greer saying he swerved, Vince? Did anyone ever follow up on this? Considering a number of witnesses claimed to have seen the limo swerve to the left, as well as stop, I'm surprised no one ever pressed him on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Palamara Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Good point. No one really followed up on this because, in America circa 1963/1964 (even pre-Watergate), the pronouncements of the media and the government were taken at face value. In this regard, the Secret Service walked on water. Could you IMAGINE if, God forbid, the Secret Service would have lost a president in today's climate with all the scandals and so forth? Yet, these agents drank the night before and let JFK get killed...and no one was punished and several were promoted and received AWARDS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 "Oh, Mrs. Kennedy, oh my God, oh my God. I didn't mean to do it, I didn't hear, I should have swerved the car, I couldn't help it. Oh, Mrs. Kennedy, as soon as I saw it I swerved. If only I'd seen it in time!" Vince, I would pay a lot of money to find out what "it" was, and how swerving the limo would have been a good defense to "it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now