Did O'Donnell select the Trade Mart ?

[Greg Burnham]

Von Pein,

Give it a break. You have no idea what it means to protect a client. None. On the occasions that JFK's motorcade was traveling dangerously slowly the agents took measures to mitigate the danger. It is SOP. That those measures were not taken in Dealey Plaza is suspect.

[David Von Pein]

That those measures were not taken in Dealey Plaza is suspect.

Only if you're silly enough to believe that the U.S. Secret Service would have had a desire to intentionally give their own agency a permanent black eye by deliberately permitting their "client" to be killed on their watch.

Now I'll use your words, Burnham --- Give it a break.

Edited February 7, 2012 by David Von Pein

[William Kelly]

O'Donnell was the loyal Kennedy aide they manipulated not only to get JFK into the Kill Zone but to hijack AF1 for the return trip, because it had superior communications equipment.

Jesus H. Christ, what a load of bullxxxx.

Come on David,

You're the Bullxxxx Artist so you should know.

Now show us how it is Bullxxxx.

I only bring up two things - and you insist that O'Donnell was responsible for getting JFK to Dealey Plaza, now all I'm saying is that LBJ used O'Donnell to take over AF1 rather than return to DC in the jet he arrived on.

That's a fact, or show me where I'm wrong.

BK

[David Von Pein]

I only bring up two things - and you insist that O'Donnell was responsible for getting JFK to Dealey Plaza, now all I'm saying is that LBJ used O'Donnell to take over AF1 rather than return to DC in the jet he arrived on.

That's a fact, or show me where I'm wrong.

So, you think LBJ was involved in some plot, eh Bill?

You must think so. Otherwise, why would you bring this up at all?

You're the Bullxxxx Artist, so you should know.

I couldn't fling as much BS in a thousand lifetimes when compared to the excrement that comes out of this CT factory.

E.G.,

The CTers who are still peddling the "Oswald Was In The Doorway" myth.

The CTers who are still peddling the CT myth that the motorcade route was changed.

The CTers who pretend that LBJ had Kennedy killed.

The CTers who continue to think the three tramps were part of some plot to kill the President.

The CTers who pretend that "the evidence indicates Oswald didn't kill anyone" (that's a direct--and hilariously absurd--Feb. 6 quote from William Kelly).

Need I continue?

It's fairly obvious that CTers never bother to shed the old worn-out BS theories that were trounced decades ago. They wear the stale theories like a medal. Year after year. It's hilarious.

Encore Quotes:

"To a person like Jim DiEugenio [and William Kelly too], it seems the MORE evidence and corroboration there is of Oswald committing his crimes, the more INNOCENT Mr. Oswald becomes. And that's a very strange and illogical policy to live by, isn't it?" -- David Von Pein; May 29, 2010

"There is almost as much evidence that Oswald shot Kennedy as there is evidence that Kennedy got shot." -- Bud; July 21, 2010

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/b5094f337daa3eef

Edited February 7, 2012 by David Von Pein

[William Kelly]

I only bring up two things - and you insist that O'Donnell was responsible for getting JFK to Dealey Plaza, now all I'm saying is that LBJ used O'Donnell to take over AF1 rather than return to DC in the jet he arrived on.

That's a fact, or show me where I'm wrong.

So, you think LBJ was involved in some plot, eh Bill?

You must think so. Otherwise, why would you bring this up at all?

You're the Bullxxxx Artist, so you should know.

I couldn't fling as much BS in a thousand lifetimes when compared to the excrement that comes out of this CT factory.

THE CT FACTORY - I LIKE IT. NEW NICKNAME, WELL EARNED.

E.G.,

The CTers who are still peddling the "Oswald Was In The Doorway" myth.

I BELIEVE IT IS LOVELAND IN THE DOORWAY.

The CTers who are still peddling the CT myth that the motorcade route was changed.

I BELIEVE THAT SAM BLOOM/PEUTERBAUGH SET THE MOTORCADE ROUTE AND IT WASN'T CHANGED

The CTers who pretend that LBJ had Kennedy killed.

LBJ WAS A STONE COLD KILLER, DID IT BEFORE AND DID IT AFTER, BUT THE DP OPERATION WAS TOO COMPLICATED FOR HIM TO HAVE ENGINEERED IT, THOUGH HE WAS THE MAJOR BENEFICIARY

I SAID THAT LBJ LIED AND TRIED TO BLAME O'DONNELL FOR HIS HIJACKING OF AF1 FOR THE RETURN TRIP, BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO GO THERE FOR SOME REASON.

The CTers who continue to think the three tramps were part of some plot to kill the President.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THE TRAMPS HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING AND DON'T CLAIM TO KNOW WHO THEY WERE

The CTers who pretend that "the evidence indicates Oswald didn't kill anyone" (that's a direct--and hilariously absurd--Feb. 6 quote from William Kelly).

WELL YOU CAN'T PUT OSWALD ON THE SIXTH FLOOR AT THE TIME OF THE ASSASSINATION AND SOMEONE WAS IN THE WINDOW FIVE MINUTES LATER WHEN YOU SAY HE WASN'T THERE, SO HE DIDN'T KILL JFK, AND THERE WERE SO MANY PEOPLE IMPERSONATING HIM THAT THE TIPPIT CASE IS QUESTIONABLE, AND SHOULD BE REOPENED, ESPECIALLY SINCE OSWALD DIDN'T KILL JFK, HE PROBABLY DIDN'T KILL TIPPIT EITHER.

Need I continue?

It's fairly obvious that CTers never bother to shed the old worn-out BS theories that were trounced decades ago. They wear the stale theories like a medal. Year after year. It's hilarious.

IT'S FAIRLY OBVIOUS FROM ANY READING OF THE CT FACTORY THAT NO TWO CTS BELIEVE THE SAME THING, AS I DON'T BELIEVE FOUR OF THE FIVE CTS YOU LAID OUT. SO YOUR GENERALIZATION OVER CTS IS SO FAR OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY THAT NOBODY CAN EVEN TALK TO YOU AND MAKE SENSE.

Encore Quotes:

"To a person like Jim DiEugenio [and William Kelly too], it seems the MORE evidence and corroboration there is of Oswald committing his crimes, the more INNOCENT Mr. Oswald becomes. And that's a very strange and illogical policy to live by, isn't it?" -- David Von Pein; May 29, 2010

"There is almost as much evidence that Oswald shot Kennedy as there is evidence that Kennedy got shot." -- Bud; July 21, 2010

http://groups.google...5094f337daa3eef

I SAY THAT LBJ USED KENNY ODONNELL NOT ONLY TO GET JFK TO DEALEY PLAZA BUT TO HIJACK AF1 FOR THE RETURN TRIP TO DC.

THAT'S MY CONSPIRACY THEORY.

BK

JFKcountercoup

[David Von Pein]

I SAY THAT LBJ USED KENNY ODONNELL NOT ONLY TO GET JFK TO DEALEY PLAZA BUT TO HIJACK AF1 FOR THE RETURN TRIP TO DC.

THAT'S MY CONSPIRACY THEORY.

When did you turn into an "outer fringe" conspiracy theorist, Bill?

I never knew you were THAT far gone.

[David Von Pein]

IT'S FAIRLY OBVIOUS FROM ANY READING OF THE CT FACTORY THAT NO TWO CTS BELIEVE THE SAME THING, AS I DON'T BELIEVE FOUR OF THE FIVE CTS YOU LAID OUT. SO YOUR GENERALIZATION OVER CTS IS SO FAR OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY THAT NOBODY CAN EVEN TALK TO YOU AND MAKE SENSE.

LOL. I suggest that you, Bill, just glance at a few of the very recent threads at this forum. When you do that, you'll find that every one of the CT myths I outlined earlier is currently being peddled right here at Edu. -- from Doorway Man, to LBJ Did It, to the 3 Tramps, to the Motorcade Route myth, to your incredibly silly comment ("the evidence indicates Oswald didn't kill anyone").

All of those silly things are currently on Page 1 of this forum as I write this.

So don't blame me for being "out of touch with reality" when it comes to these theories. I was merely pointing out the debunked myths that CTers right here are still peddling--right now--in 2012.

And if you dig into the Edu. archives, I'm sure you can find a fairly recent thread on how Greer killed Kennedy, too. That's yet another myth that's still not debunked enough for some CTers.

Edited February 7, 2012 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

Jimmy Boy,

The day I believe a single thing uttered by Douglas P. Horne is the day that Phoenix is paralyzed by a blizzard.

Let's just take a quick (but by no means comprehensive) inventory

of a few of the insane and crazy things that Mr. Douglas P. Horne

believes happened with respect to the death of the 35th U.S. Chief

Executive.

And keep in mind that Mr. Horne thinks that ALL of these things

definitely occurred in connection with JFK's assassination, and this

short list is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to

the crazy conspiracy-oriented things that Mr. Horne puts his faith in.

Back in the world of sanity and REALITY, however, in order to believe

that even ONE of the following things is actually true, a person has

no choice but to place his faith in something that is really, really

silly:

1.) Doug Horne believes that President Kennedy's bullet wounds were

"altered" by Dr. James Joseph Humes at Bethesda Naval Hospital on the

night of November 22, 1963, with the President's wounds being altered

by Humes before the start of the official autopsy on JFK's body.

2.) Doug Horne believes that there were TWO separate brain

examinations performed by the autopsists in late November 1963, with

one of these supplementary brain exams being performed on a brain that

was NOT John F. Kennedy's brain. And the second brain exam was

apparently done on a brain that was WAY TOO BIG to even be JFK's own

brain. (The plotters/cover-up agents involved in this silliness

evidently had no brains at all in any of their own heads, because this

craziness is BEYOND silly and stupid. It's utterly insane, as is #1

above, of course.)

3.) Doug Horne believes that the Zapruder Film has been altered. And

Horne believes the film was faked/altered/manipulated despite the fact

that we know that the original film, both BEFORE and immediately AFTER

it was developed and copied in Dallas on 11/22/63, was never out of

the sight of Abraham Zapruder and/or Zapruder's business partner,

Erwin Schwartz. But maybe Mr. Horne would like to pretend that

ordinary Dallas citizens like Zapruder and Schwartz were also part of

the plot to conceal all of the best evidence from the eyes of the

American public immediately after JFK was shot.

4.) Doug Horne believes that multiple X-rays of JFK's head have been

faked/altered.

More of Horne's Hogwash:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/doug-horne-part-1.html

Back to your fantasy world, Jimbo.

Edited February 7, 2012 by David Von Pein

[William Kelly]

It seems like DVP would like to argue about any thing other than whether Kenny O'Donnell was hoodwinked by the Texans to get JFK to pass through Dealey Plaza.

I contend that they not only hoodwinked O'Donnell on the Trade Mart and motorcade route, they did the same thing to hijack AF1 for the return flight to DC.

After they got back to DC LBJ told Bobby that Kenny O'Donnell told him that it would be better to take AF1 - instead of the plane he flew in on, but when RFK asked O'Donnell about it he denied it, and Bobby realized that LBJ was using O'Donnell as an excuse for a lot of things.

Then after RFK was wacked, LBJ in his book Vantage Point, said that RFK asked him to appoint Allen Dulles and John McCloy to the Warren Commission.

Pow Pow.

BK

JFKcountercoup

[William Kelly]

Gary Mack wrote:

Bill,

Please stop the guilt-by-association smears such as Oswaldhaving done ONE minor job for theBloom Agency, which employed hundreds servicing many, many accounts, with theimplication there was some sort of connection. Thanks.

Gary

Gary, if you look at Oswald's Jaggers Chiles Stoval timecards - Oswald's the guy you say killed the President - he writes in his own hand writing that he was working on a "Sam Bloom" project. I didn't write thatOswald did. I didn't make the guilt by association, he did. I didn't select theTrade Mart or the Motorcade Route- Sam Bloom and E. F. Harris and Jack Peuterbaugh did.

Warren Commission Hearings and Exhibits

On this day - Tuesday, May 12, 1963, Lee H. Oswald, from 9:05 to 9:50, worked on the Sam Boom project.

Of course there's no guilt by association if Oswald wasn't the assassin or the Patsy.

Rendezvous At Dealey Plaza II « JFKCountercoup

Bill Kelly

Remember the Intrepid

[David Von Pein]

I contend that they not only hoodwinked O'Donnell on the Trade Mart and motorcade route, they did the same thing to hijack AF1 for the return flight to DC.

You actually think that LBJ was so desperate to fly on AF1 (instead of AF2) on the trip back to Washington, that he was willing to practically "hijack" (your word) the aircraft to do so?

LOL.

What difference does it make whether LBJ flew back on Air Force 1 or Air Force 2?

You CTers get goofier by the day.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

I contend that they not only hoodwinked O'Donnell on the Trade Mart and motorcade route, they did the same thing to hijack AF1 for the return flight to DC.

You actually think that LBJ was so desperate to fly on AF1 (instead of AF2) on the trip back to Washington, that he was willing to practically "hijack" (your word) the aircraft to do so?

LOL.

What difference does it make whether LBJ flew back on Air Force 1 or Air Force 2?

You CTers get goofier by the day.

In the mind of Lyndon Johnson, who I think was one of the major perps of the JFK assassination, the symbolism of Air Force One as a symbol of his new power was important.

Also, LBJ immediately became president upon Kennedy's death according to the U.S. Constition. There is absolutely no legal requirement for a swearing in. YET Lyndon Johnson kills time on the tarmac in Dallas, in the time of a national crisis to wait for Judge Sarah Hughes to "swear him in" - a completely unnecessary act and perhaps even a dangerous one in a very uncertain moment. LBJ also wanted the symbolism of the dead president's wife Jackie Kennedy standing their as if to verify the legitimacy of the usurper in chief.

It was all about symbolism.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Gil Jesus]

It seems like DVP would like to argue about any thing other than whether Kenny O'Donnell was hoodwinked by the Texans to get JFK to pass through Dealey Plaza.

He does this all the time, Mr. Kelly. He constantly changes the subject.

Apparently, O'Donnell must have realized later that he had been used.

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. O'Donnell, do you have any knowledge, aside from the factors which you have set forth during your testimony today, concerning anyone involved in the shooting of the President?

Mr. O'DONNELL. No; I have no comment.

( 7 H 457 )

I also suspect that Connally was likewise used, his "role" being to get the Trade Mart as the luncheon site. If this is true, whoever was controlling Connally was the mastermind of the plot. Even more dangerous for Connally, it put him in a position of having first hand knowledge of who was behind it.

Under those circumstances, one has to wonder if his wounding was as a consequence of a missed shot or an attempt to eliminate the only link between who was responsible for the assassination and the President.

Once he was hit, he may have realized that he as well as JFK was a target, "My God, they're going to kill us all", he yelled out.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Gil Jesus

[Gil Jesus]

What difference does it make whether LBJ flew back on Air Force 1 or Air Force 2?

You CTers get goofier by the day.

You really should read the testimony, David.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Gil Jesus

[Thomas Graves]

DiEugenio apparently wants to play the part of Village Idiot and act as if the motorcade route was actually changed, even though there's ample proof that the route was positively not changed at all.

But, as usual, to a conspiracy theorist like DiEugenio, it doesn't matter how stale and debunked a tired conspiracy theory might be, it's never TOO stale for the likes of some CTers who want to totally ignore the facts (which are presented below).

Was The Motorcade Route Changed?

Your calling DiEugenio the village idiot sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle "black".

--Tommy