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The 3 Men on the Steps


Don Bailey

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Plaid shirts & jackets & all red.

Just as Bowers said.

Miles,

I realize that members are not supposed to be calling others liars, so let me see if I can find another word for it .... "fibbers" - yeah thats it! In another thread in a reply to Kathy Becket - you admitted that Bowers never used the word "red" at all.

Kathy Becket: I think Bill said that the man on the bottom steps in a red shirt has no plaid design on it anywhere.

I am trying hard to see the red plaid--did Bowers actually use the words "red plaid" together?

Miles: Bowers does not say "red plaid shirt."

You may wish to better state your comments or else others may think you are trying to deceive Don with the slanted way you mix your words. Also, you didn't want to touch this fact in the other thread, so maybe over here you can explain to Don what you learned about the difference between the terms used by Bowers concerning the "HIGH GROUND" (where Lee said to Ball that was where he saw the two men) and the 'INCLINE" where you have tried to move these men to.

Oh yes ... I see that you now have Hudson wearing plaid even though it doesn't show up in any assassination image ... nice touch!

Thanks!

Bill Miller

Edited by Bill Miller
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I tried enhancing the Towner man in the red shirt every way

I could think of. The shirt does not appear to be plaid.

Jack

Jack,

Can you get Bernie to post your work on this question?

I'm getting different results. Thx

muchmore9BIG-1.jpg

Don,

If you can use these.............

No 6th floor scan scams econcom, eh?

Just as Bowers said, eh? - LOL.gif

5499-1.jpg

5499-plaid-2-1.jpg5499-plaid-1-1.jpg

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A new twist from the other thread, Miles??? You ran up countless responses claiming that the guy on the bottom step was the plaid shirt/jacketed man Bowers saw. You said the man in the dark pants was the "heavy set' man that Bowers described in dark pants. You even went as far to make something ridiculous seem plausible - you said the man east of Hudson was said to be heavy set when compared to the red shirted man on the lower step. So now is it your contention to make the 58 year old Hudson out to be the plaid jacketed man in his mid-twenties that Bowers spoke of???

Lee Bowers said, "One man, middle-aged, or slightly older, fairly heavy-set, in a white shirt, fairly dark trousers. Another younger man, about midtwenties, in either a plaid shirt or plaid coat or jacket.

And what about the spacing between the two men he spoke of? Here is a reminder ....

Mr. BOWERS - They were standing within 10 or 15 feet of each other, and gave no appearance of being together, as far as I knew.

Mr. BALL - In what direction were they facing?

Mr. BOWERS - They were facing and looking up towards Main and Houston, and following the caravan as it came down.

More Bowers code language? Are you going to say next that distances in "feet" to Bowers meant "centimeters"??

Bill Miller

Edited by Bill Miller
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Don said:

"So what I’m saying is that Emmett Hudson is the red shirt man on the stairs."

Then Miles said to Don:

"The red shirted man on the lower step fits the the bill as you say."

It's hard to believe that Emmett Hudson's identity is still being debated 44 years after the assassination. Let Hudson speak for himself.

On 11/25/63, FBI agents Gaston C. Thompson and Jack B. Peden interviewed Hudson and dictated their report, file #DL 89-43, on 11/26/63. In that interview, Hudson called attention to the 11/24/63 edition of the Dallas Times Herald which contained a copy of the Moorman photo. Of the three men shown standing on the concrete stairs, Hudson "POINTED TO THE MAN IN THE MIDDLE" and said, "That is me in the light colored clothing and that is where I was standing at the time the President was shot."

This eliminates the man in the red shirt. Simple as that.

Ken

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Don said:

"So what I’m saying is that Emmett Hudson is the red shirt man on the stairs."

Then Miles said to Don:

"The red shirted man on the lower step fits the the bill as you say."

It's hard to believe that Emmett Hudson's identity is still being debated 44 years after the assassination. Let Hudson speak for himself.

On 11/25/63, FBI agents Gaston C. Thompson and Jack B. Peden interviewed Hudson and dictated their report, file #DL 89-43, on 11/26/63. In that interview, Hudson called attention to the 11/24/63 edition of the Dallas Times Herald which contained a copy of the Moorman photo. Of the three men shown standing on the concrete stairs, Hudson "POINTED TO THE MAN IN THE MIDDLE" and said, "That is me in the light colored clothing and that is where I was standing at the time the President was shot."

This eliminates the man in the red shirt. Simple as that.

Ken

Ken,

That would be the newspaper that carried the photo that Emmett's son (William) had spoke about his dad showing to all his family and friends when he'd talk about the assassination in the days, weeks, months, and years that followed.

Bill

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Don said:

"So what I’m saying is that Emmett Hudson is the red shirt man on the stairs."

Then Miles said to Don:

"The red shirted man on the lower step fits the the bill as you say."

It's hard to believe that Emmett Hudson's identity is still being debated 44 years after the assassination. Let Hudson speak for himself.

On 11/25/63, FBI agents Gaston C. Thompson and Jack B. Peden interviewed Hudson and dictated their report, file #DL 89-43, on 11/26/63. In that interview, Hudson called attention to the 11/24/63 edition of the Dallas Times Herald which contained a copy of the Moorman photo. Of the three men shown standing on the concrete stairs, Hudson "POINTED TO THE MAN IN THE MIDDLE" and said, "That is me in the light colored clothing and that is where I was standing at the time the President was shot."

This eliminates the man in the red shirt. Simple as that.

Ken

I said that he fits the bill.

Whether he is Emmett or not is irrelevant to the point I'm making.

The red shirted man on the lower step fits the the bill as you say.

I've noticed the red colours of the sitting man's plaid jacket.

Your insight is astute & cuts to the heart of the matter.

His fitting the bill, even while not being Emmett (MY POINT), raises the insight that Emmett was ALSO wearing PLAID, a PLAID jacket, a red PLAID jacket, which Bowers saw.

This means that Bowers saw a plaid shirt & a plaid jacket.

In other words, whether Emmett is the red shirted man OR the red jacketed man, he is seen either way as a man in PLAID by Bowers.

To repeat, my statement that he fits the bill is an assertion that Bowers saw exactly what Bowers said he saw: a plaid shirt or a plaid jacket.

The statement that "he fits the bill" does NOT state that anyone is Emmett Hudson.

You missed the point. Simple as that.

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Don said:

"So what I’m saying is that Emmett Hudson is the red shirt man on the stairs."

Then Miles said to Don:

"The red shirted man on the lower step fits the the bill as you say."

It's hard to believe that Emmett Hudson's identity is still being debated 44 years after the assassination. Let Hudson speak for himself.

On 11/25/63, FBI agents Gaston C. Thompson and Jack B. Peden interviewed Hudson and dictated their report, file #DL 89-43, on 11/26/63. In that interview, Hudson called attention to the 11/24/63 edition of the Dallas Times Herald which contained a copy of the Moorman photo. Of the three men shown standing on the concrete stairs, Hudson "POINTED TO THE MAN IN THE MIDDLE" and said, "That is me in the light colored clothing and that is where I was standing at the time the President was shot."

This eliminates the man in the red shirt. Simple as that.

Ken

I said that he fits the bill.

Whether he is Emmett or not is irrelevant to the point I'm making.

The red shirted man on the lower step fits the the bill as you say.

I've noticed the red colours of the sitting man's plaid jacket.

Your insight is astute & cuts to the heart of the matter.

His fitting the bill, even while not being Emmett (MY POINT), raises the insight that Emmett was ALSO wearing PLAID, a PLAID jacket, a red PLAID jacket, which Bowers saw.

This means that Bowers saw a plaid shirt & a plaid jacket.

In other words, whether Emmett is the red shirted man OR the red jacketed man, he is seen either way as a man in PLAID by Bowers.

To repeat, my statement that he fits the bill is an assertion that Bowers saw exactly what Bowers said he saw: a plaid shirt or a plaid jacket.

The statement that "he fits the bill" does NOT state that anyone is Emmett Hudson.

You missed the point. Simple as that.

No, Miles. It's not as simple as that.

You, and you alone, chose to post the following train of thought on 9/21/07:

1. From Don: "So what I’m saying is that Emmett Hudson is the red shirt man on the stairs."

2. From Bill to Don: "And what I am telling you is that Emmett Hudson was 58 years old on the day of the assassination, stocky, and had gray bushy hair."

3. From Don to Bill: "Sorry Bill, you are wrong... Hudson was 56 on the day of the assassination. The red shirt man does fit the description of a stocky 56-year-old man. The gray bushy hair is your own claim. The old man tramp also has gray hair as a disguise; maybe his hair was bushy underneath his hat. Anyways, I go by the facts, not hearsay from some person on a forum."

4. From Miles to Don: "It's great to see some one else dealing with facts & not hearsay. Pompous nonsense soon proves profitless & retrograde, indeed. (Can you believe the nonsense about Hudson being in uniform? The pants & shirt are completely different in colour & fabric!). Your point is well taken. The red shirted man on the lower step fits the the bill as you say. . ."

So, Miles. There's really no question as to what's being discussed here. It's the identity of Emmett Hudson among the three men on the stairs. Don says it's the man in the red shirt. Bill disagrees. Don says Bill is wrong, and Don "goes by the facts." Then you, Miles, say, "It's great to see someone else dealing with facts. . . The red shirted man on the lower step fits the bill as you say. . ."

Thanks for clarifying what you really meant in a dialogue that strongly indicates just the opposite.

Meanwhile, the very first post in this thread, by Don, claimed that Emmett Hudson was the man "standing on the lower step below the other two." This is incorrect according to Emmett Hudson who should know.

Ken

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I said that he fits the bill.

Whether he is Emmett or not is irrelevant to the point I'm making.

That seems to be the case with any of the men you have been talking about.

His fitting the bill, even while not being Emmett (MY POINT), raises the insight that Emmett was ALSO wearing PLAID, a PLAID jacket, a red PLAID jacket, which Bowers saw.

This means that Bowers saw a plaid shirt & a plaid jacket.

Or it means you are purposely citing things as evidence again when they are not. You could say that it raises the possibility that Emmett Hudson may have had a plaid design on his coat, but the word insight as if to cite as fact is deceptive. In fact, you have gone back to mentioning that Bowers said 'red plaid' and everyone has seen where you admitted to Kathy that Bowers never used such a wording as "red plaid". It appears that you have been moving from man to man concerning those guys on the steps as if for a moment to infer that they could be the plaid shirt/jacketed man Bowers spoke of. Hudson could not have been the dark pants wearing heavy set man, nor could Hudson be the man Bowers said was in his mid-twenties. This is what happens when you xxxxx yourself into a corner.

Bill Miller

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This thread has set a record for pointless futility and waste of time.

Who gives a ratsass about a plaid vs plain shirt. It does NOTHING

to advance the cause of truth. There are far more relevant issues

to be studied.

Jack

Jack,

You are probably right in theory, but as someone like yourself who likes to speak out about exposing disinformation being infiltrated into the case, then I would think you have an interest in the evolution of Miles' use of the term 'red plaid'.

Bill

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Don said:

"So what I’m saying is that Emmett Hudson is the red shirt man on the stairs."

Then Miles said to Don:

"The red shirted man on the lower step fits the the bill as you say."

It's hard to believe that Emmett Hudson's identity is still being debated 44 years after the assassination. Let Hudson speak for himself.

On 11/25/63, FBI agents Gaston C. Thompson and Jack B. Peden interviewed Hudson and dictated their report, file #DL 89-43, on 11/26/63. In that interview, Hudson called attention to the 11/24/63 edition of the Dallas Times Herald which contained a copy of the Moorman photo. Of the three men shown standing on the concrete stairs, Hudson "POINTED TO THE MAN IN THE MIDDLE" and said, "That is me in the light colored clothing and that is where I was standing at the time the President was shot."

This eliminates the man in the red shirt. Simple as that.

Ken

I said that he fits the bill.

Whether he is Emmett or not is irrelevant to the point I'm making.

The red shirted man on the lower step fits the the bill as you say.

I've noticed the red colours of the sitting man's plaid jacket.

Your insight is astute & cuts to the heart of the matter.

His fitting the bill, even while not being Emmett (MY POINT), raises the insight that Emmett was ALSO wearing PLAID, a PLAID jacket, a red PLAID jacket, which Bowers saw.

This means that Bowers saw a plaid shirt & a plaid jacket.

In other words, whether Emmett is the red shirted man OR the red jacketed man, he is seen either way as a man in PLAID by Bowers.

To repeat, my statement that he fits the bill is an assertion that Bowers saw exactly what Bowers said he saw: a plaid shirt or a plaid jacket.

The statement that "he fits the bill" does NOT state that anyone is Emmett Hudson.

You missed the point. Simple as that.

No, Miles. It's not as simple as that.

You, and you alone, chose to post the following train of thought on 9/21/07:

1. From Don: "So what I’m saying is that Emmett Hudson is the red shirt man on the stairs."

2. From Bill to Don: "And what I am telling you is that Emmett Hudson was 58 years old on the day of the assassination, stocky, and had gray bushy hair."

3. From Don to Bill: "Sorry Bill, you are wrong... Hudson was 56 on the day of the assassination. The red shirt man does fit the description of a stocky 56-year-old man. The gray bushy hair is your own claim. The old man tramp also has gray hair as a disguise; maybe his hair was bushy underneath his hat. Anyways, I go by the facts, not hearsay from some person on a forum."

4. From Miles to Don: "It's great to see some one else dealing with facts & not hearsay. Pompous nonsense soon proves profitless & retrograde, indeed. (Can you believe the nonsense about Hudson being in uniform? The pants & shirt are completely different in colour & fabric!). Your point is well taken. The red shirted man on the lower step fits the the bill as you say. . ."

So, Miles. There's really no question as to what's being discussed here. It's the identity of Emmett Hudson among the three men on the stairs. Don says it's the man in the red shirt. Bill disagrees. Don says Bill is wrong, and Don "goes by the facts." Then you, Miles, say, "It's great to see someone else dealing with facts. . . The red shirted man on the lower step fits the bill as you say. . ."

Thanks for clarifying what you really meant in a dialogue that strongly indicates just the opposite.

Meanwhile, the very first post in this thread, by Don, claimed that Emmett Hudson was the man "standing on the lower step below the other two." This is incorrect according to Emmett Hudson who should know.

Ken

Rubbish.

My full post demonstrates that two men were possibly & very probably wearing PLAID, just as Bowers said!

You are forcing your own false ideas by only partially quoting my post.

My post states:

The red shirted man on the lower step fits the the bill as you say.

I've noticed the red colours of the sitting man's plaid jacket.

Your insight is astute & cuts to the heart of the matter.

You conveniently, for your own purpose to distort & mislead, left out the critical & most important sentence of my post:

I've noticed the red colours of the sitting man's plaid jacket.

Why?

Because your only concern & obsession is to find fault where none exists & pick nat offal out of pepper. - <_<

It's that simple.

Jack's got you & your ridiculous posturing dead right when he says:

"This thread has set a record for pointless futility and waste of time."

You are: - :lol:

Edited by Miles Scull
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This thread has set a record for pointless futility and waste of time.

Who gives a ratsass about a plaid vs plain shirt. It does NOTHING

to advance the cause of truth. There are far more relevant issues

to be studied.

Jack

Jack,

You are probably right in theory, but as someone like yourself who likes to speak out about exposing disinformation being infiltrated into the case, then I would think you have an interest in the evolution of Miles' use of the term 'red plaid'.

Bill

________________________

Bill,

Give it up and let Milesy "win."

--Thomas

________________________

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1. From Don: "So what I’m saying is that Emmett Hudson is the red shirt man on the stairs."

2. From Bill to Don: "And what I am telling you is that Emmett Hudson was 58 years old on the day of the assassination, stocky, and had gray bushy hair."

3. From Don to Bill: "Sorry Bill, you are wrong... Hudson was 56 on the day of the assassination. The red shirt man does fit the description of a stocky 56-year-old man. The gray bushy hair is your own claim. The old man tramp also has gray hair as a disguise; maybe his hair was bushy underneath his hat. Anyways, I go by the facts, not hearsay from some person on a forum."

4. From Miles to Don: "It's great to see some one else dealing with facts & not hearsay. Pompous nonsense soon proves profitless & retrograde, indeed. (Can you believe the nonsense about Hudson being in uniform? The pants & shirt are completely different in colour & fabric!). Your point is well taken. The red shirted man on the lower step fits the the bill as you say. . ."

So, Miles. There's really no question as to what's being discussed here. It's the identity of Emmett Hudson among the three men on the stairs. Don says it's the man in the red shirt. Bill disagrees. Don says Bill is wrong, and Don "goes by the facts." Then you, Miles, say, "It's great to see someone else dealing with facts. . . The red shirted man on the lower step fits the bill as you say. . ."

Thanks for clarifying what you really meant in a dialogue that strongly indicates just the opposite.

Miles has been playing the double talk/trolling game throughout my experience in reading the things he says. If one doesn't think so, then hear this ...

When Duncan posted about a 'floating cop torso' being seen in Moorman's photograph ... Miles ran up countless responses cheering and applauding Duncan for this alleged fantastic and valid find. When Miles chose to xxxxx the Bowers matter - he then says that there was no one in the RR yard and had there been, then Lee Bowers would have said so when referencing the remark about seeing the South side of the fence.

Want another example ??? Here it is .......

When Miles was trying to make a case for Lee Bowers's remarks about one of the men being "Heavy Set", and he knew it couldn't be the plaid shirted man that he was trying to push as being the plaid jacketed man, Miles said that the man in the dark pants probably looked heavy set to Lee Bowers compared to the red shirted man on the lower step. But when Don said that the man on the lower step fits the stocky build of a 56 year old man ... Miles then applauds Don's remark as if it is good to see someone dealing with facts. So when Miles needs the lower step man to appear skinny, then he cited him as thinner than the man in the dark pants (even though both appear to be the same size to me). When Miles wants the skinny man to be stocky, then he calls it that way by applauding Don's assessment that the man in the red shirt was stocky. Tow positions contradictory of each other - both accepted by Miles depending on the point he is trying to make at a given moment.

I said to Miles that trolling would only come back to bite him in the @$$ one day! Now where is the atomic bomb photo when you need it!!!

Bill Miller

Edited by Bill Miller
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Rubbish.

My full post demonstrates that two men were possibly & very probably wearing PLAID, just as Bowers said!

You are forcing your own false ideas by only partially quoting my post.

First of all - Bower's only mentioned one of the men as wearing plaid as if to help distinguish one from the other ... your sentence structure misleads the reader by implying Bowers had said that both men were wearing plaid shirts/jackets.

Also, your "probably wearing plaid" when talking about the men on the steps went in the toilet when I asked Mack to look at the original Towner slides.

"This thread has set a record for pointless futility and waste of time."

The timing of your feeling this way is not a surprise to many of us. Many of us take JFK's death very seriously ... IMO you have earned all that you're getting now.

Bill Miller

Edited by Bill Miller
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