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J. D. Tippit: Was he part of the conspiracy?


John Simkin

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I just noticed this interesting thread. Here is what Judyth said in the 2003 interview:

Lee said : Here's something we are gonna try to do to get me out of this. He said: I don't wanna die! Anyway, some of the things he brought up was like ... he said he had a friend that had been a policeman for some years, that he had even known before he went into the marines and he had confided some of his problems with him, and that this man was going to bring a police uniform for him to wear, and that maybe they were going to be able to get on a plane, I think he mentioned Redbird Airport, but that they were able to go on a plane together, as if they inspected it, but only one of them would get off the plane. And that were that plane came down, which would be in Houston, that a policeman would get off the plane, you know, so it would be a small airport, nobody would notice, nobody would care, because it was a policeman, or so it looked like. He mentioned several other ideas that he had as well. Now Lee had a way of really assuring you, and making you feel like things weren't all that bad.
Edited by Wim Dankbaar
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Myra,

If it has been truly established that Ruby knew a different Tippit I'd be very interested. The Tippit question is a big and nebulous one, so any crumb of info is significant.

It was G.M. Tippit that Jack Ruby knew. His nickname was, and is, "Tip". He got to know Jack in Jack's Silver Spur days, and genuinely liked him.

Steve Thomas

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I just noticed this interesting thread. Here is what Judyth said in the 2003 interview:
Lee said : Here's something we are gonna try to do to get me out of this. He said: I don't wanna die! Anyway, some of the things he brought up was like ... he said he had a friend that had been a policeman for some years, that he had even known before he went into the marines and he had confided some of his problems with him, and that this man was going to bring a police uniform for him to wear, and that maybe they were going to be able to get on a plane, I think he mentioned Redbird Airport, but that they were able to go on a plane together, as if they inspected it, but only one of them would get off the plane. And that were that plane came down, which would be in Houston, that a policeman would get off the plane, you know, so it would be a small airport, nobody would notice, nobody would care, because it was a policeman, or so it looked like. He mentioned several other ideas that he had as well. Now Lee had a way of really assuring you, and making you feel like things weren't all that bad.

Wim,

Judyth is a sick person who provides no investigative leads that help determine what really happened and what she has to say only muddys the waters.

Bill Kelly

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John Simkin and other moderators,

I call upon you to not allow posts as above from Bill Kelly.

If I would call Mr. Kelly "a sick person who provides no investigative leads that help determine what really happened and what he has to say only muddys the waters", you would probably (and rightfully) do the same, not to speak of persons who have submitted information, claimed to be first hand knowledge, related to the subject of this forum, whether they are subject to debate or not.

Wim Dankbaar

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John Simkin and other moderators,

I call upon you to not allow posts as above from Bill Kelly.

YOU CAN TRY TO CENSOR ME ALL YOU WANT. I DON'T TRY TO CENSOR YOU OR JUDYTH, I JUST SAY THAT AFTER READING ALL THE MATERIAL I CAN ABOUT HER, AND TALKING TO YOU ABOUT HER, THAT NONE OF THE INFO SHE PROVIDES LEADS ANYWHERE, UNLIKE OTHERS WHO HAVE PROVIDED SIMILAR INFO.

If I would call Mr. Kelly "a sick person who provides no investigative leads that help determine what really happened and what he has to say only muddys the waters", you would probably (and rightfully) do the same, not to speak of persons who have submitted information, claimed to be first hand knowledge, related to the subject of this forum, whether they are subject to debate or not.

YOU CAN CALL ME A SICK PERSON, BUT IF YOU HAVE READ MY WORK YOU WOULD KNOW THAT THAT STATEMENT IS FALSE.

Wim Dankbaar

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT JD TIPPIT, DALLAS COP KILLED ON 11/22/63 AND QUESTIONING WHETHER HE WAS PART OF A (THE) CONSPIRACY TO KILL THE PRESIDENT.

I HAPPEN TO BELIEVE THAT THIS CASE CAN BE SOLVED BY A PROPER AND OFFICIAL GRAND JURY INVESTIGATION TODAY.

JUDITH HAS NO FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE OF THIS REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH YOU PAID TO BUY INTO HER STORY.

BILL KELLY

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Above post really proves sadness.

I contributed a post about JD Tippit!

I HAPPEN TO BELIEVE THAT THIS CASE CAN BE SOLVED BY A PROPER AND OFFICIAL GRAND JURY INVESTIGATION TODAY.

Today? Today has been the past ten years!

Thank God Bill Kelly is not the measure for JFK research!

YOU CAN CALL ME A SICK PERSON, BUT IF YOU HAVE READ MY WORK YOU WOULD KNOW THAT THAT STATEMENT IS FALSE.

I did not call you a sick person. I said "If I would call you ....."

But why is Mr. Kelly allowed to call witnesses "sick persons"?

Let's suppose he calls Tosh Plumlee a "sick person". Is that allowed too?

Wim

Edited by Wim Dankbaar
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Above post really proves sadness.

I contributed a post about JD Tippit!

I HAPPEN TO BELIEVE THAT THIS CASE CAN BE SOLVED BY A PROPER AND OFFICIAL GRAND JURY INVESTIGATION TODAY.

Today? Today has been the past ten years!

Thank God Bill Kelly is not the measure for JFK research!

YOU CAN CALL ME A SICK PERSON, BUT IF YOU HAVE READ MY WORK YOU WOULD KNOW THAT THAT STATEMENT IS FALSE.

I did not call you a sick person. I said "If I would call you ....."

But why is Mr. Kelly allowed to call witnesses "sick persons"?

Let's suppose he calls Tosh Plumlee a "sick person". Is that allowed too?

Wim

Look Wim,

The only qualification I required in determining the worthwhile of JAB's story is that she provide one new witness, one new place, or one document that gives us a better insight into Lee Harvey Oswald, the accused assassin of the president, and she doesn't and she can't.

There is a psychological term for those who insert themselves in important cases, which I will dig up if you insist, but I really have better things to do, preparing potential witnesses for Congressional Oversight Hearings (if there are any) and potential grand jury witnesses and questions for each.

BK

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There is a psychological term for those who insert themselves in important cases, which I will dig up if you insist, but I really have better things to do, preparing potential witnesses for Congressional Oversight Hearings (if there are any) and potential grand jury witnesses and questions for each.

Have you not inserted yourself in the case? Are you a witness? And you really think you are important? What's the psychological term for that? Narcism? Overestimation? Megalomania? Or shall we say the same condition Hilter suffered from?

Wim

PS: Please remind us what your qualification of Chauncey Holt was. A charming conman? Or was that Jack White?

Edited by Wim Dankbaar
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Have you not inserted yourself in the case? Are you a witness? And you really think you are important? What's the psychological term for that? Narcism? Overestimation? Megalomania? Or shall we say the same condition Hilter suffered from?

Wim

That Bill Kelly is really sump'n else.

Which reminds me of something I meant to ask, Meneer Dankebaar: why do Dutchmen always wear wooden shoes?

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Myra,
If it has been truly established that Ruby knew a different Tippit I'd be very interested. The Tippit question is a big and nebulous one, so any crumb of info is significant.

It was G.M. Tippit that Jack Ruby knew. His nickname was, and is, "Tip". He got to know Jack in Jack's Silver Spur days, and genuinely liked him.

Steve Thomas

Thanks very much Steve.

Do you have a reference you could point me to so I can read about it in a little more detail?

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Buddy Walthers was intimately involved in the events of 11/22/63, the following document deals not only with the activities mentioned in the document title, but also regarding the Tippit murder, but perhaps more interestingly his account of the JFK suspect in the balcony of the Texas Theater.

The document is fairly large, and should add an important component to this thread......

ALLEGATIONS IN BOOK "THE RED ROSES OF DALLAS," BY NERIN E. GUN, TO THE EFFECT “BUDDY” WALTHERS OF DALLAS COUNTY SHERRIFS OFFICE HAD STATED ONE SHOT IN THE ASSASSINATION FIRED FROM RAILWAY OVERPASS AND THAT FOURTH BULLET FOUND BY HIM AND SECRET SERVICE AGENT

IN GRASS NEAR BRIDGE

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=1

Below are some selected excerpts:

“.......At about this time word was passed through the crowd that the President had been shot, as well as Governor Connally. The only building that was likely to have a shot fired from in this area was the Texas School Book Depository Building on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston Streets, which, by this time was fast becoming surrounded by police officers. Upon returning to the front of this building I was met by Allen Sweatt, Chief Criminal Deputy of the Dallas Sheriff’s office and immediately escorted 5 witnesses to the shooting, which he turned over to me and took them to Sheriff Decker’s office and placed them in the custody of Deputy Harold Elkins until they could be questioned. At this time Deputy Allen Sweatt told me that a police officer had been killed somewhere in Oak Cliff on Jefferson Street. I immediately left the office with Deputies J.C. Ramsey and Deputy Frank Vrla and ran code 3 to Oak Cliff. I recieved information by radio that there was a suspect in the Dallas Public Library located at Marsalis and Jefferson. Upon arriving at this location we were met by a number of other police officers, and we surrounded the library. It was then determined that the person inside the library was the wrong person.

Upon getting back into our automobile, we started toward 10th Street, where the police officer had been killed, in order to obtain further information and then received radio information from Deputy Bill Courson, who was also in the Oak Cliff area, that the suspect was in the balcony of the Texas Theater on West Jefferson. We arrived at this location within a few seconds and were met by many other officers

Upon proceeding to the balcony of the theater, I ordered the manager of the theater to turn on the house lights. Some unknown officer was holding a white man at the steps of the balcony. I proceeded on into the balcony. I looked over the balcony a saw a commotion in the center section........

.........Mrs. Payne gave us permission to search the house or do anything we wanted to, and she also through interpretation, gave us Mrs. Oswald’s permission to do the same. Mrs. Payne then gave us a telephone number and stated that was the telephone number of Lee Oswald, however, she advised she did not know an address where he was staying.

At this time, I called Sheriff Decker and informed him of this and he criss-crossed this telephone number and gave us an address of 1026 N. Beckley. He advised that he would dispatch other officers to cover this address.......

Regarding interesting items found

........Also found was a set of metal file cabinets with the names and activities of Cuban sympathizers......

.........Concerning the claim made by GUN in his book “The Red Roses of Dallas,” that WALTHERS stated that the shots, or at least one of the shots, fired in the assassination of President Kennedy were fired from the railroad overpass in front of the President’s motorcade, WALTHERS stated he never made any such statement.”

And Walthers' death is one of the more suspicious ones in the aftermath of the assassination:

"Another important death was Eddy Raymond (Buddy) Walthers. He joined the Dallas Police Department in December, 1955. He was promoted through the ranks, but a colleague, Roger Craig, claimed that Walthers success was a result of the close relationship he enjoyed with Bill Decker, the sheriff of Dallas. Craig later wrote: "Walthers... had absolutely no ability as a law enforcement officer. However, he was fast climbing the ladder of success by lying to Decker and squealing on his fellow officers."

Walthers was on duty in Dealey Plaza on 22nd November, 1963, and was the first police officer to question James T. Tague, who was cut by a flying object during the assassination. In Rush to Judgment, Mark Lane claims that "Walthers spoke with Tague and, examining the ground nearby for bullets, found a mark on the curb. Teague said, 'There was a mark quite obviously that was a bullet, and it was very fresh'. The piece of curb itself, exposed to the elements for three-quarters of a year, was at last taken away to the FBI laboratory."

Soon after Walthers interviewed Tague he was seen by witnesses with two men. A sequence of photos show one of the men picking something up out of the grass and then putting it in his pocket. Some researchers claim that these men were FBI or CIA agents. Walthers initially claimed a bullet was found. However, he later changed his mind and said it was actually a piece of JFK's head. Some researchers have suggested that it was a bullet that could not be linked to Lee Harvey Oswald that was being placed in the agent's pocket.

According to Michael Benson (Who's Who in the JFK Assassination) when Jack Ruby was arrested for killing Lee Harvey Oswald, his possessions were searched and among them was Walther's signed permanent pass to the Carousel Club.

In his book, When They Kill A President, Roger Craig claims that: "Buddy had a powerful hold on Decker. I base this on the fact that Buddy's popularity with Decker greatly increased after the assassination."

Attempts were made by Jim Garrison to persuade Walthers to testify at the Clay Shaw trial. In June, 1968, Walthers reported a bombing outside his home in Oak Cliff. It has been suggested that this was an attempt to warn him off talking to investigators such as Garrison about what he knew about the assassination of John JFK. The Shaw trial was due to take place in February, 1969.

On 10th January, 1969, Bill Decker sent Buddy Walthers and Alvin Maddox to a motel to question Walter Cherry, an escaped convict and a man suspected of a double murder. When the two detectives entered the room Buddy Walthers was shot dead by Cherry.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKwalthersB.htm"

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...c=603&st=15

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It is not true that Tippit was not the only cop not dispatched to DP [...]
[emphasis added by Thomas G.]

__________________________________

Duke,

What we got here is a triple negative. I guess what you're trying to say is that Tippit was the only cop not dispatched to DP.

If that's what you mean, then "cool, daddy-o."

--Thomas

__________________________________

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It is not true that Tippit was not the only cop not dispatched to DP [...]
[emphasis added by Thomas G.]

... What we got here is a triple negative. I guess what you're trying to say is that Tippit was the only cop not dispatched to DP.

If that's what you mean, then "cool, daddy-o."

Beam me up, Scotty, I think I've was accidentally transported to The Grammar Forum! :lol:

Thanks, Thomas. Actually, the second "not" doesn't belong there, hence:

It is not true that Tippit was the only cop not dispatched to DP.

That is, saying that Tippit was the only cop not dispatched to DP is a false statement.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have always been intrigued as to why Tippit was waiting at the Good Luck Oil station, or more importantly, who he was waiting for. What could have been so important that, only moments after the nearby assassination, would have required him to be there?

Given his subsequent actions, described earlier in this thread as “a man frantically looking for someone”; the erratic movements; the manic search of Andrews’ car; running a stop sign; the failed telephone call at the Top Ten Records shop, and the then seemingly successful conclusion to that search at the corner of 10th and Patten surely points to only one thing: he was waiting at Gloco looking out for Oswald to pass over the Houston Street viaduct.

If so, logic dictates that the original plan would be for Tippit to identify a particular vehicle crossing the viaduct, a vehicle that Tippit may have been familiar with or had at least been briefed on, and then follow it to a pre-arranged rendezvous. It either didn’t turn up, or he got there too late, or there was a forced change of plan – one of many that weekend – provoking the ensuing frantic search.

Given the well documented testimonies of an Oswald sighting climbing into a Nash Rambler close to the TSBD moments after the assassination, could this be the car Tippit was anxiously waiting for? It would certainly seem logical. Many researches suggest he was waiting for Oswald’s taxi. But surely, whatever Tippit’s role was you’d have thought his handlers would have given him better odds than that!

So this, in my opinion, lends credence to the sighting by Officer Craig and others of an Oswald escaping by the more conventional means of a get-away car as opposed to the risible public transport pantomime.

If indeed it was Oswald in that Nash Rambler, and Tippit’s actions point further to that possibility, this means we have a major discrepancy that can only be explained by the presence of two Oswalds. That or the entire section of the WC that deals with Oswald’s journey (journey, not get-away!) from the TSBD to his room on Beckley - including the witness testimonies of all those who identified him at various points along the way, bus driver, taxi driver, former landlady etc - is a pack of lies from start to finish.

We can dismiss any amount of the conclusions drawn up by the WC but can we pick and choose which group of witnesses we want to believe or disbelieve on the basis of inconvenience to a pet theory? Is it in any way likely that the above WC witnesses were complicit in the conspiracy when they described Oswald’s public transport movements? This is probably the same odds as the witnesses to the Nash Rambler get-away scenario, among others who placed ‘Oswald’ in all the ‘wrong’ locations, conspiring to create a red herring that may muddy the waters for the next half century. If just one witness from each of the alternative scenarios is correct we know for certain that there were indeed two Oswalds.

Pure conjecture but I often wonder whether Tippit eventually encountered the ‘wrong’ Oswald. The one he didn’t know! That would certainly explain the initial casual nature of the meeting at 10th and Patten, only turning sinister as Tippit’s suspicions are raised during the course of the conversation, when something just didn’t quite ring right.

This scenario also accounts for the impossibility of the patsy Oswald, (i.e. the one known by Tippit) by now nervously seeking his contact in the Texas Theatre, being physically capable of reaching the crime scene in the time available to do the deed.

Of course this is pure speculation and tells us nothing of what the real connection was or what the ultimate outcome of the rendezvous was supposed to be. But it does underline the importance of an often overlooked aspect to this case – Tippit’s role.

Who was moving him around the chessboard and why?

Edited by Bernie Laverick
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