Jump to content
The Education Forum

J. D. Tippit: Was he part of the conspiracy?


John Simkin

Recommended Posts

Well Nic,

What you said, sorta reminded me of something else....Here is another new interesting story in regard to Tippit. I'm sure some have heard about it, but it might be new to some. I first read about it in Walt Brown's, JFK/DPQ Publication and is also included in Livingstones new book.

For Reaseach Purposes Only!

A woman by the name of Mrs. Doris Holan, lived at 409 E Tenth Street, She lived upstairs directly across the street and her windows looked directly on Tippit's Patrol car and the murder scene.

Mrs Holan has been an unreported witness all these years. Yet she was dying of terminal cancer and talked to Dallas Researcher Michael Brownlow prior to her death in 2000. She met with Brownlow twice and once accompanied with reseracher Prof. BIll Pulte.

Mrs Holan had just returned home from her job that morning, a few minutes after 1:00, then she heard gun shots. She hurried to her window and saw Tippit's patrol car, across the street and parked in front of the driveway between 404 and 410 E. Tenth Sreet. Tippit was lying on the street, near the left front of the car. She saw a man leaving the scene, moving westward towards Patton.

Mrs Holan also noticed something else that had not previously, ever been reported. A second police car in the driveway, which went all the way back to the alley, moving forward slowly towards Tippit's car on Tenth. Near the police car she also saw a man in the driveway walking toward the street where Tippit was parked.

She went downstairs at once and over to Tippit. The man in the driveway continued to the street, walked in front of Tippit's patrol car, paused and looked down at Tippit's head, and retraced his path up the driveway. At the same time, the police car changed direction and backed up in the driveway to the alley running parallel to Tenth, behind the houses on 404 and 410.

In 1963, the driveway could be entered from the alley from the rear, as well as from Tenth. Because Tippit's car was parked in front of the Tenth Street entrance, the alley provided the only passage from the driveway for the driver of the police car.

Mrs. Holan's account of a second police car is supported by the comments of Sam Guinyard, who told Brownlow in 1970 that he saw a police car in the alley shortly after the police shooting. The man in the driveway was apparently also seen by others: a resident of the neighborhood, who wishes to remain anonymous, told Prof Pulte, in 1990, that he had heard about a man in the driveway who approached Tippit's car.

Another thought...Earlene Roberts saw a police car stop and honk in front of the boarding house on 1026 N Beckley, where LHO lived.... at around 1:03. Tippit was shot at around 1:10 to 1:15 at the latest. This could possibly have been the police car she saw.

Dixie

P.S. Nic, don't feel too bad about your Mom not allowing Right Wing Books in the house. When my daughter was a pre-teen, I told her that I didn't want any of those $#%@*& "Beatles" records in the house. Then sometime later, I changed and was even trying to play their music on my guitar....:-)

This one, whit a second police car at the tippit murder scen is new for me, anywhere i can read about it?

I think a police officer had to die, to staple in everyone's mind that this guy had this problem with authority, and why else would Tippit have to die unless Oswald was supposedly scared of being arrested? If you didn't want to draw suspicion on yourself, why shoot a police officer in broad daylight?

If Oswald did it alone, he managed to murder the President of the United States in a packed Plaza in broad daylight, with only a VAGUE description of him getting out, and people doubting his guilt forty years later. WHY, would someone THAT intelligent, shoot a police officer in broad daylight with tons of witnesses nearby, and no one that could be mistaken as another suspect.

Hi Nic,

You make some excellent points. I think, however, that whoever shot Tippit just might have done so out of self defense. I say this because a witnesses (the car salesman?) said that when they turned Tippit's body over, they found Tippit's gun out of its holster and under Tippit's body (which leads me to believe that Tippit was going to shoot the man/men who ended up "getting the jump" on Officer Tippit, instead).

FWIW, Thomas

Tippit could have drawn his gun, but the other man was faster.

P.S. Nic, don't feel too bad about your Mom not allowing Right Wing Books in the house. When my daughter was a pre-teen, I told her that I didn't want any of those $#%@*& "Beatles" records in the house. Then sometime later, I changed and was even trying to play their music on my guitar....:-)

Very interesting about the second police car, I'd heard of that before but never in detail.

My mom is one of those overly-religious Republicans that believes gays burn in hell and that George W Bush is the best President we've ever had. She didn't speak to my stepfather for a week after he voted for Perot instead of Bob Dole and we got Clinton for another four years. Considering her daughter is a pansexual Libertarian, you'd think she'd get over it, but nah.

Oh well, at least The Beatles still rock. I'm partial to George Harrison myself. ;D

Try Kitty Kelly's book on the Bushes, real interesting read. Do hide it from your mother.

George

This is a good scenario and explains alot.

The various witnesses place people other than Oswald and a police car, and a man

confirming the murder at the site of tippits death.

Tippetts murder was part of the frame.

It made Oswald "guilty" of the murder, if the evidence wasn't strong for Kennedy, the cumulative

evidence of both were more convincing.

WHy was Tippett killed?

He may have tried to prevent the murder of JFK, the escape of Lee Oswald, or both.

We really don't know where he was at 12.30 do we?

He was looking for someone (Oswald? Roscoe White?) and the spare uniform points to the whole

"two cops drive out to Redbird airfield and David Ferrie flies one of them to Mexico" scenario.

This is a great thread, thanks for reviving it.................

Let’s just pretend the following:

Officer Tippit was part of the assasination and his job was to get LHO out of town to the Red Bird Airport. For the cover of LHO he took a second uniform so it would look like two cops which was the normal case.

The plan was changed an LHO was given the signal by the police car that honked twice in front of his room. This change of course could have been the plan right from the beginning but was not told to everybody. The signal made LHO nervous so he took his weapon with him when going to the meeting point of plan B the Texas theater.

Tippit was waiting for Oswald but he did’nt show up, so Tippit rushed to the Top Ten Record Shop to make a phone call but could not reach anybody, so he went back to the streets desperatly looking for Oswald.

„Professor Bill Pulte has a possible explanation for Tippit’s erratic movements in the final minutes of his life. Hel explained that Tippit’s movements are consistent with the actions of a man frantically looking for someone.“

Tippit spotted a police car between 404 and 410 East Tenth Street. He pulls back and parks the car. After a short argument he got shoot and Oswalds ID is placed

at the murder scene. Now the have a reason to charge LHO with murder of a police

officer and he will be arrested. There might be a little chance that Oswald get shoot

during the attempt of arresting but there are further plans that bring up Ruby.

Oswald meanwhile a little late due to the traffic problems on his way home, rushes

to the Texas theater and forgets to buy a ticket. Because of the shooting in the

neighbourhood a man running is always suspicious so he’s reportet to the police.

So Tippit’s part was never more than beeing the victim of Oswald kind of the patsy of the patsy.

I don´t think he was looking for Rosco White, why did he then have a spare uniform in his car?

Was White of duty that day?

The two underlying issues to this thread concern whose WC testimony ultimately helped set the stage for the LHO Did it theory. Ultimately as a composite of the whole issue boils down to [Helen Markham vs Aquilla Clemons] Helen Markham who was the 'star witness' contrasted

And perhaps the ultimate 'overlooked' angle by JFK Researchers

Testimony of Earline Roberts re LHO's 'activities' after arriving at 1026 N. Beckley. Why is it that there is such a 'gloss over' overlooking the fact that Bertha Cheek and Earlene Robert's were sister's. The DPD. the FBI and the Warren Commission certainly were well aware of it. In fact there were, as most veteran's of the JFK Saga are well aware, that Hubert and Griffin were very interested in this connection and were very adamant about 'checking it out' but were eventually overruled by higher-up's. Those interested in the Tippit reconstruct would be well served by looking into the previous Dallas Police Dept. visit's to 1026 N. Beckley, for starters.

Also see the 'discrepancy over identification of the cartridges' DPD Joe Poe

Chain of Possession of evidence a basic fraud that no one was interested in 'going there.'

At least 4 Dallas Police Dept Reports that Oswald was arrested in the 'balcony' of the Texas Theater.

Can one rail against the 'sheer ludicrousness' of the idea of a 2nd Oswald and be considered knowledgeable about the Kennedy Assassination, when every investigative body period ran across this aspect time and time again, does the Ultimate Question of 11/22/63 intertwine with footage of LHO running down the knoll after 12:31 PM, or is that a figment of someone's imagination?

Could the Dallas Police Department even with foreknowledge of 11/22/63 detect a covert operation in an era when the majority of those employed by same couldn't define the meaning of the word?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 374
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

It seemed obvious to me that Tippit's death was meant to inflame and manipulate the DPD into shooting down a "cop-killer". It doesn't fit any other purpose. ... Revolver casings at the scene? You just shot someone and you're going to drop the brass there, which will have your prints and which can be tied to the murder weapon. How can you chew gum and walk at the same time? Who is that stupid?
Quite so. Can you also think of another crime that would cause most of the police force to respond, or one that, if the police force is otherwise occupied (say, at the scene of the murder of the President of the United States) that might cause them to leave that scene?

That is, of course, exactly what happened when JDT was shot.

Deliberately emptying the gun and leaving the hulls at the scene was not "stupid," it was calculated: it tied the ammunition to the gun that would be "found" in LHO's "possession." The gun would simply have been dropped to the ground in the scenario below.

They can't let Lee go to trial, that would be shining a bright spotlight on the crime. According to all accounts of Ruby's actions, again i find it fairly apparant that him shooting Oswald was improvisation, but Ruby really wasn't given a choice.
Pinky Westbrook told a "funny story" of how, in the midst of subduing LHO, a police officer was very nearly handcuffed. Given any of their modes of dress vice LHO's, can you imagine any way in which a cop's hand might be mistaken for LHO's ... unless, perhaps, it had a gun in it?

The "snap" that McDonald heard - the misfire that ceased to exist by the time the bullets got to DC but which at least three cops testified to - was supposed to have been the shot that killed him. Imagine a loud bang! in the theater and McDonald falling over, wounded at best. LHO would have died in a hail of bullets. The story would have ended right there, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Unfortunately (but fortunately for McDonald!), the bullet was a dud and thence to Plan B, which was concocted on the fly because nobody thought it would really be needed. Ruby was forced into it because he was a Jew, and was convinced of his need to shoot LHO on Friday night while "Johnny" was not part of the conversation. His other option was to have his family harrassed at best, killed at worst.

Think about it: the Lone Communist killed by the Lone Jew. Unlikely? Sure, but in whose interest was it to deflect suspicion from himself or themselves by having such readily available suspects?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

God help us if the Tippitt family gets a hold of this thread. Just when you think they've suffered enough, the buffs inflict a little more pain. Of course, in Buff Land, the innocent (Tippitt) are never truly innocent.

IF TIPPIT WAS MURDERED BY THE SAME FELLA THEY SAY KILLED THE PRESIDENT, THEN HE IS MOST CERTAINLY INVOLVED IN THE CRIME REGARDLESS OF HIS INNOCENCE OR WHAT HIS FAMILY THINKS ABOUT IT.

WHY SHOULD ANYONE BE MORE CONCERNED WITH THE SENSITIVITIES OF ONE VICTIM'S FAMILY AND NOT THE OTHERS - THE KENNEDY FAMILY, OSWALD FAMILY, CONNALLY FAMILY?

THE TIPPITS ARE A COP FAMILY AND THEY CAN DEAL WITH IT.

I'M SURE SOME OF THE TIPPIT GRANDKIDS AND COUSINS, LIKE THE OSWALD GIRLS AND KENNEDY KIDS, ARE INQUISITIVE AND WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH, REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENED.

THOSE INVOLVED IN SOLVING AN OPEN CRIMINAL HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION, WHO YOU CALL BUFFS, AREN'T INFLICTING ANY PAIN ON ANYTONE OTHER THAN THOSE WHO HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE.

AND I DON'T THINK THE TIPPITS REQUIRE A DC PR PRO TO PROTECT THEM FROM THE PAIN.

BK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IF TIPPIT WAS MURDERED BY THE SAME FELLA THEY SAY KILLED THE PRESIDENT, THEN HE IS MOST CERTAINLY INVOLVED IN THE CRIME REGARDLESS OF HIS INNOCENCE OR WHAT HIS FAMILY THINKS ABOUT IT.

Bill, the word you're looking for (avoiding?) is "victim."

WHY SHOULD ANYONE BE MORE CONCERNED WITH THE SENSITIVITIES OF ONE VICTIM'S FAMILY AND NOT THE OTHERS - THE KENNEDY FAMILY, OSWALD FAMILY, CONNALLY FAMILY?

Because you're not interested in how he died; you're interested in proving he was a co-conspirator. If I were a Tippitt, that would piss me off greatly.

THE TIPPITS ARE A COP FAMILY AND THEY CAN DEAL WITH IT.

Deal with what? Character assassination? The guy has to die twice?

I'M SURE SOME OF THE TIPPIT GRANDKIDS AND COUSINS, LIKE THE OSWALD GIRLS AND KENNEDY KIDS, ARE INQUISITIVE AND WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH, REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENED.

The distance between you and the truth is like the distance between the Earth and the moon.

THOSE INVOLVED IN SOLVING AN OPEN CRIMINAL HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION, WHO YOU CALL BUFFS, AREN'T INFLICTING ANY PAIN ON ANYTONE OTHER THAN THOSE WHO HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE.

Why not share your theories with the Tippitts in person? I'll get the bodybag ready.

Please disengage this button the next time you post:

235-796-Caps_Lock.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LHO would have died in a hail of bullets. The story would have ended right there, and we

wouldn't be having this conversation.

...And Micky and Minnie would be knocking back virgin daquiris at the Havana Disneyland...

B)

Edited by Cliff Varnell
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The "snap" that McDonald heard - the misfire that ceased to exist by the time the bullets got to DC but which at least three cops testified to - was supposed to have been the shot that killed him. Imagine a loud bang! in the theater and McDonald falling over, wounded at best. LHO would have died in a hail of bullets. The story would have ended right there, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Unfortunately (but fortunately for McDonald!), the bullet was a dud and thence to Plan B, which was concocted on the fly because nobody thought it would really be needed.

That's an intriguing scenario. That may well have been what went wrong. But I recall reading a while back that Oswald's gun was defective and could not have fired a shot in any case. Not very good planning if he was expected to shoot McDonald or some other cop in the theater and then get shot.

Edited by Ron Ecker
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The "snap" that McDonald heard - the misfire that ceased to exist by the time the bullets got to DC but which at least three cops testified to - was supposed to have been the shot that killed him. Imagine a loud bang! in the theater and McDonald falling over, wounded at best. LHO would have died in a hail of bullets. The story would have ended right there, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Unfortunately (but fortunately for McDonald!), the bullet was a dud and thence to Plan B, which was concocted on the fly because nobody thought it would really be needed.

That's an intriguing scenario. That may well have been what went wrong. But I recall reading a while back that Oswald's gun was defective and could not have fired a shot in any case. Not very good planning if he was expected to shoot McDonald or some other cop in the theater and then get shot.

Methinks you missed something up there. Did I say anything to the effect of Oswald pulling a trigger? I didn't think so. Do you know what happened to the gun afterward in terms of determining if his finger had ever been on the trigger ... ever? That makes for an even more intriguing scenario which, unfortunately, dovetails neatly into the one above. It's actually all on record ....
Link to comment
Share on other sites

BILL KELLY SAYS:

IF TIPPIT WAS MURDERED BY THE SAME FELLA THEY SAY KILLED THE PRESIDENT, THEN HE IS MOST CERTAINLY INVOLVED IN THE CRIME REGARDLESS OF HIS INNOCENCE OR WHAT HIS FAMILY THINKS ABOUT IT.

BRENDAN SLAT TRANSLATES THIS TO:

Because you're not interested in how he died; you're interested in proving he was a co-conspirator.

HOW AM I NOT INTERESTED IN HOW HE DIED? HOW AM I INTERESTED IN PROVING HE WAS A CO-CONSPIRATOR? YOU ARE MAKING THIS UP AND ATTRIBUTING IT TO ME.

If I were a Tippitt, that would piss me off greatly.

NOW YOU'RE PISSING ME OFF GREATLY.

Deal with what? Character assassination? The guy has to die twice?

HOW DID I ASSASSINATE THE CHARACTER OF TIPPIT? BY SAYING THAT IF THE SAME PERSON WHO KILLED HIM IS ACCUSED OF KILLING THE PRESIDENT THE TWO CRIMES ARE CONNECTED?

The distance between you and the truth is like the distance between the Earth and the moon.

Why not share your theories with the Tippitts in person? I'll get the bodybag ready.

Please disengage this button the next time you post:

235-796-Caps_Lock.jpg

I'M TELEGRAPHING IT YOU SO YOU GET THE MESSAGE. I'LL TALK TO YOU CIVILY WHEN YOU STOP MAKING IDIOTIC POSTS AND QUIT ATTRIBUTING FALSE STATEMENTS TO ME.

BK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BILL KELLY SAYS:

HOW AM I INTERESTED IN PROVING HE WAS A CO-CONSPIRATOR? YOU ARE MAKING THIS UP AND ATTRIBUTING IT TO ME.

Not so, Billy. Take a good look at this loathsome post:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...ress&st=30#

Seems to me you're very interested in Tippit's "suspicious" movements and associates. Oh, and the pregnant waitress rumor? Verrryy classy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BILL KELLY SAYS:

HOW AM I INTERESTED IN PROVING HE WAS A CO-CONSPIRATOR? YOU ARE MAKING THIS UP AND ATTRIBUTING IT TO ME.

Not so, Billy. Take a good look at this loathsome post:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...ress&st=30#

Seems to me you're very interested in Tippit's "suspicious" movements and associates. Oh, and the pregnant waitress rumor? Verrryy classy.

Brendan wants to lecture Bill on classy posts. What hypocrisy. Slattery described the ease of shooting jfk due to his "big bulbous head". It's almost as if Slattery was salivating to do the job himself...Slattery further exposes his jackassedness by pointing to a post where he questions why the forum is so politically oriented when B.S. himself racks up more insults and right wing jibba-jabba than anyone here. Why? The dude don't know Sh!t about the JFK assassination. He doesn't read scientific studies, he parrots links only to McAdams site and he REALLY goes after the women on the forum because he's a complete tool.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
What difference does it make to Tippit's possible involvement whether Ruby knew Oswald?  Do you mean that Tippit knew Ruby, or that Tippit knew Oswald?

Eva Grant said that Ruby knew Tippit. As Grant was Ruby's sister this information needs to be taken seriously. The point that Buchanan is making is that Oswald, Ruby and Tippit were all involved in the original conspiracy. Most researchers are if the opinion that Ruby was only involved in the cover-up.

When Ruby mentioned Tippit's death, he said how sorry he was to hear of "Slick's" death.

How does one call Officer Tippit by an obvious nickname, "Slick", if he did not know him personally?

Just one more little slip that allows the truth to trickle out...no matter how deeply the B. S. has been spread.

Chuck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What difference does it make to Tippit's possible involvement whether Ruby knew Oswald?  Do you mean that Tippit knew Ruby, or that Tippit knew Oswald?
Eva Grant said that Ruby knew Tippit. As Grant was Ruby's sister this information needs to be taken seriously. The point that Buchanan is making is that Oswald, Ruby and Tippit were all involved in the original conspiracy. Most researchers are if the opinion that Ruby was only involved in the cover-up.

When Ruby mentioned Tippit's death, he said how sorry he was to hear of "Slick's" death.

How does one call Officer Tippit by an obvious nickname, "Slick", if he did not know him personally?

Just one more little slip that allows the truth to trickle out...no matter how deeply the B. S. has been spread.

Chuck

Chuck,

There were two "Tippits" (phonetic) on DPD ... but the other was spelled Tippett. I don't recall the details offhand, but I recall that the latter was assigned downtown and frequented the Carousel. The pronunciation being the same, it is easy to understand how one could be confused with the other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There were two "Tippits" (phonetic) on DPD ... but the other was spelled Tippett. I don't recall the details offhand, but I recall that the latter was assigned downtown and frequented the Carousel. The pronunciation being the same, it is easy to understand how one could be confused with the other. (Duke Lane)

There was an Accident Investigator named W.W. Tippett. This is him below.

James

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='James Richards' date='Aug 29 2006, 08:31 AM' post='73362']

There were two "Tippits" (phonetic) on DPD ... but the other was spelled Tippett. I don't recall the details offhand, but I recall that the latter was assigned downtown and frequented the Carousel. The pronunciation being the same, it is easy to understand how one could be confused with the other. (Duke Lane)

There was an Accident Investigator named W.W. Tippett. This is him below.

James

James:

You NEVER cease to amaze me. Your photo colection has to be the best I have ever seen. You must have some very "deep" sources. Not asking you to reveal any, just commenting, marvelling really, on on your production ability.

Dawn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...