Harvey and Lee: John Armstrong

[David Josephs]

The facts are, you guys guessed what 3835 meant, had to be hounded to get evidence to support your guesses, and your guesses were wrong. 3835 was not a code for "Japan" or a hospital in Japan. It was the location of a Navy Base. It was where Oswald was based. It was a virtual "home address" - a common piece of information on medical records. Now if only you guys can pony up with the evidence that Oswald could not be treated on the Skagit for NON-VENEREAL gonnorhea, you'll be a step closer to proving your point.

Otherwise it looks like you're just guessing he couldn't or didn't.

Work harder? Not my job to prove YOUR case, Jim. Good luck!

Nope, it's your job to remain consistently wrong about every bit of rebuttal theory you offer and STILL never offer a shred of supporting evidence. We don't have to prove anything - YOU claim he was treated on the ship - YOU prove it or are you really that bad at this that we need to do that work for you as well? oh, wait, we DID do that work for you... can't see the forest for the trees again?

We've proven our case - you and the brigade staring wide-eyed into the headlights does nothing to prove yours. Two men, one in Ping Tung, one in Atsugi.. proving other wise is your job, not ours.

And so far, like the marines just taking the word of the soldier, you have proven nothing, offered nothing and can't seem to wrap your head around the fact all you have are theories about Asperger's and tonsils... and even those are not proven, only some small percentage of possibility... and yet y'all continue to post as if you've accomplished something other than show you have nothing to offer...

Well done

------------------------------------

I posted the medical records with that location number along with other identifiers and said that the records seem to show that he is consistently at Atsugi..

Steve picked up the ball and confirms this. and rather than the minion brigade admit they were wrong about the records and your conclusions you once again whine about us providing evidence when you provide none, consistently.

I also posted that numerous people report seeing and interacting with Oswald in Ping Tung, yet the DoD and HSCA tries to claim he never went. And that remains the central theme to their argument... As usual, wring again.

Donovan, ex-FBI, tries to distance himself from Oswald overseas by claiming he was his superior only in CA... and we find that to be false.

Wonder why the FBI and the WC never called all these people stationed with LEE, yet gets statements from those with Harvey at every turn... hmmmm

The ball remains in the doubters court... we'll see if they ever show up with actual proof of any of their "alternate theories" - the expectation to "trust them" has worn exceedingly thin

Edited May 29, 2015 by David Josephs

[David Josephs]

But really, David, please answer my main question: what is your interpretation of the Simpich Mole Hunt?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Well, David Josephs, I said it before, and I'll say it again: Bill Simpich's 2014 discovery of a high-level CIA Mole Hunt in the summer of 1963 in Mexico City on the subject of Lee Harvey Oswald, marks a new starting point for JFK Research. IMHO, nobody's opinion matters anymore until they give their opinion about Bill SImpich's scholarly discovery.

You’re entitled to your opinions Paul… but defining the playing field is not within your purview. That work, like most everything within JFK-world requires quite a lot of attention and analysis before it is understood well enough to express an educated and informed opinion. But I do agree that it does change the way we will look at those events... just as the presentation of the fraudulent travel evidence hopefully gets people to stop assuming the man Ruby killed was ever there.

It's very interesting to me that you have personally worked with Bill SImpich, David, because IMHO his work is so central to the future of JFK Research.

What is your interpretation of the Simpich Mole Hunt, David?

I think, that given the way the FBI assisted the CIA & State Dept by creating a false evidence trail, even in the face of Hoover’s first-hand knowledge that it was not Oswald in any evidence the CIA/State provided (not his voice, not his photo, not on the buses, maybe not even there at all) that some operation was being run using the marked “HENRY” 201 card to find out who knew what about the goings on at the embassies.

We don’t agree on everything yet I must defer to his knowledge of the inner workings down there. If we all agree that Tampa and Chicago would require its own levels of planning and cover-up, the use of Lee HENRY Oswald appears to have a dual if not triple purpose. 1) mole hunt, 2)FPCC credibility for Oswald, 3)incriminating “patsy” evidence when presented in that light… all depending on what was needed.

The Mole Hunt aspect is in no way related to the assassination other than for the use of LHO… in my understanding of it at this point… “sometime you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right” the looking at right part - the POV – is very critical.

Here are my follow-up remarks about that question:

(1) The Double-Oswald branch of the CIA-did-it JFK Conspiratorial writers seems to be the logical result of a consistent CIA-did-it hypothesis.

Y'all make more consistent use of more testimonial artifacts, and consistently find a CIA plot inside each and every one, than anybody. In fact, it sometimes seems that every CIA-did-it writer will eventually gravitate to your direction in the long run.

(2) The only alternative will then be to subordinate the CIA-did-it findings to some other Conspiracy -- perhaps a Civilian Conspiracy. Yet that may be just what the second half-century of JFK Research needs.

(3) IMHO, Bill Simpich's Mole Hunt can be easily interpreted to show that the CIA high-command was unaware of the Oswald Impersonation -- and therefore the CIA had no clue that Oswald was being set-up to be the Patsy for a Conspiracy.

(4) Finally, all this minutia about tonsils doesn't distract me in the slightest -- because what you're really fighting about is your primary operating principle, namely, that the CIA has to be to blame for every detail of the Mexico City episode of Lee Harvey Oswald. Prove me wrong?

Paul – my work did just that, proves you wrong. Every detail of the Mexico Episode is told in mostly FBI and some State and I&NS docs… the CIA kept Mexico info very close to the vest and was one of the main reasons Sprague was fired. Even the CIA’s info appears instead in the FBI reports, not in original CIA reports.

In fact, the CIA did a lot of summaries of what was supposedly know when… in light of this the CIA never shared this info with the FBI...

IMO Mexico starts out as one thing and fast becomes another - IMO Phillips is the cause of Alvarado's story... and everyone in the CIA and State Dept knew it...

The tonsils argument is simply a very lame attempt at being annoyed that John wrote “impossible” as opposed to allowing for some remote chance they grew back. Hurray for the minions, they got one 6.1% right. Whatever.

But really, David, please answer my main question: what is your interpretation of the Simpich Mole Hunt?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Bernie Laverick]

"We don't have to prove anything - YOU claim he was treated on the ship - YOU prove it or are you really that bad at this that we need to do that work for you as well?"

"We don't have to prove anything."

And there you have it. A perfect insight into why these flame wars occur. David believes that once you have a theory, any theory, the onus is not on the proponent to back it up with factual evidence but on the detractors to find ABSOLUTE PROOF that their narrative is incorrect.

It goes like this...

Fetzer says ALL the photographic records have been tampered with. So in David Joseph's world we must accept this to be true until we can refute, with absolute proof, EVERY single photo anomaly. Until that is done on a photo by photo basis we must have to accept that Fetzer's theory is correct. BS!

Just because I haven't microscopically examined EVERY single photo and EVERY single frame in the photographic record my objection to that ridiculous theory is still valid. The onus is on Fetzer to provide the absolute proof. Not me! But Joseph's logic insists we must embrace it, and regard it as a truth, until every pixel has been discussed, debated, analysed and anguished over for a decade or two.

That's what the H&L group want to do here. Bog us all down in minutiae.

They've laid out a very intricate trench system and with typical siege mentality are bunkering themselves down on the basis that as long as there's no direct hit - they've won the war.

It gets to a point where its worthless debating with them.

Thankfully I have a life.

[David Josephs]

Bernie - are you so severely adle-minded that you don't realize you just described the last 50 years of JFK analysis and research?

Just because I haven't microscopically examined EVERY single photo and EVERY single frame in the photographic record my objection to that ridiculous theory is still valid.

If you even did 1% of the work you just described you'd at least have some frame of reference from which to comment... but you didn't.

Your Objection is simply that... an woefully uniformed opinion about that which you refuse to study in any detail... kinda pathetic, thinking that kind of approach will result in agreement from those who have not yet concluded anything... those that already agree with you...agree with you. Those that don't are obviously not convinced...

Can you imagine what you would say to a poster who claimed what you just did about the JFK analysis...

Why bother with the autopsy boys... he died, case closed

Why bother with 486 frames...

Why bother with the actual evidence at all - the FBI says Oswald did it alone... why are you questioning this so obvious a conclusion?

Do us all a favor and go back to that life you thankfully have... the one you offer here is terrible pathetic, uninformed and woefully inadequate for supporting a word you utter....

Yet here you remain, worthlessly debating... you see Bernie, it's only worthless to you because you lose so badly every time... to those who have sent me the emails of support and reassurance of how lame you and the other's present your case, it is completely worthwhile for you to continue to be exposed for the rolling, trolling forum disruption you've all decided to become here.

Anyone can look back over these few threads and see you and the others being painfully beaten over and over again - 6.1% of 5 years old within 30 months Bernie... you do understand that means 93.9% AGAINST what you claim... that's more than a 15 to 1 difference... even at the lottery that's a bad bet. and yet rather then offer a different study with real facts, you whine about it...

Can you even begin to address the height difference from 1959 to 1963? How does a man grow 3 inches to then shrink 2 all before he's 24?

[Greg Parker]

Your Objection is simply that... an woefully uniformed opinion about that which you refuse to study in any detail... kinda pathetic, David Josephs

Ah, so you too believe that EVERY single photograph in the entire case has been tampered with!!! I should have known.

And you honestly believe that to object to that is a "woefully uniformed opinion"?

It's impossible communicating with that level of blinkered, almost sociopathic, self righteous arrogance.

Bernie, I thought it was a particularly nice touch where he threw in about the silent majority emailing their support.

I kind of figured he would refuse to do the work he should do, so as usual, I've done it for him. I located a former Skagit crew member for comment and am trying to track down others in case he doesn't get nack to me.

There is also a comment in one of those medical reports supposedly made at Atsugi which does not fit with Atsugi but does fit what he was doing at Taiwain.

[Steven Gaal]

At issue are medical records which have a stamp on top that says EAST CAMP. Its really the simpler solution that papers saying EAST CAMP are not from a a floating ship but a land base.

THATS pure common sense. Why would the sick bay of a ship have stamped EAST CAMP ?? ANSWER >>>>> IT WOULDNT. // gaal

------------------------------------------------------

Common sense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense

Wikipedia

Common sense is a basic ability to perceive, understand, and judge things, which is shared by ("common to") nearly all people, and can be reasonably expected of nearly all people without any need for debate.

[Greg Parker]

By the way, David, have you heard back from Prof. Lee yet?

[Greg Parker]

At issue are medical records which have a stamp on top that says EAST CAMP. Its really the simpler solution that papers saying EAST CAMP are not from a a floating ship but a land base.

THATS pure common sense. Why would the sick bay of a ship have stamped EAST CAMP ?? ANSWER >>>>> IT WOULDNT. // gaal

------------------------------------------------------

Common sense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense

Wikipedia

Common sense is a basic ability to perceive, understand, and judge things, which is shared by ("common to") nearly all people, and can be reasonably expected of nearly all people without any need for debate.

Where about's was the clinic, Steve?

In which camp was LHO living, Steve?

[Greg Parker]

chronology does not stop at entering Marines = PARKER needs correction // Gaal

Steve, for the love of God and all that is decent, round that kangaroo up.

Of course there was a Marines chronology. It just wasn't written by Ely.

Here again is what you posted.

Yes I see it obviously does show two Oswalds. The Warren Commission even in a memo shows that they have to make adjustment to military data.

see http://harveyandlee.net/Ely.htm In the memo Jenner speaks of the need for "material alteration' in the military record, this is LAWYER SPEAK for LIE.

Yes the Warren Commission record admits to .....FRAUD !!! So Parker basis his military data on .....F R A U... // Gaal

The only frauds here are you and your cohorts.

Or will you claim you just never bothered reading your link?

Let me type it out for you since you need spoon feeding.

The chronology Ely did was from "the fall of 1929 to the time Lee Harvey Oswald entered Military service in October, 1956, "

Since changes were only suggested for the chronology done be Ely - NO CHANGES WERE - OR COULD HAVE BEEN - SUGGESTED FOR ANY MILITARY RECORDS.

Got it now??? I hope so, cos I'm getting a bit tired of this BS from you and Josephs.

Well?

Still waiting for a response, Steve...? Anyone...?

Too hard?

[Steven Gaal]

Steven Gaal, on 29 May 2015 - 5:55 PM, said:

At issue are medical records which have a stamp on top that says EAST CAMP. Its really the simpler solution that papers saying EAST CAMP are not from a a floating ship but a land base.

THATS pure common sense. Why would the sick bay of a ship have stamped EAST CAMP ?? ANSWER >>>>> IT WOULDNT. // gaal

------------------------------------------------------

Common sense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense

Wikipedia

Common sense is a basic ability to perceive, understand, and judge things, which is shared by ("common to") nearly all people, and can be reasonably expected of nearly all people without any need for debate. GAAL

=======================

Where about's was the clinic, Steve? PARKER QUESTION

In which camp was LHO living, Steve? PARKER QUESTION

==============================================================

NAF Atsugi, Japan ((ANSWER Atsugi Japan) see enlarged font in red below, gaal)

A little history might be a fitting tribute to NAF Atsugi, now the U.S. Navy's largest and most important carrier base in Asia.

The 1,249 acres of Naval Air Facility Atsugi lies in the heart of the Kanto Plain on the main island of Japan, Honshu. The base was originally built in 1938 by the Japanese Imperial Navy as Emperor Hirohito's Kamikaza Naval Air Base. The base handled 48 carrier fighters who flew out to ships ported at Yokosuka and 12 night fighters used to defend the skies over the Kanto Plain. This base was used to train the Emperor's pilots, the 302nd Naval Aviation Corps, who flying their Zero and Gekko fighters, were the most formidable factor in Japan's air defense during World War II, as was the 1st and 2nd Sagamino Naval Air Group. The Atsugi Airdrome, as it was called then, under Commander Yasuna Kozono, was the top aviation base in Japan and only the best pilots flew from here. But despite their efforts on August 15, 1945 Emperor Hirohito announced to the world that Japan would surrended unconditionally. Hearing this, Kozono and the Kamikaze pilots, who vowed to defend mainland Japan "to the end," revolted and held the base captive for seven days. Realizing that surrender was a reality the Kamikaze pilots took off in 33 planes for their final destination known only to themselves and God.

General Douglas MacArthur landed at the Japanese Imperial Navy's "Atsugi Airdrome" in August 1945, bringing the occupation troops to the Japanese mainland. Atsugi then came under the control of the U.S. Army and endured a five-year period of virtual disuse. The Eighth U.S. Army's small Replacement Training Center, closed in 1949, was about the only thing going.

But then the North Korean communists invaded the Republic of Korea in June 1950. NAF Yokosuka was closest to the scene of battle. The Yokosuka runway had belonged to the Navy after the Japanese surrender, but the buildings, hangars and landing area had gradually been turned over to the U.S. Army. By 1950, the Yokosuka site was nothing more than a beachhead for a few seaplanes. In all of Japan, there was no Naval aviation installation. Something had to be done - and quickly,

Prodded by Korea, the Commander in Chief, U.S. Pacific Fleet quickly chose Atsugi as the one major United States Naval air station in the Far East. In October, Navy Mobile Construction Battalion Two arrived. Lieutenant Commander W.J. McFarland, MCB-2's commanding officer, and his 12 men found a dilapidated base. The runway, of poor construction to begin with, was potholed and useless. The 220 buildings on the 1200-acre base were in a shambles.

By November, elements of Fleet Aircraft Squadron 11 joined MCB-2 here and began constructing a 6000-foot runway atop the former airstrip. The configuration of the base is the same today as it was during WWII.

NAF Atsugi was formally commissioned Dec. 1, 1950, and Patrol Squadron Six became the first unit to operate from here. Soon after, a detachment of Fleet Aircraft Squadron 120, based near Yokosuka, was ordered to Atsugi. Commander Fleet Air, Japan, Rear Admiral G.R. Henderson, moved his headquarters from Tokyo to Atsugi in April 1951. Squadrons in the VP, VU and VS categories began rotating in and out.

Atsugi mushroomed into a true military aviation community with the completion of a new photo lab, control tower and parachute loft. By November 1951, the first family members arrived. Recreational facilities were added, including a bowling center, a station theater and a swimming pool - all still in use today.

During 1953 and 1954, a large number of units moved to Atsugi to provide necessary fleet services. They included Marine Aircraft Group 11 which moved into the East Camp, returned to the Japanese in 1971, East Camp is now a Japanese park outside the East Gate. By September 1955, MAG-11 had 94 aircraft and over 2,000 officers and men.

In November 1954, Rear Admiral J.M. Carson, who wore two hats as Commander Fleet Air Japan and Commander, Naval Air Bases Japan, picked up a third "cover" when Commander, Fleet Air Western Pacific was established and headquartered at Atsugi. That position still exists, but has been downsized.

In early 1955, additional units of the First Marine Aircraft Wing were withdrawn from Korea and based at Atsugi. By this time, the total on-board count was 4,745. At one point there were as many as 250 aircraft here. By comparison, CARRIER AIR WING FIVE, the USS KITTY HAWK's air wing and today's major tenant, has about 78 aircraft.

The station remained the same for a few years, with the U.S. Marines slightly outnumbering Navy people. The biggest change came in 1957 when high-performance jet aircraft replaced older models. New planes included the F3H Demon, F4D Skyray, F8U Crusader, FJ-4 Fury and F11F Tiger. Mobile arresting gear provided an option for stopping aircraft when the runway was wet. Aviation activity remained basically unchanged until July 1965, when MAG-11 was officially transferred to MCAS Iwakuni.

In September 1966, a milestone was recorded when Ground Controlled Approach Unit 26 talked down its 150,000th aircraft here. The landing was made by a Fleet Logistics Support Squadron 21, Atsugi Detachment C-1A. Around this time, Atsugi was also home to Helicopter Combat Support Squadron SEVEN, whose aviators won numerous awards during the Vietnam Conflict, including the Congressional Medal of Honor.

As the '60s closed, the NAS was phasing down and the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force (JMSDF) was moving in. It was agreed that the base would be shared by aviation elements of both nations. Atsugi became a naval air facility in 1971, but is actually larger than many Stateside naval air stations. At that time, JMSDF planes, mostly patrol, began to account for a large number of flights. The airstrip was and remains today under the administrative control of the JMSDF. Incidently, the JMSDF has no carriers and no carrier borne planes.

The pace at Atsugi quickened when carriers pulled into Yokosuka. Many of the embarked aircraft flew to NAF Atsugi for maintenance. In 1973 when the USS MIDWAY was home-ported at Yokosuka, Atsugi became a support base for her planes. Simultaneously, the area around Atsugi, originally wooded farmland, begin to undergo a population explosion as the area became a full-fledged suburb of Yokohama,10 miles away.

When the USS INDEPENDENCE replaced the MIDWAY in 1991, Atsugi became the home of Indy's air wing. Also, in 1991, faced with mounting community opposition to the noise of field carrier landing practice, FCLP was moved to the island of Iwo Jima, 700 miles away. The bulk of FCLP now occurs there. Today, with CVW 5 here, the base population is around 8,000 people. The air wing's assets include F/A-18C Hornets, A-6 Intruders, EA-6B Prowlers, S-3B Vikings, E-2C Hawkeyes, F-14 Tomcats and SH-60F helicopters. When Subic Bay and NAS Cubi in the Philippines closed, NAF Atsugi, once a sleepy hollow, emerged as the premier Naval air base remaining in the Pacific.

In August 1998, USS KITTY HAWK replaced USS INDEPENDENCE. NAF Atsugi provides much for the Sailors, family members and employees who come aboard. We strive each day to foster good relation and friendships while maintaining freedom we all enjoy. It's currently under the command of Captain Kevin P.McNamara. (adapted by Mrs. Geralyn S. Noah, Public Affairs Officer, NAF Atsugi from historical documents.

==================================

http://www.military.com/HomePage/UnitPageHistory/1,13506,203362%7C701036,00.html

Edited May 30, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[Greg Parker]

So your answer is that Oswald was in the East Camp and that was also where the clinic was?

Is that your answer?

[Steven Gaal]

Why would the sick bay of a ship have stamped EAST CAMP ?? ANSWER >>>>> IT WOULDNT. // gaal

Maybe hand written but not stamped . Stamping indicates origin of clinic papers (and its not sick bay of a ship). Gaal

Edited May 30, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[Greg Parker]

Why would the sick bay of a ship have stamped EAST CAMP ?? ANSWER >>>>> IT WOULDNT. // gaal

Maybe hand written but not stamped . Stamping indicates origin of clinic papers (and its not sick bay of a ship). Gaal

Non responsive.

It is your claim that Oswald never left Atsugi and was being treated in a clinic there.

Since that is your claim, it is reasonable to expect you know in which camp Oswald was based and where the clinic was. If you know the answers, provide them. If you don't know, then simply admit you don't know. Pretty easy really.

[Steven Gaal]

Non responsive.

It is your claim that Oswald never left Atsugi and was being treated in a clinic there.

Since that is your claim, it is reasonable to expect you know in which camp Oswald was based and where the clinic was. If you know the answers, provide them. If you don't know, then simply admit you don't know. Pretty easy really. PARKER QUESTION

=============================================

ANSWER GAAL // CILINIC located EAST CAMP SECTION OF Atsugi, Japan MAIN BASE . NEVER SAID HE DIDNT LEAVE JAPAN, JUST THAT HE WASNT IN TAWAIN TILL at least SEPT 30th.

see http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19762&p=303951 POST # 229 this thread

TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 16th officially on boat CONTRADICTION
TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 20 officially on boat CONTRADICTION
TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 22 officially on boat CONTRADICTION
TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 23 officially on boat CONTRADICTION
TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 29th officially on boat CONTRADICTION
TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 30th officially arrived in Taiwan SEPT 30th CONTRADICTION
===================
It is possible that if he took a plane SEPT 30th and he could have been given medical treatment in Japan and Tawain. BUT records show he was treated in Japan SEP 30th.

000000000000000000000000000000000

Why would the sick bay of a ship have stamped EAST CAMP ?? ANSWER >>>>> IT WOULDNT. // gaal

Maybe hand written but not stamped . Stamping indicates origin of clinic papers is in Japan (and its not sick bay of a ship). Gaal

Edited May 30, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[Greg Parker]

Non responsive.

It is your claim that Oswald never left Atsugi and was being treated in a clinic there.

Since that is your claim, it is reasonable to expect you know in which camp Oswald was based and where the clinic was. If you know the answers, provide them. If you don't know, then simply admit you don't know. Pretty easy really. PARKER QUESTION

=============================================

ANSWER GAAL // CILINIC located EAST CAMP SECTION OF Atsugi, Japan MAIN BASE

see http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19762&p=303951 POST # 229 this thread

TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 16th officially on boat CONTRADICTION

TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 20 officially on boat CONTRADICTION

TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 22 officially on boat CONTRADICTION

TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 23 officially on boat CONTRADICTION

TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 29th officially on boat CONTRADICTION

TREATED IN JAPAN SEPT 30th officially arrived in Taiwan SEPT 30th CONTRADICTION

===================

It is possible that if he took a plane SEPT 30th and he could have been given medical treatment in Japan and Tawain. BUT records show he was treated in Japan SEP 30th.

000000000000000000000000000000000

Why would the sick bay of a ship have stamped EAST CAMP ?? ANSWER >>>>> IT WOULDNT. // gaal

Maybe hand written but not stamped . Stamping indicates origin of clinic papers in Japan (and its not sick bay of a ship). Gaal

Can you provide a quote from that linked post? I can find nothing in it that states the clinic was in the East Camp.

And you haven't even attempted to answer in which camp Oswald was living.