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Trajectory Analysis and the Assassination of JFK


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Ron Ecker Posted Yesterday, 05:35 PM

QUOTE(Antti Hynonen @ Mar 29 2006, 06:19 AM)

Why was the body not received in the same coffin in Bethesda as it had been placed in, in Dallas?

How did the body get placed in a zip up plastic body bag, when it wasn't put into one in Dallas?

Why are there such different recollections regarding the head wounds on the body?

We know that there was a decoy ambulance and at least two caskets used. And we know that JFK's body was moved from one casket to the other, apparently on Air Force One. There is no other explanation for the information provided to the HSCA by Lt. Richard Lipsey, aide to General Wehle, Commanding General of the Military District of Washington, whose office handled all military ceremonial functions in DC.

Lipsey told the HSCA that he and General Wehle and an honor guard met the body at Andrew AFB and placed it in a hearse. This was obviously not the ambulance that met the Parkland casket on TV and in which Jackie rode with the Dallas casket to Bethesda. Lipsey's party received a casket on the other side of the plane. This secretly removed casket would have contained the body, as the ambulance in public view with Jackie would obviously have been the decoy ambulance. A decoy that is secret is not a decoy.

But Lipsey himself was in the dark as to what was going on. As he, Wehle, and the honor guard took helicopters to Bethesda to be there when the casket arrived, Lipsey thought that both ambulances were in the motorcade to Bethesda. He insisted in an interview by Lifton that there was only one casket, the one that he met at Andrews. He apparently thought Jackie was riding in an empty decoy ambulance, or in some other vehicle, which of course is not true. (I think Jackie was in the dark too, as I find it hard to believe that she would knowingly accompany an empty casket instead of the casket that contained her husband's body.)

Lipsey says that he helped unload the casket at the rear of Bethesda when it arrived. So we have yet another casket arrival at the rear of Bethesda besides the one that O'Neill and Sibert have told about, and the one that Dennis David has told about. Lipsey also insisted to Lifton that it was a regular big casket and not a shipping casket, but I question that for two reasons. One, if a second casket had been slipped aboard AF1, it would have logically been a more easily concealed shipping casket and not a big thing like the one supposedly containing the body. Second, it is clear from Lifton's account that Lipsey became upset with the line of questioning and became short with Lifton, and thus may have said "Yes" to end the discussion when Lifton asked if it was a regular casket and not a shipping casket.

In any case, a casket switch took place on AF1 (unless the body was already in a second casket that was sneaked aboard the plane, in which case a switch somehow occurred at Parkland), and the body was taken by a different route than the motorcade to Bethesda. If body alteration took place (and what other reason could there be for two caskets and for duping even Lipsey?), there was time to do some fast butchery either on AF1, in the ambulance ride between Andrews and Bethesda, or at some point (such as Walter Reed) in between.

Pat Speer Posted Yesterday, 07:10 PM

It's a lot easier to kill someone, even the President of the United States, than many would like us to believe.

Since Humes et al supposedly lied about the "surgery to the head", why not just have them lie about the wounds?

I'd be interested in seeing a list of EVERYONE who claims they saw the casket, when they say they saw it, what it supposedly looked like, and what Kennedy's body was wrapped in when it was removed. From what I've been able to gather, there is no consistent pattern to these memories. While one man will say he was in a shipping casket, the man right next to him at the time will say he was in a bronze casket. People's memories on relatively unimportant details just aren't very good. There were several Dealey witnesses who remembered Jackie wearing a white dress. Conjunction errors, conjunction errors, conjunction errors...

Gentlemen,

I am relying pretty much on the testimony of Mr. Aubrey Rike, ambulance driver of the O'Neal ambulance service in Dallas. His testimony on TMWKK seemed very clear, to the point - without hesitation he told what he had experienced that day. He went into detail in discussing the coffin, which was filmed on multiple occasions before, and whilst it was loaded onto AF 1.

Further I am relying on the testimony of the gentleman (whose name escapes me) who was the assistant at Bethesda during the autopsy. His testimony on TMWKK also seemed very honest and vivid.

I don't think that anyone who is somehow involved in the autospy or the transportation of the body of the President will suffer major memory loss and relate their experiences from that day very differently to what actually happened.

Please remember these men work with caskets, bodies and wounded victims all the time. They know how to distinguish shipping caskets from ornamented funeral caskets, and bodybags from sheets etc. If I were involved, I think I'd remember a lot more detail if I was dealing with a dead President than with just any old Jack.

The point is a lot of the information related by the Bethesda staff directly contradicts the information related by the Dallas witnesses. In fact, this entire case is so full of it, that I can't even understand how there can be doubts about a major cover up.

Edited by Antti Hynonen
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Lipsey told the HSCA that he and General Wehle and an honor guard met the body at Andrew AFB and placed it in a hearse. This was obviously not the ambulance that met the Parkland casket on TV and in which Jackie rode with the Dallas casket to Bethesda. Lipsey's party received a casket on the other side of the plane.

What I have assumed above from Lipsey's HSCA interview may not be true. Here is a photo

of the body being met at Andrews as seen by the public:

af1aafb.jpg

Two servicemen can be seen stationed under the tail section. A marine can be seen stationed on the other side of the lift. Would this be part of the honor guard that Lipsey referred to?

I had seen this photo before but associated these "sentries" with security and not with an honor guard, which I assumed would be there to transfer the casket from the plane to the hearse. As Lipsey stated, "The ceremonial troop in Washington had been arranged to meet the body at Andrews. Put it in a hearse" (italics added). But I don't recall seeing any photos that show an honor guard helping with the casket at Andrews. Here's one:

af1aafb2.jpg

Any thoughts or opinions appreciated.

Ron

Edited by Ron Ecker
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  • 1 month later...

On Saturday Sherry added that one possible location was the Post Office building. Any thoughts on this?

I don't see how a shot from that angle would have blown out the right rear of his head. Seems to me that a shot from there would have hit him in top of the head and blown off his right ear.

Hi Ron,

May I ask you to do something for me?

Draw an oval (skull) and mark where you (personally) believe Kennedy's entry and exit wounds to be.

Look at whatever photographs you have on hand and see if you can determine where in the limo Kennedy was facing (disregard the downward nod for a moment). For instance was he facing the limo hood ornament, the steering wheel, the left side mirror, etc.?

Look at whatever photographs you have on hand and see if you can determine where the limo facing or headed at the time of the headshot; the grassy knoll, the underpass, the south knoll?

Take a overhead photo or map of Dealey Plaza and draw in the limo. Draw a line showing where the limo was facing. Now draw a line where Kennedy was facing. Now using your wound locations, draw a line from the skull out into the plaza. You have just destermined where you believe the shooter was located.

Repeat the above steps with the entrance wound near the center or midline of the head, exiting just behind the ear.

Where is the shooter now?

Sherry

Sherry,

A very belated thanks for your discussion on this.

You said on the Lancer Forum over two years ago that you believed Al Carrier was correct in saying that the fatal head shot was fired from the south knoll. Since you have since suggested the Post Office building as the source of the shot, have you changed your view on Carrier's argument, or do you entertain both the south knoll and the PO building as possibilities? Do you consider one more likely than the other? Thanks,

Ron

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Hi Ron,

May I ask you to do something for me? Draw an oval (skull) and mark where you (personally) believe Kennedy's entry and exit wounds to be. Look at whatever photographs you have on hand and see if you can determine where in the limo Kennedy was facing (disregard the downward nod for a moment). For instance was he facing the limo hood ornament, the steering wheel, the left side mirror, etc.? Look at whatever photographs you have on hand and see if you can determine where the limo facing or headed at the time of the headshot; the grassy knoll, the underpass, the south knoll? Take a overhead photo or map of Dealey Plaza and draw in the limo. Draw a line showing where the limo was facing. Now draw a line where Kennedy was facing. Now using your wound locations draw a line from the skull out into the plaza. You have just determined where you believe the shooter was located. Repeat the above steps with the entrance wound near the center or midline of the head, exiting just behind the ear.

Where is the shooter now?

Sherry

Hi Ron,

I'm asking you again to do the little exercise I detailed above, but please allow me to provide you with a little assistance. post-4022-1146465813_thumb.jpg

This is a graphic of possible trajectories with trauma restricted to the right side of the head.

Next is this graphic that indicates the location of the limo at 313 and the direction Kennedy was facing.post-4022-1146466408_thumb.jpg

Canning's study found JFK was "turned partially away from Zapruder - approximately 25 degrees past the 90 degree, or profile, direction. (6HSCA38) Dale Myers's computer recreation found the orientation of JFK's head at Zapruder frame 312 to be turned away from Zapruder by 25.7 degrees. (jfkfiles.com)

So, if we place the limo in Dealey Plaza, draw a line from the place the President was seated, using those measurements...we get this: post-4022-1146467397_thumb.jpg

The dark pink line is the approximate direction Kennedy was facing. The shaded pink triangle represents the trajectory cone, or the possible location of the shooter. The cone I created is very conservative. Extreme shots (such as entering almost center of the head and exiting behind the ear) would widen the trajectory cone somewhat and encompass the postal building. I do not know where the shooter was located, but I do know he had to be within that trajectory cone. (I love math; it can't lie, forget, change its mind or be intimidated)

Ron, I am working on a more detailed, inclusive study I hope to publish in the fall. I’m going to be addressing the head flap and the forward and backward movement of the head in addition to the spatter and trajectory analysis. I may not post much more on the subject until that work is finished, but I perhaps I’ve given you some food for thought in reaching your own conclusions.

Warm regards,

Sherry

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perhaps I’ve given you some food for thought in reaching your own conclusions.

Sherry,

You certainly have. Thanks very much for the data. I admire your work and look forward to your study in the fall.

Ron

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  • 11 years later...

This picture was taken by me in January 2018, standing on the bridge over the triple overpass, about 20' from the south knoll. The "X" on the street representing the fatal head shot is under the first maroon car in the center lane.  It is also near one of a few 6' tall x 2' wide decorative columns of the bridge where a person could easily stand and rest a rifle on the ledge.  It's toward the left end of the "trajectory cone" shown above, where Main and Commerce come together, directly above where James Tague was standing between Main and Commerce at the overpass; if I was there that day I could have looked straight down and seen the top of his head.

It is the only location where a bullet could enter above JFK's right eye in the hairline towards the temple, and then exit from the right rear of the head as so many witnesses saw.  A shot from the north knoll would have exited the left rear of the head.

 

Dealey Plaza (5) sm.JPG

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Nice photo. I’ve read research supporting your post. How does this explain the movement of JFK’s body and head back and left?

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15 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Nice photo. I’ve read research supporting your post. How does this explain the movement of JFK’s body and head back and left?

Paul,

Thanks.  I was pretty focused on the trajectory and the path of the bullet.  I was also thinking about the back and to the left movement and it's tough to reconcile them.  I'm attaching a second pic from the same day, halfway down the longest portion of the picket fence on the north knoll.  It would sure solve the back and to the left motion but then (like I mentioned), the blowout would have been in the left rear of his head.

Maybe that back brace and the way he was slumped down with his head already leaning left in can account for the leftward motion?  Of course, both locations would make the head go backwards.

Dealey Plaza (6) sm.JPG

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Rick, I am in no way a expert in any of the fields required to make judgements in this case, but I have read extensively since around 1968 (not that I retain it all).  You might want to research a tangential strike to the right temple if the bullet were fired further down the fence line near the railroad bridge.  With the position of the car, JFK's head angle/tilt and an assassin at this location, I believe it quite possible this bullet path would or could cause the blow out at the right rear of the head and cause the "back and to the left" motion.  Bullets do not always go in a straight line after striking something as solid as a human skull.  I believe there would be a clear line past the middle pillar of the limo and nothing else in the way of the bullet if fired from this location.  It also would have the necessary height to cause a slightly downward angle to the lower back of the head considering the presidents head position.  I think this has been posited by others here as well as on the old JFK Lancer forum.  Just food for thought.

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2 minutes ago, Richard Price said:

Rick, I am in no way a expert in any of the fields required to make judgements in this case, but I have read extensively since around 1968 (not that I retain it all).  You might want to research a tangential strike to the right temple if the bullet were fired further down the fence line near the railroad bridge.  With the position of the car, JFK's head angle/tilt and an assassin at this location, I believe it quite possible this bullet path would or could cause the blow out at the right rear of the head and cause the "back and to the left" motion.  Bullets do not always go in a straight line after striking something as solid as a human skull.  I believe there would be a clear line past the middle pillar of the limo and nothing else in the way of the bullet if fired from this location.  It also would have the necessary height to cause a slightly downward angle to the lower back of the head considering the presidents head position.  I think this has been posited by others here as well as on the old JFK Lancer forum.  Just food for thought.

Good points Richard.  Add to this the fact that it was a frangible round that hit JFK in the head - supposedly fired after a full metal jacket round such as CE399 that was supposedly used in the MC by LHO - then the round would not stay intact for a straight / predictable path through the head.  I spent several minutes along all positions of the fence, on the bridge, at Zapruder's location and further down the fence makes more sense than midway down as the 2nd picture shows.  I was mostly wanting to provide current day perspective to the trajectory cone in the earlier post by Sherry Gutierrez.  It would be great if she was still around and could comment on the current pictures.
According to the WC, LHO was so good that he planned to use 3 rounds in a rifle whose (missing) clip holds 8.  And of those 3 rounds, he loaded them in such a way that the FMJ rounds would be shots #1 and 2 (the Tague miss and the magically pristine single bullet of CE399) and the frangible round planned for the head shot #3.  When I go to the range, the only time I am partially loading a magazine is if I'm down to less than what it can hold.  Otherwise, it's fully loaded with the same type of ammo, from the same box / manufacturer.

Thanks

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The missing clip.

The MC rifle didn't use a traditional box magazine, which is commonly but incorrectly called a clip. Instead the MC used what is often referred to as a "stripper clip." When the last round is fired from a stripper clip, it falls out of the rifle. 

Odd that the clip wasn't found on the 6th floor of the TSBD. Even more odd is the notion that the alleged assassin would recover the clip but not the spent rounds. Odd that no clip has been found in Oswald's possessions, on his person, on a bus, in a taxi, or anywhere else Oswald was alleged to have been on November 22, 1963. Odd that no 6.5 mm rounds were found in Oswald's possessions. Odd that no .38 rounds were found anywhere except on Oswald's person.

A lot of "odd" going on, IMHO.

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