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Did Specter badger a witness with a made-up report?


Pat Speer

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During the testimony of Darrell Tomlinson, after Tomlinson said he thought he found the so-called stretcher bullet on stretcher B, which he thought was in the hall before the arrival of Connally's stretcher, and which Specter knew from previous testimony did not match the description of Connally's stretcher, Specter went on a bit of a rampage, trying to get Tomlinson to admit he'd previously claimed he'd found the bullet on a stretcher taken from the elevator. This goes on for quite a while. Here is the pay-off.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, before I started to ask you questions under oath, which have been taken down here, I told you, did I not, that the Secret Service man wrote a report where he said that the bullet was found on the stretcher which you took off of the elevator---I called that to your attention, didn't I?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes; you told me that.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, after I tell you that, does that have any effect on refreshing your recollection of what you told the Secret Service man?
Mr. TOMLINSON. No it really doesn't---it really doesn't.

I've been looking most of the morning, however, and can't find the "report" to which Specter refers. The only SS reports on the bullet I've found are ones which make no commitment as to where the stretcher came from, but confirm the descriptions of the stretcher as that of stretcher B (which Tink Thompson identified as being the stretcher of Ronnie Fuller).

So, I ask, did Specter badger his witness into going along with a non-existent report?

I'm really curious about this. It seems totally possible such a report exists, as Tomlinson confirmed he'd been interviewed by the SS. But where is this report? Am I being blind? Was it made to disappear because it proved Specter had lied to a witness in order to get him to support the bullet came from Connally's stretcher?

I hope I'm just being blind. But suspect I am not.

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This doesn't help answer Pat Speer's question above about the AWOL Secret Service report, but I'll toss this in the pot for good measure anyway....

Two years later, in July 1966, Darrell Tomlinson told Ray Marcus that he found the bullet on the stretcher that he had taken off the elevator. ....

MARCUS -- "You think it was off the one that came off the elevator?"

TOMLINSON -- "I know it was."

Tomlinson also told Marcus that the bullet the FBI showed him after the assassination "appeared to be the same one" he had found on the Parkland stretcher on 11/22/63.

More here....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/12/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-74.html

Tomlinson also told CBS News in 1967 that the bullet was found on the stretcher taken off the elevator.

He then completely changed his mind when asked about it in 1988 for NOVA/PBS. In '88, Tomlinson was absolutely positive that he found the bullet on the OTHER stretcher (the one NOT removed from the elevator).

~shrug~

Edited by David Von Pein
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So...in other words...when all was said and done, Tomlinson couldn't decide which was right.

Edited by Mark Knight
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But the key was then, and remains, that Tomlinson's and Wright's description of the stretcher--no matter where they thought it came from--identifies it as the stretcher of Ronnie Fuller, and not Connally.

BTW, DVP, I recently re-read Bugliosi's handling of this issue, and it's abysmal. You should add it to your list of his mistakes, if you haven't already. He dismisses Thompson's suggestion it was Ronnie Fuller's stretcher by claiming he offered no explanation for it, which was totally untrue, and then follows this up by claiming very few CTs accept Thompson's conclusion it was Ronnie Fuller's stretcher, which was equally untrue. Thompson spends several pages proposing that the bullet was found in the hospital and then put on the nearest stretcher by someone who'd momentarily thought of keeping it as a souvenir, but then changed their mind, and didn't want to explain themselves. I think it was put on the stretcher by Sam Kinney, who didn't want to admit he'd found it while cleaning up the crime scene (the limo).

In any event, there are (relatively) innocent explanations for a bullet being found on the stretcher, that have little to do with conspiracy, and Bugliosi (and Specter, for that matter) really should have explored these explanations before pushing what is probably nonsense: that the bullet was found on Connally's stretcher.

Edited by Pat Speer
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Tomlinson's and Wright's description of the stretcher--no matter where they thought it came from--identifies it as the stretcher of Ronnie Fuller, and not Connally.

When did Tomlinson ever say he took FULLER'S stretcher off the elevator?

Edited by David Von Pein
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So...in other words...when all was said and done, Tomlinson couldn't decide which was right.

Correct, Mark.

Which is why Tomlinson's first testimony (his WC session) is certainly the best one to use. And in that testimony, he says over and over again "I'M NOT SURE" when asked which stretcher he took off the elevator. Tomlinson had no idea which one it was.

Edited by David Von Pein
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Tomlinson's and Wright's description of the stretcher--no matter where they thought it came from--identifies it as the stretcher of Ronnie Fuller, and not Connally.

When did Tomlinson ever say he took FULLER'S stretcher off the elevator?

He didn't. And I never said he did.

On 11-22-63, SS agent Richard Johnsen reported that he'd been told within a few moments of the bullet's being discovered that it had been found on a stretcher bearing rubber gloves, a stethoscope, and other doctors paraphernalia. When Specter went to Dallas and spoke to the nurses and orderlies he realized that this was not Connally's stretcher. This is almost certainly why he really went to town on Tomlinson, and tried to confuse him. Thompson, of course, later talked to some people and established that the stretcher holding the bullet was most likely the stretcher of Ronnie Fuller.

As stated, this is something Specter could have uncovered himself, and brought before the commission with an innocent explanation. That he did not only goes to support that the WC was not an honest investigation, but a whitewash built around the fear there was more to it than Oswald.

Edited by Pat Speer
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As stated, this is something Specter could have uncovered himself, and brought before the commission with an innocent explanation. That he did not only goes to support that the WC was not an honest investigation, but a whitewash built around the fear there was more to it than Oswald.

Well, since Specter and everybody else connected with the investigation knew that the bullet that was found by Darrell Tomlinson was a bullet that came out of Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle, it was pretty clear to Specter & Company that the bullet HAD to have come from Connally's stretcher.

Should Specter have played the same "Bullet Was Planted" game that CTers have been playing for 51 years? Should Specter have seriously considered the notion that CE399 had been planted, even though he knew the bullet was found by Tomlinson while Connally was still in surgery with potential bullets still inside his body that no plotters could have possibly had any knowledge of?

Such silly games are best played on the Internet. They shouldn't be played by responsible investigators.

Edited by David Von Pein
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As stated, this is something Specter could have uncovered himself, and brought before the commission with an innocent explanation. That he did not only goes to support that the WC was not an honest investigation, but a whitewash built around the fear there was more to it than Oswald.

Well, since Specter and everybody else connected with the investigation knew that the bullet that was found by Darrell Tomlinson was a bullet that came out of Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle, it was pretty clear to Specter & Company that the bullet HAD to have come from Connally's stretcher.

Should Specter have played the same "Bullet Was Planted" game that CTers have been playing for 51 years? Should Specter have seriously considered the notion that CE399 had been planted, even though he knew the bullet was found by Tomlinson while Connally was still in surgery with potential bullets still inside his body that no plotters could have possibly had any knowledge of?

Such silly games are best played on the Internet. They shouldn't be played by responsible investigators.

Nice dodge, David, but totally ineffective.

It's called a False Dilemma and is one of those basic errors in logic LNs like Reitzes and McAdams like to pretend is SOP for CTs, and not themselves or their heroes on the WC.

It was never a matter of "Kennedy's stretcher or Connally's stretcher--it's gotta be one or the other." It was always a matter of "this bullet was found on a stretcher--which stretcher and how did it get there?" Specter undoubtedly knew this and chose to play stupid to avoid having to figure out what really happened. Bugliosi decided to follow in his footsteps, and did the same, saying it must be one or the other, and since we know it wasn't Kennedy's stretcher well then, by garn, gee willie, it's just GOTTA be Connally's stretcher.

Please unchain yourself from Bugliosi's nonsense. You can do better.

P.S. Can I assume from your pouncing on this thread that you looked for the SS report on Tomlinson and were, much as myself, unable to find one?

Edited by Pat Speer
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Watch Specter try to lay a trap for Tomlinson, and watch it backfire in his face!

Specter: Now, before I started to ask you question under oath, which have been taken down here, I told you, did I not, that the Secret Service man wrote a report where he said that the bullet was found on the stretcher which you took off of the elevator - I called that to your attention, didn't I?

Tomlinson: Yes; you told me that.

Specter: Now, after I tell you that, does that have any effect on refreshing your recollection of what you told the Secret Service man?

Tomlinson: No; it really doesn't - it really doesn't.

Specter: So, would it be a fair summary to say that when I first started to talk to you about it, your first view was that the stretcher you took off of the elevator was stretcher A, and then I told you that the Secret Service man said it was - that you had said the stretcher you took off of the elevator was the one that you found the bullet off, and when we talked about the whole matter and talked over the entire situation, you really can't be completely sure about which stretcher you took off of the elevator, because you didn't push the stretcher that you took off of the elevator right against the wall at first?

Tomlinson: That's right.

Specter: And, there was a lot of confusion that day, which is what you told me before?

Tomlinson: Absolutely. And now, honestly, I don't remember telling him definitely - I know we talked about it, and I told him that it could have been. Now, he might have drawed [sic] his own conclusion on that.

Specter: You told the Secret Service agent that you didn't know where--

Tomlinson: (interrupting). He asked me if it could have been brought down from the second floor.

Specter: You got the stretcher from where the bullet came from, whether it was brought down from the second floor?

OBJECTION! "from where the bullet came from"? It was
never established
that there
ever
was a bullet on the
second
floor. It doesn't appear in the hospital at all until Tomlinson's discovery of it on Stretcher B.

Tomlinson: It could have been - I'm not sure whether it was A I took off.

Specter: But did you tell the Secret Service man which one you thought it was you took off of the elevator?

Tomlinson: I'm not clear on that - whether I absolutely made a positive statement to that effect.

Specter: You told him that it could have been B you took off of the elevator?

Tomlinson: That's right.

Specter: But, you don't remember whether you told him it was A you took off of the elevator?

Tomlinson: I think it was A - I'm not really sure.

Specter: Which did you tell the Secret Service agent - that you thought it was A that you took off of the elevator?

Tomlinson: Really, I couldn't be real truthful in saying I told him this or that.

Specter: You just don't remember for sure whether you told him you thought it was A or not?

Tomlinson: No, sir; I really don't remember. I'm not accustomed to being questioned by the Secret Service and the FBI and by you and they are writing down everything, I mean.

And remember - the FBI was quite clear in telling witnesses that lying to a Federal officer was a Federal offense - that statement alone kept good honest people from saying much for fear of mistakenly contradicting themselves and waking up in jail. I believe this is what holds Tomlinson back from being more definite. Not remembering what he told them, he is hesitant to make any blanket, 100% statements. But notice he never says "I think it was B that came off the elevator" - whenever he offers an opinion, it has consistently been A. He allows the possibility of B but
thinks
it was A.

Specter: That's all right. I understand exactly what you are saying and I appreciate it and I really just want to get your best recollection. We understand it isn't easy to remember all that went on, on a day like November 22d, and that a man's recollection is not perfect like every other part of a a man, but I want you to tell me just what you remember, and that's the best you can do today, and I appreciate that, and so does the President's Commission, and that's all we can ask a man.

Tomlinson: Yes, I'm going to tell you all I can, and I'm not going to tell you something I can't lay down and sleep at night with either.

Sounds like Tomlinson sees what's going on and refuses to tell them what they want to hear and insists on telling only the truth as he knows it. Would there were more people like that in the world!

Specter: Do you know where the stretcher came form that you found on the elevator.

Tomlinson: No, sir; I do not. It could have come from two, it could have come from three, it could have come from some other place.

Specter: You didn't see anybody put it there?

Tomlinson: No, sire - it was on the elevator when I got there. There wasn't anyone on the elevator when I got there. There wasn't anyone on the elevator at the time when I keyed it off.

Specter: And when you say "keyed it off," you mean?

Tomlinson: Put it in manual operation.

Specter: Mr. Tomlinson, does it make any difference to you whether you sign this deposition at the end or not?

Tomlinson: No.

Specter: We very much appreciate your coming, Mr. Tomlinson. Thank you very much. Those are all the questions I have.

Tomlinson: All right. Thank you.

Specter: Off the record.

(Discussion between counsel and the witness Tomlinson regarding a proposed exhibit.)

On the record. Now that the deposition of Mr. Tomlinson has been concluded, I am having the paper marked as Tomlinson Exhibit No. 2. (Instrument marked by the reporter as Tomlinson Exhibit No.2, for identification.) May the record show that Mr. Tomlinson is present, and will you identify this paper marked as Tomlinson Exhibit No. 2 as the one which contains the diagram of the emergency room and the letters A and B of the stretchers we have been discussing?

Tomlinson: That's just the elevator lobby in emergency.

Specter: And this is the diagram which you drew for us?

Tomlinson: Yes

Specter: That's all, and thank you very much.

And just think, Latimer has devoted much of his life showing how this bullet could have caused seven wounds with nary a scratch, when in fact there is nothing to link this bullet to Connally (or Kennedy for that matter) at.

The fact that the bullet can be linked to Oswald's gun makes it look all the more like a plant.

And Seth Kantor saw Jack Ruby in Parkland Hospital that day.

Source:Read full article here.

http://www.realhistoryarchives.com/collections/assassinations/jfk/ce399.htm

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Summary

In a memo to the Warren Commission [C. E. #2011] concerning its investigation of the chain of possession of C.E. #399, the FBI reported that two Parkland Hospital eyewitnesses, Darrell Tomlinson and O. P. Wright, said C.E. #399 resembled the bullet they discovered on the day JFK died. But the FBI agent who is supposed to have interviewed both men and the Bureau’s own suppressed records contradict the FBI’s public memo. Agent Odum denied his role, and the FBI’s earliest, suppressed files say only that neither Tomlinson nor Wright was able to identify the bullet in question. This suppressed file implies the hospital witnesses saw no resemblance, which is precisely what Wright told one of the authors in 1967.

What we are left with is the FBI having reported a solid chain of possession for #399 to the Warren Commission. But the links in the FBI’s chain appear to be anything but solid. Bardwell Odum, one of the key links, says he was never in the chain at all and the FBI’s own, suppressed records tend to back him up. Inexplicably, the chain also lacks other important links: FBI 302s, reports from the agents in the field who, there is ample reason to suppose, did actually trace #399 in Dallas and in Washington. Suppressed FBI records and recent investigations thus suggest that not only is the FBI’s file incomplete, but also that one of the authors may have been right when he reported in 1967 that the bullet found in Dallas did not look like a bullet that could have come from Oswald’s rifle.

Source:

http://www.history-matters.com/essays/frameup/EvenMoreMagical/EvenMoreMagical.htm

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Malcolm, I re-read both Lisa Pease's article (your first post) and Tink Thompson's and Gary Aguilar's article (your second post), yesterday while looking for some footnote or anything that would show me where to find the 1963 FBI and Secret Service interviews of Tomlinson discussed in his testimony. But found nothing. I searched Mary Ferrell, but found nothing.

While I suspect that no such memos exist, and that Specter was (perhaps accidentally) trying to coerce false testimony from Tomlinson by citing a report that existed only in his mind, I'm gonna spend a few more hours looking for them today just to be sure.

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Malcolm, I re-read both Lisa Pease's article (your first post) and Tink Thompson's and Gary Aguilar's article (your second post), yesterday while looking for some footnote or anything that would show me where to find the 1963 FBI and Secret Service interviews of Tomlinson discussed in his testimony. But found nothing. I searched Mary Ferrell, but found nothing.

While I suspect that no such memos exist, and that Specter was (perhaps accidentally) trying to coerce false testimony from Tomlinson by citing a report that existed only in his mind, I'm gonna spend a few more hours looking for them today just to be sure.

I am not to bad at searching for stuff myself Pat.I have tried different search engines.Phrased the question in different ways and have come up with no report.Like you,I expect it does not exist.

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I re-read Ray Marcus' 1966 monograph The Bastard Bullet, and realized that he had long ago looked for the SS report mentioned in Tomlinson's testimony, and had similarly come up with bupkus.

It appears that such a document once existed and was either lost or was made to disappear.

A March 6, 1964 memo from Rankin to the Commission found on Howard Willens' website provides a list of those Specter plans on deposing while in Dallas. Tomlinson is listed, but not O.P. Wright, whose name was listed in association with the bullet in the initial reports on the bullet. That means that by early March Specter knew Tomlinson had found the bullet. It only makes sense, then, that he'd read about this in a report of some kind. And yet no such report exists...at least that I can find...

I'll keep looking.

Edited by Pat Speer
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