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Crack in the windshield


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bump bagel for the dough-nut

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No. This analysis is bogus.

Again this analysis is refuted by photographic evidence. There is no bagel, dough-nut, loop or any other hole. Period.

As is seen here:

CE350Wcrack.gif

The White Garage photos showing the damaged windshield do not match Altgens 7 IMO.

Bill Miller

If the crack as seen above is viewed from behind the windshield (as seen in A-7) then the crack images seem to agree.

CE350WcrackFlip.gif

Edited by Miles Scull
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If the crack as seen above is viewed from behind the windshield (as seen in A-7) then the crack images seems to agree.

CE350WcrackFlip.gif

I disagree totally ... they do not match at all. The frosted area seen in Altgens 7 is much larger and the WH Garage pic shows clear glass outside of the immediate impact site. I also want to say that when the WH Garage photo is reversed ... the crack seen in Altgens 7 is on the opposite side of the WH Garage photo.

Bill

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Questions for 1) Miles, and 2) Bill (or anyone else for that matter): in your humble opinion (lol), is it a possibility that a (through-and-through) bullet hole was created in the windshield either 1) sometime after Z-255, or 2) sometime after Z-198?, and if so, do you think it could have been created by the same bullet that laid open the right side of JFK's skull from front to back at Z-313 and created a baseball-sized exit wound in the occipital-parietal (rear) part of JFK's head?

Thanks,

--Thomas

Well, there is no damage seen on the glass in Altgens 6 which correlates with Z255/256. One might think that Greer would have reacted when a bullet hit the windshield in front of him and there is no sign of Greer reacting to any concerns of being shot until after the President was fatally wounded. It was at that time that Kellerman said that a flurry of shots had come into the car. With the latter being in evidence IMO, then the President was fatally wounded before the windshield was broken.

Bill

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There's an interesting discussion of the windshield here, deatiling extensive tests by Al Carrier on Laminated Windshields:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...mp;hl=laminated

One reason the frosting may appear larger on the A7 is because the cracks are internally reflective and the sun may be reflected on their surfaces.

Here's* an attempt at locating the crack on the screen on the powers photo. There was no crack at that point but this is just an attempt to orient the HSCA photo correctly and then trace the cracks onto the screen to get an idea of its relation to Kennedy. To do this the best HSCA photo was used and stretched to fill the area of the screen as seen in the powers photo. The red lines are the cracks from the bullet/fragment strike and the yellow from the pushing out the screen by the people changing the screen.

I know from personal experience that it's possible to remove a screen without damaging it, The likely hood of damage increases if there is a weakness somewhere. The dent could possibly cause a localised farcture that the removal of the screen spread into the yellow part of the pattern when photographed and extend the red pattern.

*(image)

Edited by John Dolva
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There's an interesting discussion of the windshield here, deatiling extensive tests by Al Carrier on Laminated Windshields:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...mp;hl=laminated

One reason the frosting may appear larger on the A7 is because the cracks are internally reflective and the sun may be reflected on their surfaces.

Here's* an attempt at locating the crack on the screen on the powers photo. There was no crack at that point but this is just an attempt to orient the HSCA photo correctly and then trace the cracks onto the screen to get an idea of its relation to Kennedy. To do this the best HSCA photo was used and stretched to fill the area of the screen as seen in the powers photo. The red lines are the cracks from the bullet/fragment strike and the yellow from the pushing out the screen by the people changing the screen.

I know from personal experience that it's possible to remove a screen without damaging it, The likely hood of damage increases if there is a weakness somewhere. The dent could possibly cause a localised farcture that the removal of the screen spread into the yellow part of the pattern when photographed and extend the red pattern.

*(image)

One reason the frosting may appear larger on the A7 is because the cracks are internally reflective and the sun may be reflected on their surfaces.

Just so, I was about to make the same observation by adding this (Robin's Parkland):

Parkland.jpg

Here there is a frosting effect even at close range. Given greater distance & motion to the windshield & camera, the crack image smudges with blurring intersecting refractions. Still, the smudged (or frosted) image bears the pattern of this (which again resembles Robin's Parkland):

CE350WcrackFlip.gif

Alteration to the crack could have occurred, especially at the feet of Arlington Glass. What point is being made by referring to the quote "frosting?" Is there some significant implication? What?

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There's an interesting discussion of the windshield here, deatiling extensive tests by Al Carrier on Laminated Windshields:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...mp;hl=laminated

One reason the frosting may appear larger on the A7 is because the cracks are internally reflective and the sun may be reflected on their surfaces.

Here's* an attempt at locating the crack on the screen on the powers photo. There was no crack at that point but this is just an attempt to orient the HSCA photo correctly and then trace the cracks onto the screen to get an idea of its relation to Kennedy. To do this the best HSCA photo was used and stretched to fill the area of the screen as seen in the powers photo. The red lines are the cracks from the bullet/fragment strike and the yellow from the pushing out the screen by the people changing the screen.

I know from personal experience that it's possible to remove a screen without damaging it, The likely hood of damage increases if there is a weakness somewhere. The dent could possibly cause a localised farcture that the removal of the screen spread into the yellow part of the pattern when photographed and extend the red pattern.

Rowley Secret Service Document.

Two bullet fragments found, one in between Greer and Kellerman , and the other one on the RIGHT hand side of the car in front of kellermans side of the seat.

Edited by Robin Unger
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In the statement above Rowley says that a fragment was found in between Greer and Kellermans front SEATS.

quote: " In the area between left and right front seats "

Am i missing something , wasnt the front seat a one piece seat. ?

Edited by Robin Unger
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""In addition, of particular note was the small hole just to the left of center in the windshield from which what appeared to be bullet fragments were removed. The team of agents also noted that the chrome molding strip above the windshield, inside the car, just right of center, was dented. The FBI Agents stated that this dent was made by the bullet fragment which was found imbedded in the front cushion.""

Record Number 180-10099-10390 Agency File Number 002528

Originator-WC

From: Taylor, Charles E.

To:

Date: 11/27/63

Pages: 4

Subjects: Kennedy, John, Autopsy

Evidence, Medical

Wound Ballistics

USSS

Date of release: 12/16/93

Contents: Secret Service Report dated 11/27/63 by Agents Charles E. Taylor, Jr. and Harry W. Geiglein on investigation of clues found in the Presidential limousine.

Document follows in full.

ORIGIN: White House Detail OFFICE: Washington, D.C.

FILE NO.: CO-2-34,030

TYPE OF CASE: Protective Research STATUS: Closed

INVESTIGATION MADE AT: Washington, D.C.

PERIOD COVERED: November 22-23, 1963

INVESTIGATION MADE BY: SAIC Harry W. Geiglein

SA Charles E. Taylor, Jr.

TITLE OR CAPTION: Assassination of President John F. Kennedy

SYNOPSIS

This report relates to the measures employed to effect security of the President's car, 100-X, and the follow-up car, 679-X, on return from Dallas, Texas, following the assassination of President Kennedy.

DETAILS OF INVESTIGATION

This investigation was initiated on November 22, 1963, following receipt of instructions from ASAIC Floyd M. Boring, White House Detail, that steps be taken to effect security of the President's car (100-X) and the follow-up car (679-X) on their return from Dallas, Texas. President John F. Kennedy occupied the rear seat of SS-100-X when he was assassinated, and SS-679-X was directly behind the Presidential limousine at the time of the assassination. There two vehicles were driven to Love Field, Dallas, Texas, for immediate transportation to Andrews Air Force Base, Washington, D.C.

Following the arrival of President Lyndon B. Johnson and the remains of President Kennedy at Andrews Air Force Base, the reporting Special Agents conferred with Captain Milton B. Hartenblower, Duty Operations Officer, and Lt. Colonel Robert Best, Provost Marshal, Andrews Air Force Base, to arrange for landing instruction of the Air Force cargo plane transporting the subject vehicles and to escort these vehicles from Andrews Air Force Base. Also, arrangements were made with the U.S. Park Police for motorcycle escort of these automobiles to the White House Garage.

DISTRIBUTION: Chief Washington

COPIES: Orig. & 2 cc 2 cc

REPORT MADE BY: /s/ Charles E. Taylor, Jr. DATE: 11/27/63

Charles E. Taylor, Jr.

APPROVED: /s/ Harry W. Geiglein DATE: 11/27/63

Harry W. Geiglein

SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: Harry W. Geiglein

CO-2-34,030

Page 2

At 8:00 P.M. on November 22, 1963, SS-100-X and SS-679-X arrived at Andrews Air Force Base on Air Force Cargo Plane No. 612373 (C-130-E), which plane was assigned to the 78th Air Transport Squadron from Charleston Air Force Base and piloted by Captain Thomason. The plane was taxied to a point just off of Runway 1028, approximately 100 yards from the Control Tower at Andrews AFB, and a security cordon was placed around the aircraft while these vehicles were being unloaded.

On the plane accompanying these vehicles were Special Agents Kinney and Hickey.

The Presidential vehicles were driven under escort to the White House Garage at 22nd and M Streets, N.W., Washington, D.C., arriving at approximately 9:00 P.M. SS-100-X was driven by SA Kinney, accompanied by SA Taylor, and SS-679-x was driven by SA Hickey, accompanied by Special Agents Keiser and Brett.

On arrival, SS-100-X was backed into the designated parking bin and SS-679-X was parked a few feet away. A plastic cover was placed over SS-100-X and it was secured. The follow-up car, SS-679-X, was locked and secured. Special Agents Keiser, Brett, and the reporting Special Agent effected security, assisted by White House Policemen Snyder and Rubenstal.

At 10:10 P.M., Deputy Chief Paterni, ASAIC Boring, and representatives from Dr. Burkley's office at the White House, William Martinell and Thomas Mills, inspected SS-100-X.

At 12:01 A.M., November 23, 1963, the security detail was relieved by Special Agents Paraschos and Kennedy and White House Policeman J. W. Edwards.

At 1:00 A.M., as per arrangements by Deputy Chief Paterni, a team of FBI Agents examined the Presidential limousine. This team was comprised of Orrin H. Bartlett, Charles L. Killian, Cortlandt Cunningham, Robert A. Frazier, and Walter E. Thomas .

Mr. Orin Bartlett drove the Presidential vehicle out of the bin. The team of FBI Agents, assisted by the Secret Service Agents on duty, removed the leatherette convertible top and the plexi-glass bubbletop; also the molding strips that secure the floor matting, and the rear seat. What appeared to be bullet fragments were removed from the windshield and the floor rug in the rear of the car.

CO-2-34,030

Page 3

The two blankets on the left and right rear doors were removed, inspected, and returned to the vehicle. The trunk of the vehicle was opened and the contents examined, and nothing was removed. A meticulous examination was made of the back seat to the car and the floor rug, and no evidence was found. In addition, of particular note was the small hole just to the left of center in the windshield from which what appeared to be bullet fragments were removed. The team of agents also noted that the chrome molding strip above the windshield, inside the car, just right of center, was dented. The FBI Agents stated that this dent was made by the bullet fragment which was found imbedded in the front cushion.

During the course of this examination, a number of color photos were taken by this FBI <"FBI" inserted in longhand with an arrow> search team. They concluded their examination at 4:30 A.M. and the President's car was reassembled and put back in the storage bin.

At 8:00 A.M. on November 23, the security detail was relieved by Special Agents Hancock and Davis and White House Policeman J. C. Rowe. SA Gonzalez relieved SA Hancock at Noon and at 4:00 P.M., Messrs, Fox and Norton, Protective Research Section, photographed the Presidential limousine. At 4:30 P.M., SA Gonzalez contacted SAIC Bouck and Deputy Chief Paterni and, at their request, the flowers, torn pieces of paper, and other miscellaneous debris were removed from the floor of the car (SS-100-X) and taken to the Washington Field Office. At that time, the special detail securing the Presidential limousine and the follow-up car was discontinued.

DISPOSITION

This case is closed with the submission of this report.

CET:mkd

Below FBI CE 351 ......and FBI 307 Photographs

& FBI Document released..

Bernice..

Edited by Bernice Moore
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""In addition, of particular note was the small hole just to the left of center in the windshield from which what appeared to be bullet fragments were removed. The team of agents also noted that the chrome molding strip above the windshield, inside the car, just right of center, was dented. The FBI Agents stated that this dent was made by the bullet fragment which was found imbedded in the front cushion.""

B..........

Hi B, you've been away? :(

You've seen this, of course?

http://home.comcast.net/~the-puzzle-palace/windshield.htm

Now, I'd like to ask, with respect, in A-7: Where's the hole?

Altgens7blowup2.jpg

M

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Hi Miles :

Check the photos I just posted, I had trouble attaching them..

Keep in mind please, just how much was fabricated within all..

the evidence, imo.. :( .Especially have a look at CE 351..

No, not away, just on the search, and reading....we women

you know come and go at our own whim. :D

B

Edited by Bernice Moore
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Robin,

I refurbished it, somewhat.

Can you post the original if it's different than what you first posted?

thanks

chris

High Chris.

This image is how i received it , Bill Miller was the original poster, he emailed the original copies of the image to people on the Lancer forum who requested it.

Edited by Robin Unger
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