The Ultimate USAEC secrets per the JFK hit.

[Larry Hancock]

Good deal Paul, one of the areas to watch is specifically the differences in operational skills between many of the familiar names that we toss about all the time. Its true that Hunt, Phillips, Morales and Robertson were all in the Directorate of Plans, the clandestine operations service. But the P-P group ranged from political action types (like Hunt) through the psych warfare and propaganda specialist like Phillips to the people like Phillips and Morales who wore multiple hats like counter intelligence and on to the real paramilitary operations guys, trainers and managers like Morales and pure field action officers like Robertson who worked though surrogates and bonded closely with them.

We really do gloss over matters if we broadly credit these folks with the same skills ..and indeed the same sorts of contacts and even reputations.... Larry

[Paul Trejo]

As I'm reading Chapter 11 of SHADOW WARFARE (2014) by Larry Hancock and Stuart Wexler, I'll add one remark here to tie this back to the original thread, in which Jim Phelps raised the historical role of the secret society of Masons.

Reading all these details in SHADOW WARFARE about the birth of the CIA, I'm impressed with their specific methods of secrecy, and how closely these resemble the methods of secrecy that the Masons used (as read about in historical works on Masons).

For just one brief example, a "naming convention" that is arbitrarily invented and agreed upon by the group, is an excellent secret-keeping and breach-alerting device.

For example, take the CIA projects, AM/WORLD or AM/TRUNK or PB/SUCCESS or PB/FORTUNE. The first two characters are private acronyms, followed by a common word. That's a "naming convention." Now, if anybody in the entire world repeated the secret phrase, "AM/WORLD," then it was guaranteed that a breach had occurred. Nobody could ever guess this arbitrary convention.

This was actually a medieval secret-keeping device, and the Masons used it -- and now we see the CIA using it.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited May 8, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Larry,

I completed reading your Chapter 11 of SHADOW WARFARE, Against the Castro Regime. It is rich in detail and facts about the transition of the Cuba problem from Ike to JFK and through the Bay of Pigs disaster.

You started with Fidel Castro's turn to nationalize US businesses in Cuba in 1959, and the US State Department recommendation to pursue covert regime-change in Cuba, Eisenhower's approval, and the assembly of a new CIA Cuba project, headed by several folks from the successful Guatemala project.

Jacob Esterline drafted a project in January, 1960, and by March 1960 Ike signed off, and station JM/WAVE in Miami was launched and continued to mushroom for many years.

Richard Bissell, Tracy Barnes and J.C. King took the lead. David Morales was to be the trainer. Ike’s initial plan was for a small covert operation -- it would entice a group of Cubans off the island, train them, and put them back in the Trinidad region, in an operation named ‘Pluto’ (near existing Anti-Castro groups). Their guerrilla actions should have ignited a major anti-Castro revolt. The original CIA Cuba Task Force (WH/4) was planned for only forty CIA Agents; 18 in Washington, 22 in Cuba.

In a weird twist of fate, CIA Agent in charge, Richard Bissell, developed bigger ideas -- a full-scale, conventional military invasion with a big propaganda-psych division headed by David Phillips. Bissell envisioned about 600 CIA employees to help E. Howard Hunt manage a Cuban Exile organization in Florida; a secret spy network inside Cuba; and manage a huge paramilitary force to go into Cuba to organize, train, and lead resistance groups. Also, a new plan was added to assassinate Fidel (that part of the plan alone took on a life of its own).

Bissell demanded an invasion force of at least 1,500 men. When Colonel Jack Hawkins, detailed from the Marines to head the paramilitary preparation of the Bay of Pigs, was directed to update his plans, he warned in January 1961, of serious drawbacks. Ike's original plan had absolutely mandated “avoiding any appearance of US intervention.:" How could this have any other appearance?

Colonel Hawkins emphasized in another memo that if the Bay of Pigs invasion would be successful, that a given number of aircraft running a given number of missions was mandatory. Without this, he warned, the Bay of Pigs project should be canceled. But this memo never got past Bissell -- it never made it to JFK's desk or to the NSC.

In your research, Larry, Hawkins and Esterline admitted that Richard Bissell assured them that their concerns were being heard by JFK, although Bissell banned the two from his secret meetings with JFK. Actually -- Bissell assured JFK that the invasion would require minimal air power (as we know today from FOIA documents released).

Not only did Bissell keep his top advisors in the dark, he also kept Cuban Exile leaders, like Manuel Artime and Rafael Quintero, in the dark. Hawkins and Esterline made a final, last-minute effort to object; they told Bissell that even if they seized the Bay of Pigs, there was no plan to extend beyond the beachhead. The plan was doomed to fail, they insisted for three hours to Bissell personally at his home. Bissell wouldn't listen.

Both officers threatened to resign if the Bay of Pigs invasion wasn't canceled. Bissell's response was to solemnly pledge JFK’s authorization for more aircraft and more strikes. Actually, Bissell did the opposite, and promised JFK that he would cut the attacking air force in half.

Of course the Bay of Pigs was a disaster. But it took decades for even these highly placed CIA employees to learn all the facts. They had been convinced, like many people, even inside the CIA, that JFK was given all the facts and made all the decisions of the Bay of Pigs.

For example, the 1998 book by Grayston Lynch, Decision for Disaster: Betrayal at the Bay of Pigs, blames JFK entirely. But the view that you promote, Larry, from more recent final evaluations by Colonel Hawkins and Jake Esterline, fills in information that Lynch and many CIA Agents did not know for most of the 20th century.

After the Bay of Pigs, JFK was completely disappointed in the abilities of the CIA and took matters into his own hands. He assigned RFK to redo the entire job with a much smaller group, called, The Special Group. The emphasis was on deniability. Everything had to appear that the Cubans were acting without US help. RFK all but by-passed the JM/WAVE station. This caused yet more friction between the CIA and the Kennedy Administration.

RFK asked General Lansdale for his expert leadership. Lansdale made plans for a totally new Cuban government by October, 1962. Instead, the opposite happened -- the Cuban Missile Crisis.

I'm now going to begin reading your Chapter 12, Larry, namely, Autonomous and Deniable. I'm looking forward to it.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited May 11, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Larry Hancock]

Paul, I think a point in the early time frame of the Cuba project that is important to mention is that the Castro assassination was first proposed by J.C. King and endorsed - albeit reworded - by Dulles who passed it on up the chain of command. Given that Ike approved the Cuba project and that Ike had previously told Dulles to eliminate Luemumba, I can't help but think that it was assumed he intended a similar

option for Castro. With all the debate over JFK approving an assassination, everyone seems to forget the actual proposal and endorsement occurred before JFK took office.

[Paul Trejo]

Paul, I think a point in the early time frame of the Cuba project that is important to mention is that the Castro assassination was first proposed by J.C. King and endorsed - albeit reworded - by Dulles who passed it on up the chain of command. Given that Ike approved the Cuba project and that Ike had previously told Dulles to eliminate Luemumba, I can't help but think that it was assumed he intended a similar option for Castro.

With all the debate over JFK approving an assassination, everyone seems to forget the actual proposal and endorsement occurred before JFK took office.

It's a good point, Larry. The Monroe Doctrine evidently remains alive and well today, as it did for the entire 20th century.

The US justification seems to be that nationalization of privately held resources is a menace to Free Enterprise and to the institution of Private Property upon which Western Civilization is founded.

It is surely rational to enact taxation in order to pay for a necessary Military and Police system designed to protect Private Property -- and actually Private Property cannot exist apart from the Legal Institutions that are funded by it.

Yet one can go too far in taxation, namely, nationalization which amounts to full confiscation of Property. That undermines all Western Law -- whether Family Law, Civil Law or Criminal Law -- and so our perception has been that nationalization must be prevented at all costs before it spreads.

Fidel Castro didn't know that he made a major blunder by nationalizing Cuban utilities -- he practically froze the progress of Cuba at the level of 1963-1989. With the fall of the USSR and the Eastern bloc, Cuba lost its international market -- and still suffers for that today.

The trouble with the Monroe Doctrine is that it remains myopic -- once Private Property is guaranteed, the consideration of the Freedom of the People is ignored outside US borders. The Batista regime in Cuba is a perfect case in point -- Batista's regime was tyrannical and brutal -- no better than the USSR.

Countless well-meaning Americans supported Fidel Castro in the early days because of the bad reputation of Batista -- and befriending a tyrant like Batista gave the USA a bad name. So we saw the paradox of conservative Americans like Gerry Patrick Hemming, David Ferrie, Frank Sturgis and Harry Dean (to name a tiny few who are also relevant to the murder of JFK) who did everything they could to support Fidel Castro's rise to power.

Only when Castro began to nationalize Cuba's utilities industries did these conservative Americans realize too late what they had done -- and afterwards they tended to congregate in Florida (near JM/WAVE) to reverse their efforts.

So we shouldn't be surprised to learn that Ike also supported the idea of assassinating Fidel Castro. Communism in the Western Hemisphere was especially serious during the Cold War, which arguably reached its peak after Ike.

JFK inherited a can of worms when he inherited the Cuba problem. It's a pity that the CIA staff in Florida failed to muster more loyalty and trust in their Commander in Chief.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited May 11, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Larry,

I finished reading your Chapter 12 of "SHADOW WARFARE," namely, Autonomous and Deniable. Again, your writing is rich in historical detail and facts gleaned from recent FOIA documents. This time you focused on the Cuban problem as handled (or mishandled) by JFK and RFK.

After Bay of Pigs disaster, for which the CIA was rightly blamed, JFK gave RFK the problem in what was called The Special Group. RFK returned to Ike's idea of a using local opposition parties in a covert war, fully deniable, with the appearance of a local rebellion and “avoiding any appearance of US intervention.”

RFK chose to focus an "autonomous group strategy" of Cuban Exiles who would do everything themselves -- with secret and deniable US finance, military hardware and logistics support.

RFK would select Exile leaders and groups would be supported only if they moved operations offshore and publicly broke any and all connection to the US. The missions would primarily be naval (probably because a large air force would be a clear sign that the US was involved).

RFK selected one group in particular -- that of Manuel Artime, a Bay of Pigs survivor. The group was MRR (Movement to Recover the Revolution). His co-leader was Rafael Quinteros. The code-name of the program was AM/WORLD.

Far fewer CIA officers were involved (e.g. Richard Helms and Maxwell Taylor) who acted only as advisors and coordinators (rather than commanders as in JM/WAVE). Henry Hecksher was liaison for the “autonomous group” in Washington DC and gave media advice to Artime. Carl Jenkins, paramilitary specialist, helped arrange advanced combat training -- strictly offshore.

As a corrollary to AM/WORLD, all other efforts to take back Cuba were dropped. CIA officer Desmond FitzGerald was appointed to ochestrate the Coast Guard, Air Force, Navy, Immigration, police and FBI to block all Cuban Exile group missions from being launched from the USA. Only offshore efforts were allowed -- and only one offshore group (MRR) was covertly financed.

This was supremely confusing to all other Cuban Exiles and even to CIA personnel still working out of JM/WAVE in Miami. Mistakes were made.

Still, Artime, with all this top-secret CIA help, made lots of progress coordinating arms purchases and cooperative deals with Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Honduras, and Venezuela. To obtain weapons, the USA would 'grant' US weapons to these other Latin American nations, and also 'grant' covert cash (in the millions) to MRR through Swiss Bank accounts. Then Artime and his captains would 'purchase' the weapons, and it would appear like the USA was never in the loop. Other deniable weapons purchases were made through CIA fronts like 'InterArmCo.'

Unfortunately, Artime was also obliged to publicly announce, again and again, that the USA had nothing to do with any Cuban groups anymore -- and certainly not his own group. Artime was always open to private funding, he claimed. The end result (perhaps unexpected by RFK and JFK) was that all other Cuban Exile groups (the majority) and their former CIA supporters from JM/WAVE (and Bay of Pigs) came to believe the cover story!

Perhaps most Cuban Exiles and the JM/WAVE personnel believed that JFK had totally abandoned the Cuban Crisis, and was now willing to leave Fidel Castro alone -- though nothing was further from the truth.

At this time, too, JM/WAVE could make no move without JFK's signature, which he rarely gave them. They were very frustrated with the scenario. Some of these frustrated people included David Atlee Phillips, E. Howard Hunt, David Morales and William Harvey.

(I might add to this list of frusrated folks many JM/WAVE thug-like street assets such as Frank Sturgis, Gerry Patrick Hemming, Loran Hall, Larry Howard, David Ferrie, Jack Martin, Fred Crisman and Guy Banister. I might also add JM/WAVE financial backers like Clay Shaw, Santos Traficante, Sam Giancana, Carlos Marcello, H.L. Hunt, Clint Murchison, Lester Logue and Congressman John Rousselot.)

AM/WORLD proposed a new, local Cuban coup'd'etat effort code-named AM/TRUNK, which was widely held to be unrealistic unless Fidel Castro could first be assassinated. Many AM/TRUNK assets inside Cuba, identified as AM/WHIP, were “turned” by Castro spies very early. One AM/TRUNK asset, Rolando Cubela, unsuccessfully tried to poison Fidel Castro. His code-name was AM/LASH.)

In other plans, Artime made progress. Somoza was active in supporting Artime – buying planes from England and offering military support and bases. The “autonomous group” cover worked so well it even fooled the US military at some bases. They also purchased (or leased) several Naval vessels.

Sadly for AM/WORLD, too many mistakes were made. Artime was caught at Customs with secret government documents which were Xeroxed by Customs, and was only released after hours of high-level intervention.

Fortunately for history, those Xeroxed documents were preserved and released through FOIA requests, and used by you, Larry, to document this history. Unfortunately for AM/WORLD, their cover was breached.

Worse yet, a Florida Reporter (Hal Hendrix) obtained news from "confidential sources" about Manuel Artime's project in July 1963, and exposed it to the world. AM/WORLD was all but defunct. Denials flew, but it was too late. But Hal Hendrix had up to then been a trusted, vetted Newspaper man in Miami, very close to the CIA and JM/WAVE. Who could have leaked this information to Hendrix? You hint, Larry, that it may have been disaffected JM/WAVE staff themselves.

Over two years Artime’s military operation involved 14 missions, with four being partially successful. Very poor results, yet the expense to the USA was enormous. Then, in September 1964, Artime’s team accidentally attacked a commercial Spanish freighter off the Cuban coast, and caused an international diplomatic scandal. By the end of 1964, the AM/WORLD project was washed up, and by early 1965 the US State Department pulled the plug.

The Cuba project started under Ike and ended under LBJ. As you conclude, Larry, it had been the most intense regime-change effort ever undertaken by the USA – and ultimately a flop. Cuban Exiles themselves, with a few JM/WAVE resources, would finally stop Che Guevarra, but Fidel Castro still stands to this very day. The CIA never fully recovered from this black-eye.

So, I did appreciate your history of the CIA with regard to the Cuba project, all the way past the murder of JFK, Larry. You don't discuss the JFK assassination in this book (as you explained) yet the specific history of the CIA was presented in a detailed, factual and documented manner more clearly than I've ever seen in print.

This orientation will be helpful, I believe, in formulating a Unified Field Theory of the conspiracy to murder JFK.

Many thanks,
--Paul Trejo

Edited May 19, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Larry Hancock]

I'm glad you enjoyed it Paul, I suppose about the only comment I'd add is that if you complete the rest of the book, you will see that the Artime/Amworld project was probably not the most

intense covert regime change project in the nation's history, certainly Chile, Nicaragua, and others come to mind. All in all it was probably equal to the effort in Angola. But that's a much

longer and larger story. In addition, far more money, energy and casualties were devoted to other covert projects....Tibet and Laos are examples in Indochina.

I also need to note that much of chapter 12 comes courtesy of primary research by Gary Murr and he definitely deserves the credit for opening the door on AMWORLD to an extent that

no other researcher or historian has done to date, all based on release of operational documents.. There remains a huge amount of un-mined information in those documents - Gary and Bill Simpich

are among only a handful of people doing work on that raw historical data.

[Steven Gaal]

Main dread of the British Foreign Office // AMERICAN ISOLATIONISM //
solution communist Cuba // There were many opinions about sending arms to Castro but arms were sent by the British. If the British would threaten JFK not to help ****when British Guiana might go communist when the British were asking for Polaris technology,then why then is it a stretch to think that the BAY OF PIGS OPERATION WAS sabotaged on purpose for British interests ??

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ((( Skull & Bones = British )))

Richard M. Bissell, Jr. was a very important man to the denizens of Jupiter Island.

He graduated from Yale in 1932, the year after the Harrimanites bought the island. Though not in Skull and Bones, Bissell was the younger brother of William Truesdale Bissell, a Bonesman from the class of 1925. Their father, Connecticut insurance executive Richard M. Bissell, Sr., had put the U.S. insurance industry's inside knowledge of all fire-insured industrial plants at the disposal of government planners during World War I.

The senior Bissell, a powerful Yale alumnus, was also the director of the Neuro-Psychiatric Institute of the Hartford Retreat for the Insane; there, in 1904, Yale graduate Clifford Beers underwent mind-destroying treatment which led this mental patient to found the Mental Hygiene Society, a major Yale-based Skull and Bones project. This would evolve into the CIA's cultural engineering effort of the 1950s, the drugs and brainwashing adventure known as ``MK-Ultra.''

Richard M. Bissell, Jr. studied at the London School of Economics in 1932 and 1933, and taught at Yale from 1935 to 1941. He then joined Harriman's entourage in the U.S. government. Bissell was an economist for the Combined Shipping Adjustment Board in 1942-43, while Averell Harriman was the U.S. leader of that board in London.

In 1947 and 1948, Bissell was executive secretary of the ``Harriman Commission,'' otherwise known as the President's Commission on Foreign Aid. When Harriman was the administrator of the Marshall Plan, Bissell was assistant administrator.

Harriman was director of Mutual Security (1951-53), while Bissell was consultant to the director of Mutual Security 1952.

Bissell then joined F. Trubee Davison at the Central Intelligence Agency. When Allen Dulles became CIA Director, Bissell was one of his three aides.

Why could this be of interest to our Floridians? We saw in Chapter 4, that the great anti-Castro covert initiative of 1959-61 was supervised by an awesome array of Harriman agents. We need now add to that assessment only the fact that the detailed management of the invasion of Cuba, and of the assassination planning, and the training of the squads for these jobs, was given into the hands of Richard M. Bissell, Jr.

This 1961 invasion failed. Fidel Castro survived the widely-discussed assassination plots against him. But the initiative succeeded in what was probably its core purpose: to organize a force of multi-use professional assassins. (AND CREATED LOCAL COMMUNIST THREAT TO USA FOREVER CHANGING FOREIGN POLICY AS AGGESSIVELY NON ISOLATIONALIST,GAAL)

The Florida-trained killers stayed in business under the leadership of Ted Shackley. They were all around the assassination of President Kennedy in 1963. They kept going with the Operation Phoenix mass murder of Vietnamese civilians, with Middle East drug and terrorist programs, and with George Bush's Contra wars in Central America.
Harvey Hollister Bundy (S&B 1909) was Henry L. Stimson's Assistant Secretary of State (1931-33); then he was Stimson's Special Assistant Secretary of War, alongside Assistant Secretary Robert Lovett of Skull and Bones and Brown Brothers Harriman.

Harvey's son William P. Bundy (S&B 1939) was a CIA officer from 1951 to 1961; as a 1960s defense official, he pushed the Harriman-Dulles scheme for a Vietnam war. Harvey's other son, McGeorge Bundy (S&B 1940), co-authored Stimson's memoirs in 1948. As President John Kennedy's Director of National Security, McGeorge Bundy organized the whitewash of the Kennedy assassination, and immediately switched the U.S. policy away from the Kennedy pullout and back toward war in Vietnam.

+++++++++++++++

****as I stated in my posted interview with William Weston

Edited May 11, 2014 by Steven Gaal

[Paul Trejo]

Main dread of the British Foreign Office // AMERICAN ISOLATIONISM //

solution communist Cuba // There were many opinions about sending arms to Castro but arms were sent by the British. If the British would threaten JFK not to help ****when British Guiana might go communist when the British were asking for Polaris technology,then why then is it a stretch to think that the BAY OF PIGS OPERATION WAS sabotaged on purpose for British interests ??

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ((( Skull & Bones = British )))

Richard M. Bissell, Jr. was a very important man to the denizens of Jupiter Island...When Harriman was the administrator of the Marshall Plan, Bissell was assistant administrator.

When Allen Dulles became CIA Director, Bissell was one of his three aides.

...The detailed management of the invasion of Cuba, and of the assassination planning, and the training of the squads for these jobs, was given into the hands of Richard M. Bissell, Jr.

This 1961 invasion failed. Fidel Castro survived the widely-discussed assassination plots against him. But the initiative succeeded in what was probably its core purpose: to organize a force of multi-use professional assassins. (AND CREATED LOCAL COMMUNIST THREAT TO USA FOREVER CHANGING FOREIGN POLICY AS AGGESSIVELY NON ISOLATIONALIST,GAAL)

...The Florida-trained killers stayed in business under the leadership of Ted Shackley. They were all around the assassination of President Kennedy in 1963.

...As President John Kennedy's Director of National Security, McGeorge Bundy organized the whitewash of the Kennedy assassination, and immediately switched the U.S. policy away from the Kennedy pullout and back toward war in Vietnam. +++++++++++++++ ****as I stated in my posted interview with William Weston

Actually, Steven, I find this perspective to be intriguing.

I prefer to remain closer to the ground-crew than to speculate exclusively on the highest-levels of command -- but it does add perspective to recognize that the histories can now reach to very high levels.

I take it by your global political analysis that you agree with Jim Phelps to a significant degree.

Do you also speculate (or do you care much) about the ground crew, Steven?

I ask because while the ground-crew need not understand the intentions of the high command, they do require their own, local motivation and philosophy.

For example, Larry Hancock (SWHT/2010) also finds the center of organization of the JFK murder to sit near JM/WAVE in Florida -- yet when he considers the need for a Dallas coordinator, he is willing to accept Jack Ruby as the point-man for Dallas coordination (ch. End Game).

I myself require a Dallas coordinator with more paramilitary experience -- e.g. Ex-General Edwin Walker, the radical and outspoken rightist political candidate who was the only US General to resign in the 20th century.

Walker continued to lead radical rightists even after he emerged from the Springfield insane asylum into which JFK and RFK had tossed him following the racial riots at Ole Miss on 9/30/1962. He coordinated and led the attack on Adlai Stevenson only four weeks before the JFK murder.

I find Edwin Walker to be competent and active in November 1963. Any opinion about the ground-crew, in Dallas, Steven?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited May 12, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Larry Hancock]

Paul, a small correction, in my scenario Ruby was necessary only for local intelligence on the city, on the DPD and who was who in Dallas. I would never place him as the

point man for the tactical operation itself. He was simply someone whose services could be bought through the correct cut outs and who would be handy

for minor local tasks that might come up, ...in other words, a gopher but a gopher who knew people in some interesting places such as DPD

As you know from SWHT, I discuss the fact that his role changed dramatically on the afternoon of Nov. 22, suggesting that he was actually one of the very few

controllable resources immediately available in Dallas after Oswald was taken into custody.

-- Larry

[Steven Gaal]

I take it by your global political analysis that you agree with Jim Phelps to a significant degree. // Paul Trejo

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

############################################################################

No Paul the Masons are a umbrella group that draw in the ambitious-obsequent for recruitment to elite plans.

The assasination started with Dulles a few moments after he learned he was fired. (thought LBJ may of thought of it even before JFKs nomination) Top of Plans and parts of JMWave did the deed. Because JFK touched the Central Banking system the ultra-Bankers were worried about JFK's future and those intelligent assets associated with Empire Trust assisted. If you read my interview with William Weston you will get a better idea on my thoughts. OF NOTE Besides the sabotaging of the BAY OF PIGS by Bundy/Bissell , I feel Lansky was in touch with elites in the transnationally protected narcotics traffis BEFORE WWII (to help KMT). THE WWII ONI-Lansky story is the cover for a deeper relationship. A few oddball low level people connected to LANSKY associates assisted in DP but had a super low level role (compartmentalized out of main loop) Like the trucking man behind the TSBD (parking lot) eating his lunch (while President goes in front (yeah thats a little rich)) saying nothing happened behind GK fence area or the trucking man (with the hat ,very short ) who was with the group of very short (shoot over) women near the freeway sign in the "Z" film. This man by the sign gave small tours in DP which was ,per him, approved of by the local government . He said to me the, " limosine didnt slow down or stop at all....". He also said the tattered worn hat he was now wearing was the same one he wore on 11/22. Now that one I believed.

===========

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6017 (SEE FIRST POST AND my work post # 50 beyond)

Edited May 12, 2014 by Steven Gaal

[Paul Trejo]

Paul, a small correction, in my scenario Ruby was necessary only for local intelligence on the city, on the DPD and who was who in Dallas. I would never place him as the point man for the tactical operation itself. He was simply someone whose services could be bought through the correct cut outs and who would be handy for minor local tasks that might come up, ...in other words, a gopher but a gopher who knew people in some interesting places such as DPD

As you know from SWHT, I discuss the fact that his role changed dramatically on the afternoon of Nov. 22, suggesting that he was actually one of the very few controllable resources immediately available in Dallas after Oswald was taken into custody.

-- Larry

OK, Larry, your correction is duly noted.

Yet wouldn't Dallas absolutely require a local point-man? And if not Ruby, then who?

Jim Garrison once said that the JFK conspiracy would never have gone forward without some assurance of cooperation by the Dallas Police Department (as well as the Press and Washington DC).

While we know that Jack Ruby had many nightclub-level connections with many Dallas policemen, does this satisfy our criteria for a coordinating influence over the Dallas Police Department?

Wouldn't a political influence -- say, from a widely respected and highly motivated Southern military officer -- be a better assurance of the coordination of the Dallas police?

While one might object that Ex-General Edwin Walker was finished after his sojourn into an insane asylum as remanded there by JFK and RFK, one might also counter that the martyrdom of such a sojourn would revitalize his standing among the detractors of JFK and RFK.

Further, we have plenty of evidence to show that Walker organized the attacks on Adlai Stevenson in Dallas only four weeks before the JFK murder there. Wasn't that a successful action for the right-wing? Isn't it a fact that Walker walked away from that media event scot-free?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited May 13, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Larry Hancock]

Paul, I certainly don't claim to be an expert on para-military operations, I'm an Air Force vet with a career field specialization in communications technology. On the other hand I've spent a fair amount of time study how the paramilitary professionals work....people you read about working with the most hand picked and effective Cuban exiles in the early 1960's. The military missions they ran into Cuba did not require point men on the ground, that's the sort of thing that gets people compromised - and was the major problem with infiltrations before the Bay of Pigs.

An para-military assassination team going to Dallas would desire some local intelligence, but as far as the attack itself, that is their skill and their business. They would not want a local "point man", and would do everything in the world not to meet or associate with any individual suspected of being under any form of FBI, DPD, ATF or other type of agency or law enforcement observation. Their job is focused, find ambush sites, prepare the attack, arrange for diversions as needed and carry out the attack.

Now, there may have been others traveling to Dallas for separate agenda's relating to framing Lee Oswald, that would be compartmentalized, might well require some money and a courier - as Martino described himself. But again, they want to limit their local contacts - and exposure - as much as possible, working though cut outs and people who would appear to be doing business as usual....given Jack Ruby's varied activities he would have made a fine conduit, spread a little money, arrange a few innocuous activities that nobody would understand - until after the assassination. But that would be as isolated from the attack team as possible.

And to answer your question, no, political connections inside DPD are the last thing you want since they show up in investigations. What you want is very simple, to access one or more officers or even detectives known to do a few marginally legal activities on the side...for money. If they have done a couple of things that would make them subject to blackmail, even better.

-- Larry

[Paul Trejo]

Paul, I certainly don't claim to be an expert on para-military operations, I'm an Air Force vet with a career field specialization in communications technology. On the other hand I've spent a fair amount of time study how the paramilitary professionals work....people you read about working with the most hand picked and effective Cuban exiles in the early 1960's. The military missions they ran into Cuba did not require point men on the ground, that's the sort of thing that gets people compromised - and was the major problem with infiltrations before the Bay of Pigs.

An para-military assassination team going to Dallas would desire some local intelligence, but as far as the attack itself, that is their skill and their business. They would not want a local "point man", and would do everything in the world not to meet or associate with any individual suspected of being under any form of FBI, DPD, ATF or other type of agency or law enforcement observation. Their job is focused, find ambush sites, prepare the attack, arrange for diversions as needed and carry out the attack.

Now, there may have been others traveling to Dallas for separate agenda's relating to framing Lee Oswald, that would be compartmentalized, might well require some money and a courier - as Martino described himself. But again, they want to limit their local contacts - and exposure - as much as possible, working though cut outs and people who would appear to be doing business as usual....given Jack Ruby's varied activities he would have made a fine conduit, spread a little money, arrange a few innocuous activities that nobody would understand - until after the assassination. But that would be as isolated from the attack team as possible.

And to answer your question, no, political connections inside DPD are the last thing you want since they show up in investigations. What you want is very simple, to access one or more officers or even detectives known to do a few marginally legal activities on the side...for money. If they have done a couple of things that would make them subject to blackmail, even better.

-- Larry

Larry, that's a very interesting and informative perspective, with much to recommend it.

To summarize:

(1) You suggest that the Bay of Pigs taught a key lesson, namely, that "men on the ground" comprises the "sort of thing that gets people compromised." Thus, minimalization was the byword.

(2) You suggest that a professional hit team going into Dallas would need "local intelligence" but not a "point man."

You narrow this down by adding that the attack itself (including ambush site, preparations, diversions) is their skill and business.

So, what would "local intelligence" need to do, more precisely? In the interest of defining the ground-crew in Dallas, I think my question is reasonable.

(2.1) You also emphasize that they would take extra care to avoid meeting anybody under FBI, DPD or ATF observation.

That would clearly exclude Ex-General Edwin Walker, who was being monitored by the FBI in Dallas.

However -- FBI agent James Hosty remarked that he wasn't tracking Lee Harvey Oswald very fervently because his larger assignment was to track the extreme right-wing in Dallas. Well -- that would place Edwin Walker high on his list.

James Hosty was also a regular Bridge partner with Robert Allen Surrey, whose office was actually inside the home of Edwin Walker.

We also know that Robert Allen Surrey, the well-known publisher of Walker, a JBS member and promoter of the Friends of Walker, was also a publisher for the American Nazi Party.

So - one could reasonably inquire whether James Hosty played the rogue in this case, and assured General Lansdale and others almost certainly involved at a higher level, of unofficial FBI cooperation in Dallas.

(3) The work of James Garrison and Joan Mellen has apparently disclosed a number of thug-like street-people who were involved in the JFK murder, including David Ferrie, Loran Hall, Gerry Patrick Hemming, Larry Howard, Fred Crisman, Thomas Edward Beckham, Jack S. Martin, Carlos Bringuier and Ed Butler.

These were mainly involved with what James Garrison called the "sheep-dipping" of Lee Harvey Oswald. Yet we also have information that some of these were in Dallas on 11/22/1963 (e.g. Loran Hall and Larry Howard).

Martino himself remarks on part of this aspect.

So -- limiting their exposure was evidently not a major priority in New Orleans. Look how many people Jim Garrison exposed! Would the bar be much higher in Dallas?

Granted, Jack Ruby's business-as-usual was a natural funnel for back-room money distribution -- but Ex-General Edwin Walker also had a business-as-usual operating in Dallas -- his so-called Friends of Walker.

(4) Finally, Larry, you say that DPD politics would show up in investigations. Normally that would be true -- but Dallas could be a major exception in the USA in 1963. William Turner describes the normal DPD officer in 1963 as radically right-wing. Gerry Patrick Hemming agreed when he said that elements in the DPD would "assassinate at a whisper."

As for blackmail as a guarantor of silence, you find Jack Ruby to be a fitting resource -- yet a US General in 1963 who has been gay for his entire life, used to the underground, and very familiar with blackmail at all levels -- would be equally fitting in that regard.

Finally -- Ex-General Edwin Walker still had connections -- only on the radical right -- within the Pentagon. That's something that Jack Ruby never had.

I think this remains an open question -- what exactly was the Dallas contact tasked to do -- in as much detail as possible?

Thanks for your insights into this.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Steven Gaal]

(4) Finally, Larry, you say that DPD politics would show up in investigations. Normally that would be true -- but Dallas could be a major exception in the USA in 1963. William Turner describes the normal DPD officer in 1963 as radically right-wing. Gerry Patrick Hemming agreed when he said that elements in the DPD would "assassinate at a whisper." // Paul Trejo

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The JBS which rails against elites was itself set up by elites.

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Carroll Quigley and colleagues of like sympathy with the Rhodes agenda have widely propagated the belief that the American branch of the Round Table organization is exclusively the liberal Eastern Establishment. However, The Belmont Brotherhood revealed that the Anglo-American Establishment, which represents the interests of the aforesaid corporations, also launched the ultra-conservative movement in the United States, the John Birch Society being a pioneer of the extreme right of this dialectical process.

Produced in 1977 by a group of former high-ranking JBS members, "The Belmont Brotherhood" refers to the National Council at Belmont, Massachusetts where JBS national headquarters were originally located. Various sources cited therein document that the early members of the John Birch Society were also members of the liberal Establishment they pretended to oppose, and represented in great measure the corporate interests of America, which are advanced by the oaths of loyalty to one another in a secret brotherhood .

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THE BELMONT BROTHERHOOD

see http://watch.pair.com/belmont.html

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Many in the DPD were useful idiots. Many have speculated as to what percentage of DPD were JBS ,most speculative estimates put 10 % at the low end figure.

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audio

British Prime Minister Douglas-Home Defends Trade with Cuba

Edited May 14, 2014 by Steven Gaal