Gerda Dunckel's Synchronized Couch And Darnell Clips

[Thomas Graves]

I can't say I'm really convinced of anything at this point. I do know that the only two eyewitnesses who testified to seeing Baker going up the steps were Shelley and Lovelady, and their testimonies amount to nothing more than fabrications on other points.

And Truly, whom I believe Sean Murphy originally spotted? Didn't he say Baker went through the front door?

--Tommy

PS I think the big guy seen turning in the middle is the elusive Jack Dougherty, whom Truly called "a great big burly fellow."

Robert,

Just to be clear, I think Truly is the guy circled in red, above. As you can see, he is not all that "near the base of the stairs," as you claim, but more in the middle of the street..

[...]

--Tommy

[...]

[stabilized, Slow Motion Darnell clip. Credit Gerda Dunckel]

Edited January 24, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

I love that word...."mis-remembered". It explains so many things.

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

Deleted. I bumped the wrong post.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

I can't say I'm really convinced of anything at this point. I do know that the only two eyewitnesses who testified to seeing Baker going up the steps were Shelley and Lovelady, and their testimonies amount to nothing more than fabrications on other points.

And Truly, whom I believe Sean Murphy originally spotted? Didn't he say Baker went through the front door?

--Tommy

PS I think the big guy seen turning in the middle might be the elusive Jack Dougherty, whom Truly called "a great big burly fellow."

Robert,

Just to be clear, I think Truly is the guy circled in red, above. As you can see, he is not all that "near the base of the stairs," as you claim, but more in the middle of the street..

[stabilized, Slow Motion Darnell clip. Credit Gerda Dunckel]

Edited and bumped.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

He was running across the Elm St. extension and turned to his right, once across.

Joe Molina and Buell Wesley Frazier were both asked, during their testimony to the WC, if they had seen a white helmeted motorcycle cop enter the TSBD, and neither recalled seeing one.

The only reference to Baker entering the TSBD by a witness on the steps is in the FBI report of an interview with Pauline Saunders. However, she was not called to testify before the WC and the FBI report, written in the 3rd person and not signed by Ms. Saunders, is a highly suspect piece of FBI "evidence".

The right hand side of the steps were more crowded than the side PM was on.

Robert,

I guess you've proved it -- Baker didn't run up the front steps. Instead, he ran real hard across the Elm Street Extension from his motorcycle and then turned sharply to the right and ran down the sidewalk for some very puzzling reason. But if he was running to the corner or to the side of the TSBD (and why would he do that?) from the very beginning, why didn't he take the shortest path from his motorcycle and run all the way down the street, instead?

Very puzzling, indeed.

--Tommy

edited and bumped

Edited July 1, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

It was established in post #40 by Sean Murphy that this is Truly.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20354&page=3

Yes, Bart.

I think I alluded to that in post # 21.

--Tommy

Edited July 1, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

If that is Truly, and Baker was off his motorcycle and running for the TSBD within seconds of the third shot, I would hazard a guess that Truly made his way to the TSBD even before the shooting began.

[Thomas Graves]

If that is Truly, and Baker was off his motorcycle and running for the TSBD within seconds of the third shot, I would hazard a guess that Truly made his way to the TSBD even before the shooting began.

Couch and Darnell didn't start filming until about 20 seconds after the fatal head shot.

--Tommy

Edited July 1, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

The limo must have been stopped for longer than we thought, if Darnell and Couch did not start filming until 20 seconds after the fatal head shot.

[Thomas Graves]

The limo must have been stopped for longer than we thought, if Darnell and Couch did not start filming until 20 seconds after the fatal head shot.

The Couch clip was five or six seconds long. This is the final part of it.

Just noticed: The two children on the right seem to be trying to get attention of their father, who spins around towards them.

Question: Is Karen Westbrook, Carol Reed, Karen Hicks, or Gloria Calvery (maiden name: Gloria Jean Little, born 1942) visible in this clip?

--Tommy

Edited July 4, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

The limo must have been stopped for longer than we thought, if Darnell and Couch did not start filming until 20 seconds after the fatal head shot.

The Couch clip was five or six seconds long. This is the final part of it.

Just noticed: The two children on the right seem to be trying to get attention of their father, who spins around towards them.

Question: Is Karen Westbrook, Carol Reed, Karan Hicks, or Gloria Calvery visible in this clip?

--Tommy

edited and bumped

Edited July 29, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Regarding the Darnell clip, I've made some observations about Baker, Lovelady, Shelley, and the diminutive, dark-suited, hat-wearing Roy Truly (whom I think is visible in it).

(Moved here from another thread)

We have film of Baker entering the building, so there is nothing suspicious about that.

Actually we don't, J. Raymond. All we have is film of him or another motorcycle officer running towards the steps.

--Tommy

Well if it is not Marion Baker shown in the Darnell film , then can you please name who it is?

J. Raymond,

Whoever it was (and I think it was Baker) he wasn't filmed actually running up the steps and entering the TSBD. Almost, but not quite. Unfortunately, Darnell started panning to the left at that point and "Baker" goes out of the frame.

Here's the pertinent, stabilized segment from the Darnell film:

BTW, isn't that diminutive, hat-and-dark-suit-wearing Roy Truly standing several feet in front of "Stetson Man"? He turns clockwise and watches "Baker" after the motorcycle policeman runs past him. No, I'm not talking about the big guy who turns and starts walking towards the TSBD to the right of "Stetson Man." The little, suit-and-hat-wearing guy I'm talking about is a little farther away, and to the left, directly in front of "Stetson Man." Isn't that little guy truly Roy Truly? Who is that big, lumbering, dumpy-looking guy on the right, anyway? He seems to be wearing a cap of some kind. Could that be the guy that Truly described as "a great big husky fellow," Jack Edwin Dougherty? If you look closely, you can see that these "Truly" and "Dougherty" figures seem to be communicating with each other, from a distance, at the beginning.

[Credit: Gerda Dunckel]

I think the motorcycle cop in this clip probably did run up the steps because he's still running fast when he gets to them, and the tall, dark-suited man at the base of the steps side-steps out of his way and motions him up the steps with his left hand.

Question: Could that be Lovelady rising up from a kneeling or sitting position on the far left side of the steps, or is it a woman wearing a light-colored head scarf (which looks like a face) walking slowly up them?

I personally think that Lovelady and Shelley were "captured" in the same film and Couch's a few seconds earlier while walking down the Elm Street Extension, so IMHO that couldn't be Lovelady rising up on the steps.

When James Darnell's or Malcolm Couch's films are blown up and shown in super slow motion, I recognize the heads, hairlines, physiques, profiles, and clothing of L & S there on the Elm Street Extension sidewalk. Yes, I know that their testimony regarding their actions and the timing and Calvary and Truly and Baker is very problematic, but I still think it's Lovelady and Shelley walking down the Elm Street Extension sidewalk towards the railway yard.

I am willing to be persuaded, photographically speaking, otherwise.

--Tommy

Does the woman in black (and wearing a black head scarf) pull the tall, dark-suited man at the left edge of the steps out of the (way by his right elbow) of the onrushing Baker (who runs behind them anyway)?

FWIW I think that that woman can be seen during the assassination in the Wiegman film, standing in the street with another woman in black in the same line as Stetson Man and Jearldean Reid, et. al.

--Tommy

A question for Robert Prudhomme -- Even though Baker is not seen running up the steps in Couch / Darnell, isn't it reasonable to assume that he did so?

I see no other reason for his running so fast across Elm Street Extension towards the TSBD front steps. I can't "see" him leaping up onto the sidewalk by the steps and then stopping to talk to someone or continuing to sprint down the sidewalk towards the corner, much less hanging a left at the corner and running back to the rear loading dock, or some such thing.

Yes, I realize that it's a concern of yours that the only people who claimed to see Baker run up the front steps are potential "bad guys" themselves who colluded with Baker.

I realize that that is a distinct possibility, but I also realize that in the chaos and confusion of the moment it's possible that several people who should have noticed Baker's running up the front steps simply didn't, perhaps because of the general chaos around them and the fact that their attention was riveted on what was going on down the street.

It looks to me as though Baker veered a bit so he could run up the least crowded part of the steps -- the area to the immediate left of the central hand railing.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

It's kinda hard to find, so I thought I'd start a thread on it. Darnell starts on the left, and Couch starts on the right. Great work by Gerda Dunckel:

http://www.abload.de/img/darnellcouchsync24fpsa6kkb.gif

--Tommy

Bumped because it's kinda hard to find, and this way you won't have to go to that evil evil "disinfo" website, jfkassassinationforum.com , to find it. Might get cooties there.

Enjoy.

--Tommy

Edited September 5, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

It's kinda hard to find, so I thought I'd start a thread on it. Darnell starts on the left, and Couch starts on the right. Great work by Gerda Dunckel:

http://www.abload.de/img/darnellcouchsync24fpsa6kkb.gif

--Tommy

Bumped because it's kinda hard to find, and this way you won't have to go to that evil evil "disinfo" website, jfkassassinationforum.com , to find it. Might get cooties there.

Enjoy.

--Tommy

Bumping this thread for Sandy Larsen.

Sandy, when exactly does Baker "abruptly change direction?" As he's passing behind Truly? (the short, suit-and-fedora wearing guy who turns to watch him run past)? Right after he's passed behind Truly? As he's passing behind "Jumbo" (no suit, no hat)?

Or does Baker change direction only as he's jumping onto the sidewalk from the street? See the Darnell gif in post # 42, this page.

--Tommy

Edited January 24, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Sandy Larsen]

It's kinda hard to find, so I thought I'd start a thread on it. Darnell starts on the left, and Couch starts on the right. Great work by Gerda Dunckel:

http://www.abload.de/img/darnellcouchsync24fpsa6kkb.gif

--Tommy

Bumped because it's kinda hard to find, and this way you won't have to go to that evil evil "disinfo" website, jfkassassinationforum.com , to find it. Might get cooties there.

Enjoy.

--Tommy

Bumping this thread for Sandy Larsen.

Sandy, when exactly does Baker "abruptly change direction?" As he's passing behind Truly? (the short, suit-and-fedora wearing guy who turns to watch him run past)? Right after he's passed behind Truly? As he's passing behind "Jumbo" (no suit, no hat)?

He changes direction right before he passes behind that giant of a man. We see only one step at the new direction before the clip ends. But as luck would have it, his step is right on the path the running girl took. So had he started out where the girl did, he would be headed for the right side of the doorway, just like the girl. But he didn't start out where the girl did, he was further left. In order for his foot to strike her path, he had to turn right. And you can see he isn't running the same direction the girl is. He's running close to perpendicular to her path.

Or does Baker change direction only as he's jumping onto the sidewalk from the street? See the Darnell gif in post # 42, this page.

He's not jumping onto the sidewalk. His shadow just barely touches the sidewalk at the end of the clip. It helps to single-step through the frames..

--Tommy